M11/N30 - Gorey to Enniscorthy [open to traffic]

prunudo

fricatus wrote: »

Good question! I seem to remember they used to do it before the MSAs were planned. At the very least, they should plan rest areas at junctions - a small car park, a few picnic tables and bins. These lay-bys are not safe: they're vulnerable to vehicles leaving the carriageway in the event of a collision, and they have limited room/lane length for vehicles to merge safely at motorway speeds. It's a blessing that there have been no such accidents yet, but TII shouldn't wait around for one to happen.

I always liked those little picnic spots they have along the road network around Europe. Wouldn't fancy stopping too long in the laybys we have here.

MichealD

thethinker wrote: »

If travelling from Enniscorthy to Ferns, how should one navigate the double roundabout at Scarawalsh. I am doing right (inside lane) for both, but frequently have cars on my left (outside) when exitting second roundabout i.e. cars that don't turn off for Bunclody. As there is only one lane on exit, it is kind of important that there be a recognised standard. I can see an argument for being in either lane. Therefore some lane direction road markings would be handy, so that at least most of us could be on the same page.

There is a 'recognised' standard. Its in the rules of the road. You should be in the left hand lane on both roundabouts to go straight ahead. Exceptions to the rule will be marked - ie two lane approach where the the left lane is clearly marked left turn/1st exit only, often in urban settings.


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

fricatus

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Lay-bys are better than nothing........

Well no actually, they're worse than nothing, because of the dangers I've referred to. A small rest area at every junction, well out of the way of fast-moving vehicles - that would be better than nothing, I agree.

Of course, better again would be something that passed the "lone woman traveller" test: a basic, well-lit rest area, with a car park, tables, bins, public toilets and of course CCTV.

Duffryman

MichealD wrote: »

There is a 'recognised' standard. Its in the rules of the road. You should be in the left hand lane on both roundabouts to go straight ahead. Exceptions to the rule will be marked - ie two lane approach where the the left lane is clearly marked left turn/1st exit only, often in urban settings.


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

Well, in this particular case, that's exactly the problem, rather than the answer.

Prior to the roadworks, the system if you were heading northbound at the Scarawalsh roundabout was to take the left-hand lane for Bunclody/Carlow, and the right-hand lane for Ferns/Gorey/etc. This was clearly indicated with signage and road markings.

But now those signs and road markings have been removed, at least temporarily. It means that some people who are familiar with the road are still doing what was the 'correct' thing all along. However, others are now doing the 'correct' thing according to the ROTR, which you point to yourself. And as I say, that's exactly the problem.

I drive home from work that way every evening. I'm just hoping they put signage and road markings back before too long, one way or the other, just to clear up the confusion that currently exists.

PhilOssophy

fricatus wrote: »

Well no actually, they're worse than nothing, because of the dangers I've referred to. A small rest area at every junction, well out of the way of fast-moving vehicles - that would be better than nothing, I agree.

Of course, better again would be something that passed the "lone woman traveller" test: a basic, well-lit rest area, with a car park, tables, bins, public toilets and of course CCTV.

Is that not what the services are for? They are only down the road.

loyatemu

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Is that not what the services are for? They are only down the road.

there are 2 full service areas on the N11 which is probably sufficient given the length of the route. Also unlike in France etc the towns on the route are mostly very close to the motorway.

thethinker

MichealD wrote: »

There is a 'recognised' standard. Its in the rules of the road. You should be in the left hand lane on both roundabouts to go straight ahead. Exceptions to the rule will be marked - ie two lane approach where the the left lane is clearly marked left turn/1st exit only, often in urban settings.


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

And when people joining from the motorway also want to go to Ferns, they will be in the inside (right) lane as they are turning right (4th exit I think). Very messy when only one lane to exit into going to Ferns.

kneemos

thethinker wrote: »

And when people joining from the motorway also want to go to Ferns, they will be in the inside (right) lane as they are turning right (4th exit I think). Very messy when only one lane to exit into going to Ferns.

Not sure there's two lanes on the first roundabout.

VR6

medoc wrote: »

Why are they still putting lay-bys on Motorways?

Indeed. The thoughts of a child accidentally straying onto the main carriageway from one of these is enough to make me nauseous....

serfboard

medoc wrote: »

Why are they still putting lay-bys on Motorways?

This might be just a misreading/misremembering on my part, I'm open to correction ...

