VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

CosmicJay

bmw535d wrote: »

holding a guitar and wearing a pink shirt long hair etc.do you even drive a car?/bought a car?

Oh I do indeed. Right now I have a Citroen c4 an 91 Golf g60(Edit: Full of rust and in bits). Going to look at a Passat Sport tomorrow!

I would say you drive a 535d but last time I checked your 17? Just like me. I would love to know how you could afford a 535d let alone insurance.

freighter

Personally i think ye are all wasting your time with these facebook pages for and against vrt. Its not like brian cowan or brian lenihan are going to be on facebook and even if they were they wouldnt give a rats arse.....

-Chris-

bmw535d wrote: »

holding a guitar and wearing a pink shirt long hair etc.do you even drive a car?/bought a car?

Please don't get personal/stalkerish. It won't be tolerated.

JHMEG

freighter wrote: »

Its not like brian cowan or brian lenihan are going to be on facebook and even if they were they wouldnt give a rats arse.....

Facebook is very popular in the Civil Service, so much so that some depts have banned using it for an hour or so during the working day. So you never know...

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

some depts have banned using it for an hour or so during the working day. ...

From 1 to 2?:)

Technique

There's a lot of Donegal bashing in some of these threads. Most people I know up here support the collection of VRT from the people who are avoiding it.

As far as I can see, it's not being done on a point of principle. It's being done by people who would rather drive a Northern 320d than a Soithern Astra for the same money.

opinion guy

Any One wrote: »

Well the people who paid their VRT won't have to worry about Customs seizing their cars will they?

And seeing as the Irish Government brought in the car scrappage scheme last year i'd go so far as to say that there were more cars sold in the Republic then there were than in Northern Ireland.

So therefore not all cars attracted VRT only the ones imported from Northern Ireland and judging the way things are at the minute those people who imported a car don't want to pay VRT as they want to flaunt the law.

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

Vertakill

opinion guy wrote: »

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

I've been trying to explain that too and how that already skews the OMSP before you've even attempted to VRT your car. And how, if VRT was abolished or the rates decreased, dealers would be able to lower their prices rather than passing on the VRT to the customers, which would in turn make them more competitive.
There'd be no poverty spec bs as well like we currently have and people would be less inclined to spend their weekend traveling to get a car in the North or in GB as they could get one at home for a similar price.

If you read through the OP's comments, he's only mentioning N.Ireland in this which isn't exactly the full story. This is not just about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland.

That's not at all suprising though, considering the other VRT related facebook page is ran by an equally confused guy.



- Anyways - this debate is gonna go round and round and I've nothing left in the tank.

Any One

bmw535d wrote: »

yea i see everyone who has to much money has joined your facebook page,



FAIL

You must be one of people then who wants to buy a car (If you haven't aready done so) in the North and drive in the the republic without paying VRT.

The woman who bought a Lexus Jeep but never paid the VRT has plenty of money but yet didn't have enough money to pay the VRT

Any One

opinion guy wrote: »

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

Yes and people don't have a problem paying it. They only have a problem paying it when they live in Northern Ireland and have addresses out here so they try and get away with not paying the VRT.

Also anybody living in the Republic who buys a car in the North has to pay VRT and if they pay it they won't get their cars seized by the Customs for non paymeant of VRT.

99% of the people complaining about paying VRT are from Northern Ireland but live in the South and also have second homes & holiday homes in the South.

Wait until next weekend on the June bank holiday and all you will see is yellow number plates crossing the border.

There always complaing about the Laws in the South. If they abide by the rules of the Law when they live in the South then they would have no bother but most of them just want to drive their cars out here without paying VRT cause they have addresses in the North but live in the South.

Any One

Vertakill wrote: »

I've been trying to explain that too and how that already skews the OMSP before you've even attempted to VRT your car. And how, if VRT was abolished or the rates decreased, dealers would be able to lower their prices rather than passing on the VRT to the customers, which would in turn make them more competitive.
There'd be no poverty spec bs as well like we currently have and people would be less inclined to spend their weekend traveling to get a car in the North or in GB as they could get one at home for a similar price.

If you read through the OP's comments, he's only mentioning N.Ireland in this which isn't exactly the full story. This is not just about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland.

That's not at all suprising though, considering the other VRT related facebook page is ran by an equally confused guy.



- Anyways - this debate is gonna go round and round and I've nothing left in the tank.

But it seems to be only about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland

I'm not confused.

Your still missing the point even if you buy a car in the North and pay the VRT you are still saving money but its the people who live in Northern Ireland and have addresses out here that have a problem with paying VRT because they want to drive their cars out here without paying VRT cause they have addresses in the North but live in the South.

opinion guy

Its really obvious that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Drummerboy08

Vertakill wrote: »

The people who are FOR the VRT are people that are not enthusiastic about their cars and don't have the time, patience or the knowledge to go and get themselves a bargain in the UK and are quite happy with paying over the odds for a lower standard of car in Ireland.

Thats a big brush full of tar you've got yourself there.

Ali Babba

Victor wrote: »

Ali Babba, you're just rambling now. If people want services, they have to be paid for somehow. In the time the tribunals and Politicians have cost maybe €400m, Health and Welfare have cost perhaps €200 billion.

That's just it though Victor what we're getting for what we're paying for just isn't good value for money and so much of it is wasted, as for welfare, me being self-employed and having payed prsi and taxes, if I were to look for assistance from welfare in the morning if my business failed, i'd get nothing. So just to recap, I may be rambling but at least I have a valid point too.

