HBO [US] Boardwalk Empire **Spoilers**

Lemlin

The two guys loitering ahead of Nucky when Tommy shot him - I thought they were Lucciano's assassins but did one have a badge? I thought I saw it flashed when they were holding Tommy.

I think BE has been a great show but I would have preferred to see less focus on characters like Gillian and Margaret over some of the series'.

Gyp was definitely the best character!

leggo

K4t wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that rather than expose a paedophile ring, Nucky in fact chose to facilitate it in order to further his career?

This is in no way an explanation, but I'd see it as a more shades of grey deal. He saw plausible deniability in choosing to accept their version of events (i.e. that it was an act of charity) when, in truth, he knew what the score was deep down. He was also very cleverly manipulated by The Commodore who allowed him to feel the misery of having his dreams crushed, before being offered those exact dreams on a plate. With that state of mind, it's a decision that none of us would ever admit, but I'd say a lot more people than you would think would take. Pedophiles tend to be master manipulators in order to keep their secrets...and Commodore did it in such a way that it was probably more likely for Nucky to accept.

Soft Falling Rain

K4t wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that rather than expose a paedophile ring, Nucky in fact chose to facilitate it in order to further his career?

It's a bit more complicated. The Commodore basically owned Atlantic City, so even if Nucky went to the authorities (whoever they may be?), nothing would have been done and he probably would have been dead not long after.

Not that that is any kind of excuse but as others have said, the Commodore basically brought Nucky to his knees mentally speaking. Constantly goaded about being the good boy who always did the right thing, Nucky for once committed a horrible act to get himself what he wanted.

Nucky carried that guilt around, evident by looking after Jimmy and guiding him. Nucky thought he had given Jimmy everything he needed, that's what made Jimmy's betrayal so difficult for him.

Chocolate Lions

leggo wrote: »

This is in no way an explanation, but I'd see it as a more shades of grey deal. He saw plausible deniability in choosing to accept their version of events (i.e. that it was an act of charity) when, in truth, he knew what the score was deep down. He was also very cleverly manipulated by The Commodore who allowed him to feel the misery of having his dreams crushed, before being offered those exact dreams on a plate. With that state of mind, it's a decision that none of us would ever admit, but I'd say a lot more people than you would think would take. Pedophiles tend to be master manipulators in order to keep their secrets...and Commodore did it in such a way that it was probably more likely for Nucky to accept.

Garbage. It was clear the Commodore was a paedophile and the weight of what Nucky did was clearly demonstrated, it was obvious he knew, like anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

Paedophiles are not master manipulators. Fiddling kids is not genius work, and there's no one in the world more easily taken advantage of than a child.

Also no, I would not pimp a fcuking child in any state of mind. Your whole post is completely wtf.

MagicMarker

It's TV lads. Relax.

ncmc

K4t wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that rather than expose a paedophile ring, Nucky in fact chose to facilitate it in order to further his career?

Yep, pretty much. It was always hinted at in previous series, but I think that moment is when Nucky 'turned' and set in motion the transformation from good guy into gangster. I think Nucky carried the guilt with him throughout his life and that's why he looked after Jimmy and why his betrayal was so devastating. Even though we knew what happened, I was willing him to look after Gillian and not set her up for such a tragic life.

I think it's fitting that the two final scenes where Nucky selling his soul to the commodore and then being killed, so basically the birth and death of the gangster.

tommy2bad

OK I just caught this on Sky so having been avoiding spoilers I was a bit surprised at the ending. More than surprised in face, disappointed and cheated describes it better.
So many good things in this ep the ending came as a cop out and nothing more than a bad trope from Little Caesar. We had a good set up for Nucky to leave with nothing but the money he had worked so hard for fully realizing that it was worthless now he had lost everything to get it. Nucky had no friends, no power, he couldn't help Gillian. lovely scene with All saying goodbye to his son, a good scene with Margret amply showing the regret Nucky had over that relationship and how little the money meant without it. Nucky and Gillian showing how powerless he had become
I got that the shooting had to be from someone unexpected but Tommy? Why? it gave no satisfaction or comment on Nuck'ys story. If they were going down the Little Caesar route it could have been any random stranger, all that mattered was that Nucky was blindsided.
I felt the shooting was not needed and only undid the pathos of Nuckys end. As NCMC said showing the birth and death of a gangster intercut, seems to have been irresistible to the writers. Unimaginative and unnecessary, we had already seen Nucky ruined and alone.

Chocolate Lions

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's TV lads. Relax.

The issues aren't, you wouldn't want to be too relaxed - making excuses for child prostitution is not on.

Clareman

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

The issues aren't, you wouldn't want to be too relaxed - making excuses for child prostitution is not on.

