Breakfast with Ray (Foley) and Jay [Cork's Red FM, 6am-9am]

IUA14

Yeah fair point actually Soc and true enough seems to be a case of status quo for 98FM...seems Foley lost 1,000 with the caveat that the show is only measured from 7-10. Now 3,000 listeners behind 2FM in Dublin, 4,000 behind Dempsey and 8,000 behind Spin.

Not too surprised since any marketing initiatives from 98FM such as the "Reset Your Preset" feature only began in September so wont see any positives from that until the next book, especially with the big push I expect they will give The Naked Breakfast this year.

Also they are down 1,000 book-on-book not 4,000...it is that figure year-on-year but they lost 3,000 of that last book so very little movement this time around. In relation to the beaten by Spin being embarrassing thing...Spin have 41,000 more listeners than 98FM as a station so not surprising really.

chilloutrelax

IUA14 wrote: »

Yeah fair point actually Soc and true enough seems to be a case of status quo for 98FM...seems Foley lost 1,000 with the caveat that the show is only measured from 7-10. Now 3,000 listeners behind 2FM in Dublin, 4,000 behind Dempsey and 8,000 behind Spin.

Not too surprised since any marketing initiatives from 98FM such as the "Reset Your Preset" feature only began in September so wont see any positives from that until the next book, especially with the big push I expect they will give The Naked Breakfast this year.

Also they are down 1,000 book-on-book not 4,000...it is that figure year-on-year but they lost 3,000 of that last book so very little movement this time around. In relation to the beaten by Spin being embarrassing thing...Spin have 41,000 more listeners than 98FM as a station so not surprising really.

Corrected the figures in my post above, however this doesn't change the underlying trend.

The reaction to every JNLR book for Foley on this thread is - we need to see the impact of this or that promotion or change in the next book. Its always the same, down or no significant change.

I still maintain that it is embarrassing as they have much higher salaries, much more experience, much high marketing budget and the list goes on compared to the Spin crew (btw fair play to them!).

IUA14

I agree, the trend is clear, in the last year they have lost 4,000 and that is from the small base they are already operating from. 98FM have A LOT of work to do. Barry Dunne gained 5,000 listeners the past year meaning he is the biggest show on the station...10,000 ahead of Foley which is certainly not good enough.

Problem is I don't know what 98FM can do...and I don't think they know either. One thing that is said time and time again on here is maybe try to be different than every other breakfast show they are competing against and see if it works...they don't have much to lose so maybe move away from the highly formatted show they have the lads doing and let them do what they used to be so good at...play music and have a bit of fun between the songs instead of competition, song, competition, gossip etc etc.

wnolan1992

Disappointing that they're down again.

While I would be keen to see the full impact of adding Muireann (won't be seen for another book at least, proper trend in two to three books time), being honest, if I were 98, I'd be weighing up my options right about now. 3 years of investment in the show (salary, sizable marketing campaigns, etc) anvery little, if anything, to show for it is worrying.

That said, Breakfast Republic are a case study in how a show can appear to be an utter failure for a long time before rising spectacularly, so maybe in year's time, we'll all be eating our words.

chilloutrelax

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Disappointing that they're down again.

While I would be keen to see the full impact of adding Muireann (won't be seen for another book at least, proper trend in two to three books time), being honest, if I were 98, I'd be weighing up my options right about now. 3 years of investment in the show (salary, sizable marketing campaigns, etc) anvery little, if anything, to show for it is worrying.

That said, Breakfast Republic are a case study in how a show can appear to be an utter failure for a long time before rising spectacularly, so maybe in year's time, we'll all be eating our words.

Breakfast republic aren't around that long really and the got another 75 minutes added to their show, hence the big rise. Maybe they could do something with foley, start at 7 and finish at 11.

I also believe that Dublin talks with Adrian Kennedy is having a significant negative affect on the show. There is a significant drop of listeners between 9.30 and 10 before Dublin talks, the audiences couldn't be more different. Bizarre stuff really.

chilloutrelax

If I was running 98fm and had to keep the presenters I would do the following:
1. Rename the show - the name Ray Foley means nothing in Dublin. The station branding and show need to be bigger!
2. Change the time from 7 to 11.
3. More music focus
4. No competitions or limit significantly
5. No more talking to news or sports readers - need to be all about the presenters. No more squeaky news readers also.
6. Drop the ego
7. No comedy or entertainment inserts

flangemeistro

chilloutrelax wrote: »

If I was running 98fm and had to keep the presenters I would do the following:
1. Rename the show - the name Ray Foley means nothing in Dublin. The station branding and show need to be bigger!
2. Change the time from 7 to 11.
3. More music focus
4. No competitions or limit significantly
5. No more talking to news or sports readers - need to be all about the presenters. No more squeaky news readers also.
6. Drop the ego
7. No comedy or entertainment inserts

You should try Radio 1.

chilloutrelax

flangemeistro wrote: »

You should try Radio 1.

