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Speedy Gonzales or Slowpoke Rodriguez?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Monday 7/1/13: ----
    Tues: 21 k fartlek
    wed: am 13.5k pm 12.5k
    thurs:am 13.5k pm 12.5k
    Friday am 18k

    Not a bad week.
    missed monday: feel asleep
    New shower facilities at work mean i can comfortable run in and out now which will solve my mileage trouble.
    12.5 k home.
    Dublin masters on sunday.
    Mileage should end up around the 140k mark which is right direction.

    weekly total 101.5 yearly 199


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Saturday: 10k inc 10 minutes hard (3:19 pace on grass downwind).

    Sunday 14k (inc 6k Race Dublin masters 8th palce).

    Monday: Rest

    Tuesday AM: 13.5k recovery pace

    Saturdays blowout was intended to force some leg turnover into the legs for Sundays race. The effort was a bit hard. Almost as tired as a shortish race after..and hanging on at end, but a little under race effort, just a little.

    Arrived early with family. As wife and baba headed for playground i sussed out where course was.
    At eastern side of St Annes park. Pleasantly surprised to see that a lot of the course 50% was on hard forest floor either side of tarmac paths.
    Basically started on grass, First 100m not on actual lap then narrowed running on grass on the perimeter near all saints road. Then taking a sharp left before a tarmac path, this was the start of a long sextion on forestry floor making up 800m. The last bit of forestry trail followed a tarmac path down one side and U turned back up the other. Useful for seeing how youre doing but didnt rerally use it till last lap. There followed 200m of soft grass to lap end/finish line.

    The 10 min fast on saturday had me feeling sprightly and on seeing the start i decided to go with the pace until teh first foresty bit. Id be better on this ground and could recover here if need be.
    I saw Mick Traynor warming up before (obvious favourite), Davy Byrne from Tallaght ac as well as a few fast Raheny guys and we (rathfarnham) should have a few ourselves.

    Off we went, a very fast start to amke sure that you werent bottled by the narrowing. I was in 5th or 6th, Simon Reede of raheny pushing out in front. Somewhere before the first forest bit the relaxed gallop of TRaynor moved into second on his own.
    Around onto the forestry bit and i push into 3rd myself, feeling brave. I dont get a gap as Damian martin from raheny comes with me with the rest of the group. Back onto teh grass near the finish of lap 1 (of 4) and the strong lads push the pace now, me hanging on. I just about survive to the forestry sextion. I should have sat in here and saved a move for the forestry section on last lap..but i didnt. I bombed into third and got teh gap. 500m later i was in oxygen debt and the balliff was ta the door. The group sailed past. I lost more ground on the grassy bit. Lap 3 and im fighting ahrd to ut my losses. Have caught up to the back of the group but its broken now and most are ahead. I consolidate for this lap and in the forestry section of the last lap can muster enough to get a gap on those around me before the last 200m muddy sprint for the finish.
    This was horrible! There was myself and 3 lads behind about a 5 second gap betweene ach person. Once one person tries to o for it, everyone does...so it was a 200meters all out on soft mucky ground. No palces were gained or lost. We had an inquest after to see who started teh poinless sprint but nobody owned up, the ald coming 4th of teh 4 being a suspect though.

    Traynor opened a gap early for an easy win. Byrne pounced for second near the end. I finished 8th and was overtaken by a canny Rathfanham m40 to put me 3rd behind himself and Byrne.

    That was it. Good racing and a good day out. The 10 mins hard on saturday was worth it, Kept me in the hunt at the start and gave me a kick at the end. Not sure for longer races though.

    Was in bits on monday. I thought i had another cold/flu/infection (would have been no 6 of winter, compared with 0 last year).
    OK today so put it down to a hard race and old age.

    So two sessions last week: fartlek, race..as well as a mini session on saturday....and 30+ k of aerobic running on thursday, with an OK total volume. Improving at last.

    This week may do a steady 90 min run on thursday with a session on saturday (tempo or 6 X 2k) with long hilly run on sunday.

    Last weeks total: 125.5 km
    This week 13.5 km
    Yearly: 236.5 km


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Tuesday pm: 12.5
    Wednesday: am 13.5. Pm: 12.5k

    To and from work. Chesty cough/Infection back with avengeance. Back on anti-bios tomorrow if no improvement. A medium long steady run planned for tommorrow maybe put on hold, if health doesnt improve.

    This month is going to end one of these weeks apparently!

