How do you define a D4?

opinion guy

Michaelrsh wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jU0ZhKHTUo

LOL - I think I know one of those girls:D Ahhhh the slaggins ahead!!!

melekalikimaka wrote: »

personally, having done it... i would not consider this hard work, repetitive but not taxing physically or mentally.

Fair enough. Instead of stacking shelves lets say brick-laying. Or moving furniture. Or teaching a class full of brats. Or being a fireman. Or nursing a room full of old people. The point is lots of jobs are hard, not just the mega-well-paid ones.

Bubs101

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you think that people poorer than your daddy dearest don't work hard ? Do you think that stackign shelves 8 hours a day for minimum wage is somehow not hard work ? See what your missing from the picture, either because your too young to have realised it yt or because you've been shielded, is that your dad got everything he has for TWO reasons - one was workign hard -you are right there, the other was pure dumb luck

First of all, a trained monkey could stack shelves. It's not hard. Secondly it's not "pure dumb luck" that leads one person to becoming a lawyer and the other to be working in Tesco. It's absolutely hard work

opinion guy

Bubs101 wrote: »

First of all, a trained monkey could stack shelves. It's not hard.

As I just said its not about stacking shelves. See my answer above as I'm not repeating myself.

Secondly it's not "pure dumb luck" that leads one person to becoming a lawyer and the other to be working in Tesco. It's absolutely hard work

Spoken like a true blue-blood elitist. Actually its both hard work and luck. Its pure dumb luck to be born to the right parents and to have the right opportunities. Born to parents who are not alcoholics, parents who don't live in Iraq, parents who don't beat the crap out of you, parents who value education. In the case of law, usually these days, parents with connections in the profession. If you think pure dumb luck is not some part of this, and that somehow you're somehow special to have your position in life, then you truly are a muppet. A bit of shelf stacking would do you some good.

This is the point - many people work hard. Whether you work hard stacking shelves, digging ditches or talkign law is largely down to look on the grand scale of things.

Glenster

Bubs101 wrote: »

First of all, a trained monkey could stack shelves.

A trained monkey could stack shelves a hell of a lot better than some of the mouth breathers they have in tesco. Was that tattoo worth it? You'll never have a real job.


Getting this back on topic, D4 to me just means rugby, collared shirts, and a bit of money. Who could possibly have a problem with those three awesome things?

Bubs101

opinion guy wrote: »

.


Spoken like a true blue-blood elitist. Actually its both hard work and luck. Its pure dumb luck to be born to the right parents and to have the right opportunities. Born to parents who are not alcoholics, parents who don't live in Iraq, parents who don't beat the crap out of you, parents who value education. In the case of law, usually these days, parents with connections in the profession. If you think pure dumb luck is not some part of this, and that somehow you're somehow special to have your position in life, then you truly are a muppet. A bit of shelf stacking would do you some good.

This stuff is such bollix. College is free here, school is free here. Stop making excuses. i went to Star of the Sea and in my class it was roughly 50/50 Ringsend/Sandymount and one murderer (sup Greener). The Ringsend kids did nothing but try and destroy the class. Every single one of them was in remedial English and most were in remedial maths. It was like having two completely different classes. You can blame the parents for some of it but the kids were there and they did absolutely nothing for themselves

old hippy

Glenster wrote: »

A trained monkey could stack shelves a hell of a lot better than some of the mouth breathers they have in tesco. Was that tattoo worth it? You'll never have a real job.


Getting this back on topic, D4 to me just means rugby, collared shirts, and a bit of money. Who could possibly have a problem with those three awesome things?

I started off stacking shelves & I have tattoos. I have been working in well paid jobs for years - bit of a generalisation there regarding Tesco staffers.

billybigunz

The kids are the parents and working classes are genetically inferior to the well off.

old hippy

billybigunz wrote: »

The kids are the parents and working classes are genetically inferior to the well off.

I'd say people who believe in class systems are inferior human beings, overall.

IMHO, of course.

billybigunz

old hippy wrote: »

I'd say people who believe in class systems are inferior human beings, overall.

IMHO, of course.

Define it by income then. Smart people on average make more money. Richer men have better looking wives. The smart, good looking offspring will do the same for generations.

An uncomfortable truth perhaps.

old hippy

billybigunz wrote: »

Define it by income then. Smart people on average make more money. Richer men have better looking wives. The smart, good looking offspring will do the same for generations.

