Engineering / teaching maths

Melanoma

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Regardless of what the mathematical content of an engineering degree is and what the teaching council's view is on it, you haven't addressed the point that you think engineers are smarter than everyone else and that you have a condescending view of people who have completed teacher training degrees.

OK whatever your point is I am not sure I have clarified this, but to answer you if you insist on it... Engineers are better at maths than most maths teachers. That's the same with anyone who has studied a pure math degree for 4 years. It stands to reason you develop faster ability than someone who is doing courses less mathematical. Take for example the project maths course. Often I saw teachers there confused and finding it hard to keep up with instruction. The instructor sometimes had to turn to me to get a response and I'd always be finished the task work way ahead of everyone else.

Math ability then yes engineers are more likely to be better have done more than some other course.

Teaching ability is another matter and as I have said but you cant be bothered to read I am not putting down anyone with any degree from teaching it.

The teaching is a craft that you get better at with time. Ability in math is not as important as ability to teach it.

I am not going to name a specific course to put down, but its true there are courses where the teachers have less maths covered than is needed for ordinary level leaving cert courses. They do a lot of teaching theory and the students would agree its too academic. Like I am not making it up they told me themselves.

OK so what do you think do you disagree that in general Engineers and those with pure maths degrees have covered more maths, more intensively and for longer. Do you disagree with what maths teachers from these courses say themselves. If you do fair play to you. By the way I am not naming a course I think that would be rude and although I respect these teachers in the ether of online discussion it could be rehashed again elsewhere. I do not want that.

seavill

Ok we get it you are fantastic at maths, your blue peter badge is in the post wear it with pride

evolving_doors

seavill wrote: »

Ok we get it you are fantastic at maths, your blue peter badge is in the post wear it with pride

Thinly veiled post saying

I'm a brilliant Engineer
I'm a brilliant Teacher
I'm a brilliant Mathematician

Just name the course fella...

bdoo

Armelodie wrote: »

seavill wrote: »

Ok we get it you are fantastic at maths, your blue peter badge is in the post wear it with pride

Thinly veiled post saying

I'm a brilliant Engineer
I'm a brilliant Teacher
I'm a brilliant Mathematician

Just name the course fella...

I would say a fantastic person generally.

doc_17

Is there a 4 year teacher training course for maths? Because I'm assuming that that is why the engineer/math teacher is talking about when he says he won't mention the course.

bdoo

doc_17 wrote: »

Is there a 4 year teacher training course for maths? Because I'm assuming that that is why the engineer/math teacher is talking about when he says he won't mention the course.

I suspect that the poster is referring to the concurrent degrees in science and pe etc. Only concurrent degrees could focus on the pedagogy at the expense of the subjects as there is no pedagogical content in a pure maths or engineering degree

Of course im only a woodwork teacher. My logic could be flawed and im sure that in a 'logic off' the floor would be wiped with my ass.

Dave0301

Science Education in DCU allows people to train in Maths, Chemistry and Physics, specializing in two of the three.

If the maths and physics option is chosen there are many modules which run concurrent with applied physics and engineering courses. I dislike this idea that a person's mathematical ability should be just gauged on what modules you have completed.

Also the content of the mathematics should be relevant. Would you prefer a teacher who has studied relevant modules relating specifically to the Leaving Cert curriculum, or engineers that have studied advanced mathematics that may or may not have relevance to the curriculum?

evolving_doors

bdoo wrote: »

I suspect that the poster is referring to the concurrent degrees in science and pe etc. Only concurrent degrees could focus on the pedagogy at the expense of the subjects as there is no pedagogical content in a pure maths or engineering degree

Of course im only a woodwork teacher. My logic could be flawed and im sure that in a 'logic off' the floor would be wiped with my ass.

Ha I think there actually was a 'maths off' on some thread in the last few months, basically each poster printed out fancy formulas to show who's discipline was the most complicated... funny really, in a pathetic way .. love to read that thread again if anyone has a link to it ... Busiiness V's Engineering I think it was

spurious

Der urr no jerbs anyway.

bdoo

spurious wrote: »

Der urr no jerbs anyway.

Took me a min to get that :-)

evolving_doors

spurious wrote: »

Der urr no jerbs anyway.

