Trouble's brewing for Spy

electrogrimey

Just got a text from a friend who's running a night in Spy tonight, and his night and War (which is big night by any standard) are both cancelled in protest of Spy's new management's new policy of not paying any DJs or promoters. They're having a protest outside tonight.

I'd heard a lot about the management of Spy not being the best to work with, but that's taking the piss.

*I'll take out the name of the club if the mods want.

EuskalHerria

Don't think the name of the club should be taken down, its not libelous to state something that is true, if that is the case.

Best of luck to the lads protesting outside. Its not easy and usualy thankless but hopefully they deter people from going in tonight and send a strong message to the management.

g5fd6ow0hseima

I went to spy a few times back about two years ago. They refused to give out tap water and charged €3 for bottles of water. Im going to go and say whoever the manager is (if he's still there) is a hungry bollox.

brianc27

horrible kip of a place, the management dont give a fvck about the place, wax is falling apart, i was in there 1 night and the place was packed and they had 1 fvcking bar man on, i hope the place goes under

electrogrimey

brianc27 wrote: »

horrible kip of a place, the management dont give a fvck about the place, wax is falling apart, i was in there 1 night and the place was packed and they had 1 fvcking bar man on, i hope the place goes under

I don't hope it goes under, I just hope the people that are giving it the treatment it's getting leave. It could be great if there were some people who cared in charge. It's got a bit of a reputation as a decent place because of all the good DJs they've had in, but recently it's gotten terrible.

brianc27

just looking at pics from that south william street vvip party, scenster heaven, are these the types protesting out side right now?

electrogrimey

brianc27 wrote: »

just looking at pics from that south william street vvip party, scenster heaven, are these the types protesting out side right now?

That night was particularly bad, because only the hippest kids were invited. Tonight it's more like people like Philth, who dropped by after supporting Deadmau5, and other DJs and promoters.

g5fd6ow0hseima

brianc27 wrote: »

just looking at pics from that south william street vvip party, scenster heaven, are these the types protesting out side right now?

that vvip yoke made me cringe something horrid! You wonder are those people human

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

that vvip yoke made me cringe something horrid! You wonder are those people human

What makes you wonder that?

g5fd6ow0hseima

Can humans be that fake and plastic?

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Can humans be that fake and plastic?

Oh, so you know them quite well to know they have fake personalities yeah? There's a few tosser looking types, but a lot of them are lovely people, and a few are good friends of mine.

brianc27

state of them in fairness, i wont judge on anything but their style, but jesus tell your mates to sort it out

g5fd6ow0hseima

I just look upon people who put more effort into their looks and appearance as being superficial overall. Just look at that C.U.N.T. night in Crawdaddy. Have a gander through the photos and youll understand what im on about. I went to it one night and felt like I was at a fashion event. Im into music and generally hate fashion and everything that goes with it. But I guess every type of music will always have its fair amount of 'fad' followers, even moreso with the underground genres - its cool you see, and socially deviant

electrogrimey

brianc27 wrote: »

state of them in fairness, i wont judge on anything but their style, but jesus tell your mates to sort it out

It's fair enough to say my mates wouldn't be the ones with the stupidly flamboyant clothes, skinny jeans and a fringe would be about the most, but I still don't see any reason to insult or disrespect people who do dress like that.

C.U.N.T is run by a Fashion student in NCAD, who's also a pretty respected designer, and a photographer/blogger also in NCAD, so it's not really unusual for it to get that crowd. It's still one of the most popular nights in Dublin, and the two of them are also great DJs, even if they don't only play dance. They can mix pop and hip-hop better than 90% of club DJs in Dublin.

I don't see why it has to be a 'fad' to go to a popular night with good DJs and cheap drink.

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

They can mix pop and hip-hop better than 90% of club DJs in Dublin.

I wasnt impressed with the DJing in the slighest, although one of the DJs was playing good stuff before the crowd got big - which is always the case. And comparing them to 'club dj's' in dublin - that means nothing.

I dont think mixing blondie into the beastie boys is a mean feat to be honest. Although ive only been there twice, its not a place you'd go and be dying to ask the DJ what tunes he is playing, simply because its stuff that's been around a while.

Also, lady gaga was played there when I was there.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

I wasnt impressed with the DJing in the slighest, although one of the DJs was playing good stuff before the crowd got big - which is always the case. And comparing them to 'club dj's' in dublin - that means nothing.

