Female on Male Violence

sam34

CDfm wrote: »

"She supposedly got him out and laid him on the ground," he said. "He was in and out of consciousness when my guys got there."

CDfm wrote: »

Apparently its what the neighbours said

i wouldnt pass judgement on someone based on them "supposedly" and "apparently" having done something

CDfm

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

is that because the stats don't exist or because men don't go further with the claims, e.g pressing charges etc.

IMHO its because the system does not allow men to go further. So the cases peter out.

Nevyn

Men can get barring orders and safety orders.

CDfm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Men can get barring orders and safety orders.

Yes but they neither present or report.

The resourses allocated to Amen are for the Old North Eastern Health Board catchment area.

Its a double edged sword where a person has kids as they may end up quitting the house and there is not a national housing policy for men or refuge network in that situation.

Dr Galen

CDfm wrote: »

IMHO its because the system does not allow men to go further. So the cases peter out.

So how does the system not allow men to go further. I'm talking factual stuff here, not he said she said stuff?

iptba

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

So how does the system not allow men to go further. I'm talking factual stuff here, not he said she said stuff?

CDfm, I'd be interested in "anecdotal information" or "qualitative information" if you don't have "factual stuff".

CDfm

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]

Here is an Extract from the Monaghan Study on the Amen Website

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
Mental abuse [/FONT]seems to be the most prevalent form of abuse used by female perpetrators.
All of the men surveyed had experienced some form of mental abuse with 82% having
unsubstantiated allegations made against them. 85% of the abusers threatened to report
the male victim as the perpetrator and in many cases the threat was carried out. OthersThe
economic vulnerability of male victims is also highlighted. For example, 80% were
threatened with being put out of their homes while 72% were threatened with being left
5
with nothing. reported family finances being squandered recklessly and in many
cases leading to severe debt, loss of property and livelihood.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
IMPACT OF THE ABUSE
[/FONT]
According to 50% of the men surveyed, mental abuse was the most damaging and the
effects were longer lasting. Earlier it was cited that 55% of the men were quite confident
before the abuse, yet 82% stated they now suffered from low self-esteem and 62% said
they now suffered from depression and in some cases seriously thought of suicide. While
85% stated they were physically strong before the abuse, 77% now suffered from
insomnia and 62% said they had lost their appetite. Other comments from the men
surveyed included the effects of the abuse on their jobs and their relationships with their
children.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
IMPACT OF ABUSE ON CHILDREN
[/FONT]
All the respondents said they had children. Many of them stated that their children had
also been abused by their partners. The type of abuse the men had experienced seemed to
have been replicated with their children. For example, 82% said their children suffered
mental abuse while 50% said their children had suffered physical abuse. Despite 50% of
the respondents reporting their concerns for their children to the relevant agencies, 90%
of their partners were still awarded custody of the children. The men also reported that
their children had experienced severe anxiety, sleeplessness, bed-wetting and problems
relating to school. With 85% of men experiencing access problems, there are serious
concerns for the men regarding their relationships with their children and being alienated
from them.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
DISCLOSING THE ABUSE
[/FONT]
In terms of disclosing the abusive situation the men did not report particularly positive
experiences. Of the 45% who had contact with the Gardai, 97% of these felt they were
not taken seriously. When the 55% who did not seek help from the Gardai, where asked
why not, 80% said they felt they would not be taken seriously and 77% said they feared
ridicule and felt ashamed (The incidence of men reporting domestic violence to the
Gardai is 11% as per the Gardai Annual report 1998). They have cited being perceived as
"weak", being treated as "a joke", and “not being taken seriously” as reasons for not even
attempting to contact services which might have been supportive in their dilemma.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
REASONS FOR NOT LEAVING
[/FONT]
The respondents gave a variety of reasons when asked why they did not leave. For example, 70% said they
feared for the safety of their children while 60% feared they would lose contact with their children. While
60% said they had nowhere to go and that they had financial reasons for not leaving, another 27% said they
did not realise they were being abused at the time.