An uncomfortable truth perhaps.

LOL. Know many "working class" people, then, do we? "Smart" as you put it, transcends all social strata. As for what constitutes "better looking", that's highly subjective and down to personal taste.

You have high hopes for the ensuing generations, I see. It sounds like a recipe for chinless, inbred wonders, clinging onto their chaise longues, supping absinthe and trying to shag the au paire, in all likelyhood.

billybigunz

old hippy wrote: »

LOL. Know many "working class" people, then, do we? "Smart" as you put it, transcends all social strata. As for what constitutes "better looking", that's highly subjective and down to personal taste.

You have high hopes for the ensuing generations, I see. It sounds like a recipe for chinless, inbred wonders, clinging onto their chaise longues, supping absinthe and trying to shag the au paire, in all likelyhood.

Read up a bit on evolution and breeding fairly simple concepts.

The chinless wonders you refer to were a result of putting family connections above natural breeding or attraction and are really part of history at this stage.

Co45

opinion guy wrote: »

As I just said its not about stacking shelves. See my answer above as I'm not repeating myself.


Spoken like a true blue-blood elitist. Actually its both hard work and luck. Its pure dumb luck to be born to the right parents and to have the right opportunities. Born to parents who are not alcoholics, parents who don't live in Iraq, parents who don't beat the crap out of you, parents who value education. In the case of law, usually these days, parents with connections in the profession. If you think pure dumb luck is not some part of this, and that somehow you're somehow special to have your position in life, then you truly are a muppet. A bit of shelf stacking would do you some good.

This is the point - many people work hard. Whether you work hard stacking shelves, digging ditches or talkign law is largely down to look on the grand scale of things.

LOL. Connections in Law mean nothing these days such is the fierce competition. My friend has been trying to gain steady employment in a law firm for years now and has had no luck despite his dad being a former partner of a huge law firm in Dublin.
Anyone can stack shelves and dig ditches, but to be a top level lawyer takes years upon years of hard work.
Do you ever wonder why those digging ditches are less educated and on the lower pay end of the bracket?
Sorry if you think thats elitist but its fact. Not one person (other than those who really feel connected to their job i.e paramedics, gardai etc.) would be digging ditches for minimum wage if they could land a job that would put them in the top earners bracket. The fact is a lot of them either don't have the intelligence, work ethic or confidence to survive in a high pressure enviroment like law. If it was easy there wouldnt be so much money in it.

opinion guy

I've decided to stop arguing with you all since ye are either too thick to see the flaw in your "logic" or are flat out trolling. so either way - please continue to demonstrate your D4ness and display your collective ignorance for all to see

old hippy

billybigunz wrote: »

Read up a bit on evolution and breeding fairly simple concepts.

The chinless wonders you refer to were a result of putting family connections above natural breeding or attraction and are really part of history at this stage.

Yeah, I think I know enough about human attraction, a chara. But you must explain why "working class" people aren't intelligent or attractive enough to hold good jobs. Unless it's a straw man argument, natch...

Co45

opinion guy wrote: »

I've decided to stop arguing with you all since ye are either too thick to see the flaw in your "logic" or are flat out trolling. so either way - please continue to demonstrate your D4ness and display your collective ignorance for all to see

I think your just bitter towards others achievements. When you see a young middle class kid working in a high paying job you instantly go ":rolleyes: His daddy must of gotten him that job" just because it makes you feel better about your own shortcomings. Work ethic and intelligence gets you into the high paying jobs not connections or wealth. It just so happens that these positions are mostly filled by middle class people because its probable that if their parents were successful in what they did they would more than likely pass their work ethic onto their kids.

Jaxxy

Co45 wrote: »

LOL. Connections in Law mean nothing these days such is the fierce competition. My friend has been trying to gain steady employment in a law firm for years now and has had no luck despite his dad being a former partner of a huge law firm in Dublin.
Anyone can stack shelves and dig ditches, but to be a top level lawyer takes years upon years of hard work.
Do you ever wonder why those digging ditches are less educated and on the lower pay end of the bracket?
Sorry if you think thats elitist but its fact. Not one person (other than those who really feel connected to their job i.e paramedics, gardai etc.) would be digging ditches for minimum wage if they could land a job that would put them in the top earners bracket. The fact is a lot of them either don't have the intelligence, work ethic or confidence to survive in a high pressure enviroment like law. If it was easy there wouldnt be so much money in it.

