Why is being fat/obese socially acceptable?

Bottle_of_Smoke

First off I'd just like to oppose any ideas toward a "fat tax"
I eat approx 3000 calories a day but I train in the gym so I'm relatively slim and within normal BMI. Fat tax would be incredibly unfair on anyone who plays sport.

I think we'd be better off somehow incentivising those who keep in good shape. Food's a natural requirement so can't blanket tax it

Being overweight is primarily down to laziness. It can be hard but its usually procrastination that stops people dieting or excersising. Anyone can reach a healthy weight with some effort.

The reason its "socially acceptable"(i wouldn't use that term tbh) is because its a position no one wants to be in and most people pity the overweight.

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I don't think so, because while smoking and drinking are personal choices, a person's weight is a personal issue.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you serious? Are you actually suggesting its easier to stop smoking than reduce your bodyweight? Or stop drinking in an alcohol culture than reduce your bodyweight? I think the wording "personal choice" is nothing but semantics here.

It's taboo to tell people they need to lose weight - or gain weight - because a person's body and weight are quite private matters, to most.
I'd imagine that being told "you're fat and need to lose weight" is not only insensitive and cruel, it's also humilating.

Agree here.

If a person is overweight, it should be up to them to decided to lose weight, rather than up to other people. If they're happy and healthy, then what does it matter?

Not so straightforward as that. Being overweight has a lot of health risks attached that we all end up paying for in different ways.

And if it's the case that they're not healthy, what does it matter anyway? They're not harming anyone but themselves and anyone with genuine concern would be more sensitive than to call them "fat" and tell them to lose weight. It's not always that simple.

It matters a lot. I'll give you one example. I know a guy who got a liver transplant due to his diebetes and fatty liver. Someone else may have died because he got that liver. I don't see why an overweight person is anymore entitled to that liver than an alcoholic. Its a hell of a lot easier for them to lose weight than an alcoholic to quit the booze.

Being large does not always equate to being inactive or having a poor diet.
There are plenty of reasons for a person to be overweight. And by the same token, a person who is very slender is not always so because they eat well and spend their lives on treadmills. A lot of it comes down to genetics and what sort of health a person is in (mental health issues, suffering from diseases and illnesses etc)

Sorry but I have to call bullsh*t. If you have a genetic reason for storing more fat than the average person it is not some sort of excuse for being fat. It simply means you need to put in more effort than the average person if you don't want to be unhealthy/unattractive or qualify for free healthcare imo. I'm sure there are some diabilites that genuinely stop people from losing fat but I wouldn't include the vast majority of mental health issues.

sheesh

so everyone that agrees with the op on this thread has never drunk to excess smoked and is at there ideal weight?

dry shi*es

Wibbs

Ayankabroad wrote: »

About a year ago I saw a pricture of myself from a christmas party and could not believe my eyes. I was standing there weighing 18 st and no idea how I had gotten to that stage. I am know about 13 1/2 stone and feel much better about myself and carry a much better opinion of myself now that I am a bit more disciplined about the way I live my life.

:eek: Bloody hell fair play. Kudos.

kowloon wrote: »

Food is highly addictive, we aren't designed for conditions where food is plentiful. It takes control that some people don't have.

Actually its amazing skinny people are still around given the selection for people to store fat.

gustavo

I'm overweight and accept that it's 100% my problem I just need more will power!

kowloon

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It matters a lot. I'll give you one example. I know a guy who got a liver transplant due to his diabetes and fatty liver. Someone else may have died because he got that liver. I don't see why an overweight person is anymore entitled to that liver than an alcoholic. Its a hell of a lot easier for them to lose weight than an alcoholic to quit the booze.

I'm diabetic, should I be less entitled to a transplant because of that?

Spiritoftheseventies

Obesity has its health risks. People are being constantly told to eat correctly. Whether its socially acceptable or not is another issue.

Bottle_of_Smoke

kowloon wrote: »

I'm diabetic, should I be less entitled to a transplant because of that?