Can we put that as a stickey, would save a lot of hassle

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Ha I think there actually was a 'maths off' on some thread in the last few months, basically each poster printed out fancy formulas to show who's discipline was the most complicated... funny really, in a pathetic way .. love to read that thread again if anyone has a link to it ... Busiiness V's Engineering I think it was

I remember that thread, must have a look for it!

rainbowtrout

I'm currently doing a masters in software engineering. I'll be finished it this time next year.

Following on from Melanoma's train of thought...

(a) Are you guys going to think I'm a smarter maths teacher next year than I am this year because I've got an engineering qualification, even though I did it after I qualified as a maths teacher?



(b) should I remove my 'stupid teacher training degree' from my CV? After all an engineering qualification should be all I need for a principal to be fawning over me.

(c) Should I start campaigning on behalf of maths teachers around the country who have engineering qualifications to get bonus pay as I'm clearly going to be a better maths teacher next year so it would to be my benefit????


(d) If so should I change my name from rainbowtrout to salmon of knowledge ????


I'm old school maths... you're not allowed use a calculator to get your answer. All workings must be shown.

:pac::pac::pac:
*This thread has a distinct AH feel to it

doc_17

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm currently doing a masters in software engineering. I'll be finished it this time next year.

Following on from Melanoma's train of thought...

(a) Are you guys going to think I'm a smarter maths teacher next year than I am this year because I've got an engineering qualification, even though I did it after I qualified as a maths teacher?



(b) should I remove my 'stupid teacher training degree' from my CV? After all an engineering qualification should be all I need for a principal to be fawning over me.

(c) Should I start campaigning on behalf of maths teachers around the country who have engineering qualifications to get bonus pay as I'm clearly going to be a better maths teacher next year so it would to be my benefit????


(d) If so should I change my name from rainbowtrout to salmon of knowledge ????


I'm old school maths... you're not allowed use a calculator to get your answer. All workings must be shown.

:pac::pac::pac:
*This thread has a distinct AH feel to it

a) yes

b) yes

c) definitely yes

d) no

Can I ask why you are doing a sofware engineering Masters? Is it with a view to maybe leave teaching? Or are youu just interested in it? Or something else?

Best of luck with it anyhoo

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

a) yes

b) yes

c) definitely yes

d) no

Can I ask why you are doing a sofware engineering Masters? Is it with a view to maybe leave teaching? Or are youu just interested in it? Or something else?

Best of luck with it anyhoo

A bit of both. Have always been interested in computer programming etc. did a grad dip in it way back when so decided to do this course rather than do an educational management one as I have no interest in being a principal etc. have always said that I would bail out of teaching of it gets to the point where I'm not enjoying it anymore so it's useful to have another qualification. Also I brought in programming and computer architecture into our plc course a few years ago do its coming in useful there.

With the new junior cert course coming in over the next few years I'd be interested in getting software development established as a subject in my school as one of the locally developed short courses and expose students to what software design is really like.

But mainly cos I like programming

It makes for some strange reactions when you tell people you teach software development and agriculture

mtoutlemonde

doc_17 wrote: »

Is there a 4 year teacher training course for maths? Because I'm assuming that that is why the engineer/math teacher is talking about when he says he won't mention the course.

There is! This is the one I know of - the first graduates will be conferring in October. Here's the link to the NUIG course - don't know if its in other institutions.
http://www.nuigalway.ie/courses/undergraduate-courses/arts-mathematics-and-education.html

doc_17

Yeah programming is a lovely topic. I'm hoping to do some this year with the transition years. Just not sure which language to do with them yet!

Anyone use Scrych yet? The NCTE courses are being directed at primary level so haven't gone on one yet

mtoutlemonde

doc_17 wrote: »

Yeah programming is a lovely topic. I'm hoping to do some this year with the transition years. Just not sure which language to do with them yet!

Anyone use Scrych yet? The NCTE courses are being directed at primary level so haven't gone on one yet

I attended a scratch workshop - even though it was for primary school teachers it was good - got to use all the functionality There was a women from ncte and she said that they were developing a scratch module for ty. Scratch would be perfect for ty, I'd love to get the opportunity to do it. ICS skills give certs for completion of six modules. I really think programming should be taught in school - there are many advantages especially improving maths as children have to work out how to do something and it also gives students an introduction to programming which is very important with the need for IT graduates. I wish I had had some experience before I did my IT degree.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm currently doing a masters in software engineering.

