Homophobia, Homosexuality and Men

Boston

iptba wrote: »

Of course financial benefits for the couple mean others are paying for it. So society may decide it only has so much resources from taxes, etc. So, in reply to the first point, there can be a reason (which might be nothing to do with homophobia) even if some/many/most may disagree with the reason.

Then the correct response is to reduce the tax benefits for all married couples rather then arbitrary restricting who can get married.

iptba

Boston wrote: »

Then the correct response is to reduce the tax benefits for all married couples rather then arbitrary restricting who can get married.

Correct is a strong word. In most things in life there are shades of grey or sometimes alternative possibilities. An alterative response might be to restrict benefits to either all couples who have children or even perhaps gay couples who have children.

There can be unintended consequences with changes. Could lots of heterosexual men or women decide to marry each other (i.e. person of the same sex) for the tax breaks?

Boston

iptba wrote: »

Correct is a strong word. In most things in life there are shades of grey or sometimes alternative possibilities. An alterative response might be to restrict benefits to either all couples who have children or even perhaps gay couples who have children.

There can be unintended consequences with changes. Could lots of heterosexual men or women decide to marry each other (i.e. person of the same sex) for the tax breaks?

Assumption being that the tax benefit is for the purpose of children. Child benefit is for children. I like the way you added "(person of the same sex)". IT shows you're aware of the flaw in that argument. There is nothing stopping heterosexuals from getting married for tax benefits nor homosexuals getting married for tax benefits. The reality is that the tax benefits don't really matter that much unless you're a cohabiting couple sharing expenses with one of you earning significantly less then the other. Nowhere that gay or civil marriage has been legalised has seen an increase in fraudulent marriages.

iptba

Boston wrote: »

The reality is that the tax benefits don't really matter that much unless you're a cohabiting couple sharing expenses with one of you earning significantly less then the other.

Is inheritance tax not also an issue?

iptba

Boston wrote: »

Nowhere that gay or civil marriage has been legalised has seen an increase in fraudulent marriages.

What is the definition of increase? Have there been cases of fradulent marriages?

Boston

Yes, but we're talking about reasons gay people would want to get married. Few people are thinking "In 40 -50 years, you'll have to pay tax on my half of the house otherwise".

iptba

Boston wrote: »

Yes, but we're talking about reasons gay people would want to get married. Few people are thinking "In 40 -50 years, you'll have to pay tax on my half of the house otherwise".

Ok, I haven't thought about the idea much so the discussion will tease out some issues for me. I'm sure people will give out to me but maybe there should be an upper limit for marriage? Inheritance tax can be quite substantial.

Boston

iptba wrote: »

What is the definition of increase? Have there been cases of fradulent marriages?

Well mate, it falls to you to demonstrate there has been an increase in fraudulent marriages for tax purposes since it's your argument against gay marriage. By increase I mean an increase beyond what would be the normal percentage. I mean northern Island has had civil partnership for awhile now but there hasn't been a huge flood of people looking to tie the knot so far for lover nor for money.

Additionally, given how difficult it is to get divorced* in this country I don't see a lot of people doing so on a whim.

*you could of course get in annulled, but then you'd open yourself up for prosecution for tax fraud.

iptba

Boston wrote: »

Assumption being that the tax benefit is for the purpose of children. Child benefit is for children.

Well perhaps that is what it is designed for even if it might be a blunt way of achieving it. It could be "sharpened" as I say to apply to just couples with children.

Boston

iptba wrote: »

Well perhaps that is what it is designed for even if it might be a blunt way of achieving it. It could be "sharpened" as I say to apply to just couples with children.

But it isn't. Nothing more I can say then that. Unless the benifits are restricted to just couples with (dependent) kids, the arguement falls flat on its face. Also, rather irrelevant as the number one tax benefit, the sharing of tax credits doesn't actually matter that much if both partners are in full time employment earning similar amounts.

Dr Galen

call me an old romantic but I struggle to believe that the main reason for any couple to get married is the tax breaks.