-Corkie-

I cannot believe their is so many vrt threads here.

-Chris-

Fixed - threads merged, title edited.

opinion guy

SARASON wrote: »

I cannot believe their is so many vrt threads here.

Why not ? It affects everybody.

What I can't believe is that there are people actually supporting it. Its like the proverbial Turkey voting for Christmas

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

Why not ? It affects everybody.

What I can't believe is that there are people actually supporting it. Its like the proverbial Turkey voting for Christmas

That can be turned around very easily, somethign else has to go up for VRT to go down or be gotten rid of so your supporting other taxes going up, whats the difference?

opinion guy

Stekelly wrote: »

That can be turned around very easily, somethign else has to go up for VRT to go down or be gotten rid of so your supporting other taxes going up, whats the difference?

Or how about this.
Overall cost of cars goes down, more cars get sold, less people go abroad to buy, tax take per car goes down but overall tax take goes up. Motor industry does better, which is good for economy.


Personally I think they should scrap VRT, differentally adjust VAT on vehicles in accordance with vehicle emmissions bands and make up any shortfall in higher fuel taxes.
Say a base rate VAT for emissions band A of 25%, 27% for B, 30% for C, 35% for D, 40% for E and up.

Simples

opinion guy

.

-Chris-

opinion guy wrote: »

Overall cost value of cars goes down

FYP

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

Or how about this.
Overall cost of cars goes down, more cars get sold, less people go abroad to buy, tax take per car goes down but overall tax take goes up. Motor industry does better, which is good for economy.

Is anyone really not driving a car because of VRT? There plenty of cheap cars.

People upgrading cars will still have the same cost to change anyway as the trade in will be worth less and the new car less too.

It wouldnt have the effect on sales that anti vrt people seem to think.

opinion guy

Stekelly wrote: »

Is anyone really not driving a car because of VRT? There plenty of cheap cars.

People upgrading cars will still have the same cost to change anyway as the trade in will be worth less and the new car less too.

It wouldnt have the effect on sales that anti vrt people seem to think.

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

Cuddlesworth

opinion guy wrote: »

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

The cost to change would remain the same. The current value of their car would plummet. Any change to VRT would affect only affect people whose cars had little or no residual value or people who don't have a car. And the tax cost of non car owners would rise significantly.

opinion guy wrote: »

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

As I said before it would require a significant rise in the overall tax base of everybody in this country. It would affect the trading assets of a number of businesses in this country, leasing fleets, car sales lots would all face the possibility of financial ruin due to the drop.

opinion guy wrote: »

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

Currency fluctuations in extreme economic conditions made imports cheaper. That isn't a reliable factor in future predications of import value

opinion guy wrote: »

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Creating simple answers to difficult economic situations doesn't work.

opinion guy wrote: »

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

And put plenty of people out of jobs.


I personnel can't stand VRT. For other reasons. If this downturn has taught us anything its that a heavy tax system based on luxury goods is ineffective during times when the money is most needed. It needs to be changed, but over a very long period of time. Fixed tax rates need to be introduced in its place.

But I can't stand people who live here and don't pay it. They are dodging huge amounts of money, not just the VRT but the motor tax and the NCT. Its theft and it needs to be stopped through enforcement.

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

AFAIK we have a fairly high new car buying rate per head already compared to most of europe.

slimjimmc

opinion guy wrote: »

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

Don't injury claims, driver profile and vehicle specs have a much greater influence on insurance costs than vehicle value. Any time I went looking for quotes the value of the car made feck all difference to the price.

coolbeans

Why are people so concerned about bloody VRT when the country is quite literally on the verge of economic collapse? How about a Facebook campaign for a coherent jobs strategy, equitable taxation and political accountability. Christ, get some perspective people. VRT, it's a tax that we pay just like other countries. It's not illegal and if it were abolished it would have to be made up somewhere else. Better still how about a proper protest based in the real world and not on FB, the home of that inexplicably popular ****ing farm and mafia wars. Seriously people, I despair.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, people are still buying cars.
When the government decides to keep VRT that is the only thing they look at, they don't care about a dozen people protesting, there's always someone protesting, to politicians that's just background noise.
There's only two ways out of this:
Build up a concerted movement of voters threatening to vote for some silly party that is sufficient to unseat the government (fat chance in Ireland, weclome to an endless future of FF)
or
STOP BUYING CARS YOU GIMBOIDS!
If everyone would drive around in 10-15 year old bangers VRT would be gone in 6 months.
But people are buying like mad, that means that most don't seem to mind and are happy to give their money over to the gov.
Also, VRT is the only tax where you decide how much you want to spend.
Import a Merc or Beemer, get fleeced, import some Jap banger and get off lightly.
So all in all people seem happy to be fleeced.

JHMEG

The VRT threads were all discussing different aspects of VRT

On any given day we could have 6 or 8 BMW threads, and annoying as they might be there's no sense in merging them...

Guy:Incognito

slimjimmc wrote: »

Don't injury claims, driver profile and vehicle specs have a much greater influence on insurance costs than vehicle value. Any time I went looking for quotes the value of the car made feck all difference to the price.

I'd be willing to bet a couple of grand either way on a brand new car will make zero difference on an insurance quote.


EDIT just checked and there was no difference between a car costing €15,000 and one costing €19,000.