    This week: 52 k
    This year: 275k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thursday 26 k 13.5 am 12.5k pm
    Friday: same as above

    WEekly: 104k
    Yearly: 327

    Sorry for short posts: Chest infection still at me. Will take anti-bios tomorrow.

    Plan if not too sick is a long fartlek tommorrow: mixing tempo with easy running. Ill do a few hill sprints and strides too.

    Sunday probably a local long and easy run.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Saturday: progression run 16k, ave 4 min km
    Sunday: long resistance run 27.5 km. 4:30 pace

    Saturdays run was one of canovas fundamental runs for building aerobic, resistance...as was sundays. Originally meant to be 80-90 mins at 90% MP. I settled for 15 k probression and Borgen. Roughly 5k @ 4:20, 5@4:00 abnd 5@3:40 (100% MP).

    3:40 is ambitious for marathon pace but i got session roughly right. A hill over raheny and coastal run back was windassisted.

    Sundays run was a resistance run at 80% MP. On tarmac, grass and beach. 4:30about right if a little fast





    Decent week. Legs felt sluggish on saturday and this was the main limiting factor on saturday. A session of controlled reps is called for next to ensure aerobic fitness is the limiting factor during runs for improving aerobic fitness. Better start sprint hill reps soon, so leg strenght isnt too far behind fitness when the hill training starts. I will probably do most of the hill training on steeper ground. Strenght endurance training on flat ground would mostly suffice for shallower hills.
    That said, canova recommends a 6-10k uphill tempo for aerobic power which i can use a few times in different phases as it obviously transfers nicely to spefic hil training (intended for marathon fundamental traning). Slope is 3-6%. done on threadmill i guess.
    Have a car back so lets hope my runnibg commuting regime holds!
    Weekly: 147.5
    Yearly: 370.5


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Mon: Easy 26k: to and from work
    Tue: Lunch: 14k inc 8 x 400m (80s-71s)
    PM 6k recovery

    Tuesdays choice was a mistake. Seemed very slow initially. Avoiding some ice and forgetting to accelerate at the start.

    After i accelerated i got in 1-2 faster ones although there wete a few finish lines on track and i stoppped a second short once or twice.

    Tied up on 8th and legs were full of lacate after 200m of 9th so ended it there. No business doing a lactate tolerance sessions. 20 x 200 @5k, or 10k of 200m @ 5k, 200m easy would have been apt.
    Distance to tracka little far to make it viable at lunch hour.

    Going to start hill sprints today. 80-90 min at 4m pace tonight.

    Choice of hill sprints (Canova):

    Agile, high frequency runner: Sprints of 60/100m with a gradient of 15% about, where they push very hard, trying long steps, for developing strenght.

    (At the end of every session they go for a run of 400/500m climbing, at their max. speed (only once). This type of training has the task of using soon your strenght in direction of strenght-endurance.

    100m or over of sprint, but use a hill of about 8/10 % lasting 20/25 sec. i to improve their frequency, seeking more rapidity with a good reaction in their feet, (that are not very elastic.)

    Short sprints of about 40m, with a gradient of more than 30% (ramps), only for improving strenght

    Runners already very strong: try to develop STRENGHT-ENDURANCE, no strenght or rapidity, already at good level.

    Slim runner with long strides. Use short sprints climbing (about 15% of gradient) twice a week, going with very high knees and high frequency.

    Dev. strenght-endurance: At the end of every session go for a run of 400/500m climbing, at their max. speed (only once). This type of training has the task of using soon your strenght in direction of strenght-endurance.



    For mountain running frequency is less important so ill be going for the strenght type (on steps) twice a week, and ill try out the the strenght endurance option when strong. (Killiney hill looks tailor amde for this combo.)

    Ill be doing other hill training of course on and off road: Long easy/modetae /hard hill runs. Hill reps starting at 1 minute reps.
    A specific session: running hard up around race pace and recovering down. Gradually Extending lenght of session, and increasing down speed (recovery).

    Ill be doing some development of agility. Working on downhill speed and rough ground technique (not together until close to racing time).

    Just the thoughts at present. Easier said than done ofcourse!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭DogSlySmile


    Good post.
    T runner wrote: »
    Mon:

    Ill be doing some development of agility. Working on downhill speed and rough ground technique (not together until close to racing time).

    Just the thoughts at present. Easier said than done ofcourse!

    How will you be working on downhill speed? is it just a matter of finding a nice short downhill (like Killiney hill) and running with good form then repeat i.e., similar to hill reps but downhill?

