Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

Sully

Since it seems to be official, and most people seem to know, the exam results are not being formalised until at least, if not later, week 7. This means while they are corrected they are not formalised by the various boards. This is due to the lecturers union requesting the delay until payments are issued, which were stopped, in relation to the exams.

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alpha2zulu

Thats a bit of a kick in the teeth to say the least. So are we talking the earliest they will come out now being the week of Feb 8th?

Since it seems to be official, and most people seem to know,

Nobody in our final year class has mentioned it yet.

This is due to the lecturers union requesting the delay until payments are issued, which were stopped, in relation to the exams.

Is this just sabre rattling by the Unions? I doubt Batt O'Keefe gives two hoots about when WIT students get their results somehow:rolleyes:

Sully

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Thats a bit of a kick in the teeth to say the least. So are we talking the earliest they will come out now being the week of Feb 8th?

From what we were told, yes. Prior to this, I never got a date.

Nobody in our final year class has mentioned it yet.

Seems like a lot of people know and some lecturers are telling their students.

Is this just sabre rattling by the Unions? I doubt Batt O'Keefe gives two hoots about when WIT students get their results somehow:rolleyes:

Its an issue over payments from what we were told. That's all we were officially told anyway.

AdMMM

College has been overpaying lecturers to correct exams and finally get their payroll department in order only to have the union go off on another one. Had they not been paid at all then I'd have some sympathy for them. Seems that no matter what way we turn, we're being treated like pawns by the union leaders.

We've been told that we'll be given our results "unofficially" should there be a dispute.

Clano

AdMMM wrote: »

College has been overpaying lecturers to correct exams and finally get their payroll department in order only to have the union go off on another one. Had they not been paid at all then I'd have some sympathy for them. Seems that no matter what way we turn, we're being treated like pawns by the union leaders.

Exactly!!! im so sick of the ****e that goes on down there, i dont hear about half the problems iv encountered in other colleges! i cant wait to get out of there in may!!!

alpha2zulu

Clano wrote: »

Exactly!!! im so sick of the ****e that goes on down there, i dont hear about half the problems iv encountered in other colleges! i cant wait to get out of there in may!!!

Thats exactly it, 4 years of this WIT admin and staff drivel just wears ya down. Out in the 'real' world crap like this just doesent fly. I dont know who the Union linchpins in the college are amongst the lectureing staff but no doubt they are the same ones who seem to spend half their day quaffing croissants in the gallery.:rolleyes:

Pity the Govt cant force the lecturers to stand outside and watch the social welfare office queues on dole days. Might help focus the minds....

shapez

The dispute has absolutely nothing to do with WIT admin staff. It is to do with a majority of lecturers demanding 25E per exam paper to be corrected. And you would have thought that this would be part of their job, no? :rolleyes:

stick-dan

shapez wrote: »

The dispute has absolutely nothing to do with WIT admin staff. It is to do with a majority of lecturers demanding 25E per exam paper to be corrected. And you would have thought that this would be part of their job, no? :rolleyes:

tell ya one thing, i wanna be a lecturer. My god that is unbelievable money isn't it.

alpha2zulu

stick-dan wrote: »

tell ya one thing, i wanna be a lecturer. My god that is unbelievable money isn't it.

I know, fantastic isent it,I'm sure they must manage at least four per hour! No wonder the registartion fee is stuck at 1500 quid.

Murmurs from some of the lecturers about national industrial action starting in February again. Cant see how any of them deserve our support when so many of the lecturers are on salarys big enough to be telephone numbers and bullet proof contarcts:rolleyes: Hopefully our WITSU wont decide to row in behind the lecturers again.

Minto

This is starting to get on my nerves! The more I think of it, the angrier I get about it! The union (or whoever is behind this) are really screwing the final year students here. Now we're not going to know our results until halfway through the semester and for some, it may be too late to pull up averages. Poor showing tbh, really shows how certain lecturers (not all, some of them are great) or their superiors really couldn't care less about their students!

Ahem!

Just for the record.

I know for a fact that the lecturers do not get, nor are they 'demanding', anything like E25 per exam. In fact, the current rate is closer to around one fifth of that, and the Union has already shown a willingness to reduce it further.