J@ysus don't watch Breaking Bad, the whole drug thing will drive you crazy altogether.

BMMachine

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

The issues aren't, you wouldn't want to be too relaxed - making excuses for child prostitution is not on.

he wasnt making excuses. he was discussing the narrative of the tv show boardwalk empire.

jcsoulinger

ncmc wrote: »

Yep, pretty much. It was always hinted at in previous series, but I think that moment is when Nucky 'turned' and set in motion the transformation from good guy into gangster. I think Nucky carried the guilt with him throughout his life and that's why he looked after Jimmy and why his betrayal was so devastating. Even though we knew what happened, I was willing him to look after Gillian and not set her up for such a tragic life.

I think it's fitting that the two final scenes where Nucky selling his soul to the commodore and then being killed, so basically the birth and death of the gangster.

I don't think Nucky cared that much for jimmy, Eli also conspired to have him killed but didn't get clipped, nucky killed jimmy for more reasons than the betrayal.

MagicMarker

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

The issues aren't, you wouldn't want to be too relaxed - making excuses for child prostitution is not on.

No one was doing that. Don't be so precious.

jcsoulinger

K4t wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that rather than expose a paedophile ring, Nucky in fact chose to facilitate it in order to further his career?

Yep but this not a new revelation we already knew this ages ago.

Chocolate Lions

MagicMarker wrote: »

No one was doing that. Don't be so precious.

They were close. It's right there in the post above, darling. :rolleyes:

The Strawman Argument

It's a shame the show got cut short, I felt it was only really coming towards finding its footing during season 4 after 3 tremendously boring and meandering seasons.


Highlight of it all (beyond being gorgeous visually) was Shea Whigham as Eli, guy's been really good in the few things I've seen him (Take Shelter, True Detective, American Hustle) in and he was always fantastic in this. Hope he gets some more chances to shine in other things and maybe a chance or two at lead role.

P.Walnuts

The Strawman Argument wrote: »

It's a shame the show got cut short, I felt it was only really coming towards finding its footing during season 4 after 3 tremendously boring and meandering seasons.


Highlight of it all (beyond being gorgeous visually) was Shea Whigham as Eli, guy's been really good in the few things I've seen him (Take Shelter, True Detective, American Hustle) in and he was always fantastic in this. Hope he gets some more chances to shine in other things and maybe a chance or two at lead role.

Season 3 meandering and boring??

Clareman

For me Boardwalk started to jump the shark when they went from a clear antagonist who had been setup for a few seasons (Jimmy) to a "baddie" of the season type of setup. The intrigued/politics of the Commodore/Jimmy/Gillian from the first couple of seasons were brilliant.

MagicMarker

I disagree. I said at the time Jimmy was killed off that it would never be the same again, but from there is only got better imo.

Clareman

There was nothing else for Jimmy to do. I think the whole thing was getting better because it was growing out of Atlantic City and was getting into the whole mobster thing, the best scene still has to be when they were in the back of the truck and the part where Al turned up.

leggo

Chocolate Lions wrote: »

Garbage. It was clear the Commodore was a paedophile and the weight of what Nucky did was clearly demonstrated, it was obvious he knew, like anyone who wasn't brain dead would.

Paedophiles are not master manipulators. Fiddling kids is not genius work, and there's no one in the world more easily taken advantage of than a child.

Also no, I would not pimp a fcuking child in any state of mind. Your whole post is completely wtf.

:pac:

...well I'm glad the show has such a profound emotional impact on you. That's a credit to it to be fair. And, as pointed out, I clearly wasn't suggesting that you would pimp out a child at any stage.

I was discussing the motives behind Nucky's choice and stating that he had plausible deniability in making a decision that greatly benefitted him, having been manipulated literally seconds prior to feel the devastation that said decision going the other way would have on him. I was saying it's easy to understand how an essentially good person could make such an awful choice given the emotions that played out in that moment. That's not the same as saying that it's acceptable or the right decision, the scene was spliced with another that saw him getting murdered for ultimately making that decision. It was essentially the trigger that led him from being the morally sound person in the flashbacks to the greedy mobster walking through his former kingdom wondering when he'd be clipped.

Everyone, including myself, the writers and all posters here, agrees that it was a horrible thing to do. But what makes it more unnerving is how relatable it is. I think everyone except yourself has seemed to get that that's what I meant. It'd be a terribly simply world if it was all as black-and-white as you seem to think: this is a powerful illustration of a good person being morally compromised in the heat of the moment then, in the end, paying for it with his life.