I only mentioned diebetic because the guy had type 2 caused by the fact he was obese.
If you're overweight and your need for the organ is caused by being overweight I'd say yes, you're not entitled, or at least that anyone who's not overweight should be placed above you on the waiting list.

B00MSTICK

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

I only mentioned diebetic because the guy had type 2 caused by the fact he was obese.
If you're overweight and your need for the organ is caused by being overweight I'd say yes, you're not entitled, or at least that anyone who's not overweight should be placed above you on the waiting list.

I'd agree with this. Although it would be hard to say if being overweight was a direct cause.

I have type 1, if I stopped doing my insulin altogether and needed a transplant I don't think it would be fair If I was put ahead of someone who looked after themselves.

ScumLord

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you serious? Are you actually suggesting its easier to stop smoking than reduce your bodyweight? Or stop drinking in an alcohol culture than reduce your bodyweight?

Of course it is, all an alcoholic has to do is stop drinking. They'll get horrible withdrawals and there's a huge mental obstacle but he doesn't need to exercise and continue to drink, just drink less and only drink alcohol that tastes horrible.

kowloon

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I only mentioned diebetic because the guy had type 2 caused by the fact he was obese.
If you're overweight and your need for the organ is caused by being overweight I'd say yes, you're not entitled, or at least that anyone who's not overweight should be placed above you on the waiting list.

I'll admit, I was being divisive, people generally don't understand diabetes. I don't know how many people have told me I'm diabetic because I eat too much sugar. Gets on my nerves.

T1 also, weigh just under 8 stone.

--LOS--

Rodar08 wrote: »

It has been proven that obese/overweight people are that way for reasons other than being greedy fat pigs!! Depression, loneliness, addiction, physical disability etc. etc. So to bandy around an idea for this is only touching on a far greater and bigger scale problem. There are a lot of things to consider before you can rid the world of fatties. Have a nice day.

You could say the same for people who abuse alcohol or drugs, still I can't see people being any more sympathetic to a junkie than a fat person.

Bonito wrote: »

I don't look down upon anyone based on their lifestyle choices. If someone chooses to do drugs, no matter how soft or hard those drugs are, I simply don't associate myself with them because I don't like drugs. What they choose to put in to their bodies is their choice. Should they choose to ask for help in the future good on them. If not then fair enough, I'm not going to look down at them. It doesn't mean I am better than someone who uses drugs it just means that I'm not on the level with them and they wouldn't be my idea of good company.

I think this person said it best

And I'll admit I'm probably quite guilty of being unaccepting of fat people, but that's because I view them the way I would view religious people, it's just something I don't get personally and therefore naturally just don't see eye to eye with them and distance myself from them.

Elessar wrote: »

I know how to have the craic. What on earth made you think I didn't? More words in my mouth. Oh, and I can guarantee any "fattie" friends you might have are not un-judgemental to people they may see in daily life. What about that guy who sits beside them in work who never uses deodorant and stinks to high heaven? Is it small minded to think they disrespecting themselves?

I don't know that many fat people (that sounds weird ) but I have come across quite a few who are surprisingly more defamatory of people's physical aspects which they cannot help, that is baffling to me.

coffee_cake

ScumLord wrote: »

and only drink alcohol that tastes horrible.

All of it then?

Bottle_of_Smoke

ScumLord wrote: »

Of course it is, all an alcoholic has to do is stop drinking. They'll get horrible withdrawals and there's a huge mental obstacle but he doesn't need to exercise and continue to drink, just drink less and only drink alcohol that tastes horrible.

Right, not sure what angle you're coming at but I know if I was given the choice of -

You're an alcoholic who has to stop drinking.

You're 14 stone and need to get down to 11

I'd certainly go with the latter.