And how are these hard working folk being supported? Is mummy and doddy buying their food and clothes, their books and internet access, credit for their phones and a weekly allowance to socialise?

Not everyone is in that position. Not everyone can afford not to work fulltime while they spend years and years furthering their education. Not everyone has that luxury. Money and snobbery only breeds more money and snobbery. And people from these backgrounds are generally lazy. Why? Because they've had everything handed to them on a plate.

And btw, just because an individual has a degree does not necessarily make them more intelligent, or cleverer than anyone else from any other social background. What a ridiculously arrogant notion.

old hippy

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

Money and snobbery only breeds more money and snobbery.

And btw, just because an individual has a degree does not necessarily make them more intelligent, or cleverer than anyone else from any other social background. What a ridiculously arrogant notion.

Hear, hear

"And people from these backgrounds are generally lazy. Why? Because they've had everything handed to them on a plate."

Oops

Co45

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

And how are these hard working folk being supported? Is mummy and doddy buying their food and clothes, their books and internet access, credit for their phones and a weekly allowance to socialise?

How should I know? I assume most of them work part time jobs as well.
Better than the state supporting them anyway. Most courses include books and internet access is free in colleges by the way. I don't know what clothes and credit for phones has to do with education and work ethic though.. It just seems your bitter and trying to have a swipe.

Not everyone is in that position. Not everyone can afford not to work fulltime while they spend years and years furthering their education. Not everyone has that luxury. Money and snobbery only breeds more money and snobbery.

Boo-hoo stop complaining. And yes they can. My brother is studying in Galway and hasn't received a cent from me or my parents. He works part time and gets college accomadation. Hes doing excellent in college.
I moved over to England to play rugby and studied over there. I had rugby training most nights of the week, had a part time job AND college and I still managed to survive and never asked for money.
If we can why not anyone else?

And people from these backgrounds are generally lazy. Why? Because they've had everything handed to them on a plate.

Those that get 500 points in their leaving cert and graduate from a top college with a law degree are anything but lazy I can assure you that.

And btw, just because an individual has a degree does not necessarily make them more intelligent, or cleverer than anyone else from any other social background. What a ridiculously arrogant notion.

Did I say degree? I said people actively working in the top end jobs. The high positions, you don't get there being an idiot.

Jaxxy

old hippy wrote: »

Hear, hear

"And people from these backgrounds are generally lazy. Why? Because they've had everything handed to them on a plate."

Oops

No oops, it's true! They can sing and dance and throw all the temper tantrums they want trying to tell me that they've "worked hard" for their education. They have in their swiss rolls, they've studied the same amount as everyone else has but they feel the need to remind us of how epically awesome they are at any given opportunity.

Co45

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

No oops, it's true! They can sing and dance and throw all the temper tantrums they want trying to tell me that they've "worked hard" for their education. They have in their swiss rolls, they've studied the same amount as everyone else has but they feel the need to remind us of how epically awesome they are at any given opportunity.

Grand. Any middle class person working a high end job didn't work hard to get there. You've really showed your intelligence.

Jaxxy

Co45 wrote: »

How should I know? I assume most of them work part time jobs as well.
Better than the state supporting them anyway. Most courses include books and internet access is free in colleges by the way. I don't know what clothes and credit for phones has to do with education and work ethic though.. It just seems your bitter and trying to have a swipe.

Are you for real? You obviously don't truly have a clue how financially draining being a fulltime student is. And credit and clothes have nothing to do with education, but they are still a staple.

And I'm not bitter, I got my degree at night. You can rest assured that I genuinely DID work a damn sight harder than you did.

Co45 wrote: »

Boo-hoo stop complaining. And yes they can. My brother is studying in Galway and hasn't received a cent from me or my parents. He works part time and gets college accomadation. Hes doing excellent in college.
I moved over to England to play rugby and studied over there. I had rugby training most nights of the week, had a part time job AND college and I still managed to survive and never asked for money.
If we can why not anyone else?

Where'd you get the money to relocate to England? A money tree?

Co45 wrote: »

Those that get 500 points in their leaving cert and graduate from a top college with a law degree are anything but lazy I can assure you that.

Don't really care what you got in your Leaving Certificate personally, I didn't realise we were discussing YOU in this thread... Seems like we are now!

