Trouble's brewing for Spy

jimi_t2

I for one personally despise this scenester style fashion that in vogue electro music has brought to the dance music scene in general.

It's a terribly Irish thing unfortunately. In England both scenes co-exist grand, esp. in London or the big cities. The nu-rave kids go off and jump up and down in TRASH, the dubstep bloods find their ketamine and dark basement and everyone else just goes to Fabric or somewhere and has a great night.

Then you have Dublin. We've about 3 venues that are remotely adequate on an international level so everyone and everything is lumped in together. TP has jazz, dubstep, classical, comedy, trad, house, disco from day to day, hour to hour across its week.

Clubs outside of Ireland tend to have the liberty to genre-ise themselves in the certainty that the crowd will come from somewhere. Irish clubs in contrast tend to genericise themselves as competition is fierce and late licencing is a hilarious farce.

Here in Ireland we're still trying to persuade people that electronic music doesn't equal ''music to drive glanzas by''. Not that our ****ing licencing laws, drink/drugs laws and rip the piss prices are doing us any favours. Its a wonder there's a scene at all.

Jesus lads, think about it... We could all be at jonny68s funky house night in Leeds by the end of the summer if things continue on in the same fashion...



My BIGGEST issue in recent times is going to see an act that has gone 'mainstream'. I empathise with all the people who jumped off the Deadmau5 bandwagon when he crept into the public consciousness only to be met with ridicule and that ''you only liked him because he was underground'' mentality.

I learnt my lesson when Justice were announced for the UCD student bar years back. This is before Waters of Nazareth had hit and the gig was about a quarter sold with a few days to go.
Then they win best video at the MTV VMAs. The posters around campus are stickered appropriately. Gig sells out in about 3 hours.
Get to gig, a load of pissed up idiots. Gig stopped twice because a mosh pit kept forming in the best american fratboy mentality. Eventually they finish early because of 'safety issues'.

Last gig I've been to in College.

jtsuited

good points there by jimi.

about the dublin scene -

I think the TP have it nailed tbh (in a good way). Pogo on a saturday night in the basement is all that is needed imo.

seannash

i dont have a problem with people dressing differently but its when people start calling people who dress differently scenesters its then there a scenester.

for all i can see from the pic to be called a scenester you need

1: a dinner jacket

2:drainpipe jeans

3: some sort of converse knock off runners


add in a silly hair cut and your onto a winner.

problem is everyone is wearing that look which make them no better dressed than the ben sherman straight jeaned pointy black shoed brigade

they think there being an individual but there not at all

jimi_t2

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Last gig I've been to in College.

Sorry actually it wasn't. Went to Felix da Housecat @ UCD about a year later. He ended up catering for the (inevitable) moshpit that formed and dropped ''Smells like Teen Spirit'' twice.

I **** you not.

jimi_t2

seannash wrote: »

i dont have a problem with people dressing differently but its when people start calling people who dress differently scenesters its then there a scenester

The way I saw it, people who dressed IRONICALLY were scenesters. People who made an effort beyond blue jeans/black shirt were called CLUBBERS. Problem is that the scenesters forgot that they were being ironic and started taking themselves seriously.

Thankfully, that whole generation is a genetic cul-de-sac. Years of skinny jeans and standing around in dark corners practising that contempuous scowl has cut off all circulation to their bollacks, rendering them infertile.

Thank ****.

SteveDon

I actually got dragged along to felix da housecat as i got a free ticket. Worst gig of my entire life, I hate UCD so much, thank christ im finished for ever on friday.

jimi_t2

SteveDon wrote: »

I actually got dragged along to felix da housecat as i got a free ticket. Worst gig of my entire life, I hate UCD so much, thank christ im finished for ever on friday.

Only reason I went as well. Quinlivan was brilliant about comps and that in fairness to him. Remind me, is it you that was signed on to 111?

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

Mate I don't see why you's are directing this at War and **** singly, 90% of nightclubs in the world are 'beauty pageants', go to any nightclub in Dublin and you'll see nearly everyone dressed up.

There's dressing appropriately, which I see as not going out in the same clothes ive been lounging around in all day. Ill throw on a pair of jeans or trousers as opposed to the combats im wearing. Then there's dressing like a gob****e. I dont seek to restrict the bloodflow to my testicles in order to loudly display that im somewhat 'different' (I use the word different as you claim hipsters to be different in an earlier post - something which beats me).