CDfm

Its the tear and share brioche with the icing and chocolate in bed on a saturday morning.

Dr Galen

totally OT CDfm










they are ****ing delicious, especially with hot chocolate

/OT-ness, serious hats on

CDfm

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

totally OT CDfm



they are ****ing delicious, especially with hot chocolate

/OT-ness, serious hats on

If thats what they want - I think we should give in to them.

But seriously, isn't it what everyone wants.

Tarzan007

amacachi wrote: »

I really don't give a **** if someone is straight or gay. I hate campness/loudness, which apparently makes me homophobic.

It might not be PC correct but gotta agree their. Some gays want to be picked on if you ask me, persecution complex.

Boston

Same way some cork men have a massive chip on their shoulder.

fonecrusher1

Boston wrote: »

Same way some cork men have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Thing is i don't really think there is anything anybody can say without getting a fairly snappish and just generally derogatory remark from you.

I'm a bit overweight myself & usually get the old fat jokes aimed at me....its just a laugh, i don't bitch & moan about it.
Ginger haired people get the piss taken out of them all the time.
Black people have to endure bigotry the gay folks could only dream of.

I used to take the piss out of a gay dude i worked with all the time & vice versa. Oh & he couldn't stand ultra camp gay people.

Boston your not even gay yet you contribute vigorously to this thread as if you were a gay bloke with a chip on your shoulder?? Whats that about.:rolleyes:

CDfm

Boston wrote: »

Same way some cork men have a massive chip on their shoulder.

Cork had an openly gay bar from the 70s and not in the back street either but on McCurtain St which is on the main drag-like D'Olier St is in Dublin.

So I dont imagine Cork gays ever had a chip on their shoulder-at least not in my lifetime.

pikachucheeks

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I'm a bit overweight myself & usually get the old fat jokes aimed at me....its just a laugh, i don't bitch & moan about it.
Ginger haired people get the piss taken out of them all the time.
Black people have to endure bigotry the gay folks could only dream of.

I actually think it's quite sad, the way people will tease each other and "joke" about certain things.
Sure, it can be argued that joking about a topic can lessen the taboo around it, but often, that fun, light-hearted way of joking can go too far.

Overweight people shouldn't have to deal with abuse from other people about being heavy. It can be a sensitive issue - in the same way being gay can be.

Just because someone is different than you doesn't mean you have the right to slag them or subject them to jokes. Not everyone finds them funny!
Being "different" in society can actually be very hard for people, without them having to deal with the taunts of others.

Also, just because it might happen people "all the time" doesn't make it acceptable or OK.

fonecrusher1

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I actually think it's quite sad, the way people will tease each other and "joke" about certain things.
Sure, it can be argued that joking about a topic can lessen the taboo around it, but often, that fun, light-hearted way of joking can go too far.

Overweight people shouldn't have to deal with abuse from other people about being heavy. It can be a sensitive issue - in the same way being gay can be.

Just because someone is different than you doesn't mean you have the right to slag them or subject them to jokes. Not everyone finds them funny!
Being "different" in society can actually be very hard for people, without them having to deal with the taunts of others.

Also, just because it might happen people "all the time" doesn't make it acceptable or OK.

Yeah but in the real world thats the way it goes.
Its nice & all to day dream about some sort of utopian alternate reality where everyone is perfectly nice to each other & everyones holding hands & singing but its pie in the sky IMO.
In all fairness its called banter & i'd much rather have it that way than a fake environment where people smile & say hello but the minute your out of the room talk **** about you.

I'll take the piss out of anyone to their face, within reason & of course accept a few jokes at my expense.
But what i will not do is side step a certain minority because they think their untouchable.
Do you think a person in a wheelchair would appreciate being avoided like the plague when it comes to a bit of good natured mocking?
If anything its an insult to them.

Giselle

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

But what i will not do is side step a certain minority because they think their untouchable.
Do you think a person in a wheelchair would appreciate being avoided like the plague when it comes to a bit of good natured mocking?
If anything its an insult to them.