    Or will you find a longer gradual downhill of a few miles and try to maintain good form over the longer course? and repeat if necessary.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Good post.



    How will you be working on downhill speed? is it just a matter of finding a nice short downhill (like Killiney hill) and running with good form then repeat i.e., similar to hill reps but downhill?

    Or will you find a longer gradual downhill of a few miles and try to maintain good form over the longer course? and repeat if necessary.

    A mixture.
    Any lunch time runs now will involve circuits but i can also do leg speed and drills for agility as well as the strenght stuff.

    Nomally skill comes from long runs on mountains. But ill do some reps during uphill training in the coming month. Initially the reps will be on good ground eg killiney hill. The object is to take them in stride, completely relaxed.

    The spefic uphill session i described is also downhill, as the downhills are not run easy and closer to race time the downhills will be close to race pace....but again always relaxes.
    On big mountain races fatigue is an element in dowhilling. Technique goes out the window if quads are shot anf things get worse. So leg strenght is vital for downhill. I think thats what john lenihan said when he opined thst if he was fit for a god uohil, he was fit for a good downhill. You need technique and strenght to really downhill to full potential in the big races.
    Thats why im going to be concentrating a lot on strenght and fitness to weight ratio....and on my downhill technique.
    So will practice downhill on long runs, on early hill reps....sometimes as the dominsnt part of session, and on race spefic hill reps....and i will concentrate on descending smoothly no matter how tired i am...a lot of it is in the head.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭DogSlySmile


    Thanks for the info. I'm doing the Wicklow way ultra in march, I'm not too worried about the climbs but there is a long descent from about 15 miles to 21 miles that has me worried... I tend to get pains in my stomach on long hard downhills, I've started a routine of squats, planks etc that will hopefully help but I suppose more time downhilling is the best training.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thanks for the info. I'm doing the Wicklow way ultra in march, I'm not too worried about the climbs but there is a long descent from about 15 miles to 21 miles that has me worried... I tend to get pains in my stomach on long hard downhills, I've started a routine of squats, planks etc that will hopefully help but I suppose more time downhilling is the best training.

    Yep, core strenght is also important as more strain is put on the stomachdownhilling. Thats ne desent fromdjoucetocrone wood"...? You should practice it before the race. The more fluid the descent the less strain onthestomach. Bit plemty odcore work is in order for youallright.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thanks for the info. I'm doing the Wicklow way ultra in march, I'm not too worried about the climbs but there is a long descent from about 15 miles to 21 miles that has me worried... I tend to get pains in my stomach on long hard downhills, I've started a routine of squats, planks etc that will hopefully help but I suppose more time downhilling is the best training.

    A lydiard circuit that Uses downhills might suit you, now that ive had time to think. That descent (djouce) is a long fast run all the way to the bridge before knockree. A hill circuit on a hilly golf course would be good as surface is fast and smooth. You can extend the downhil section as strenght and technique improve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Wednesday 23rd jan:

    Decided to drive (knew a car would be trouble) over to killiney hill for hill sprints. Got delayed and it was 1:30 before i arrived not togged oit. Tired as i was i was easily persuaded to forgo in gavour of a scenic drive (cars fault) around killiney hill.

    Back at office had a quick look at some canova stuff.on fundamental training...."steadfastness and a constant pressure on system most important factors.....vital phase" etc

    10pm and i still hadnt ran...but in a sudden burst of feck it i headed out. Tidays Steadfastness and pressure were going to have to be combined into one 50 min run.




    So 25 mins tempo....comfortably fast...except for last 5 mins which were not comfotable
    but not hanging on either. Finished with 5 x hill sprints up a shallow slope with long forceful strides. Effort was all out. No garmin on tempo which mskes it easier to do the session right. Not as much concern with monitoring speeds for hill running too.

    Its hard to miss the runs when trainng is already consitant although i made a good effort today.
    (at mising my runs)
    Going to do a clib session next tuesday. Will be 5-6 by 2k or similar. 2 hr+ easy introductory hill run in sligo sunday. Have to decide on saturdays session. Maybe a fartlek of some description or a long tempo.

    Ill try and get 30k of aerobic runing in tommorrow on my commute. If that car doesnt tempt me again!

    11k today.

    Weekly 57k
    Yearly 427.5k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thursday 24 jan.

    21k. Steady tempo.

    Flat and breezy. About 4.02 pace. A good run to complete as it was a struggle to get a run in at all. Eventually got out at 8. The distance got to me a bit at the end although it was comfortable enough until then. Ill want to be able to do 30 k at that intensity as a base for the heavier long runs and sessions ahead. The pace should get down well under 4 as fitness improves.