I dont think mixing blondie into the beastie boys is a mean feat to be honest. Although ive only been there twice, its not a place you'd go and be dying to ask the DJ what tunes he is playing, simply because its stuff that's been around a while.

Also, lady gaga was played there when I was there.

How about packing 40 perfectly beatmatched tunes into an 1hr set? For someone who doesn't own decks I think he's doing pretty well.

I get it, you don't like pop music, or general mainstream music. They want a crowd, so they play crowd pleasing music. At least they play the better end of it, like Blondie and the Beastie Boys, not JLS and Justin Bieber like the rest of the clubs in Dublin.

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

I get it, you don't like pop music, or general mainstream music. They want a crowd, so they play crowd pleasing music. At least they play the better end of it, like Blondie and the Beastie Boys, not JLS and Justin Bieber like the rest of the clubs in Dublin.

I do like quite a bit of pop music from time to time and have no problem going to the likes of D2 or Diceys every now and then (i dont head out much anyways) but what I have a problem with is that they claim to be all 'indie' and put on this hip facade. As you've stated, they play crowd pleasing music, just like all the other clubs, but at least the other clubs dont claim to be alternative - in other words, there's no bull**** to them.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

I do like quite a bit of pop music from time to time and have no problem going to the likes of D2 or Diceys every now and then (i dont head out much anyways) but what I have a problem with is that they claim to be all 'indie' and put on this hip facade. As you've stated, they play crowd pleasing music, just like all the other clubs, but at least the other clubs dont claim to be alternative - in other words, there's no bull**** to them.

They market themselves as playing pop, indie and hip-hop. That's what they play. All the 'indie' kids go to it, as you have been giving out about. So, a night that plays indie which indie kids go to isn't allowed advertise itself as being indie?

I'm partly defending the night because I've played there, and look forward to playing again, partly because I enjoy going there, but I'm mainly defending it because this kind of intolerance to the often gay community of photographers, bloggers, DJs, designers etc really annoys me, because it's completely unfounded. If someone came on talking about 21s or whatever, I'd free admit that the DJs are usually terrible, which is a fact, but I wouldn't start giving out about the people that go, even though they aren't a type I'd like to associate with.

Anyway, back on topic. Apparently even the staff of Spy aren't getting paid, i.e. barstaff and cleaners etc. I'd love to hear the full story, not just twitter posts from promoters.

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'm mainly defending it because this kind of intolerance to the often gay community of photographers, bloggers, DJs, designers etc really annoys me, because it's completely unfounded.

What are you on about?

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

What are you on about?

brianc27 wrote: »

just looking at pics from that south william street vvip party, scenster heaven, are these the types protesting out side right now?

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

that vvip yoke made me cringe something horrid! You wonder are those people human

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Can humans be that fake and plastic?

brianc27 wrote: »

state of them in fairness, i wont judge on anything but their style, but jesus tell your mates to sort it out

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

I guess every type of music will always have its fair amount of 'fad' followers, even moreso with the underground genres - its cool you see, and socially deviant

No intolerance there no?

df1985

my 2 cents-they need air conditioning!

was at boys noize in spy a good while back and nearly passed out from the heat in there.

electrogrimey

df1985 wrote: »

my 2 cents-they need air conditioning!

was at boys noize in spy a good while back and nearly passed out from the heat in there.

Definitely. Was at that gig, and most of the other international DJ gigs, and they were all like that. I assume it's something to do with a listed building or something not allowing them putting in air conditioning. That's the major downside of it as a club.

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

No intolerance there no?

Intolerant? Its funny how you replied to my post about the bull**** aspect of these sort of clubnights by labelling me as being intolerant.

If I came on here saying something along the lines of 'if hitler came back to life they should be first on his list', then that would be intolerance of the highest order. However, by just pointing to how cool some people on this planet try to be, that doesnt make me intolerant. Im talking about the whole 'fad' aspect here, remember? Given that I stated that genres will always have their fad element, I once again fail to see how this is intolerant - Am I not pointing out reality? There's genuine music lovers and people who are there just because its cool.

And finally, why is it that you brought up bloggers and gay people and the like? What had that got to do with anything I was saying? Or are you just trying to change the subject.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Mr.S wrote: »

+1 the main room gets turned into a sauna.