:pac::pac::pac:
*This thread has a distinct AH feel to it

Sorry the AH feeling was probably my fault with the southpark video

By the way software engineering isnt real engineering..although you'd probably wipe the floor amongst the office cubicles with your teaching skills..

spurious

We did a couple of Scratch workshops with our LCA class - they loved it.

doc_17

A friend's brother teaches IT over in London and all the kids in his school are doing Sratch. He's promised me copies of all his resources next time he's back so looking forward to having a look at it.

But I really like the idea of some C\C++ programming for them. just to get them thinking a bit.

Remember about 6 years ago when there was talk of Leaving Cert reform? I think I vaugely remember the government or someone trying to introduce Politics to the Leaving Cert. No word of IT or proper computing.

spurious

IT is only available (for exam) in LCA.
They won't/can't introduce it across the board for standard LC as there would be a very large equipment cost and upkeep factor.
There are still some schools with less than 30 PCs in the whole building. Running XP.

bdoo

spurious wrote: »

IT is only available (for exam) in LCA.
They won't/can't introduce it across the board for standard LC as there would be a very large equipment cost and upkeep factor.
There are still some schools with less than 30 PCs in the whole building. Running XP.

And the dcg crew are very protective of theirs... Honestly though, all the talk of the knowledge economy and it skills. Some joke.

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

Yeah programming is a lovely topic. I'm hoping to do some this year with the transition years. Just not sure which language to do with them yet!

Anyone use Scrych yet? The NCTE courses are being directed at primary level so haven't gone on one yet

Python and Ruby are supposed to be quite accessible in terms of learning programming languages used in industry. Not as heavy on syntax as C, C#, C++. I don't have any experience of them though. Code Academy are starting online Python lessons this week. Don't have the time to do them though.

spurious wrote: »

IT is only available (for exam) in LCA.
They won't/can't introduce it across the board for standard LC as there would be a very large equipment cost and upkeep factor.
There are still some schools with less than 30 PCs in the whole building. Running XP.

True, the new short courses would allow schools that have the facilities, interest and teachers who are able to program (small pool given all three factors) to offer the subject, which even if it is a small step, it's one in the right direction.

byhookorbycrook

We have been using scratch in primary using opensim software (sort of second life stuff) thanks to giftedkids.ie. Plenty there to challenge any age group.

therightangle

Moankeerina, curveball, any other civils....

Can any civil engs here tell me what teaching subjects they got recognition for, what college they went to, and whether they thought that a degree being pre TC or not would make any difference? Thanks for any replies...

juneg

Armelodie wrote: »

Ah ya shir there's loadsa jobs for maths teachers these days why not give em to the engineers seeing as how nobody else is applying.....idiots:mad:

would agree with the calculator ban though..seems that learning the tables are banned in primary schools... (at least rote learning anyhow).

jeepers thats news to me. My class are still learning them off. Am I obsolete now?:cool:

juneg

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

We have been using scratch in primary using opensim software (sort of second life stuff) thanks to giftedkids.ie. Plenty there to challenge any age group.

my kids use scratch
we just downloaded it from the internet. suitable for even young kids. very creative and inspiring work done in my house!

evolving_doors

juneg wrote: »

jeepers thats news to me. My class are still learning them off. Am I obsolete now?:cool:

good to hear, maybe it was just a bad batch I was going through , is 12 x 12 still the limit these days?

bowdenj

Ive recently had my degree(BSc in Biotechnology in DCU) assessed by the TC in ireland and they told me I need to complete 3 extra modules plus any lab based practicals that are involved with these modules... now heres the catch, I teach full time so can only study at night time and at the weekends... does anyone know where I can do these modules...

Also Ive 2 years maths complete so if anyone has had their DCU Biotechnology degree assessed before, do you know what modules I need to do... Ive already paid 200 euro for nothing so Im reluctant to pay another 200 to them again for Maths..

Any info would be great, thanks!!!