    Friday:

    Lunch 7k easy inc. 8 by 8-10s uphill. Legs were heavy so concentrated on high knees and leg speed. Did some strides on the run back which worked well after the hill work.

    PM: 10k easy

    So thats my two hill sprint mini sessions done for the week. Tommorrow probably easy again. Long hill run on sunday. 2.5 hrs and intensity as easy as i can.

    I think ive finally twigged why canova adds sessions without dropping the older ones. The reason must be that the new sessions cant be sustained without maintaining the old. In other words to build a new story on your house you must make sure the lower stories are maintained and strong.



    That makes things simpler really. When i do the hill running specific work, it will be added to the existing work. So if im doing long fast runs on good surfaces, to support long fast runs on mountains, to support extensive hill inyervals and races. Then i need to keep all of these topped up.
    Likewise if im doing fast tempos, short hill reps and 2k reps, to give me power and strenght endurance for hill intervals which can be extended. Then all of thses pieces need to be maintained. That makes things easier, im not changing the schedule completely with each phase: just adding to the previous phase. Thats why he can claim that the training evolves.

    This rule and canovas belief that no session should be repeated mmake some of his schedules appear more complex than they actually are.

    The key is knowing exactly what the key specific sessions are for the event in question. Then working out the key preceding sessions needed to support these sessions. And working out if there is any session in the general phase that needs to be a bit different......

    A couple of phonrcalls may be in order to find out about the key specific sesions from people who have bought the teeshirt....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    T runner wrote: »
    This rule and canovas belief that no session should be repeated mmake some of his schedules appear more complex than they actually are.

    Huge fan of this simply because it gets you away from comparing like for like during your training and you just focus on overall all improvement. Too many people get into a habit of doing same session the whole time and having to improve on it. There comparison of sessions becomes nearly more important than how you feel during your sessions and as such we become enslaved to the watch even more than normal


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭ASIMON0V


    I agree with this as well; it must surely cause diminishing adaptation returns in terms of stressing the system as well. The body should not know what is coming at it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    ecoli wrote: »
    Huge fan of this simply because it gets you away from comparing like for like during your training and you just focus on overall all improvement. Too many people get into a habit of doing same session the whole time and having to improve on it. There comparison of sessions becomes nearly more important than how you feel during your sessions and as such we become enslaved to the watch even more than normal
    +1
    ASIMON0V wrote: »
    I agree with this as well; it must surely cause diminishing adaptation returns in terms of stressing the system as well. The body should not know what is coming at it.


    +1

    I agree with that. Not only does the body get better at performing some sessions, but these sessions become the sole barometer of an athletes feedback which causes watch obsession and the session be run too hard to achieve "improvement".

    If the body adapts to a system etc being stressed in a certain way then surely we should stress that stystem in a way that the body has not yet adapted to to gain the greater
    adaption/supercompenation whatever.

    This rule can be relaxed a little as the sessions become very specific. A very specific marathon session for Canova is the Specific marathon enduramce: eg 6 by 3k at MP, 5 by 4k, 4 by 5k etc all with 1 k fastish recovery between, But even some of tehse are varied by running the reps at
    progressive paces etc. I suppose when the objective is more narrow and specific we want the body to get better at it, so the sessions dont vary as much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Friday:

    Lunch: 7k including 8 x 8s uphill sprint concentrating on leg speed and knee lift. Legs felt sluggish.

    PM 10k recovery

    Saturday PM

    22k steady run 4:10 pace

    Sunday.

    Hill run knocknarea 12 k 600m climbing approx and 100 mins

    Monday

    5k rec 6k easy rec.


    In Sligo for weekend. Ran the steady run in extremely wet conditions. A new on road cycle track betwen strandhill and sligo made it safer as well as a headtorch and reaonable street lighting. Route for sligonians went down first sea road,through finiskilin industrial est. And then ash lane, around the block and back same way. Great road surface throughout and tough undulations made it an excellent route for this run. Finisklin and the cycle lane on ash lane are as good for off track intervals as anywhere ive seen in dublin. With the mountain, the long beaches and trails it reallly is idylic training facilities.

    Had a god run here. Decided to work on the hills on the way back and got
    back only 20s slower than out. Happy with pace given conditions. Going to cocentrate a little more on the uphills now during easy runs. Anything to help with the strenght to weight ratio and leg strenght needs ti start being slowly added to the mix. I havent ran in conditions that wet since the glenmalure mountain race back in 2006: edit* (about to lie~) when i had to guide PosNeg off the mountain in mist and torrential rain only for him to blast off into the distance when the coast was clear!!!