6
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
CONTINUING ABUSE
[/FONT]
While 85% of the respondents now live apart from their abusive partners, 90% stated
they were still being abused. The abuse, they said, is now being perpetrated through their
children and through the legal system. This is highlighted by the fact that 85% of the
respondents experience serious problems with access to their children and find it
impossible to have their situations taken seriously in the courts.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
DESIRED CHANGES
[/FONT]
In commenting on changes they would like to see take place, the men were almost
unanimous in saying they want society as a whole to [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]become aware of the reality of the
male victim and to take this issue seriously. [/FONT]They also stated that they need appropriate
support services, including [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]sheltered accommodation for themselves and their children
when they need to leave particularly violent incidents. [/FONT]The men also want personnel in
the Gardai, legal system, state and social services to receive, [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]gender sensitive training in
the area of domestic violence. [/FONT]Finally, they want the issue of unsubstantiated allegations
and what they describe as the ease with which barring orders are obtained addressed by
the government. The men surveyed feel strongly that female perpetrators of domestic
violence too easily obtain barring orders and are never penalised when allegations they

make are proven to be mischievous, vindictive and malevolent.

Dr Galen

iptba wrote: »

CDfm, I'd be interested in "anecdotal information" or "qualitative information" if you don't have "factual stuff".

If you have a proper debate, and maybe even inspire some changed attitudes, then the my friend told me about his cousins mate doesn't wash. There is most definitely a role for the qualitative evidence, as there is in most sociological debate, but the important word there is evidence.

Dr Galen

so do we have a justice system that denies men the right to follow through on accusations of domestic abuse? Are there examples of best practice from other countries that we could model on?

iptba

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

If you have a proper debate, and maybe even inspire some changed attitudes, then the my friend told me about his cousins mate doesn't wash.

I'm not sure what you are saying? e.g. Is the "you" me?

Also, you are entitled to request the sort of information you are interested in but, as long as you were not speaking with your moderator's hat on, I can also request other information as well. Sometimes a type of brainstorming might occur or examples could be analysed for patterns rather than being "pre-analysed". There isn't necessarily a lot of research that has been done in this area in Ireland.

Dr Galen

I mean it in the You plural form. You as in a general term. Not directed at iptba directly.

What I mean is that we can talk anecdotes and stories all day long, but if we really want to discuss whats at the heart of the matter, and have some influence on those reading, then we need (imho) to delve deeper into the real issues, and back up our assertions with some evidence, as CDfm has attempted to do a few posts back.

I'll give an example. On this forum we have a circumcision thread. Its been mentioned many times by posters that after reading that thread, they went off to seek medical advice, or that by reading it, they felt more comfortable going into the operation. A small thing maybe, but still a a victory. We have over 650 posts in that thread, but more importantly 61.5 thousand thread views. If even half a percent of those views made a positive impact on the reader, then thats a good thing. Without seeming too worthy about it, we have an opportunity to do something just as good with these discussions. I think we'd agree that this is a good thing and furthers the cause of mens rights. We thus owe to to the people reading our posts to base our points on something solid and real.

iptba

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

I mean it in the You plural form. You as in a general term. Not directed at iptba directly.

What I mean is that we can talk anecdotes and stories all day long, but if we really want to discuss whats at the heart of the matter, and have some influence on those reading, then we need (imho) to delve deeper into the real issues, and back up our assertions with some evidence, as CDfm has attempted to do a few posts back.

I'll give an example. On this forum we have a circumcision thread. Its been mentioned many times by posters that after reading that thread, they went off to seek medical advice, or that by reading it, they felt more comfortable going into the operation. A small thing maybe, but still a a victory. We have over 650 posts in that thread, but more importantly 61.5 thousand thread views. If even half a percent of those views made a positive impact on the reader, then thats a good thing. Without seeming too worthy about it, we have an opportunity to do something just as good with these discussions. I think we'd agree that this is a good thing and furthers the cause of mens rights. We thus owe to to the people reading our posts to base our points on something solid and real.

Ok, seems reasonable as long as individual anecdotes (which might be called "qualitative information") are ok. People can still criticise them.

Little point: not sure I like the term debate in this context. Discussion seems better.

CDfm

iptba wrote: »

I'm not sure what you are saying? e.g. Is the "you" me?

Lots of debates get derailed because it gets into social theory territory - so its best to stick to facts and not anecdotal. You would be surprised who agrees with you.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

Lots of debates get derailed because it gets into social theory territory - so its best to stick to facts and not anecdotal. You would be surprised who agrees with you.

