Bipolar Disorder ask a question/discussion thread

nesf

I'm a bipolar sufferer for the best part of 15 years. I've been medicated for almost the past 10 and have spent a lot of time reading about the condition, the medication and factors and issues surrounding the illness.

I thought that a general thread for people to ask questions about the condition would be useful. We can't give you medical advice but we can try to answer questions of a more practical nature such as ideas on dealing with the strong urges to spend money during manias or how to explain psychosis to people. We could also try to provide some level of support and understanding about the condition and the effect it has on people's lives.

Hopefully other people will join in in this thread and we can get a good resource for people going rather than having information and posts split across multiple threads.


So, eh, any questions?

LegacyUser

I started to feel something was not right 8 years ago and this was first diagnosed as depression but later when I attended a psychiatrist bipolar disorder. I never had real highs although I always made big purchases like a new car when I was up but I sometimes think this was just because I was too lethargic to do anything significant when I was down. Now I feel my medication keeps me at an even level but a lot lower than I would like to be.

My biggest problem is sleep and having a regular sleep pattern - usually I cannot get to sleep and then I oversleep the next day. It's a viscious circle. Recently I have started using Melatonin I got in America and it has been the biggest help to me since I was diagnosed. I get to sleep in under an hour now but I still cannot get up early in the morning although now I get up at 11 instead of 1-2pm. I have been of work for a long time now and worry that I am becoming used to this. I also feel embarrassed about this because outwardly I appear fine to people and so I hide the fact that I do not work from most people and I think this puts extra pressure on me to "cover my tracks".

I just wonder if anyone has any tips on how to get a consistent night's sleep?

Queen-Mise

I think the title of this thread should include long term depression. As both are similiar, well the downs are anyway:-)

I agree with above poster. For me depression is a real disability, seriously affecting my life and what I can do. And it doesnt look that way from the outside - have use of all my limbs, relatively healthy. Sometimes I find it emberassing. I find it very frustrating generally.

nesf

bptoo wrote: »

I started to feel something was not right 8 years ago and this was first diagnosed as depression but later when I attended a psychiatrist bipolar disorder. I never had real highs although I always made big purchases like a new car when I was up but I sometimes think this was just because I was too lethargic to do anything significant when I was down. Now I feel my medication keeps me at an even level but a lot lower than I would like to be.

My biggest problem is sleep and having a regular sleep pattern - usually I cannot get to sleep and then I oversleep the next day. It's a viscious circle. Recently I have started using Melatonin I got in America and it has been the biggest help to me since I was diagnosed. I get to sleep in under an hour now but I still cannot get up early in the morning although now I get up at 11 instead of 1-2pm. I have been of work for a long time now and worry that I am becoming used to this. I also feel embarrassed about this because outwardly I appear fine to people and so I hide the fact that I do not work from most people and I think this puts extra pressure on me to "cover my tracks".

I just wonder if anyone has any tips on how to get a consistent night's sleep?

I've similar problems with making large purchases when even just slightly up. I lose whatever bit of sense I have about restraint. I don't necessarily buy stupid things but I definitely am too quick to spend and buy.

Regular sleep is extremely hard to pin down with bipolar. Sometimes you can get decent results by being very strict with "sleep hygiene." This entails setting a time to try and get to sleep and then ensuring that you are in bed with very little or no light on for a half an hour to an hour beforehand as well as avoiding caffeine and other stimulants like nicotine during this period. Some people get great results with this, some (like myself) don't. It'd definitely worth trying and completely safe.

I'd strongly suggest bringing up your sleep issues with your psychiatrist and well as bringing up that you're feeling a bit flat/low on your meds despite being stable.

nesf

Queen-Mise wrote: »

I agree with above poster. For me depression is a real disability, seriously affecting my life and what I can do. And it doesnt look that way from the outside - have use of all my limbs, relatively healthy. Sometimes I find it emberassing. I find it very frustrating generally.