I fail to agree that 90% of the world's clubs are beauty pageants, fine - in your typical dublin niteclub youll see your fair share of those in fake tan etc, but I doubt these people have an air of difference about them (bull****). These people dont run down to certain clubs which claim to be offering 'something else'. You simply cannot compare the adherence to a counter-cultural fad with contemporary mainstream fashion simply because of what ive just mentioned and the thinking behind counter-culturalism in itself

electrogrimey wrote: »

Some dress up in black shoes from Jack Jones, and a stripey shirt, and some dress like they do in War/****. Same for the girls. It doesn't mean there's a despicable ethos towards music in War and ****. There's a despicable ethos towards music in most nightclubs.

Of course there is. Notice how, for arguements sake, this nightclub in question c.u.n.t - clearly states on the pod.ie website 'no heavy dance tho' (hip spelling of though included). This demonstrates clearly to all that the majority of the crowd would reel in horror at the sound of some proper dubstep / drum n bass or techno. For example, you wont hear the word techno ever mentioned with these hipsters, maybe tech-house at best, because Techno is such a dirty word for the unaccustomed, but we all know that, we all know people who call any electronic music techno etc....

Actually, I seen this myself when a DJ played Rusko's Cockney Thug in Doyles - the crowd stopped dancing, horrified at what they were hearing. The DJ had to quickly revert back to some ****e... Therefore its this type of crowd which is the most ignorant towards music given that they, unlike your average joe in Quinns, go to places with the primary draw being the music and the belief that they're the 'in' crowd. If they were there to get drunk and act the eejit like the crowd in your typical club, id say fair enough. But its the falseness of it all which makes my blood boil - and being a student here in Dublin for 3 years and having no decent place for music to go to during weeknights is why i've bothered writing this. If there was a place that played half-decent music without a bull**** element, I doubt id have ever went to these clubnights in the first place. However, we covered that in a seperate thread months back

electrogrimey wrote: »

If people cared about the music in 21s then they'd complain that Umbrella is played 3 times every night. War/**** don't market themselves as dance nights, house nights or whatever, they're just normal nights for a crowd that don't want to go to 21s.

:rolleyes:

Oh

This reverts to my previous paragraph - no your average 'crew' they dont care about the music, they just care about one thing - alcohol. But to me, there's far less wrong with this than caring above all about your appearance and adhering to a sub-culture, thus thinking that you're different. How so I fail to understand.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Mr.S wrote: »

If you don't like it, fair enough, but its a bit sad to abuse others over it.

I just dont like how Dublin's electronic music clubs are infested with pretentious folk thinking they're part of something special by copying the british indie fashion of two or three years ago.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Mr.S wrote: »

Do they really bother you that much though?

I walk down the street and see people dress differently/loudly etc but it hardly bothers me. Same with the club setting.

They don't exactly stop you having a good time?

Some people wear hemp only clothing - that doesnt bother me. Some people like the idea of dressing up in leathers and chains, that doesnt bother me. Its the attitude of these hipsters which does. The idea of people listening to a certain type of music because its underground and hanging out in particular places because they think they're different to everybody else does annoy me. Not to mention the 'uniform' involved

jimi_t2

Right, have it on good authority that the ''new'' management of Spy/Wax are not so much so. Apparently the holding company has gone into receivership and whoevers presiding over the venue is doing what he's being told.

joker77

Mr.S wrote: »

Seeing as this is about Spy/War, War would attract most of thoes "types" but its not full of them, lots of normies around on a Friday night! :pac:

normies?

jimi_t2

Mr.S wrote: »

Same way you would ignore a knacker in a club.

Knacker in a club? Fine. Scenester in a club? Fine.
A club full of either gets a serious bashing on this forum however. As would any club full of self-serving stereotypes.

Seeing as this is about Spy/War, War would attract most of thoes "types" but its not full of them, lots of normies around on a Friday night! :pac:

Yeah, bewildered ****s like me wondering why everyone else looks so moody.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Mr.S wrote: »

I can see where your coming from, and know the exact type your talking about. But can you not just ignore them? Its what most people do and it works?