    I decided to run Sundays hill run at an easy effort. The climbs are steeped so i jogged where possibke even walking a little at one point.
    Wore my new inov 8. Mudclaws great grip. Not as fast as the x-talons though.
    Pelted with stinging hailstones during 2 showers. Left it at 100 mins and a good job. The last 300 metre descent into sttandhill had the legs with soreness yesterday and tiday. Not the severe kind, but an adequate
    vacccinstion! Should be no kore soreness for the season hopefully.


    Last week: 128k
    This week: 11k
    Yearly: 410.5k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Tuesday:

    Fartlek 14k

    5 X 7min wi 2.5 mins rest. Legs still sore, still have cold but went with this last night as i may race on saturday and wont ahve time today. Very tired after 4, managed 5 min of 5th before packing it in. First similar session in ages and it showed. I might join in on club night next tuesday which would be 6 X 2k.
    Moderate 12.5k home tonight will be all for today.
    A step back week. Not over tired but its good to back off a little early sometimes and external issues dictate that next week is freer for training for this week, so makes sense, i hope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Wednesday: Just 12.5k easy

    On way home a strong looking guy (Obviously did weights but not a body builder) flew past. He wasnt Irish probably Australian. He was doing a pace run, about 3:50 pace id reckon. What struck me was that his pace was coming from his strenght. i. e that his weight training was giving him power. He was well built although light enough, very strong but an all rounder id say, not just a runner.

    I have been considering the benefits of weight training for running and in particular for hill running. These next two months are going to be heavy. They are the make or break months. I need to come out of it fitter than ever before with a power to weight ratio like never before. Then ill just need to extend that power for my events. In 3 weeks ill start doing hard hill reps (harder than race pace) to build power as well as hard tempos, 10 X 1k, XC races etc. In 7 weeks ill extend them out.
    The Resistance stuff im doing: long runs, fast steady runs, long pregression runs will help me with the endurance to extend those reps. And those reps will help me do my climbs and descents harder during long runs. Short hard runs get longer, long runs get faster. And both support each other.

    How much power i gain will be one of the early limiters of how fast i go up those hills come race day. Anything to help with taht is desireable.
    Ill post some stuff here from Hill running fora for perusal.

    I think about running a bit so im going to put any fleeting thoughts down here before they evapourate, be they insightful or horse manure:

    Todays thought: Benefit of Canovas general phase and Lydiards Marathon conditioning training to energy systems for Hill running.

    Canova states that developing fat burning efficiency is not enough for teh marathon. Runners need to practice burning fuel (close to the correct mixture of Glyco and Fat) for the intensity of the marathon. He calls this the "lipid range" and it is within 10% (generally slower) of MP.

    Canovas general phase and Lydiards Marathon conditioning training runs at a variety of paces. The faster paces in particular should teach the body to burn the fuel mix efficiently at many intensities, which is almost specific training of the energy systems for the energy demands of hill running.
    So varying aerobic paces, varying structure (continous, progression, fartlek, different sesion every time ) is specially god for hill running.

    (Edit) 2nd thought:
    John Lenihan said to treat the top of the mountain as if its the end of the race. That means that the legs will be heavy with lactic come the top.
    He said he never forced the start of the descent, just waited for his legs to return. He occasionally fell behind initially but not for long. I take it he practiced this transition in training probably during his hard hilly fartlek sessions.
    Possible session: Uphill reps. Up a mountain. Keep climbing. make last especially hard even if it is an endurance based session. Turn and cruise down the hill learning to flush the legs clear while descending.

    ahem lactate buffering

    More soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thursay 31st January. January nearly over at last.

    17k steady: Road beach. Windy. Out and back again.
    3:57 pace.
    Out 3:48, back 4:07

    Out to Dollymount beach with a strong tailwind. Comfortable clip. Realised the extent of the wind when i turned. Pushed hard to come back, almost like running uphill. Happy enough but legs were tiring at the end.
    Half planned to do postponed BHAA race on saturday so may do club tempo of 36 mins instead. Will be controlled.

    I have a good base now to really put in 2 big months. Id really love to get all aspects right (aerobic condition, strenght, nutrition etc) to see how fit i can get.

    Technically i guess should still be doing some doubles even in this step back week to maintain things. Hopefully next week wont be too big a shock.