P.S: I'm not giving The Commodore or pedophiles praise by calling them 'master manipulators'. Again, my use of the word pedophile alone is meant to insinuate that these are terrible people, I didn't think that needed to be spelled out. But in this instance this character was a high-profile member of the community who needed the discretion of others to carry out his evil deeds. He needed to coerce otherwise decent, intelligent people like young Nucky into complying with his lies. Look at Jimmy Savile's use of his fame, the national media, various charity organisations, the legal profession and even the royal family to cover up his own lies for a real-life application of this. The crime is so heinous that it requires a mastermind plot for someone to get away with it. And, for clarity, that's not a good thing...that's an illustration of how more horrific it all is than it appears at face value.

DoYouEvenLift

Just finished it tonight. Gonna take a while to think it all over but definitely one of my new favourite shows, didn't expect much else from a HBO show.

Got goosebumps when the kid at the end turned out to be Tommy! I was wondering though, how did he know it was Nucky that killed his father to get revenge? Only thing I could think of is when Richard and him used to talk late at night, maybe he had explained it all to him then. Or else I missed something?

I fuking loved Richard also. Such a brilliant and unique character. Silent but deadly in his ways. Felt like crying when

he had his scope on Narcisse's head and suddenly Chalky's daughter stepped in front. Instantly knew sh!t was gonna hit the fan for him and the scene where it showed him walking up to the house and his wife and Tommy and the grandfather were on the porch was beautiful.

His absolute rampage in season 3 is also one of the GOAT scenes in television history. It was so insane and felt like something that could pass as a scene from a Tarantino movie.


The production, quality and acting of this show, like various other HBO shows, is unmatched by any other network's shows besides HBO's. Really goes to show what a premium network they are. Because of them and shows like this and The Wire and GoT I prefer TV than movies nowadays.


Also,

one thing I didn't like was Mickey's death. It was pretty much an "okay, that happened now let's quickly move on and not acknowledge it" scenario. He got shot in the fuking throat too! Really liked him and he was in all seasons so I wish they'd have had a bit more for his death.

Van Alden also one of my favourite characters ever lmao, Michael Shannon is excellent. He was so serious and uptight that it was comical at times and had me cracking up. So many unique and amusing characters in this show it's hard to even remember them all.

_Kaiser_

Clareman wrote: »

and the part where Al turned up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5u2OmztSs0

Ah yes, that was brilliant - Capone's smirk and the cigar just makes the scene IMO - plus it leads to an epic finalé .. how some people say season 3 wasn't the best of this show is beyond me!

ShaneU

The most shocking moment that stands out for me has got to be

Eoghan in a box

closely followed by

Eoghan killing some guy in a toilet with a garotte and his fingers cut off eugh

walshb

Best scene in the show has to be Chalky and Gyp's meeting! Stunning!

Season 3 was one of the greatest tv seasons ever!

walshb

As for brutal scenes I thought Tonino's cousin getting killed was horrendous.

kellso81

Owen's death and return in the box was one of my favorite moments of tv ever!
I had avoided reading up on real life events as I didn't want any spoilers but reading about luciano this morning, after everything he went through, he didn't get long at the top! He was jailed 3-4 yrs after the events depicted in boardwalk, then extradited after he was released. I know he was still involved from afar but couldn't have had that much influence from so far away. Is this right?

GAAman

The people confused about the final scene

Tommy said at the end his grandmother (can't remember the specific nickname) told him about nucky and his father, obviously she told him about his death.

Richard wouldn't have told tommy, as he wanted to keep him away from that life

yabadabado

kellso81 wrote: »

Owen's death and return in the box was one of my favorite moments of tv ever!
I had avoided reading up on real life events as I didn't want any spoilers but reading about luciano this morning, after everything he went through, he didn't get long at the top! He was jailed 3-4 yrs after the events depicted in boardwalk, then extradited after he was released. I know he was still involved from afar but couldn't have had that much influence from so far away. Is this right?

Depending what you read on Lucky ,he had plenty of influence after extradition.
I would love to see a spin off series with Lucky,Meyer and Bugsy .

DoYouEvenLift

walshb wrote: »

As for brutal scenes I thought Tonino's cousin getting killed was horrendous.

And Eli killing the guy in his garage, ***GAME OF THRONES SPOILER:***

was similar to the prince's death in season 4 against the mountain when it showed the head absolutely crushed. I was cringing hard as fuk for both, stuff like that is needed in shows though, really emerges you in the show and explicitly shows you just how bad the people are, whereas shows on sh!ttier networks can't even include curses or mediocre violence which ruins the experience

leggo

The scene with a bloody, naked Gyp walking through the house after a failed assassination attempt on him is one that's stuck with me. Brilliantly shot. It'd fit comfortably into any horror movie.