Yeah, I know that feeling. Sometimes I wish I'd inherited some obvious physical disability instead, so people could see that I've problems.

galah

I have been exposed to bipolar episodes as a family member-in-law, and I have a question (first of all, thanks for providing this medium!).

When you're high, and you say things (either really 'out there' things like 'I'm the worlds' greatest rockstar' or personal things, such as insults) - do you remember these when you are coming down? Would you remember the "crazy" things you talked about, and the nasty things you may have said in your high phase? Are they part of your long-term memory?
(for example, do you realise that it's always the same stuff you talk about when you're high?)

Cheers!

ntlbell

I've heard a lot of people mention spending money and mania's

have you looked into this? any idea why there's a link?

tbh

nesf wrote: »

I've similar problems with making large purchases when even just slightly up. I lose whatever bit of sense I have about restraint. I don't necessarily buy stupid things but I definitely am too quick to spend and buy.

do you know when that's happening, and are powerless to do anything about it, or is it a case of you only realise after the high has passed?

nesf

tbh wrote: »

do you know when that's happening, and are powerless to do anything about it, or is it a case of you only realise after the high has passed?

Both really. Sometimes I maintain enough perspective to spot it, often I don't. I depend a lot on my wife to stop me from spending too much. We've developed a system, any large purchases (i.e. over 100 euro) need to be run past her first.

I still overspend but it's kept manageable and doesn't make a big dent in our finances. Without her help I know that I'd burn through whatever I income I got.

tbh

nesf wrote: »

Both really. Sometimes I maintain enough perspective to spot it, often I don't. I depend a lot on my wife to stop me from spending too much. We've developed a system, any large purchases (i.e. over 100 euro) need to be run past her first.

I still overspend but it's kept manageable and doesn't make a big dent in our finances. Without her help I know that I'd burn through whatever I income I got.

how about when you're in a low cycle nesf - is it something you can recognise as something transitory, or does each time feel like the first?

nesf

ntlbell wrote: »

I've heard a lot of people mention spending money and mania's

have you looked into this? any idea why there's a link?

It works similarly to how alcohol strips you of inhibitions. When you're manic you lose the inhibitions you normally have. You take risks you normally wouldn't. You spend more money. When single you'll sleep with anyone who'll take you (sometimes even driving a heterosexual individual into homosexual encounters and similar).

It's somewhat similar to a normal person taking a load of cocaine or similar and the behaviours that result. In fact many of the drugs used to bring mania down in a person can be given to someone under the effects of stimulants like cocaine to bring them down.

This is just one side to mania though, there are others.

nesf

tbh wrote: »

how about when you're in a low cycle nesf - is it something you can recognise as something transitory, or does each time feel like the first?

Again a bit of both. Your mind slows down, literally. You don't "solve puzzles" as easily. So when you do go down you might not put two and two together and spot that you're down. Especially if you have the kind of depressions that involve loss of interest/enjoyment rather than classical low emotions i.e. "feeling depressed."

Queen-Mise

tbh wrote: »

do you know when that's happening, and are powerless to do anything about it, or is it a case of you only realise after the high has passed?

I am open to correction here. When you make the purchase they makes sense and 'normal' thing to do. Powerless Wouldnt be quite the word to use - its not a delusion per se, it makes sense and reasonable.

tbh

nesf wrote: »

Especially if you have the kind of depressions that involve loss of interest/enjoyment rather than classical low emotions i.e. "feeling depressed."

that's really interesting, I didn't know about that.

Queen-Mise

galah wrote: »

I have been exposed to bipolar episodes as a family member-in-law, and I have a question (first of all, thanks for providing this medium!).

When you're high, and you say things (either really 'out there' things like 'I'm the worlds' greatest rockstar' or personal things, such as insults) - do you remember these when you are coming down? Would you remember the "crazy" things you talked about, and the nasty things you may have said in your high phase? Are they part of your long-term memory?
(for example, do you realise that it's always the same stuff you talk about when you're high?)