I do

They are mearly suggestions as they really need a radical shift. I'm suggesting that the show becomes more presenter and music driven and less formatted. From a marketing positioning this maLes sense as it differentiates them in a busy market.

Is the current approach working???

IUA14

Yeah I agree that there needs to be changes but perhaps going too far there. The show name I don't think is a massive issue...I don't think it would make a huge difference, The Morning Crew was their predecessor right?

Also for the timing of the show 7 to 11 wouldn't make sense since the station wants people going to work and commuting, those listening at 11 would most likely be an older audience or a younger audience and with Radio 1 and Spin targeting those they wouldn't have a chance.

I agree with the music and competitions points but the rest I disagree with. If you want music and no talking listen to Spotify. If you listen to Foley since the move the ego is non-existent...unfortunately for some of us who liked his personality.

chilloutrelax

IUA14 wrote: »

Yeah I agree that there needs to be changes but perhaps going too far there. The show name I don't think is a massive issue...I don't think it would make a huge difference, The Morning Crew was their predecessor right?

Also for the timing of the show 7 to 11 wouldn't make sense since the station wants people going to work and commuting, those listening at 11 would most likely be an older audience or a younger audience and with Radio 1 and Spin targeting those they wouldn't have a chance.

I agree with the music and competitions points but the rest I disagree with. If you want music and no talking listen to Spotify. If you listen to Foley since the move the ego is non-existent...unfortunately for some of us who liked his personality.

I don't want to be disrespectful but branding is everything in this sector and the name of the show is a huge factor, e.g. The strawberry alarm clock, morning Ireland, liveline, full charged, the zoo crew, fm104 phoneshow, the right hook etc etc the list goes on and in many cases the presenters are replaceable but the brand lives on. Ray Foley is not a strong brand - evidently.

The suggestion to go to 11 may be an opportunity to do something different, I like the idea of breakfast type show while working.i recognise that it's not usual but I think 98fm management need to make changes. I'd also move Dublin talks as it doesn't connect very well with breakfast.

soc160

chilloutrelax wrote: »

They are down to 37k (down 4k year on year, 1k book on book) - 8k behind Spin, 49k behind 104. Nothing they do seems to have an impact! Being better by Spin by that margin is quite embarrassing…..where is this going?

chilloutrelax wrote: »

I don't want to be disrespectful but branding is everything in this sector and the name of the show is a huge factor, e.g. The strawberry alarm clock, morning Ireland, liveline, full charged, the zoo crew, fm104 phoneshow, the right hook etc etc the list goes on and in many cases the presenters are replaceable but the brand lives on. Ray Foley is not a strong brand - evidently.

The suggestion to go to 11 may be an opportunity to do something different, I like the idea of breakfast type show while working.i recognise that it's not usual but I think 98fm management need to make changes. I'd also move Dublin talks as it doesn't connect very well with breakfast.

Not exactly sure why I was quoted in the first post, but ye another bad book and nothing is making an impact, although you could argue that anything they do is having a negative impact. I remember about 2 books ago they went up and talked about it on air, they wern't putting too much stock in it, strange from a guy who trumpeted the figures on his old show.

I actually wrote in the JNLR thread that Spin are an example of a froward thinking station, the only one really engaging the young listeners, you could say FM104 are too with their youth figures, in fact i'd say FM104 have a goof following for really young kids which converts their parents too it, mainly down to the Starwberry Alarm Clock. No shame being behind Spin while Spin sit ahead in general ratings but being so far behind FM104 is damming, the gap between them is greater than there overall listenership which kind of puts it in to perspective how poor those figures are, no hope in clawing that gap back for another few years, whether that's with Ray or without.

The point about Dublin Talks affecting them is good, figures will generally dip after 9 anyway when people get to work, I would have no interest listening to a talk show if I worked in an office, too hard to follow that could be just me though, 33k isn't bad for a talk show, just not one at mid morning, the competition for talk radio then is huge, and that's if you don't want music so the fragmentation of audiences is even bigger then. So assuming Ray has 37k and Dublin Talks has 33k where are those 4k going and why?