Huge HUGE difference between mocking someone who could use a few pounds or has ginger hair, and mocking a persons life altering disability.

If you have to mock a wheelchair bound person, find something else to mock them about other than that.

Its not about being untouchable, its about manners and compassion.

fonecrusher1

Giselle wrote: »

Huge HUGE difference between mocking someone who could use a few pounds or has ginger hair, and mocking a persons life altering disability.

If you have to mock a wheelchair bound person, find something else to mock them about other than that.

Its not about being untouchable, its about manners and compassion.

Look don't try to make me out to be 'the bad guy' here please, i can spot it a mile away & my thanks seeker detection machine is going nuts.;)

And if you make an accusation like that against me again im going to put in a complaint against you.

You know fine well what i meant is to take part in a bit of humorous banter & nothing to do with mocking anyones disability.

Giselle

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Look don't try to make me out to be 'the bad guy' here please, i can spot it a mile away & my thanks seeker detection machine is going nuts.;)

And if you make an accusation like that against me again im going to put in a complaint against you.

You know fine well what i meant is to take part in a bit of humorous banter & nothing to do with mocking anyones disability.

Accusation?

Irony, much?

OldGoat

Simmer down everyone. Don't make me throw bans and infractions around.

CDfm

Its an interesting thread.

Does anyone slag off gays anymore or indeed how sensitive are they about it. thats a question only a homosexual could answer.

this evening driving i was listening to newstalk and the sports guys were talking about justin fashnu the first £1 million pound black player and first and probably last openly gay footballer. At Nottingham Forest Brian clough subjected him to homophobic rants and put him on loan and spoke badly of him for years. He (fashanu)also was a devout christian.He commited suicide in fairly tragic circumstances.

So it is true that certain families and careers are closed to homosexuals or that even joking about it can affect a persons personal and professional life.

This in a way that having ginger hair or needing to loose a few pounds cant compare.

Boston

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Thing is i don't really think there is anything anybody can say without getting a fairly snappish and just generally derogatory remark from you.

I'm a bit overweight myself & usually get the old fat jokes aimed at me....its just a laugh, i don't bitch & moan about it.
Ginger haired people get the piss taken out of them all the time.
Black people have to endure bigotry the gay folks could only dream of.

I used to take the piss out of a gay dude i worked with all the time & vice versa. Oh & he couldn't stand ultra camp gay people.

I see, you've been surround your entire life be assholes so you've decided to thats the way to behave. Black women have it harder then black men, so really black men should just shut the fuk up. You're a genus.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Boston your not even gay yet you contribute vigorously to this thread as if you were a gay bloke with a chip on your shoulder?? Whats that about.:rolleyes:

I'm trying to live up to you, my ideal.

CDfm wrote: »

Cork had an openly gay bar from the 70s and not in the back street either but on McCurtain St which is on the main drag-like D'Olier St is in Dublin.

So I dont imagine Cork gays ever had a chip on their shoulder-at least not in my lifetime.

You know, I find it incredibly hard to understand the points you make and how they relate to the discussion at hand. It's as if you're replying to a conversation in your head.

CDfm

Boston wrote: »

You know, I find it incredibly hard to understand the points you make and how they relate to the discussion at hand. It's as if you're replying to a conversation in your head.

You mentioned Cork - I thought it was worth pointing out that to my knowledge Cork has had a gay community in the open since the 70s. I thought it was worth pointing out.

In the context of the thread I felt it was worth pointing out.

Boston

Anybody reading your reply would be forgiven for thinking I said gay cork men have a chip on their shoulder, which is seemingly how you took it up.

CDfm

Ah boston - you are assuming I am gay -which I am not. I was making a factual comment that in some places it is more acceptable than in others.Cork being one.

I also made a point about careers etc.

Boston

CDfm wrote: »

Ah boston - you are assuming I am gay

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've no idea where you pulled that out of none. I've reread my post and I cannot see how you reached that conclusion.