During the time when we built the greatest number of motorways in Ireland, they were often held up due to planning objections, etc. The NRA came up with a great strategy to get around this - instead of planning "motorways" what were planned and built were HQDCs which were then "converted" to motorway by Ministerial Order. This made the construction process much faster. However, one part of the HQDC design is that lay-bys must be provided.

I'm not sure if that's exactly right, but it is my recollection ...

marno21

The M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy scheme is being built under motorway order rather than redesignation after construction.

What's more relevant is that this scheme got planning permission in 2010 when these laybys where the order of the day and it's being built as planned. Whether these laybys will be open or barriered off is a more important question.

Sometimes you'd forget that this scheme (and others like it) are relics from the FF roadbuilding era that just weren't built. The New Ross bypass was approved by ABP in 2008.

jd

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Serious crash near the works at Clogh roundabout today. A truck was involved which subsequently caught fire and the driver was seriously injured. There's a 50kph limit there and all kinds of traffic management in place. Someone not paying attention would be my guess.

There is a piece in the Wexford People today about. It looks like there was a car stopped in the hard shoulder which was hit by a truck.

A COMMUNITY is in mourning following the terrible loss of 30-year-old Philip O’Connor from Oylegate in a road accident on the M11 outside Gorey on Saturday afternoon.


The scene of the accident on the northbound section of the M11 just off the Clogh roundabout which claimed the life of Philip O’Connor .
Mr O’Connor, who worked in Intel in Leixlip, lost his life after a truck collided with his vehicle at around 2.10 p.m.

It is believed the car was parked on the hard shouldernear the Clogh roundabout outside Gorey at the time. The collision caused the vehicle to ignite and Mr O’Connor sustained fatal injuries.

RIP

PhilOssophy

VR6 wrote: »

Indeed. The thoughts of a child accidentally straying onto the main carriageway from one of these is enough to make me nauseous....

But wouldn't you stop at the services a few miles up the road instead?

Rattlehead_ie

jd wrote: »

There is a piece in the Wexford People today about. It looks like there was a car stopped in the hard shoulder which was hit by a truck.
RIP

I passed by that southbound on Saturday at about 16:30. 2 fire brigades and emergency services sitting on the grass. It had the look of something bad. Horrible to hear and such a tragedy, once or twice in an emergency I've thought about stopping on the side of a motorway like that, never again.
RIP.

Sam Russell

I have seen so many videos of the US freeways where people stop on the hard shoulder only to be hit by some lunatic.

If ever I have to stop on a motorway, (not often), I always take the view to get off the hard shoulder completely and park on the grass if I can. It is lethal to stop on the hard shoulder, and should be avoided if possible.

Drivers on the motorway assume that they are invincible and misjudge everything, particularly stationary vehicles. They are often in a reduced state of attention and easily distracted, and are often near stupor - not a lot happens on a motorway until it is an accident.

medoc

jd wrote: »

Is there a lay-by on the new section of the M11? What is in the photo above may be closed off when it opens, and for the use of Gardai and for checks etc. There is a service area 20 minutes up the road past Gorey.

Yes it might indeed be closed off or restricted when the road opens. The M6 near the Tullamore exit has them still (both directions). And I’ve seen kids etc standing around the stopped cars on more than one occasion Fair enough the M6 was built as HQDC but this is built as Motorway so should not be opened with a lay-by. There is no stopping on a motorway unless an emergency and it should be enforced.

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

this scheme got planning permission in 2010 when these laybys where the order of the day and it's being built as planned. Whether these laybys will be open or barriered off is a more important question.

That's fair enough that they are being built as planned, but in the recent schemes I've seen, the laybys are barriered off. Which makes you wonder - why bother with them at all? Surely the design could be altered to remove the laybys without impinging too much?

jd

serfboard wrote: »

Surely the design could be altered to remove the laybys without impinging too much?

BAM love changes

MichealD

Alternative layby use

josip

Mother of god. What's the story behind that?
They must have known in advance that they were going to catch loads to have that many guards in place.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

josip wrote: »

Mother of god. What's the story behind that?
They must have known in advance that they were going to catch loads to have that many guards in place.

Occasionally they have mandatory intoxication testing on motorways, and it usually looks like that.

badgerbroc11

kneemos wrote: »

Can't remember if the second roundabout used to have two lanes on entry. One for Bunclody and straight ahead.
May be where the confusion is.

Old roundabout had two lanes. There is a sign now which clearly indicates the lane to be in but many are cutting across.