    A possible hill running specific session i heard about: uphill on threadmill, steep gradient (15%) if available.
    15 min 1 min slow 1 min fast 1 min slow etc Fast is fast enough to produce lacate in the legs, slow is as fast as possible while still being able to flush out the lactate. Improves lactate buffering/re-use at race relevant pace (slower pace). Also teaches lactate tolerance....and pain tolerance..ouch! Might be one for transitioning to more heavy specific hill sessions.

    This week 54.5k
    Yearly: 554


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    T runner wrote: »
    uphill on threadmill, steep gradient (15%) if available
    JD has some very steep uphill treadmill sessions. In fact he recommended raising the treadmill up using books or something, if it doesn't go high enough (of course it would help if you weren't in a public gym). I can certainly see the advantages in terms of getting a very tough cardio workout, without the stress on the legs (slower speed, and no corresponding downhill impact). Additionally, you can run a little faster than you would up a natural slope, as you don't have to pick out your foot positioning. Not sure if I'd like to try it though. Have you seen the Jack Daniels treadmill sessions?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    JD has some very steep uphill treadmill sessions. In fact he recommended raising the treadmill up using books or something, if it doesn't go high enough (of course it would help if you weren't in a public gym). I can certainly see the advantages in terms of getting a very tough cardio workout, without the stress on the legs (slower speed, and no corresponding downhill impact). Additionally, you can run a little faster than you would up a natural slope, as you don't have to pick out your foot positioning. Not sure if I'd like to try it though. Have you seen the Jack Daniels treadmill sessions?

    I may have read them if they are in the book? But cant remember them. If theyre in the book Ill have a look again tonight.

    Have a threadmill at home, up to 10% incline. I might look at propping it up if needs be.

    I may use a variety of hill sessions so the more the merrier. The variety worked quite well for me when i was building up fitness last year.

    Is there any hill sessions in your marathon program?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,496 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    T runner wrote: »
    I may have read them if they are in the book? But cant remember them. If theyre in the book Ill have a look again tonight.

    Have a threadmill at home, up to 10% incline. I might look at propping it up if needs be.

    I may use a variety of hill sessions so the more the merrier. The variety worked quite well for me when i was building up fitness last year.

    Is there any hill sessions in your marathon program?
    Yeah, they're in the book. There's a range covering threshold runs, intervals etc. Nope, no hill sessions in the plan I'm following (Plan A). I wouldn't mind incorporating some, on the lower mileage weeks, but timing is the hard part.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Yeah, they're in the book. There's a range covering threshold runs, intervals etc. Nope, no hill sessions in the plan I'm following (Plan A). I wouldn't mind incorporating some, on the lower mileage weeks, but timing is the hard part.

    Cant find it at the minute...its around somewhere so will check later again.
    I might do that hill alternations session on a shallower gradient soon.
    Something like 3mins fast 3 mins moderate X 10 continous on a 6% incline.
    This is like a Canova (alternations) and Hadley (wave) session. On a tangent, I dont think its suitable staple session for the marathon for non elites. I had considered doing it for my next marathon but have revised that. Apart from bringing AT closer to LT the session is supposed to get the body to re-use lactate at marathon race pace. I think non-elites race pace is too far away from the AnT (very little lactate produced) for significant enough gains to be made by doing the session more than once. Doing it once might be a nice stepping stone, towards the marathon reps with moderate paced kilometer recoveries. (Ive unfinished business with the marathon, judging ny tehse musings!). I think those alternations, waves sessions are best suited to HM, and 10k for non-elites, ( or hill in my case).
    One of Canovas session i will use is the 6-10k (ill use duration equivalent to start....18-30 mins) uphill @ 3-6%.
    The sessions that helped me most for my marathon were the medium long and long continous paced hard runs. They are a super base for the long run marathon paced work, and for any long sessions. Between hill running and other messing i did not capitalise on these last year, and in the end they were probable the most specific training i did for that marathon. (Bar one Canova style long run with MP segments which was built on the base of a long run of 35k @ 4 min pace a few weeks before).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Friday 1/2/13
    10.5 k recovery including 2 X hard uphill

    Felt a slight feeling on upper ham after 2 psot run hill sprints, so left it at that on a cold night. No issues since.

    Saturday 2/2/13

    20k including 2 by 13.5 min tempo roughly.