--LOS--

ScumLord wrote: »

Of course it is, all an alcoholic has to do is stop drinking. They'll get horrible withdrawals and there's a huge mental obstacle but he doesn't need to exercise and continue to drink, just drink less and only drink alcohol that tastes horrible.

simples :rolleyes:

tc2010

Theta wrote: »

Some fat people will play the victim card and say its the foods fault for being so addictive.

nothing worse than a lazy fat greasy disgusting pig of a human blaming everything else than there own laziness.

if your fat its your own bloody fault. get out and do some exercise fatty

Cheap Thrills!

I don't care what grown adults do with their bodies. If they want to overeat/take drugs/smoke/drink etc that is no-one's business but their own.

When you are an adult the choices you make with your own body are your own personal responsibility. End of.

HOWEVER, things change when kids are involved. Parents whose kids are fat are irresponsible unless the kid has something like prader willi syndrome then there is no excuse.

If people can't keep their sh!t together enough to feed their kids properly and stop them looking like Billy and Bessie Bunter then they should not have kids, because being able to feed them responsibly is a minimum requirement.

ScumLord

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Right, not sure what angle you're coming at but I know if I was given the choice of -

You're an alcoholic who has to stop drinking.

You're 14 stone and need to get down to 11

I'd certainly go with the latter.

Well that's because you've already stated your a fit person, it's easy for you to do that. You can be off the grog within a month if your over weight by 3 stone or more it'll take allot longer than a month.

ocokev

I think we should listen to our politicians and especially our Minister Of Health as to what their opinions are on this subject.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/12/02/story106865.asp

techdiver

Mushy wrote: »

Can say the same on the opposite end of the scale. Why is being super thin socially acceptable? Thtas just as bad being obese. Just cos dumb bints who follow what others say to make money out of them tell them to be like that, doesn't mean it should be replicated.

If you care to read my other replies, I have also stated that I agree that all forms of extreme weight should be tackled not just obesity.

SV

depends what you define as overweight.

if it's going by the BMI then I have to lol at you.
if it's going simply by BF content then that's fair enough.

prinz

filthymcnasty wrote: »

Using B'OD as an example of an overweight person is ludicrous....

:rolleyes: Do people really need everything explained in basics.. I wasn't using BOD as an example of a technically obese person ( as opposed to overweight like say Paul O'Connell ) just showing how ridiculous it is to start throwing rather arbitrary measurements around to determine who is what.

What do we use? Waist size? Strict weight? Body Fat? Do we ask people we meet to give them a physical, maybe they are a few pounds overweight, but could be in tip-top condition healthwise apart from that, a person in the ideal weight range could have sky high cholesterol and blood pressure.

pikachucheeks

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you serious? Are you actually suggesting its easier to stop smoking than reduce your bodyweight? Or stop drinking in an alcohol culture than reduce your bodyweight? I think the wording "personal choice" is nothing but semantics here.

No, I was suggesting that drinking and smoking are personal choices and that a person's weight was more a personal issue. I didn't mention anything about it being easier to give up smoking or stop drinking than reducing body weight

It's a person's choice, whether they want to smoke or drink (unless they've reached the point of addiction. In that case, there's always help, should they want or decide to stop) ... Whereas very few people actually opt to be overweight / considered overweight or obese, by other people. It can be the result of a variety of factors and to many, being overweight is a very sensitive issue.

IMO, telling someone they're fat and need to lose weight is getting a lot more personal than telling someone they need to put out their cigarette and stop smoking.

cynder

Arnold schwarzenegger is over weight,

Im over weight have been since i had my 3rd baby and went on the depo provera. im joining bootcamp next week to help shed it. BMI is 27.

I dont go on people weight or looks,
hugo from lost
heather from eastenders

who could hate them..... i just wanna give them a great big hug

i have a 10 year old who always asks is she fat. she 4foot 9 inches and 6 and a half stone, she takes a size 6 in adult clothes and a 5 1/2 shoe. She is bigger than most girls in her class ( she is built like a 12 year old in height and weight) she has a very healthy diet as she is diabetic and can run faster than anyone else in her class including the boys.