Will be a shame if Spy/war stop being popular, its a good spot to be fair.

Is the soundsystem downstairs still piercingly loud? Your ears would be ringing for quite a while after going there.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Intolerant? Its funny how you replied to my post about the bull**** aspect of these sort of clubnights by labelling me as being intolerant.

If I came on here saying something along the lines of 'if hitler came back to life they should be first on his list', then that would be intolerance of the highest order. However, by just pointing to how cool some people on this planet try to be, that doesnt make me intolerant. Im talking about the whole 'fad' aspect here, remember? Given that I stated that genres will always have their fad element, I once again fail to see how this is intolerant - Am I not pointing out reality? There's genuine music lovers and people who are there just because its cool.

And finally, why is it that you brought up bloggers and gay people and the like? What had that got to do with anything I was saying? Or are you just trying to change the subject.

"You wonder if those people human". That's got nothing to do with fads, or being cool, that's just you not liking them for being different. I brought up bloggers and gay people because a lot of the people you're talking about are bloggers and gay people.

MikeHoncho

electrogrimey wrote: »

"You wonder if those people human". That's got nothing to do with fads, or being cool, that's just you not liking them for being different. I brought up bloggers and gay people because a lot of the people you're talking about are bloggers and gay people.

No you brought up gay people so that anyone who argued the toss with you looked like a homophobe. Get a grip mate. People dont like scenesters. Deal with it. When you put yourself out there you are liable to criticism. Why the **** does it matter if some guy is a respected designer, photogropher, raving homosexual or whatever. He can still look and act like a complete toss pot and be called up on it.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

but I'm mainly defending it because this kind of intolerance to the often gay community of photographers, bloggers, DJs, designers etc.

huh?

Am I not allowed to have problems with fashion designers and photographers now?

Scubadevils

So are these scenesters the lot that hang out around Central Bank?

Or the horrendous 80s look?

Scubadevils

This was an especially good image from the 80s that I tend to go for these days... I'm the guy in the middle pointing.

Scubadevils

I've heard of gays and photographers but what are bloggers?!

jtsuited

Scubadevils wrote: »

I've heard of gays and photographers but what are bloggers?!

guys who this kind of stuff on a regular basis i think......

Scubadevils

I see. Spy must be an interesting place so...

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

"You wonder if those people human". That's got nothing to do with fads, or being cool, that's just you not liking them for being different. I brought up bloggers and gay people because a lot of the people you're talking about are bloggers and gay people.

so by throwing on a pair of drainpipe jeans, converse runners and a checkered shirt unbuttoned over a ripped vest, I suddenly qualify as different? Ah, good ole counterculturalism :rolleyes:

jonnny68

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Can humans be that fake and plastic?

go to pubs in D4 and Blackrock and the likes and you'll see many of them!!

I'vee never been in this club an tbh ive heard nothing but bad reports about it.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

huh?

Am I not allowed to have problems with fashion designers and photographers now?

This is the only response that I respect to be honest. If you have a problem that's fine, but it's better to admit it than just give off snide remarks and say you don't have a problem.

Was up late studying for exams last night - half procrastinating on boards - hence the garbled unnecessary arguments. Don't really know what I was on about.

None of the ColourTV lads are on here are they? They deal with Spy a good bit, maybe they'd have some inside information. I've yet to talk to the guys from last night yet to find out what's going on.

jtsuited

i'll ask one of the colortv lads if you want. don't think they're on here.

tbh, i'm very confused about all this. i have a feeling i know what happened though.

look, if you're a promoter and the venue are not giving you the money that was agreed upon, the venue are in breach of contract. no need for protests or facebook campaigns etc.

however, if there was no legal agreement between the venue and the promoters, the promoters are gonna have to suck it up, and take it as a lesson that in this business, you need to have things on paper.

brianc27

why did being gay suddenly pop up in this argument, are all scensters gay or something

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

i'll ask one of the colortv lads if you want. don't think they're on here.

tbh, i'm very confused about all this. i have a feeling i know what happened though.

look, if you're a promoter and the venue are not giving you the money that was agreed upon, the venue are in breach of contract. no need for protests or facebook campaigns etc.

however, if there was no legal agreement between the venue and the promoters, the promoters are gonna have to suck it up, and take it as a lesson that in this business, you need to have things on paper.