    Plan was run easy to Dollymount strand (wooden bridge) tempo up beach and back. Too hard up the beach and was hanging on at end. Stopped for 3 mins and ran back comfortable hard in a similar time. Should have done a few strides and warmed up properly. I was right to break it up, effort was harder than LT and that wasnt the purpose of the session.

    Sunday

    Rest.

    Life got in the way, downgraded run from hill run, to long road run, to late long road run, to late short road run, to forget it. Had a relaxing evening instead and feel better for it this morning. Will be worth it if i get a good week in this week.

    Week Total: 85k
    Year total: 584.5


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Monday 4/2/13

    Lunch 10.5 k inc 7 X uphill sprint + 1 X 200m uphill
    PM 13.5 k easy

    Started hill sprints on a hill leading to Killiney Park to save time. Had 5 done by teh time i reached the steps. Legs jellied after 2 more. I tried a more controlled run up the steps to the small building above teh cliffs for Strenght endurcance as Canova suggests after that mini-session.
    Legs jellied early, two steps at a time back to one step. Struggled all the way even when moving slowly for last flight of steps. Good. This means huge gains to be made here.



    Day total: 24k
    Week Total: 24k
    Year total: 608.5


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Tuesday 7/2/13

    Lunch: 6k inc 8 X 100m strides plus core
    PM: 13k inc 5 X 2k rec 2.30 rest

    Wednesday:

    Lunch 6k rec plus Core
    PM 10k easy

    First club interval session in a long time on tuesday. Happy with pace for 1st 2, was able to stay with good runners one training for a 2:32 marathon.
    Bazman landed on the scene and the pace was upped a little. Stayed the pace but reps 4-5 were done at marathon effort, good job as the pace went more off the scale after. Have lost or misplaced garmin and watch has no batteries, but i think first 3 must have been around or under 6:50.

    Good session. Should have the specific endurance to last the 5 next week.
    Half day and meeting a club mate for 21k progression this afternoon.
    Doing IMRA race on saturday as my once a month race. Cant do remaining two IMRA Winter league races or Garda BHAA so its the only oppurtunity to get one in.

    Week Total: 59k
    Year Total: 643.5k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Thursday

    Lunch 21.1 k 83 mins. 3:56 pace

    PM 6k recovery

    Half day and met up with a clubmate for a half marathon training run. 2 laps, first averaging 4 mins, second 3:53 pace. Tough run in rain and strong wind. Plenty of hills so a tough workout. We were evenly matched so a good workout for both runners. At least one clubmate who ran it in 81 and faster last week comfortably will be running the race on saturday. That means ive no chance to win the race which takes some pressure off. Will i make the rathfarnham team if we win i wonder? I like the look of the race. A slow initial climb and then 3 tough steep climbs and technical descents ibefore fireroad undulations and a fast descent.

    Im not fit enough yet alas to attack this race from the start. Its going to take 50+ hard minutes to complete. Waiting for the steep climbs will be my tactic.
    Ill be walking them if i dont methinks.

    Legs felt the tiredness this evening. An easy recovery run has helped, body still a little tired so very easy day running tommorow, although ill run twice again.

    28.5k today


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Friday 8/2/2013

    6k recovery

    Saturday 9/2/2013

    AM Hill Race. Annacurra (11k) 14k
    Report will follow

    PM 6k recovery


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Annacurra race report. 11k 480m 4th place
    This months race was annAcurra. Thought i had a chance here depending on who showed up. Clubmate and irish champ brian furey was in attendance although on way back to fitness. Strongest lookimg runner was des kennedy, and had a focused steely look in his eye. There were a few new kids on the block too. Course was as follows: gradual climb for about 180 m in height gain, followed by 3 steepish climbs and descents. A massive pool on a trail you can run around or plow through, then 3-4k of fast trail and fireroad. 480 m of ascent and descent. My plan was simple, steady till the steep bits and take it from there. I half fancied myself against anyone on the field on the down. The up was an unknown.
    Off we went, flat for 200m then left turn up. I took the lead and climbed steady to slow. My mini plan was that some rightly or wrongly might view me as an experienced hill runner and accept the cautious pace. My real reason was that a fast start might blow me out of contention. The further i could get up the hill
    runnng steadily and not behind, the closer id be to the leader st the summit, the better my chsnces of catching them on my descent.
    Des moved to the lead and put the pressure on. I groaned nwardly. He was Pursued by paddy oleary one of the aforementioned new kids. It was a little umcomfortable and i found myself slipping down the field. No worries i