I hate the fact that she comes home asking if shes fat, i blame it on the media. who the hell wants to look like victoria beckham.

beans

F*ckin youtube tags?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRbJrAkf7E

If you're the kind of person who gorges themselves with scarce thought for the consequences, then quite aside from being fat you're likely to be 'broken' psychologically, and that's a whole other issue. Put the fork down and think about what you're doing.

Many reasons why people are the weight they are. My BMI is 22, and I gorge myself frequently. My metabolism must be pretty high, cos I burn lots of calories just sitting around eating and browsing boards. Another person might be overweight despite eating healthily and exercising. It's being an assh*le that's socially unacceptable, not how large or how slight you are.

And we all know this, jesus jumping christ why does this sh!t come back up again and again?

Bonito

Theta wrote: »

It is left to myself I said I say it to myself all the time when I see people on the street.

That's fine. I never said you say it to the persons face. I was condemning the fact that you think you're better than someone and are allowed to look down at them solely because of their weight/physical appearance. Whatever way people choose to live their lives is none of your business and just because they don't fit in to your idea of a perfect society does not mean you are any better than them.

You seem to be putting words in peoples mouths as a few of the other people have said.

Elessar wrote: »

Read my post again and stop trying to squirm your way out. You are putting words in my mouth to support your argument.

Seriously? The two of you? I'm not a ventriloquist. I don't have my hand up your arse making you type, do I? Maybe if you both supported your arguments better and made them clearly I wouldn't have to guess what you're both trying to say.

Elessar wrote: »

You can put whatever spin on it you want, but the basic fact of the matter is - if you take in more than you burn you will gain weight (and be weight I mean fat cells).

Thanks for the biology lesson but I think we all know how someone gains weight and how someone loses weight. We're talking about why do people look down upon those in our society who are obese.

It stands to reason that they are inactive and eating poorly. And they are overweight because they continue to do it and do not care about their health or appearance. In effect, they are lazy.

It takes some people time to build up enough confidence and will power to kick bad eating habits to the curb. Some people are actually happy being overweight, you know. Physical appearance does not define happiness. If they're happy with who they are and how they look do you think they're going to give a flying fúck what you, or anyone else on the street, thinks of them when they see them?

I was slightly overweight once. Not fat, but chubby. I didn't actually realise it until family and friends started mentioning it. At first I didn't care, but one day I looked at my beer belly, and being 23 at the time, it suddenly shocked me. I looked in the mirror and saw I was getting fat. I needed to change, for my own health and well-being, as well as my appearance.

There you are. In your own time you sorted it out. I'm sure nobody snubbed their nose at you just because you'd gained a little bit of weight. They mentioned it to you and you brought your attention to it and you went about losing it. I doubt people started calling you a fat and lazy so and so. You might have called yourself it but I'm pretty sure nobody looked down at you because you'd let yourself go a bit. It's none of their god dam business if you happened to gain a bit of weight.

Ayankabroad wrote: »

Just thought I will throw my 2 cents into the fray. I have historically been someone who is obese. I avoided photos and situations where I would see myself (videos etc.) and was always told the traditional things such as you carry it well ect.

About a year ago I saw a picture of myself from a Christmas party and could not believe my eyes. I was standing there weighing 18 st and no idea how I had gotten to that stage. I am know about 13 1/2 stone and feel much better about myself and carry a much better opinion of myself now that I am a bit more disciplined about the way I live my life.

When I look back at things the people around me never said anything in deference to my feelings but in hindsight they were not doing me any favours.

Denial is a very strong and dangerous defense mechanism and can allow an individual to form a completely false self image. I am not saying that people should be pointing to people on the street but if there is someone in your life that matters make the decision to be honest and supportive. If they make the decision to keep going than so be it at least you have offered you support and not enabled the cycle of denial to keep them going in the way that they are claiming ignorance of the problem.

