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Speedy Gonzales or Slowpoke Rodriguez?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    Sorry my post was misleading.

    Trail races and hill/mountain races all can come under IMRA events.

    Trail races would have significant climbs too but take place mainly on better quality trails or forestry roads.

    Mountain/Hill runs tend to be on more technical terrain/sometimes open mountain although not always the case.

    IMO hill/mountain runs might give you that more spiritual one with nature experience.

    Trail run not a bad way to start though as you'll get a good training stimulus for a race and you'll get used to the off-road in a gentler way so to speak. If you want the full immersive experience go for a full mountain race.

    Here is the calendar: If you fancy any of these let me know and I can advise.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭ Swashbuckler

    Yep I saw that event list and top of coom was one I thought might work in my calendar.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    "Nice fast course, Forrest trail, Bog road, and open Mountain."

    Should be perfect.

    A few tips:

    Start at the front you'll be contending for this.

    As you're new to the descents you may be slightly relatively slower on technical bits. Make up for this by covering the good parts lightening fast. ie run faster than race pace going down good quality surfaces as you'll get the recovery on the technical bits.

    If things narrow into a single track make sure you're leading your group. If you're the fastest up or down it gives you open space ahead, if you're not the fastest you give your competitor a problem.

    Pick a spot near the end of the race where you are confident that 9/10 times the person leading the group at that point will prevail. Make sure you are leading the group at that point.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,580 ✭✭✭ Swashbuckler

    Thanks a mill. Love the optimism! If I'm up front I'll no doubt get lost.

    I'm hopeful I'll be able to do it but will depend on family etc.

    Thanks again for the tips and advice.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing

    Some fantastic sessions in that T - made me go back and go through your strava as of late - you're flying these days.

    A lot of very slow runs to manage the calf - but some great sessions - that 10miler in Coney Is - your 5k split was faster than my 5k PB!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    It was down hill and down wind. The return 5k on the return was not so fast!

    I am going well. I was strong after training for the September hill race (albeit intermittent with sessions but consistant running).

    That quickly translated into gains on tempo type runs.

    If I can get fit enough to run long tempos 10-16miles+ I get really fit.

    Slow twitch guys and gals dont need to do those long tempos as much as us greyhounds AMK ;-)

    Calf is just about sorted again but unfortunately had to skip the HM. Hope to do a session Wednesday but that will be 3 full weeks since the last one.

    Madeira marathon is goal in 8 weeks - 1day.

    It's masters Euro champs so time secondary to place.

    I think if I train more for endurance I will increase the chances of a solid run and also of nicked places near the end.

    Bit of a hill on the lap and temp in the 20s so a bigger strenght component anyway.

    Youre flying too and unlucky re dublin but i assume Jingle Bells will get a going over in revenge?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    Update time:


    (SESH: 30 mins easy 10 x 3 mins (off 2'') 30 mins easy (@3:34)

    SESH: Long fartlek: Supposed to be 16 miles tempo wi WU/CD but went out too fast and had to alter the session. After 8k fast did mixture of hill strides and tempo segments.

    LONG: (NEXT DAY) 2 hrs and 5 mins @ 4:28 HILLY ROAD



    (26th Nov. CLONTARF HALF SATURDAY. Will do 10 mins LT tomorrow to wake up system.)

    Didn't race Clontarf: CALF NIGGLE AGAIN


    Managed low weekly mileage, but niggle (calf tightness) persisted do no sessions.

    (From 24th December)

    LONG: 20 hilly Miles mostly steady (lower end steady)

    LONG: Long run 22 miles including 12 steady (faster).

    LONG: 23 miler, about 17 steady effort. Died last 3 miles.


    SESH: WU 3 x 6 x 40" + 4k

    LONG: 18 miles INC. WU 12k-8k-4.5k (off 4 mins jog)

    LONG: 16.5 MILES inc 10 tempo and 4 steady (meant to be 10 tempo but died)



    Only 14 days session training since the niggle and 2 weeks to go so have no choice but to taper.

    With limited time idea was to risk two big weeks and plenty of long runs to regain strenght and create endurance.

    Struggled with these but after taper I should get a good burst of strenght from it and should have enough endurance to fade respectfully

    Recover, recover, recover most important, I'll work on some easy leg speed perhaps and one last maintenance 13 miler.

    ie this week

    15 x 1min on/off

    MLR 13 mile (last 3 steady)

    Next week easy till race,

    My tactics in the marathon will be the tortoise approach although I may not catch any hares and may be caught by other tortoises!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing

    Hey T - I'm interested to hear your learnings from the Marathon (& see the report).

    You've also rebounded well going by your recent 10m time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad


    Target: Belfast Marathon. April 30th 2023.

    With a Marathon split of 81/91 in Madeira endurance was the obvious weakness.

    After chatting to Stazza we agreed strenght endurance was an area that needed priority as well as endurance over long fast runs.