    thought, these lads are goimg to hard, keep it steady your time will come later. Fast forward 5 mins on the fireroad and the two lads are clear, im on my own in 4th about 15 secs back behind dave power climbing well in 3rd. I realise des is strong and not coming back, paddy although running bravely, i think, is working very hard and will have trouble when it gets steep, and so it
    proved. First steep climb and dave passes paddy. Im just concentrating on keeping my form good as i realise im losing time and need to miimise this. I get pass paddy after some resistance and i need to take dave quickly on the first descent. I descend quickly and do get into 2nd half way down. Im forcing it and havent managed to recover. Next climb and i look eagerly for des. I cant tell if ive made ground or not which is not a result, it is very bad news. Dave passes half way up and pushes on strongly. My climbing endurance is being fond out now as my speed wanes a little. Im still optimistic though, and i reach dave again at the bottom of the second descent. He pulls away climbimg again and i see des has opened again after the last climb. Big descent coming up i tell myself, dont give up, stick in there. Past the true summit, and kurt godel is marshalling and later puts the gap betwen first and second at 30. That surprised me, in himdsight, but i must have been 10-15 secs further back. I thought des' lead was larger. Down we went im close to dave, we turn right flattish section with lake annacurra to be negotiated at the end. I see des way ahead, maybe 200m and hes around the lake and i see him run around and right. I judge that hes definately going to win barring an act of god. I might close 30s if he eases off but its probably over.
    Dave arrives at the lake and runs on the bank, i know theres a route through the woods but i need to take risks now and the risk i take is that straight through the the water is quicker and will gain me time on my rivals. I pass dave initially then it gets deep, really deep. Can hardly walk. I see dave head

    for the exit and i follow in relief. The water wasnt that cold and its woken me up and given me a new wind. Dave is climbing back up a hill, no path between trees. I see a good trail in the oposite direction yet the pull to follow is very strong, so follow i do. A minute or two later dave mentions that there hasnt been a marker in ages, he suspects the worse. We see runers running in the opposite direction towards the lake. Balderdash. Back we go, more messing on my part finding a gap to get out onto the right trail. I guess were in 8th or 9th now. Ah well. Totally recovered so going to try and get some good descending in. First bit of downhill before the fireroad proper is technical enough. A guy is descending fast behind and catching. I decide to not let him pass ans speed up. He speeds up, until were both hurtling down. Im happy enough with this situation as im not redlining and im now flying, i up it again and get away and here his steps receding. A long gradual up and i can see 5 runners strewn out ahead. Brian furey ahead of paddy oleary...must be 2nd and 3rd as paddy would have been clear in 4th at the summit and theres a clear gap ahead of them. I pass adrian and keith and i hear footsteps closing behind. Dave! Wel im f..ked if hes going to pass me on every hill today. I push hard and the top arrives just in time. Really eatimg up the ground now and accclerate to pass barry cronin. I get away and see that 2nd and third ate still in range. Lovely!
    We turn left and im feeling no pain, not any..not even that end of race hangimg on fatigue. Means im fit enough, legs are strong enough, my climbimg is just not up to scratch. Anyway, only about 15s behind paddy when he turns left. Hes about 3-4 behind Brian. Hes turnimg off the fireroad and onto the trail. Im hoping he wont have a look, but...he does and hurries down the trail. Ive had a quick look at this in my warm up and i know that thetes a k left. Its straight enough down a few turns aroind trees. If i take it with full commitment i can poyentially close the gap in my mudclaws and atleast worry the Two lads if not nick a place or two. Dont look at them just coverthe ground fast they wil appear sooner or later. Further down im coming to one ofthose around the tree turns, i leave it too lateto slow and slide straight ahead and rattle the ribs. Sore enough and i just jog in, keeping a weary eye d barry closing fast, who is holding off a last ditch assault by adrian.
    My proximity to 2nd and 3rd may have had some consequences. Paddys fast descent meant he caught brian and after a great battle took 2nd.
    A very, very enjoyable race, going off course msy have made it more enjoyable. Dess winning time suggests he would have comfortably held his margin, with more gun powder available if it was needed, and it was never going to be needed on saturday.

    Happy enough. Fitness is better, but i do need to up the trainng and get some hills in, even road hills. A few meduim long and long hard runs are needed too to get the base for what will be shortly enough, race specific sessions. I think the turbo miht need to be used. I hsve a long way to go to get whete i need to be climbing wise.
    I have a road loop around killiney hill i use...5k. 4-5 steady to hard laps this thursdsy, Probably in progression. An uphill threadmill tempo on saturday possibly 6k @ 6 deg.


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