Co45 wrote: »

Did I say degree? I said people actively working in the top end jobs. The high positions, you don't get there being an idiot.

Yes but in order to get to that position you need further education behind you. Which brings me back to an earlier point. If you don't have financial backing further education isn't always an option. Which is why you see people from poorer backgrounds working the more "mundane" jobs. It has nothing to do with work ethic. Or intelligence. It has everything to do with opportunity and just your basic dumb luck.

My Uncle is a brickie. And not only would he buy you and sell you in a heartbeat, he's worked very hard throughout his life. Just because you have a "top-end" or "high-end" job as you keep putting it, doesn't mean you have worked harder than he has.

Jaxxy

Co45 wrote: »

Grand. Any middle class person working a high end job didn't work hard to get there. You've really showed shown? your intelligence.

Haha, it appears you have too. And I was referring to education in that post, not employment.

Co45

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

Are you for real? You obviously don't truly have a clue how financially draining being a fulltime student is. And credit and clothes have nothing to do with education, but they are still a staple.

Um I was one. And I am studying again.

And I'm not bitter, I got my degree at night. You can rest assured that I genuinely DID work a damn sight harder than you did.

How do you know that?

Where'd you get the money to relocate to England? A money tree?

You mean how did I pay for my flights over? I paid for them myself from money I had from a job in Ireland. I got part time employment over there as well whilst at the time the club were giving me some money for playing.

Don't really care what you got in your Leaving Certificate personally, I didn't realise we were discussing YOU in this thread... Seems like we are now!

Emm, thats not what I personally got in the leaving cert it was an example...

Yes but in order to get to that position you need further education behind you. Which brings me back to an earlier point. If you don't have financial backing further education isn't always an option. Which is why you see people from poorer backgrounds working the more "mundane" jobs. It has nothing to do with work ethic. Or intelligence. It has everything to do with opportunity and just your basic dumb luck.

College is free.

My Uncle is a brickie. And not only would he buy you and sell you in a heartbeat, he's worked very hard throughout his life. Just because you have a "top-end" or "high-end" job as you keep putting it, doesn't mean you have worked harder than he has.

Haha, it appears you have too

I wouldn't really define intelligence as to whether someone is prone to the odd spelling error to be honest.

Bubs101

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

My Uncle is a brickie. And not only would he buy you and sell you in a heartbeat, he's worked very hard throughout his life. Just because you have a "top-end" or "high-end" job as you keep putting it, doesn't mean you have worked harder than he has.

It does though and I mean no offence to your Uncle. A Lawyer and a Brickie might work as hard as each other in their respective jobs but the brickie could never have worked at all the day before he got the job whereas a Lawyer worked all through his childhood and his adolescance to get there

Jaxxy

I'm only picking out two points from your previous post, because the rest of it is all semantics really and it could go on forever.

Co45 wrote: »

College is free.

It really annoys me when people say this. Because college is far from free. When you're at college as a fulltime student you have little to no income (even if you have a parttime job, the amounts you receive are negligible). College =/= free. Maybe for some people it is; people who don't have to pay their own way and can rely on other sources to supplement their income.

Co45 wrote: »

I wouldn't really define intelligence as to whether someone is prone to the odd spelling error to be honest.

And I don't define it based on opinion. But that's the assumption you made about me after I posted my disagreement.

Bubs101 wrote:

It does though and I mean no offence to your Uncle. A Lawyer and a Brickie might work as hard as each other in their respective jobs but the brickie could never have worked at all the day before he got the job whereas a Lawyer worked all through his childhood and his adolescance to get there

I'm sorry, what? Children are studying law now?

opinion guy

billybigunz wrote: »

Read up a bit on evolution and breeding fairly simple concepts.

Eugenics was disproven 100 years ago. Yeah go look it up.

Co45 wrote: »

I think your just bitter towards others achievements. When you see a young middle class kid working in a high paying job you instantly go ":rolleyes: His daddy must of gotten him that job" just because it makes you feel better about your own shortcomings. Work ethic and intelligence gets you into the high paying jobs not connections or wealth. It just so happens that these positions are mostly filled by middle class people because its probable that if their parents were successful in what they did they would more than likely pass their work ethic onto their kids.

HAHAHA. Bitter towards others achievements? I instantly go what ? Hmmm pal your psychic powers are off today. Why do you presume to know why I'm saying what I'm saying. What makes you think that I'm not middle class and in one of these "high paying jobs" that you are banging on about ?