    The strenght endurance took the form of a Canova type specific endurance progression but based on time. So a fast section with a shorter steady recovery section. This wouldn't normally be necessary or indeed recomended for someone in my finishing time category, but given my weakness in that area and that next marathon was not too far over the horizon this session fit the missing piece pretty well. Covering from 18 up to 21-22k on this one as it progresses. Doing this session every second week. On alternate weeks doing a progression based on 3 min reps with 30-35s recovery (John Kellogg inspired session). For one reason or another I've ended up doing these sessions on the Treadmill. I am finding it helps me control the sessions (recovery speed as steady important in the strenght endurance ones, easy to get right on TM), run with good form, and if any sign of a niggle I can just step off the mill etc. and assess/fix. I am also doing the recovery section @ 0% grade (effort is 1% grade). This mimics downhill mechanics and allows relatively running for the steady recovery portion.

    As I started the above progression I also started to progress a long steady run. This was a lesson from Madeira in that the shortcuts I attempted proved I needed the layers of paint. I already had a marathon in my fitness, so assumed body didn't need a long jog. Instead, 3 long steady runs building to 2hrs 5 mins steady (not including warmup).

    With these completed I could now build the more specific marathon tempo sessions. 20k tempo and last weekend 23k tempo. 5k warm up and down for me.

    Just under 6 weeks to Belfast marathon.

    Tomorrows session is 5 x 12mins off 4 mins steady.

    I'll update weekly as I close in now. Fingers crossed no niggles this time.

    Any questions, shoot!

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭ AuldManKing

    Super detail in the race report and in the training - many thanks! Some of those sessions look cruel!! (15x3mins off 35sec?)

    Some food for thought there myself. I must read it again more carefully and take notes :)

    Are you still coached by John or just taking advice??

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    Collaborating with John for my training so a bit of both I guess.

    My Madeira cram was more or less my own devices and experiment.

    The 3 min is kind of an LT session. Starts with 10 x 3, then 12 x 3, then 15 x 3. Last one before marathon would be a very tough 8 x 1mile. Roughly same time working as the 15 x 3 but with less rest.

    You have to be strong to do the session and the 15 x 3 genuinely was not much harder to complete than the 10 x 3 but obviously the body is much stronger.

    I did 23km tempo at the weekend and it helped with the pace in that one. It also helps with the strenght endurance runs (Did 12mins off 4 steady this AM continuous for 80 mins). Needed the long tempos and the 15 x 3m in the legs to be able to complete that one evenly.

    We should get Kev and do a session/coffee in Park later in Spring. I was also thinking of getting a team together for next years M50 Euro marathons. Not sure where it is yet but early 2024 and planting the seed anyway!

    Post edited by demfad on

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭ demfad

    Training 20-26 March (For Belfast April 30)

    Monday AM Run to work 13k ; PM cycle home

    Tuesday AM Easy grass 65m (11) PM Easy with Strides on TM 40m (7.5) (18.5k tot)

    Wednesday WU/WD Fartlek for marathon strenght endurance. 110m, 26k *

    Thursday 2 x cycle commutes (recovery day) (70m easy cycling tot)

    Friday  TM: WU/CD 10m steady 10 x 30s hills 10m faster C 70m/13k ; PM easy 35m/6.5k (19.5k tot)

    Saturday 40m easy on grass AM and PM (80m, 13.5k tot)

    Sunday WU/WD 16+ miles tempo @ approx marathon effort 35.5k, 2hrs 22m **

    Total running for week: 126km

    * Wednesday's Fartlek was 5 x 12m with 4 mins steady recovery all continuous. I added an extra 4 min rep after last 12m to give 80m continuous run.

    Paces: 5:51, 6:31 mi (16.5 kmph, 14.8 kmph). Grad (1%,0%).

    The session was suggested by my coach and is based on the Canova marathon specific progression this session based on 5 x 4k off 1 k steady. So fast km replaced with 3mins, steady km = 4 mins.

    (((This progressed from 5 x 10m off 4m steady last time (5 x 3k off 1 k) and 7 x 7m off 4 before that (7 x 2k off 1k).)))

    This was pretty tough. I normally count (every 4th step) for focus for hard efforts on the treadmill. With my cadence a count of 50=1 min.

    So counting to 600 was about 12 mins. Seemed like it took forever with the weak psychological point getting up to halfway in the 2nd last and last rep.

    It takes me about 2 mins to recover on the steady rep which I run at 0% grad for a change and because it replicates downhill running. In fact on any occasion I look at something like HR it seems to rise immediately after the hard part is over before settling. Knowing this I decided to run an extra steady rep after the last hard rep to allow the body get that extra 2 mins training (recovering while running steady).

    Anyway, by my calculations I ran through HM between 78-79 mins. I don't know if the TM was fully accurate and running at 0% on the steady reps is significantly easier, but still, its encouraging.

    4 x 15 off 4m is the last in the profression.

    ** Sunday's long Run was 16mile tempo at marathon effort. Chose a less hilly course than last week (ave 3:53km/6:13).

    Reckoned I's run faster and so it proved averaging 3:49.

    All good except my watch was setting for 'workouts' was set to 'Indoor running' (from wednesday) so missed some data and feedback but thats the way.

    Total was 35.6k/22+miles @ 4:01/6:07 so happy with the improvement. It was run at a slightly easier intensity as less hills.

    18 mile tempo next week which is 4 weeks out.

    Over and out.