Percentages certainly have a value. But if somebody came on here and had an indepth story to tell, I'd also find that interesting.

CDfm

iptba wrote: »

Percentages certainly have a value. But if somebody came on here and had an indepth story to tell, I'd also find that interesting.

Probably -but some of the ladies posting know guys in the situation and will have posted Amen details in PI as I will have posted Womens Aid details there too.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

Probably -but some of the ladies posting know guys in the situation and will have posted Amen details in PI as I will have posted Womens Aid details there too.

Not 100% sure if I'm reading you correctly but I wasn't just specifying the individual themselves or current cases. I would be interested in people talking about their friends for examples. As we had earlier in this thread. I thought this thread was interesting even though for most of it, the factual information wasn't percentages or even from official sources. Or are you saying that Amen has analysed most of the useful information from boards.ie members already and if anyone has any more they could spend their energy contacting them?

Anyway, don't want to distract this thread too much.

CDfm

From what I can tell its a very small outfit with limited funding.

So they will not be tracking boards but the boardsies will.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

From what I can tell its a very small outfit with limited funding.

So they will not be tracking boards but the boardsies will.

Don't want to get distracted too much but still not sure what you are saying? Are you saying that if somebody speaks, they will probably just be repeating themselves and people will have heard their story before somewhere on boards.ie (such as in PI)? There are presumably new people joining boards.ie all the time with new experiences to share and also if it was somebody's friend who had the experience, existing members of the GC might not have mentioned it, especially on another section of the site which they might not visit much if at all.

CDfm

People with an interest in the area of domestic violence, like Thaed, will have come across it.

Many posters on boards wont be aware that it is as common place as it is.

Someone like MM its new ground for him but most people are open minded and when they see the thread will go -yeah I know someone like that must show them the thread or whatever. Or someone reading the thread could be in the situation.

So threads like this are good.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

People with an interest in the area of domestic violence, like Thaed, will have come across it.

Many posters on boards wont be aware that it is as common place as it is.

Someone like MM its new ground for him but most people are open minded and when they see the thread will go -yeah I know someone like that must show them the thread or whatever. Or someone reading the thread could be in the situation.

So threads like this are good.

Thanks for that. I still don't understand message 136 and then 138 but it's not important. Main thing is for the discussion to continue.

CDfm

i have seen some stats saying around a third of dv violence is mutual ie 2 people tearing clumps of each other.

the nature of couple violence is that same sex relationships get forgotten about and dv is also a family issue

so a woman thumoping her girlfriend, or mother or sister or daughter is just as real. No difference imho.

a friends son refers to his mother a the nasty ho and she had his dog put down a couple of years ago.

his sister is a walking disaster who bumped into my son at college and is not speaking to my son because we are friends with her Da. she is very moody and self centred and not very likeable of course knowing this the first question no 1 son asks when they meet up is "how is your Da" . Sweet.

Nevyn

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

so do we have a justice system that denies men the right to follow through on accusations of domestic abuse? Are there examples of best practice from other countries that we could model on?

I don't think it does.
I think it's the lack of support and information and fear of what people will say and not being taken seriously and the horrible mindset that a victim of repeat abuse finds themselves in. Victims can be so brow beaten or in denial that well you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink when it comes to supporting someone going to the courts.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/problems-in-marriages-and-relationships/barring_safety_and_protection_orders

Information

Under the Domestic Violence Act, 1996, Gardai (the Irish police force) have the power to arrest and prosecute a violent family member. Under the law there are two main kinds of protection available, a safety order and a barring order.

A safety order is an order of the court which prohibits the violent person from further violence or threats of violence. It does not oblige the person to leave the family home. If the person lives apart from you it prohibits them from watching or being near your home. A total of 1,221 applications for safety orders were granted through the District Courts in Ireland in 2006. The highest proportion of safety orders granted (693) was against the spouse of the applicant.

A barring order is an order which requires the person to leave the family home. A total of 1,357 barring orders were granted by the District Courts in 2006. Again, the highest proportion of barring orders granted, (727) related to the spouse of the applicant.