A final point on the show, i have outlined reasons why it's not as strong as it could be before, but one other thing that bugs me about it is the self deprecating and percieved laziness. Often they talk about something, then talk themselves down or slag off other presenters on the station, Ray had a habit of being late, seems to have improved, they barely do anything from 9 onwards anymore (which is udnerstandable given the lack of listeners) and the show is classed as 7 - 10 now in the JNLR's despite the best bit happening at half 6. Lately they have added features, but even some of the pre-recorded interivews are just Muireann, possibly not great planning I dont know the ins and outs but why bother doing it if you cant record it. Also, the Movie reviews are tired and lazy really, seems a strange feature to have on breakfast show and adds no value to the show.

chilloutrelax

soc160 wrote: »

The point about Dublin Talks affecting them is good, figures will generally dip after 9 anyway when people get to work, I would have no interest listening to a talk show if I worked in an office, too hard to follow that could be just me though, 33k isn't bad for a talk show, just not one at mid morning, the competition for talk radio then is huge, and that's if you don't want music so the fragmentation of audiences is even bigger then. So assuming Ray has 37k and Dublin Talks has 33k where are those 4k going and why?

I agree, most stations have a drop in the 9am hour, however if you examine the 98fm quarter hour figures there is a major drop from 9.30 to 10am. I really think it's Dublin talks causing this as the listener profile is so different.

I think the 33k for Dublin talks is very dissapointing and I imagine they were hoping for a much bigger impact from AK. The 4k you refer to as the gap between the two shows isn't a fair comparison as Dublin talks is only half the length. Listener trends are measured by the quarter hour and can make a better compassion for shows of different lengths.

IUA14

Of course branding is important, and perhaps that is something they need to look at...one would assume that 98FM would be proactive to see how their branding is perceived but maybe not.

With regards to the timing of the show...the best bit is 6.30 to 7 as I think most would agree, as you said that doesn't even get measured in the JNLR's so why even have it? Make the show 7-10 because a 4 hour show is too much and that is why I think you have all those competitions and weaker features, they need to fill. You have to remember they came from what was essentially a 2 hour show when you take out news and sport on Today FM and now do double the show. The lads have said before on podcasts that they have no time...they do the four hour show and then they have meeting after meeting...as most of us know they hate meetings and find them useless so what is the point? Work to your presenters strengths and not what you feel is the only breakfast show format in existence.

If the lads had a 3 hour show and that best bit of the show was 7 to 7.30, when one would assume most people are tuning in or getting up then they have a good start that people actually hear. Perhaps 98FM having a more defined "Early Breakfast" show from 5 to 7 as a natural lead into Foley might help? I agree Dublin Talks does not help but what do you do with it because I guarantee it is staying around given the money they had to pay to get AK and JD?

I want the lads to succeed, and I'm sure most people here are the same, but how long are 98FM going to keep going with the same format that is not working for the lads and not working for the listeners? It doesn't make sense. What is worrying for them as a station is that nothing other than Barry Dunne is working figure wise...Foley is the next best-rated show so I can't see axing the show as the tonic for all the rest of the shows. Change the format and give it a real chance to succeed when not stifled by incessant competitions, questionable playlisting, and weak "bits", if it doesn't work then okay move on.

soc160

IUA14 wrote: »

Of course branding is important, and perhaps that is something they need to look at...one would assume that 98FM would be proactive to see how their branding is perceived but maybe not.

With regards to the timing of the show...the best bit is 6.30 to 7 as I think most would agree, as you said that doesn't even get measured in the JNLR's so why even have it? Make the show 7-10 because a 4 hour show is too much and that is why I think you have all those competitions and weaker features, they need to fill. You have to remember they came from what was essentially a 2 hour show when you take out news and sport on Today FM and now do double the show. The lads have said before on podcasts that they have no time...they do the four hour show and then they have meeting after meeting...as most of us know they hate meetings and find them useless so what is the point? Work to your presenters strengths and not what you feel is the only breakfast show format in existence.

If the lads had a 3 hour show and that best bit of the show was 7 to 7.30, when one would assume most people are tuning in or getting up then they have a good start that people actually hear. Perhaps 98FM having a more defined "Early Breakfast" show from 5 to 7 as a natural lead into Foley might help? I agree Dublin Talks does not help but what do you do with it because I guarantee it is staying around given the money they had to pay to get AK and JD?

I want the lads to succeed, and I'm sure most people here are the same, but how long are 98FM going to keep going with the same format that is not working for the lads and not working for the listeners? It doesn't make sense. What is worrying for them as a station is that nothing other than Barry Dunne is working figure wise...Foley is the next best-rated show so I can't see axing the show as the tonic for all the rest of the shows. Change the format and give it a real chance to succeed when not stifled by incessant competitions, questionable playlisting, and weak "bits", if it doesn't work then okay move on.

Alot of that is mandatory on commercial radio, competitions invoice sponsorship, generate news and probably earn money somewhere along the way, most stations do it.