It is also my information that the dispute is not primarily about the rate of pay for marking.

But you ain't seen me!

alpha2zulu

Ahem! wrote: »

.

It is also my information that the dispute is not primarily about the rate of pay for marking.

Care to enlighten us??

stick-dan

Well Ahem!

Sorry there now but hold your horses for a second.Your reply in defense of the lecturers and its general tone and the fact your a new boardsie screams out to me that your defending your union but thats neither here nor there. Weather or not this dispute is about pay or not it is an extremely poor showing on the lecturers behalf. As minto correctly pointed out there is no love-loss here for the lecturers because they are showing a lack of respect for their students with this recent dispute.

A lot of us here are fourth years as most would gather because we have been posting here for quite some time. With the utmost respect we have some absolutely fantastic lecturers that we have had the pleasure of working with and i would struggle to name one of them that I dislike or even the class for that matter but a line has to be drawn. Respect is increasingly being lost for lecturers with the recent strikes and now the refusal to hand out our examination marks. We paid for our exams so we deserve our results. It is a blatant breach of contract that we won't receive them back for ages and it is pi5sing the student body off to no lengths. Minto pointed out that some of us need our results to weigh up our averages, it's extremely unfair especially to final year students to pull this sort of stunt. Some of us need to know where we stand and are now in a state where we wont know anything. Our class was told in no uncertain terms that it would be week 7 before anything is sorted realistically. This is a complete sham. There is no-one we can turn to because if it is a union problem then the students union won't be able to do much, and we are going to be left without knowing our results.

We don't need the tone on here that the lecturers are only looking for pittance for correcting examination papers. We were told by quite a few lecturers last semester as many on this board can testify that whilst they had taken pay cuts they could still afford to take another although they didn't want to. This doesn't sound like people who should be arguing over financial matters. It's all one big joke in my opinion. It wouldn't be so bad if lecturers would unofficially release results but this can't even be done and that was made clear to us. Some lecturers are doing this but the majority wont release any results. It's a complete lack of respect to a student body who is supposed to be the most prized asset any educational institution has, a breach of contract in my opinion and well i'm disgusted to be honest.

I'm actually not looking to start a heated argument on this topic but i feel it needs to be said and i'll be saying it at the courseboards too. The lecturers doing this have let us down simply as and more than anything im just fed up and disappointed.Would've been nice to know where i stand.

alpha2zulu

stick-dan wrote: »

Well Ahem!

Some of us need to know where we stand and are now in a state where we wont know anything. Our class was told in no uncertain terms that it would be week 7 before anything is sorted realistically. This is a complete sham. There is no-one we can turn to because if it is a union problem then the students union won't be able to do much, and we are going to be left without knowing our results.

Thats it exactly, the current fourth years with a bit of luck should be attending interviews in February or March, whether here or abroad will have no answer if they are asked for their critical 4th year grades. Your immediately at a disadvantage compared to the competition from UCC/UCD etc.

The TUI branch secretary for WIT is Kathleen Moore Walsh. Certainly it can do no harm if enough of us contact her to make it very clear the anger and fustration amongst final year students of being held to ransom by the TUI union when it comes to getting our exam results. If we don't make ourselves heard over this nothing can be done.

wits2

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Thts it exactly, the current fourth years with a bit of luck should be attending interviews in February or March, whether here or abroad will have no answer if they are asked for their critical 4th year grades. Your immediately at a disadvantage compared to the competition from UCC/UCD etc.

The TUI branch secretary for WIT is Kathleen Moore Walsh. Certainly it can do no harm if enough of us contact her to make it very clear the anger and fustration amongst final year students of being held to ransom by the TUI union when it comes to getting our exam results. If we don't make ourselves heard over this nothing can be done.

Your right.. Play the lectures and that dam union at their own game.. Although i always find an angery email can get reults in this case I'd go alot more public... hmmm :rolleyes: What to do ??

alpha2zulu

wits2 wrote: »

Your right.. Play the lectures and that dam union at their own game.. Although i always find an angery email can get reults in this case I'd go alot more public... hmmm :rolleyes: What to do ??