Cheers!

I say things when down that would be worrying to those around.

As for remembering them only vaguely because for me it meant sense at the time and seemed 'normal' (:$).

I Wouldnt particularly remember them the same way I Wouldnt remember the exact details of call with my mother or a friend, someone in a shop. This is further complicated because of depression, I Dont really care/or the energy to. So I am less likely to remember again.

Queen-Mise

nesf wrote: »

Again a bit of both. Your mind slows down, literally. You don't "solve puzzles" as easily. So when you do go down you might not put two and two together and spot that you're down. Especially if you have the kind of depressions that involve loss of interest/enjoyment rather than classical low emotions i.e. "feeling depressed."

I have the first kind of depression you described there, very annoying when ppl start talking about it as if it is the second kind. 'oh your having a bad day' - no I am having a bad 2 years.
.
As you can see I am definitely in a resentment/anger stage :-):-)

Queen-Mise

Another question ye do ye smoke - is there anything that helps you cope with the illness.

I started smoking again last thurs, I had put down a hellish week in my head. My head comes under pressure till all I want to do is stay in bed etc. I needed some relief. The smoking really helped - which is annoying me more.

Any experience or tips with that.

nesf

galah wrote: »

I have been exposed to bipolar episodes as a family member-in-law, and I have a question (first of all, thanks for providing this medium!).

When you're high, and you say things (either really 'out there' things like 'I'm the worlds' greatest rockstar' or personal things, such as insults) - do you remember these when you are coming down? Would you remember the "crazy" things you talked about, and the nasty things you may have said in your high phase? Are they part of your long-term memory?
(for example, do you realise that it's always the same stuff you talk about when you're high?)

Cheers!

Sometimes I remember them. Sometimes I don't. I definitely have poor memory when it comes to remembering details of a mania. I forget a lot of stuff. There are a variety of reasons for this, mostly I blame higher adrenaline levels during mania for my memory loss over the period but that's just a baseless theory. I think the problem is in the formation of memories rather than losses of long term memories, as in, if I remember something I don't lose that memory. It's a binary situation I just remember stuff or I don't, I don't seem to remember stuff and then lose that memory later on any more than with memories from non-manic periods.

nesf

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Another question ye do ye smoke - is there anything that helps you cope with the illness.

I started smoking again last thurs, I had put down a hellish week in my head. My head comes under pressure till all I want to do is stay in bed etc. I needed some relief. The smoking really helped - which is annoying me more.

Any experience or tips with that.

I'm not convinced that smoking helps me or anyone else. What I do know is that if you have depression, bipolar of schizophrenia you are many times more likely to be a smoker than if you didn't have said illnesses. Why this is the case is, as far as I know, still unknown though there are theories about it being an attempt at self-medication.

nesf

tbh wrote: »

that's really interesting, I didn't know about that.

There are two clinical symptoms where one (or both) need to be there for someone to be diagnosable as having depression. Plus a bunch of other symptoms but one of the two of these is mandatory (plus these need to be there for at least two weeks, just feeling sad for a few days is perfectly normal mentally!):


(1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.

(2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)

You can be clinically depressed and very rarely actually feel sad. This is something practically unknown outside of those in the profession or sufferers with primarily (2) type of depression (I'm one of those people, I don't really feel sad very often, I just lose interest in pretty much everything and just find ways to kill time between periods of sleep).

sam34

nesf wrote: »

I'm not convinced that smoking helps me or anyone else. What I do know is that if you have depression, bipolar of schizophrenia you are many times more likely to be a smoker than if you didn't have said illnesses. Why this is the case is, as far as I know, still unknown though there are theories about it being an attempt at self-medication.

yep, i remember one consultant saying to me that "11 out of 10 schizophrenics smoke"

i think most people think of it as self-medication, an attempt to calm the nerves (for want of a better phrase)

also, it may be partly caused by teh fact that if someone is admitted to hospital, the smoking room is the happening place to be! i'd imagine a lot of people start smoking during a psychiatric admission.

nesf

sam34 wrote: »

yep, i remember one consultant saying to me that "11 out of 10 schizophrenics smoke"

i think most people think of it as self-medication, an attempt to calm the nerves (for want of a better phrase)

also, it may be partly caused by teh fact that if someone is admitted to hospital, the smoking room is the happening place to be! i'd imagine a lot of people start smoking during a psychiatric admission.