I'm not sure of the details, hence why I'd like to find out. Some people were talking about staff as well on Twitter, but I don't know how much of that is true. If you've been running a night for years every week in a club, it's not really a lesson to not get paid for no reason all of a sudden. If it was just my mate that didn't get paid it'd be understandable, they've only done one or two so far, but War is more or less an institution in Spy, so it makes no sense to stop paying them.

electrogrimey

brianc27 wrote: »

why did being gay suddenly pop up in this argument

Mainly because I was sleep-deprived tbh.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

If you've been running a night for years every week in a club, it's not really a lesson to not get paid for no reason all of a sudden.

If you've nothing legally agreed it's your own fault tbh.

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'm partly defending the night because I've played there... I enjoy going there... but I'm mainly defending it because this kind of intolerance to the often gay community of photographers, bloggers...

I'd say about 10% of the crowd is gay and about the same being bi. War is not a gay night - its a night for mainly flamboyant exhibitionists with fake reading glasses and pronounced lisps to prounce around and take B&W or sepia-toned pictures. Fair enough, they're as entitled as anyone else to do so, but don't try and play it off as sexual intolerence.

As MikeHoncho said;

Why the **** does it matter if some guy is a respected designer, photogropher, raving homosexual or whatever. He can still look and act like a complete toss pot and be called up on it.

And I mean going on about Bloggers? Of course you're going to get attacked. I'm sure there's tonnes of talented poets going into Coppers of an evening, but you don't see me raving on about it.

I don't go there for the same reasons that I don't go to say... Lillie's Bordello or... Tomangoes or Barcode - because the musics going to be bland and thoughtless and the people unfriendly and maintaing pretensions of exclusivity.

The intolerence to the nights Spy has become synonymous with (WAR for example) has a lot to do with the apathy of the staff, ADMISSION AND DRINKS COSTS and complete lack of space, air conditioning or an appropriate soundsystem. Spy is not really a suitable venue for a nightclub - more a multi-storey late bar. Wax would be somewhat like Kennedy's if it wasn't attached to that.


As for C.U.N.T. - which you mentioned - this was a case of copying a good idea which was executed better in England, and turning it into the blandest form of a counter-culture student night. I really really doubt it's going to be around next year - its establishment and success had as much to do with timing as anything else.

If I sound bitter or unenthused about all of this, then fair enough. I just think that a music nightclub should be about... well, the music. I've a problem that the few city centre locations which are willling to entertain non-chart music are occupied by students under the misapprehension that the dancefloor is a catwalk. I mean for gods sake, you say yourself

How about packing 40 perfectly beatmatched tunes into an 1hr set? For someone who doesn't own decks I think he's doing pretty well.

This is the RESIDENT at C.U.N.T.? God help us all

Anyway, back on topic. Apparently even the staff of Spy aren't getting paid, i.e. barstaff and cleaners etc. I'd love to hear the full story, not just twitter posts from promoters.

Sadly, this is tip of iceberg stuff. There's a few huge promoters and clubs in serious (6 figure) issues as the moment, and one of the bigger ones has taken to ''renting'' its gear over the summer - I can think of at least 5 people on boards who know exactly what I'm on about.

jtsuited wrote: »

None of the ColourTV lads are on here are they? They deal with Spy a good bit, maybe they'd have some inside information.

They read it anyway. I think your man Louis might be a member. I'll be chatting to a coupe of the involved parties during the week anyway.

electrogrimey

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Sadly, this is tip of iceberg stuff. There's a few huge promoters and clubs in serious (6 figure) issues as the moment, and one of the bigger ones has taken to ''renting'' its gear over the summer - I can think of at least 5 people on boards who know exactly what I'm on about.

They read it anyway. I think your man Louis might be a member. I'll be chatting to a coupe of the involved parties during the week anyway.

TBH I agree with nearly all of that. As I said, up until what was it, 2/3 last night for a 9am exam this morning, was talking dribble.

I know Louis is on the Erol Alkan forum, so I thought he might be hanging around here too.

I've heard pretty ominous things about some of the huge promoters alright, would be terrible if one of the big 3 had to shut down in the coming years, would loose Ireland a lot of acts.

Who's in charge of Spy? and who are these 'new management' does anyone know? I always got the impression it was an independent thing, but I suppose being Dublin it probably isn't...