To get a barring order or a safety order you must attend a court hearing. While you are waiting for the court to hear your application, the court can give you an immediate order called a protection order. The protection order has the same effect as a safety order. In exceptional circumstances the court can grant an interim barring order. This is an immediate order, requiring the violent person to leave the family home. A total of 2,845 protection orders and 544 interim barring orders were granted by the District Courts in 2006. Further information on the number of orders granted is available in the Courts Service Annual Report.

A safety order can last up to 5 years and a barring order up to 3 years. These orders can be renewed by applying for a further order before the previous one has expired.
Rules

If you are married, and can show the court that your spouse is violent in any way towards you or the children, you can get an order against him/her no matter how long you have lived together and even if he/she owns most or all of the house.

If you are not married, you can get an order against a violent partner if:

* you have been living together for a prescribed length of time (six out of the previous twelve months for a safety order, or six out of nine months for a barring order)
* he/she does not own most or all of the house you are living in.

Section 6 of the Domestic Violence Act 1996 sets out that the Health Service Executive (HSE) may seek a Barring Order against a violent adult on behalf of a child, whether or not that violent adult is married to the child's parent. The HSE was granted 4 barring orders against violent adults in 2005. No barring orders were granted to the HSE in 2006.

A parent can apply for protection against domestic violence by their own child if the child is over 18. In fact, 200 barring orders and 86 interim barring orders were granted to parents against children in 2006.

Others living together can also apply, for example, two relatives living together could be covered.
Penalties for offences

The law in Ireland strictly provides that anyone who contravenes a safety, barring (or interim barring) or protection order is guilty of an offence. Furthermore, if someone prevents you or your dependents from entering or permission to remain in a place to which the order relates (while the barring or interim barring order is in effect), they are also guilty of an offence.

The above offences under the Domestic Violence Act 1996 are punishable by a fine of 1,904.61 euro and or, a prison term of 12 months. These penalties are set down in Section 17 of the Domestic Violence Act, 1996. Statistics from an Garda Síochána show that 1,188 breaches of orders were recorded in 2005.
Support

If you are concerned about violence in your home, you should contact your local Garda Station. Members of the Gardai are specially trained to deal with these situations and can offer advice, information and assistance.

Your local Citizens Information Centre can give you information about organisations that will provide you with support. For example, two such organisations are Women's Aid and Amen.

Women's Aid is a voluntary organisation providing support and information to women and their children who are being physically, emotionally and sexually abused in their own homes. If you are a woman living in a violent situation, you should contact the Women's Aid helpline on 1800 341900.

Amen is a voluntary organisation which provides a confidential helpline, a support service and information for male victims of domestic abuse. You can contact Amen by phone at (046) 902 3718.

Further information on domestic and sexual violence as well as information on local and national support services is available on the website of Cosc - The National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence.
How to apply

To apply for a barring order or a safety order you must go to your local District Court Office. If you live in the Dublin Area you must go to the Dublin District Family Law Office (see 'Where to apply' below). However, you can go to the Dublin District Court Offices in Swords or Dun Laoghaire if they are closer to you.

When you get to the District Court Office, the District Court Clerk will help you to fill out the correct form.

If you are applying for a barring order or a safety order the court clerk will arrange a court date for a court hearing. You will be given your summons for the court hearing at the time of your application. A summons will be sent to the respondent by ordinary post. The respondent is the person you need to be protected from or want barred from your home.

While you are waiting to go to court to get your barring order or safety order, you can get a protection order or an interim barring order immediately. If you want a protection order or an interim barring order the District Court Judge will hear your case on the day you make your application for a barring order or safety order.

If you do not want a protection order or an interim barring order immediately, you can seek one at any time before your case is heard for a barring or safety order.

When you get your barring order, safety order, protection order or interim barring order you show it to the Gardai in your local Garda Station. Do not give them your order (you can allow them to take a photocopy). A copy of your order will be sent to the Superintendent of your local Garda Station by registered post the following day.