I started smoking at 18. Just tried it when out and found it relieved my anxiety because it gave me something to do with my hands. It was a really stupid thing to do but still hooked 11 years later and having extreme difficulty quitting. I can get off them when manic and then end up back on them as soon as I get depressed (I don't get remission periods of normal mood, I just go from mania to depression and back again constantly, well it's more complex than that, I might go into it at some point).

ntlbell

nesf wrote: »

I can get off them when manic and then end up back on them as soon as I get depressed (I don't get remission periods of normal mood, I just go from mania to depression and back again constantly, well it's more complex than that, I might go into it at some point).

When you say this, do you mean if you didn't medicate?

Or is this a constant state for you medication or no medication?

I was under the impression that with the vast majority of cases that once the right synergy with the medication was found that's the end of the ups and downs? is this not the case?

does the medication only make each of them less concentrated or?

nesf

ntlbell wrote: »

When you say this, do you mean if you didn't medicate?

Or is this a constant state for you medication or no medication?

I was under the impression that with the vast majority of cases that once the right synergy with the medication was found that's the end of the ups and downs? is this not the case?

does the medication only make each of them less concentrated or?

I still cycle through mania and depression when medicated. The manias and depressions are far less severe. We're still working on my medication but I'd be unusual in this respect. Most people find a drug or combination of drugs that works fairly quickly, a small enough minority don't. I'm one of said minority.

Undoubtedly though, without medication I'd be a lot worse. They might only at this point be a partial treatment but untreated my life would be a lot worse.

sam34

ntlbell wrote: »

When you say this, do you mean if you didn't medicate?

Or is this a constant state for you medication or no medication?

I was under the impression that with the vast majority of cases that once the right synergy with the medication was found that's the end of the ups and downs? is this not the case?

does the medication only make each of them less concentrated or?

generally, you dont get an end to the highs and lows as such, meds or no meds

bipolar is a relapsing and remitting illness

without meds, its likely people will have longer episodes of illness and more frequent episodes

but even with meds, they can still relapse

Queen-Mise

Yup same for me. The meds stop the worst of it. But then im not happy with my situation at the moment. Anything close to a normal life isnt available to me. Im surviving and thats it. Im not sure if it is time for meds to work or some tinkering is needed.

nesf

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Yup same for me. The meds stop the worst of it. But then im not happy with my situation at the moment. Anything close to a normal life isnt available to me. Im surviving and thats it. Im not sure if it is time for meds to work or some tinkering is needed.

The only person who can help you with this is your psychiatrist I'm afraid.

Queen-Mise

nesf wrote: »

The only person who can help you with this is your psychiatrist I'm afraid.

oh yeah I know that - i am finding it really frustrating at the moment.

do you have a problem with moods in general ??

nesf

Queen-Mise wrote: »

do you have a problem with moods in general ??

Sometimes. It's more energy levels that get me. I'm not "moody" as people, I more get very quiet and subdued when low etc.

bob50

Yes nesf i coulndt agree more with mental illness its nearlys always hidden and unless you talk to someone who knows about it people think your just making it up

_Whimsical_

Fair play Nesf for making the thread. It's very generous of you to share your experience like this.

I was just wondering when you said that you were suffering from bipolar for 15 years and treated for 10, what was life like for the other 5 years where you weren't treated or diagnosed? Was the 5 delay in getting treated because the onset of the illness was gradual and was diagnosed late ?