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

I've heard pretty ominous things about some of the huge promoters alright, would be terrible if one of the big 3 had to shut down in the coming years, would loose Ireland a lot of acts.

I'd claim the opposite to be honest. What it would mean is the likes of Zabiella playing a little less frequently, but a more proactive amount of people about rather than lumping everything into the bankholiday weekends. I'd like to see MCD venues and promoters relegated to pop music tbh, they're doing more damage than good.

What we need is someone like the promoters behind Pygmallion on a larger scale. If the venue was bigger it'd be insane. As it is, its got an underpowered sound system and its just too packed.

Then again, some people feel that the remedy is worse than the problem...

jtsuited

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Then again, some people feel that the remedy is worse than the problem...

zing!!!!

electrogrimey

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Then again, some people feel that the remedy is worse than the problem...

Ha! What's I find strange is that although there were hundreds of tweets all about the cancellation and the protest etc, he hasn't said a thing. I'm still baffled by it all. It's it's a run of the mill company doesn't have any money anymore I'll be disappointed. I'd like it to have a nice story to it.

Yeah, I was half thinking that about the big guns, but for non-dance events I'd definitely miss the big acts coming to town. There's already a lot of small people doing good things, Pygmalion like you said, Bodytonic, the guys in the Good Bits etc, so I'd definitely take them in a pinch, but I wouldn't like to see something like Electric Picnic have to shut down.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

so I'd definitely take them in a pinch, but I wouldn't like to see something like Electric Picnic have to shut down.

Eh???

I'd love to see all the big guns go under tbh. It's a market so there are plenty of people who will take their place.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

Eh???

I'd love to see all the big guns go under tbh. It's a market so there are plenty of people who will take their place.

Dance wise I'd love to see them go under, but if the big guys went under there'd be no more Radiohead etc gigs. Are there big enough European/UK companies to move in on Ireland? I'd fcuking love a change from MCD tbh.

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

...but I wouldn't like to see something like Electric Picnic have to shut down.

What, that once great, now quasi-folk music festival that has alienated its promoters, raised both capacity and price of tickets and is now (61% owned) run by the same crowd that run Oxegen (UK Promoter Festival Republic)?

When people think of the picnic they're generally thinking of the Body and Soul area. From what I gather, B&S management (as lovely a bunch of people as you could meet) are getting fairly sick of being short-thrifted and pushed around. Hence they now have their own festival and a diminished picnic prescence. Could be the straw that broke the camels back...

...and good ****ing riddance. I firmly believe that Neutronyx should stay in the woods in portlaoise and that LIFE and festivals with a completely different ethos like NPLD are about to have their day. 250 for 3 days? LIFE is half that price, is smaller and actually targets the electronic music audience rather than regarding them as a 'problem'.

electrogrimey

jimi_t2 wrote: »

What, that once great, now quasi-folk music festival that has alienated its promoters, raised both capacity and price of tickets and is now (61% owned) run by the same crowd that run Oxegen (UK Promoter Festival Republic)?

When people think of the picnic they're generally thinking of the Body and Soul area. From what I gather, B&S management (as lovely a bunch of people as you could meet) are getting fairly sick of being short-thrifted and pushed around. Hence they now have their own festival and a diminished picnic prescence. Could be the straw that broke the camels back...

...and good ****ing riddance. I firmly believe that Neutronyx should stay in the woods in portlaoise and that LIFE and festivals with a completely different ethos like NPLD are about to have their day. 250 for 3 days? LIFE is half that price, is smaller and actually targets the electronic music audience rather than regarding them as a 'problem'.

Well for one I don't want it to go under because then I'd be down one gig for the summer! I'm not talking about dance here. Of course I agree that dance shouldn't be run by big money-loving promoters, it should be done by people that love it, but for the general music scene in Ireland, big promotions companies are essential. I'd prefer if the ones we have were replaced by better foreign ones, but to get rid of them completely would stop people seeing a lot of their favourite artists.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

but for the general music scene in Ireland, big promotions companies are essential.

how?

seannash

oooh,grimey i think youve got it a bit wrong.


lets set it straight,theres absolutely no reason why any joe soap out there cant bookmost dj's for there gigs.


djs want to play out,they earn there living from it and the sort of acts that interest dance music followers(ie somewhat underground) will basically take a booking if the promoter has a suitable venue.


its not hard to book acts its just being able to cover your costs at the end of the day.