Same way you would ignore a knacker in a club.

Seeing as this is about Spy/War, War would attract most of thoes "types" but its not full of them, lots of normies around on a Friday night! :pac:

As ive stated previously, I wouldnt know the slightest about these people if there was a multitude of places in Dublin where I could go to listen to the music I like, but places like those we're discussing are the closest thing music-wise. I'd love some filthy places in Dublin.. more places like the basement in the Twisted Pepper.

jimi_t2

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

I'd love some filthy places in Dublin.. more places like the basement in the Twisted Pepper.

I'd much prefer somewhere with a higher ceiling like the main room at Tripod. Was at carl craig and some twat beside me pulled a 20ft ream of that fabric off the ceiling, taking down about 5 rows of the crowd.

Actually, now that I remember it, Carl Craig had to stop his set about an hour before the end because of equipment failure due to condensation or overheating. I was up at the front and my heart went out to the poor man.

Also, in terms of friendlyness the crowd @ TP are brilliant across the board. This goes out to the barmen and the security who are the friendliest and best in Dublin. (My worst bouncer award for a music venue definitely goes to ALT. Ignorant cnuts)

g5fd6ow0hseima

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Also, in terms of friendlyness the crowd @ TP are brilliant across the board. This goes out to the barmen and the security who are the friendliest and best in Dublin.

Aye, they're not ones to grill you or give you dirties like most bouncers in this city. I never had any problem gettin in, but once my mate got thrown out because one of the bouncers thought he was smokin in the jacks... He reckons he wasnt, but I reckon it was because he was wearing a hat inside the place which drew the bouncers attention.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

The idea of people listening to a certain type of music because its underground and hanging out in particular places because they think they're different to everybody else does annoy me. Not to mention the 'uniform' involved

Jesus. Where did this uninformed hatred come from? They don't listed to that music because it's underground. They listen to it because they fucking like it. They don't go to particular clubs because those clubs make them think they're different, they go to those clubs because those clubs play the music they like. Christ.

As for the uniform, there's a uniform for very single trend in society. A lot of which are to do with music. People that like metal wear chains and stuff, people that like hip-hop wear baggy jeans etc, people that like indie wear skinny jeans. Is that so much of a problem?

Your argument has nothing to do with dance music. People that like indie dress that way. They go to club nights that play indie. Nights like Trashed, Antics, C.U.N.T, War etc. Some of these nights play indie and electro, like Trashed, some play indie and pop, like War and ****. They all still play indie. Where's the pretence in going to a night which plays the music you like?

electrogrimey

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Right, have it on good authority that the ''new'' management of Spy/Wax are not so much so. Apparently the holding company has gone into receivership and whoevers presiding over the venue is doing what he's being told.

Being told by whom? So the person presiding over the venue isn't trying to change it into anything?

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

Being told by whom? So the person presiding over the venue isn't trying to change it into anything?

They're in receivership (from what I've been told). This bascially means that they're bankrupt and that accountants and penny-pushers have been forced onto their board of management.

Clubs operate on drink.

Get people in, get them drinking, get people out.

Cloakrooms, Music, Lighting. These are all superfluous extras in the eyes of a bank as a Nightclub's books operate solely on the basis of their drinks receipts.

So yeah, depending on the knowledge of the person(s) assigned to Spy, they'll probably look at Coppers (most profitable club per sq/ft in Europe) and copy their business plan.

Now, how the **** a place as jammed as Spy got into so much debt is beyond me...

Táck

electrogrimey wrote: »

people that like indie wear skinny jeans. Is that so much of a problem?

yes

nilocsnikrep

It has been out there a while.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/nightclub-boss-could-now-lose-his-home-over-a-836412m-debt-2135629.html

jimi_t2

nilocsnikrep wrote: »

It has been out there a while.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/nightclub-boss-could-now-lose-his-home-over-a-836412m-debt-2135629.html

Different kettle of fish AFAIK.

1. You can't file for personal bankruptcy in the same way you can in the states.
2. Spy/WAX would be operating under a different name as a limited company to avoid repossession in this fashion

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

Jesus. Where did this uninformed hatred come from? They don't listed to that music because it's underground. They listen to it because they fucking like it. They don't go to particular clubs because those clubs make them think they're different, they go to those clubs because those clubs play the music they like. Christ.