Just my opinion based on my own experience

Fair play. Did you lose the weight because you wanted to or was it because of what people on the streets that you don't even know thought about you when they seen you? Did you realise yourself that you needed to cut out the bad habits and start exercising and trim it down? Then the big question, do you feel losing the weight changed who you are in yourself or have you kept the same morals and principles from when you were overweight?

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Obesity has its health risks. People are being constantly told to eat correctly. Whether its socially acceptable or not is another issue.

If people choose to put their life at risk because of how they're living it's not for debate of society. It's up to them to sort themselves out and up to their friends and family to support them through it and give them confidence boosts they need. Criticism from random people in society can damage some peoples confidence and self esteem. There could be someone walking down the street who weighs 16 stone and they'd be snubbed. Even though for all we know that person may have previously weighed 19 or 20 stone. See, we don't know the ins and outs of why people become obese. We have no right whatsoever to out cast someone from our perfect little bubble within society just because they weigh too much in our opinion.

I just think it's sad that someone can look at someone they don't even know and think to themselves "Jaysus what a fat bastard/bítch, they need to lose some weight."

Penny Dreadful

grindelwald wrote: »

Arnold schwarzenegger is over weight,

Im over weight have been since i had my 3rd baby and went on the depo provera. im joining bootcamp next week to help shed it. BMI is 27.

I dont go on people weight or looks,
hugo from lost
heather from eastenders

who could hate them..... i just wanna give them a great big hug

i have a 10 year old who always asks is she fat. she 4foot 9 inches and 6 and a half stone, she takes a size 6 in adult clothes and a 5 1/2 shoe. She is bigger than most girls in her class ( she is built like a 12 year old in height and weight) she has a very healthy diet as she is diabetic and can run faster than anyone else in her class including the boys.

I hate the fact that she comes home asking if shes fat, i blame it on the media. who the hell wants to look like victoria beckham.

Fair play to you for joining bootcamp. I do it a lot and love it, the first class or two will be a shock to your body but stick with it and you'll start to love both the results and the actual classes too.
Re: your daughter, big hug to her. My 11 year old niece is hitting the curse of puberty where her body doesn't seem to know which end is the right way up and she has such serious concerns about being fat. It is worrying as she is very tall (like me, I was 5' 8" at 12, didn't grow a bit since but was that tall at a young age) and her body will settle down in time. It drives me mad that someone who is clearly not healthy like Victoria Beckham is somehow some kind of role model for young girls. I'd much rather she took someone like Gwen Steffani as her role model, yes she is very slim and slender but at least is up front about the fact that she works hard at her body, she exercises a whole lot and follows a good healthy diet.

sink

Newsflash, fat people already know they're fat. I'm overweight, not obese but getting there. I used to be a skinny as a rake in my teens. I accept that it's my fault I am the way I am, but it's not entirely about food and laziness, a lot of it is to do with self confidence. I'm not very good in social situations, I tend to recede out of any social commitments, I am far more comfortable on my own or with a few close friends. I have enough body image issues as it is without being told I'm fat in public, I don't see how that is going to help me.

Frankly it's my own issue, that I have to deal with privately and it's no one else business unless I decide to include them, so butt out. Everyone has their own demons to fight.

topper75

grindelwald wrote: »

im joining bootcamp next week to help shed it.

Good intentions - so fair play. However these big mad dramatic elaborate solutions rarely work. Small things over time are better e.g. shop 5 mins away? leave the car and walk, use stairs not lift, etc. It takes months to change your body shape in a sustainable way.

Bonito

sink wrote: »

Frankly it's my own issue, that I have to deal with privately and it's no one else business unless I decide to include them, so butt out. Everyone has their own demons to fight.

Nail on the head IMO.

Micky Dolenz

Fat people normally don't bother me but last week I was in a hospital canteen and there were a famliy of very over weight people there. It was awful watching them eat, so awful I had to leave. I can watch a smoker smoke, no problem and even watch a drunk drinking, atleast they are sober in the morning.