A safety order, barring order, interim barring order or protection order takes effect from the time the respondent is notified of the order. This can be done verbally, together with the production of a copy of the order. If the respondent is in court when the order is made the respondent is considered to be notified. A copy of the order will be sent to the respondent by ordinary post. In some cases, the Judge may direct the Gardai 'to serve' the order on the respondent . This means the Gardai will hand the order directly to the respondent.
Where To Apply

To find the contact details for your local District Court Office you should contact:

Courts Service: 15-24 Phoenix Street North, Smithfield, Dublin 7, IRELAND
Tel: +353 (0)1 8886000 Homepage: http://www.courts.ie
Wheelchair Access:

Women's Aid Everton House 47 Old Cabra Road Dublin 7 Ireland
Tel: +353 (0)1 8684721 Fax: +353 (0)1 8684722
Homepage: http://www.womensaid.ie Email: info@womensaid.ie
Wheelchair Access

Amen: 9-10 Academy Street, Navan, Meath, Ireland
Tel:+353 (0)46 9023718 Fax: +353 (0)46 9023718
Homepage:http://www.amen.ie Email:amen@iol.ie
Wheelchair Access:

Dublin District Family Law Office Ground floor Dolphin House, East Essex Street Dublin 2
Tel: +353 (0)1 8886348 Fax:+353 (0)1 6717903
Homepage: http://www.courts.ie/offices.nsf/6501643ba9c14a9680256e43003d68a4/03ba94ff0ad804d680256e45005861bd?OpenDocument Email: districtfamilylaw@courts.ie
Wheelchair Access:

Cosc – The National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence
Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform
2nd Floor Montague Court Montague Street Dublin 2
Tel: (01) 476 8680 Fax: (01) 476 8619
Homepage: http://www.cosc.ie/
Email: cosc@justice.ie

Support services are listed for both men and women.

and there is a national body finally rather then charities and non for profit organisations alone.

http://www.cosc.ie/en/COSC/Pages/WP08000082

About Cosc

Cosc is the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence. We were established in June 2007. Cosc is an Irish word and means "to stop" or "to prevent". Cosc was established in June 2007 with the key responsibility to ensure the delivery of a well co-ordinated "whole of government" response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The work of Cosc covers issues relating to domestic and sexual violence against women and men, including older people in the community.
Our Vision Statement

Co-ordinated and effective whole of Government action on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence.
Our Mission

To improve the delivery of a well co-ordinated effective response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence in Ireland. We do this by facilitating action for the prevention of these crimes, the protection of victims and the provision of services for those affected.
Our Work

Cosc supports and works closely with service providers (both state and non-governmental organisations) who support victims and treat perpetrators. This work includes

* Raising awareness about the level and impact of these crimes and of local services that are available for victims
* Developing strategies for preventing and dealing with these crimes in line with best international practice
* Further developing standards for service delivery and for training programmes
* Putting in place positive actions which work with perpetrators
* Facilitating the implementation of internationally established best practice throughout the sector
* Working with relevant bodies to put together a body of research which will inform future policy directions
* Representing Ireland at international fora, such as European Union (EU) meetings.
* Propose legislative and policy change.

CDfm

There is a huge difference between the law and practice.

The system makes a huge pretence of being equal and there are lots of people who would like to see the in camera rule scrapped

i have a friend who was in the courts before Xmas and whose business had closed due to the recession.

He was ordered to pay 200 euro a week maintenance and the judge did not want to hear that his partner had threatened to harm their 2 toddlers

He felt the judge just did not want to hear anything

Another friend told us that even though he has a custody agreement alowing him take his daughter abroad to france on holiday he ex will never agree dates and last summer he paid 4000 on legal fees to take her to brittany for a few weeks.

Nevyn

A judge hearing a maintenance case can only deal with the fact about maintenance not anything else, that father should make a complaint under the child protection act and look for a safety order for the child if it's needed.

The law system is hard for anyone having to resort to it, it's a hard thing to navigate and understand and it can take someone explaining it or going with you as an advocate, the system as imperfect as it is, can be made to work but a lot men aren't using it, so then it comes back to why?

Oh and it's not all men who are reluctant, I've been there for three men in he last 10 years and helped them get safety orders which were against a wife, boyfriend and parents.