There's websites dedicated to hipsters, the most well known being www.latfh.com , its quite popular. I recommend you have a gander...

electrogrimey wrote: »

As for the uniform, there's a uniform for very single trend in society. A lot of which are to do with music. People that like metal wear chains and stuff, people that like hip-hop wear baggy jeans etc, people that like indie wear skinny jeans. Is that so much of a problem?

No, scenesters do

electrogrimey wrote: »

Your argument has nothing to do with dance music. People that like indie dress that way. They go to club nights that play indie.

No. Scenesters do.

Diego Smartly

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

There's websites dedicated to hipsters, the most well known being www.latfh.com , its quite popular. I recommend you have a gander...

Holy Jaysus! I'm fallin around the place laughing at some this. GENIUS!

Two iPads, please

g5fd6ow0hseima

aye, some of it is side splittingly funny alright.... I will admit that they're not that bad in Dublin...... yet.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

There's websites dedicated to hipsters, the most well known being www.latfh.com , its quite popular. I recommend you have a gander...

No, scenesters do
No. Scenesters do.

So you've spent this whole time giving out that WAR/****'s punters go to clubs just because it's cool, and now you're contradicting yourself and agree with me, but putting it argumentatively by using a synonym...Right.

I've seen latfh by the way, those people are ridiculous. You can't pretend they're the type of people in War.

Jev/N

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Different kettle of fish AFAIK.

1. You can't file for personal bankruptcy in the same way you can in the states.
2. Spy/WAX would be operating under a different name as a limited company to avoid repossession in this fashion

1. You can but it's not that common here as it's more difficult and less popular
2. They're probably secured with personally guaranteed loans which will revert back to the guarantor. The banks will have appointed a receiver manager to deal with the asset until such time as they can satisfy the debt or more than likely, pay off the loan

/nerd hat off

Looks like he's fcuked!

electrogrimey

Mr.S wrote: »

...
also, back on topic, i've heard that the Organizers of War are trying to move it Andrews Lane Theatre.

Which is a shame, Spy is a nice, big club. ALT is more like a shed:D

Where'd you hear this? My sources say it's not true...

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

So you've spent this whole time giving out that WAR/****'s punters go to clubs just because it's cool, and now you're contradicting yourself and agree with me, but putting it argumentatively by using a synonym...Right.

Im not agreeing with you. Not everyone in these clubs are scenesters dressed in the uniform, its just a significant portion - the hipster crowd. Perhaps they are not exclusively hipster joints, but hipsters flock to them en masse, thus giving them a reputation. Regarding the VVIP awards in particular, which started off this topic, im sure you will agree that that event in particular is totally different - rather the epitomy of the whole scene collectively.

It's you who is making bold claims that 'people who like indie wear skinny jeans', whereas I replied to that by saying that it's just scenesters / hipsters (same thing) who listen to indie who wear skinny jeans. It seems that you fail to realise that there are many people out there who love indie music but dont feel the need to throw on the gear for it, hence how hipsters ruin it for the ordinary punter.

electrogrimey wrote: »

I've seen latfh by the way, those people are ridiculous. You can't pretend they're the type of people in War.

There's little difference to me, but you have to realise that Ireland has always been slower with fads, playing catch up - the current indie-hipster fad has been in existence in the UK and the states for a few years now.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

It's you who is making bold claims that 'people who like indie wear skinny jeans', whereas I replied to that by saying that it's just scenesters / hipsters (same thing) who listen to indie who wear skinny jeans. It seems that you fail to realise that there are many people out there who love indie music but dont feel the need to throw on the gear for it, hence how hipsters ruin it for the ordinary punter.

People who like indie do wear skinny jeans. I didn't say everyone, I said people. How are the hipsters ruining it for the 'ordinary' punter? I get it. You don't like hipsters. That's fine. Don't go to those nights then...But don't try and pretend that they're just the same nights as 21s etc with a different name. They're not. They play indie music, they're not pretending to be anything, like you keep trying to say they are.

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

There's little difference to me

You say that, yet you just said "I will admit that they're not that bad in Dublin", so now you're just making unnecessary arguments.