For the new roundabout the sign is still blanked, I think it'll have to show which lane.

As the short strip between the roundabouts is the second exit (from Enniscorthy road) then you'd imagine that you should approach first roundabout in the left lane and then take the second exit and move into the right lane.

I've been approaching both roundabouts in the right lane as it feels more natural, hence why the sign needs to indicate it. Looking carefully at it everyday. The cones don't help.

badgerbroc11

josip wrote: »

Mother of god. What's the story behind that?
They must have known in advance that they were going to catch loads to have that many guards in place.

They also sometimes have customs checking fuel and revenue checking for small traders registration and if people in the dole are also working.

This week they've caught a good few on the M4 with similar checks.

thethinker

badgerbroc11 wrote: »

Old roundabout had two lanes. There is a sign now which clearly indicates the lane to be in but many are cutting across.

For the new roundabout the sign is still blanked, I think it'll have to show which lane.

As the short strip between the roundabouts is the second exit (from Enniscorthy road) then you'd imagine that you should approach first roundabout in the left lane and then take the second exit and move into the right lane.

I've been approaching both roundabouts in the right lane as it feels more natural, hence why the sign needs to indicate it. Looking carefully at it everyday. The cones don't help.

I think if you changed from left to right lane in the short strip, you would just be cutting up cars heading for the motorway. It is just too short. But technically, I think you are correct. I wonder why they couldn't have made just one big roundabout?

In my mind, all busy roundabouts should have two lanes on entry, two lanes around them, and two on exit. You should approach in left lane only if taking first exit. Right lane for all other exits. Then you should safely be able to exit from right lane of roundabout into right exit lane, as anyone on your left side should be exitting into the left exit lane.

Maybe it will all work fine, but I would worry when you have lorries coming from Dublin, New Ross, and Rosslare all converging at the one point. It wont require much speed to cause a serious accident.

badgerbroc11

thethinker wrote: »

I think if you changed from left to right lane in the short strip, you would just be cutting up cars heading for the motorway. It is just too short. But technically, I think you are correct. I wonder why they couldn't have made just one big roundabout?

In my mind, all busy roundabouts should have two lanes on entry, two lanes around them, and two on exit. You should approach in left lane only if taking first exit. Right lane for all other exits. Then you should safely be able to exit from right lane of roundabout into right exit lane, as anyone on your left side should be exitting into the left exit lane.

Maybe it will all work fine, but I would worry when you have lorries coming from Dublin, New Ross, and Rosslare all converging at the one point. It wont require much speed to cause a serious accident.

Agreed. Hopefully they'll update road markings on the approach to the first roundabout. Looked again at the signage on the approach this morning. No indication of lanes on it.

kneemos

Complicated set up for strangers,thank God for satvnav.

Sinage is way too cluttered anyway,they insist on putting Irish on. UK signs are readable at a glance.

PhilOssophy

badgerbroc11 wrote: »

They also sometimes have customs checking fuel and revenue checking for small traders registration and if people in the dole are also working.

This week they've caught a good few on the M4 with similar checks.

There is nothing wrong with occasional blitzes of drink-driving/customs/dole cheat checks on motorways. Should be more of them.

Cantona's Collars

Apparently the weird looking barrier on part of the new Slaney bridge is designed to be an anti-suicide barrier. It really only takes in the part of the bridge that crosses the railway. If you want to jump onto the road below or into the river then on with you.

fricatus

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Apparently the weird looking barrier on part of the new Slaney bridge is designed to be an anti-suicide barrier. It really only takes in the part of the bridge that crosses the railway. If you want to jump onto the road below or into the river then on with you.

I read somewhere that those blanking barriers that you see on road bridges over railways are there to comply with an old railways regulation that stemmed from the need for farmers to be able to drive livestock on the road and for the animals not to be able to see trains passing below at speed (and thus be startled).

IIRC, the regulation remains in place for all roads, including motorways, and this is why the bridges crossing railways are different from those crossing roads, rivers, canals, etc.

An example that bugs me is the Dock Road (Ferrybank DC) in Waterford which would have a lovely view of the city only for the big plates of sheet metal installed over the bit where it crosses the railway. These are not present further up the road.

I think the anti-suicide thing is rubbish, otherwise as you say, it would be carried along the entire length of the bridge, not just the railway part.

Maybe someone can confirm?

kneemos

Could be to prevent anybody dropping rocks on passing trains.