CDfm

Thaedydal wrote: »

A judge hearing a maintenance case can only deal with the fact about maintenance not anything else, that father should make a complaint under the child protection act and look for a safety order for the child if it's needed.

he was represented by a solicitor and even though the applications had been made the judge only handled the maintainence issue

The law system is hard for anyone having to resort to it, it's a hard thing to navigate and understand and it can take someone explaining it or going with you as an advocate, the system as imperfect as it is, can be made to work but a lot men aren't using it, so then it comes back to why?

From experience -its a nightmare. i am out of it now given my childrens age. I dont think its extreme to say that when you get proper enforcement in the system such as jail sentences for breach of custody orders etc like you do in parts of the USA (california). Its a merry go round.

Oh and it's not all men who are reluctant, I've been there for three men in he last 10 years and helped them get safety orders which were against a wife, boyfriend and parents.

Ah but your exceptional

iptba

Thaedydal wrote: »

Cosc is the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence. We were established in June 2007. Cosc is an Irish word and means "to stop" or "to prevent". Cosc was established in June 2007 with the key responsibility to ensure the delivery of a well co-ordinated "whole of government" response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence.

What is "gender-based violence"? Is it a code-word for "man on female" violence and "female on male" violence seen as something else?

iptba

Thaedydal wrote: »

A judge hearing a maintenance case can only deal with the fact about maintenance not anything else, that father should make a complaint under the child protection act and look for a safety order for the child if it's needed.

The law system is hard for anyone having to resort to it, it's a hard thing to navigate and understand and it can take someone explaining it or going with you as an advocate, the system as imperfect as it is, can be made to work but a lot men aren't using it, so then it comes back to why?

Yes, this is a valid question.

But when women were not coming forward to complain about a lot of domestic violence in the past, was the only answer to say that the system is there and its their fault if they don't use it. Or were broader issues also looked at e.g. attitudes in society, the system, etc.

CDfm

iptba wrote: »

What is "gender-based violence"? Is it a code-word for "man on female" violence and "female on male" violence seen as something else?

Its a gender neutral term thats pc.

Lets see if it isn't the same dog with different hair.

iptba wrote: »

Yes, this is a valid question.

But when women were not coming forward to complain about a lot of domestic violence in the past, was the only answer to say that the system is there and its their fault if they don't use it. Or were broader issues also looked at e.g. attitudes in society, the system, etc.

My own view is we blame society for loads. The system is f****** up because people buy in to this sociological and psychological BS. Get rid of that and have clear laws, policies, enforcement procedures and practices and kick the interest groups out. A straight and honest system where people have rights and know where they stand is overdue.

Nevyn

iptba wrote: »

Yes, this is a valid question.

But when women were not coming forward to complain about a lot of domestic violence in the past, was the only answer to say that the system is there and its their fault if they don't use it. Or were broader issues also looked at e.g. attitudes in society, the system, etc.

When the law was changed to cover domestic abuse it was women who rallied around other women and helped to support each other and pushed to changed the system which was over 30 years ago when a lot of those women were in pretty powerless situations being stay at home mothers.

The majority of the info out there on partner abuse was brought to light as more and more women came forward. I know growing up I saw my grandmother helping a neighbor who was in the kitchen with a black eye, giving tea and counsel over the kitchen table, saying 'you don't have to have to put up with any more Maire, there's laws against it now' and the questions of what would she do and where would she go and how she'd cope with money and how the kids would be.

And now the same thing needs to be done for men, as the law applies to both but they need help, support and encouragement and there needs to be awareness to make that happen and for people to know that there is help and support.

Men need to talk about it and talk about it to other men, so that another man doesn't say "what type of man are you, so home and sort her out".

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

My own view is we blame society for loads. The system is f****** up because people buy in to this sociological and psychological BS. Get rid of that and have clear laws, policies, enforcement procedures and practices and kick the interest groups out. A straight and honest system where people have rights and know where they stand is overdue.

I agree to an extent.

But we have already found in the initial video and in the suggestions of this thread that some/a lot of people think sometimes men "deserve" to suffer violence from a female partner.

So if such attitudes continue in the public (incl. judges), just having systems may not change much.

Or course, if the approach was (which I think is useful in a lot of "gender areas") if a judge (or whoever asks themselves), "how would I treat this situation if the genders were reversed", we might get a fairer system. Which may be sort of what you are suggesting.