We hear alot of that meeting talk but what the hell are they about and how can you not work around them, if you have a guest lined up then the meeting can wait. I just get a feeling it's about getting out of there as soon as possible after the show. Recording podcast bits during the show to save time, they are under no obligation to that but it is good, however why not just do it properly afterwards? Obviously you don't want to sit behind a keyboard telling people how to do their jobs, I do think ray is a good broadcaster and all that and maybe it really isn't a good fit. Making it 7-10 would make it more manageable, but you imagine they don't want other shows getting the jump on them from 6.


Ye, I agree Dublin Talks will stay, figures wise it's on par with the FM104 phoneshoq I think, problem is it should be bigger for that timeslot. Lads won't go back to nights and they have spent so much cementing them there, it's been over a year with them so they'll give it more time to try and capture and audience, personally I don't think the audience is there with so much competition. Consistentcy might help build the brand, might also ruin it but they usually chop and change.

wnolan1992

I don't think they should get rid of competitions.

I do think they need to cut down on the sheer amount of them though.

Like, they have Secret Sound, Eh Yeah OK and Free Money Minute every morning, almost always a week long giveaway thing on their show, then sometimes a daily prize, and sometimes a station wide promo. At times it feels like they're just going from competition to competition.

I mean, I get the thinking behind it, but as someone who doesn't enter radio competitions often, it's just not fun to listen to when there's so many.

soc160

chilloutrelax wrote: »

I agree, most stations have a drop in the 9am hour, however if you examine the 98fm quarter hour figures there is a major drop from 9.30 to 10am. I really think it's Dublin talks causing this as the listener profile is so different.

I think the 33k for Dublin talks is very dissapointing and I imagine they were hoping for a much bigger impact from AK. The 4k you refer to as the gap between the two shows isn't a fair comparison as Dublin talks is only half the length. Listener trends are measured by the quarter hour and can make a better compassion for shows of different lengths.

Are there quarter hour figures available?

chilloutrelax

soc160 wrote: »

Are there quarter hour figures available?

This link has a graph with the main Dublin station quarter hour figures

http://pix.ie/blue4ever/3812234

soc160

chilloutrelax wrote: »

This link has a graph with the main Dublin station quarter hour figures

http://pix.ie/blue4ever/3812234

Deadly, that off ilevel or your own?


Massive leap for 104 at 8am. Poor figures for 98 in drive too, looking at that maybe Dublin Talks isn't doing as bad as I thought?

IUA14

Yeah, Dublin Talks and Barry Dunne until 2pm seem solid based on that...really poor from 8 to 10 and 2 to 6.

soc160

IUA14 wrote: »

Yeah, Dublin Talks and Barry Dunne until 2pm seem solid based on that...really poor from 8 to 10 and 2 to 6.

Ye, I'm confusing myself now writing in the forums about 98, maybe it just looks better because the other shows either show are suffering?

Anyway, this is the Ray Foley thread, as much as these books interest me, I don't want to see him leave unless he gets another gig on radio really, I like listening to the show. Wonder would they juggle the schedule and move him off breakfast for a more music based show.

Synode

Everyone off today

Anton on Today FM too

Loughc

Synode wrote: »

Everyone off today

Anton on Today FM too

Are they off for the week or just today?

Synode

Loughc wrote: »

Are they off for the week or just today?

No idea. I've switched over to Today FM. Macloone is decent enough

Loughc

Confirmed on Twitter they're on a week off, shame that. It seems like they've just been off recently for a week.

The worst thing about them being off is there's no podcasts to download the podcasts make my commute so much quicker!

Roll on Naked Breakfast 2, should be a good show.

donspeekinglesh

Would it not have made more sense for them to have taken last week off, when a lot of people were on mid-term?

Loughc

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Would it not have made more sense for them to have taken last week off, when a lot of people were on mid-term?

I was thinking that too, but last week was a short week anyway with the Bank Holiday. Thry may be looking to stretch out the holidays a bit as I imagine that'll be the end of them until the Christmas break.

IUA14

I never get the radio holidays, seems a lot of people are off air this week actually. I'm not surprised the lads are because on Friday he mentioned that Saturday was his last day on Saturday AM and he was looking forward to a week off from everything. Who knows maybe they will return with a new game plan!?

Who's filling in for them?

Loughc

Andy Clarke is filling in for him. He's ok seems to rely on music to get him through and lacks the natural banter and wit Ray has.

I doubt they're going to return with a new game plan. When they do return they'll be busy heavily promoting The Naked Breakfast 2.

IUA14

Looking forward to The Naked Breakfast, really enjoyed listening to it last time out and they really shine when doing that kind of live show I think.

Loughc

IUA14 wrote: »

Looking forward to The Naked Breakfast, really enjoyed listening to it last time out and they really shine when doing that kind of live show I think.

Yea, I agree. When the usual constraints of competition, promo, etc are off them they really shine. And Ray seems to revel having an audience. Hopefully tickets are easy to comeby. They should be with it being in the RDS this year.