Co45 wrote: »

Those that get 500 points in their leaving cert and graduate from a top college with a law degree are anything but lazy I can assure you that.

Crap. Absolute crap. For one thing you can go to grinds school and regurgitate what you are fed and do well without even warming up vast quantities of you brain, for another most of those who get 500 points+ do so because they're parents make them. And quite apart from that I've known several people who got 500+ points in leaving and went on to fail out of college.

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

Where'd you get the money to relocate to England? A money tree?

haha - i like that.

Co45 wrote:

You mean how did I pay for my flights over? I paid for them myself from money I had from a job in Ireland. I got part time employment over there as well whilst at the time the club were giving me some money for playing.

So who drove you to rugby training. Who paid for your coaching ? Who supported you to the point till you could get a scholarship or play professionally or whatever it is you are doing. Cause I can guarantee you if you were born to parents who didn't do those things for you you would not be where you are now. See....dumb luck.

opinion guy

Bubs101 wrote: »

It does though and I mean no offence to your Uncle. A Lawyer and a Brickie might work as hard as each other in their respective jobs but the brickie could never have worked at all the day before he got the job whereas a Lawyer worked all through his childhood and his adolescance to get there

Yes but the kid who became a brickie, generally speaking, does not grow up with the same opportunities as the kid who became a lawyer. Its no coincidence by the wya that to become a barrister you ahv eto work for free "devilling" for a couple of years before you start earning. Keeps out the rif-raf. Only those with daddy's support can do it.

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

It really annoys me when people say this. Because college is far from free. When you're at college as a fulltime student you have little to no income (even if you have a parttime job, the amounts you receive are negligible). College =/= free. Maybe for some people it is; people who don't have to pay their own way and can rely on other sources to supplement their income.

+1000

It costs at least 15-20 grand to live in Dublin for a year, possibly more (especially if you come from outside the city and are not so lucky to stay in daddies pad in D4 whilst you study). Yes you can work and study at the same time but your studies suffer for that. I will say education is more equitable here than other countries, but to suggest that those from rich backgrounds don't still have an advantage is absurd.

Co45

I'm done with this argument so not going to bother responding but as to this personal question...

opinion guy wrote: »

So who drove you to rugby training. Who paid for your coaching ? Who supported you to the point till you could get a scholarship or play professionally or whatever it is you are doing. Cause I can guarantee you if you were born to parents who didn't do those things for you you would not be where you are now. See....dumb luck.

No one payed for my coaching, I got it at a non-fee paying school. Are you essentially attributing 'dumb luck' to anyone who was lucky enough to have their parents send them to school? Because theres millions of Irish who went to school that aren't working in top end jobs.

Bubs101

opinion guy wrote: »

Yes but the kid who became a brickie, generally speaking, does not grow up with the same opportunities as the kid who became a lawyer. Its no coincidence by the wya that to become a barrister you ahv eto work for free "devilling" for a couple of years before you start earning. Keeps out the rif-raf. Only those with daddy's support can do it..

That's a fair enough point but a Lawyer is only an example. there are a raft of other prestige jobs that are in essence everyone has the same shot at and as for not the same oppurtunities as I pointed out earlier I went to school with a bunch of kids who went to Ringsend who had the exact same opportunities as me and ****ed them up. Had a friend who went to that school, then to Marrion which is the same school that most of them went to and went on to get Schols in Trinity. He was from Sandymount no point out the different opportunity he had to the others

opinion guy

Co45 wrote: »

No one payed for my coaching, I got it at a non-fee paying school.

Fair enough. Who drove you to rugby ? Who bought you new kit ? Who cheered for you at your games. Your parents ? Because lots of other peoples parents DON'T do that stuff.

Are you essentially attributing 'dumb luck' to anyone who was lucky enough to have their parents send them to school? Because theres millions of Irish who went to school that aren't working in top end jobs.

Thats a straw man argument. Everyone went to school. I'm saying the people who do well are those who both go to school and had the dumb luck to be born to supportive parents. Really its pretty simple.

You know, one of the soundest most decent guys I know is thorough rugby playing D4 guy. But he is the FIRST one to say how lucky he is - in fact I've heard him say so on several occasions. In part thats why he is such a decent guy - he recognises his own good fortune. Not many can do that.