Well the contact details are available with a very quick google, not sure of the rules regarding making it public here though. Certainly if they have 20 mails from students in their inbox tomorrow morning its a move in the right direction.

stick-dan

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Thts it exactly, the current fourth years with a bit of luck should be attending interviews in February or March, whether here or abroad will have no answer if they are asked for their critical 4th year grades. Your immediately at a disadvantage compared to the competition from UCC/UCD etc.

The TUI branch secretary for WIT is Kathleen Moore Walsh. Certainly it can do no harm if enough of us contact her to make it very clear the anger and fustration amongst final year students of being held to ransom by the TUI union when it comes to getting our exam results. If we don't make ourselves heard over this nothing can be done.

Would there be enough interest to circulate an online petition and then once a certain amount of signatures are reached we could email it in?

Email address for her to my inbox would be nice please and thanks. Don't put in online as it will be taken down under boards terms. I'll certainly forward an email once all the talk is verified and i have the honest facts.

stick-dan

before this moves on further, lets keep everything above board and in the realms of reality so that any protest that would be made could not be pulled apart in any way.

wits2

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Well the contact details are available with a very quick google, not sure of the rules regarding making it public here though. Certainly if they have 20 mails from students in their inbox tomorrow morning its a move in the right direction.

Thats still only one person reading them emails...
wrong direction to make a difference...

stick-dan

wits2 wrote: »

Thats still only one person reading them emails...
wrong direction to make a difference...

I agree but whats the alternative? Seriously like. I know many students (including myself) are stressing over results and that stress will hinder progress in this semester if we are to be made wait. It's wrong. I'm personally sick as i know others are of hearing, put it out of your head and work away. It doesn't work like that.

alpha2zulu

stick-dan wrote: »

I agree but whats the alternative? Seriously like. I know many students (including myself) are stressing over results and that stress will hinder progress in this semester if we are to be made wait. It's wrong. I'm personally sick as i know others are of hearing, put it out of your head and work away. It doesn't work like that.

The online petition idea or facebook group could be a start. Its probably the easiest way of getting volume quickly. E-mailing would work well but without been able to post it on here its impact is going to be limited.

In addition to that is it even worth thinking about any of the local politicians. Off the top of my head, in the city I know Cllr John Cummins takes a great interest in whats going on in the college area or even Mayor Halligan. Anyone basically who could make a bit of noise on this and I doubt there would be any issue posting e-mail addresses of public reps on here surely.

Minto

This could be unrelated, but I saw posters around the business building (and I'm sure they are everywhere) about an emergency class rep council tomorrow, so maybe we might have some more details by tomorrow night! I think Sully is a rep and there must be a few more on here.

Then again, it could just be about all the free hugs being given out this week by the SU :P:P

stick-dan

Minto wrote: »

This could be unrelated, but I saw posters around the business building (and I'm sure they are everywhere) about an emergency class rep council tomorrow, so maybe we might have some more details by tomorrow night! I think Sully is a rep and there must be a few more on here.

Then again, it could just be about all the free hugs being given out this week by the SU :P:P

no im our rep not sully, i wasnt informed... i'll look tomorrow

edit : there is one tomorrow just found out, i'll head into it and give a heads up. how i missed the posters i'll never know

liar

Id just like to bring some balance to the argument by saying that if any of you were lecturers wouldnt you try to hold on to what was owed to you. I realise we all have to take a hit with the way things are going (f**k it i cant even afford to pay rent this week).
Bashing unions isnt the way to go as most of us will join/need them in the future, they serve a purpose and it seems completely fascist to say that unions and lecturers are not looking out for students. Im well acquainted with a shop Stuart (not in WIT) and i know that they only ever take serious action when absolutely necessary and im sure most lecturers dont want to go ahead with this but feel they have to.
The first public service pay packets came out recently and there could be more strikes on the way, i dont know if this affects lecturers but i know most essential services in the country will be hit if it happens

Sully

stick-dan wrote: »

no im our rep not sully, i wasnt informed... i'll look tomorrow

edit : there is one tomorrow just found out, i'll head into it and give a heads up. how i missed the posters i'll never know

Your not a rep officially. You never signed up, took part in any of the events nor attended any training... So you would not be on the list for the text. There is no rep assigned to our class since I stopped since you never agreed with the SU anyway.

Iv begun attending them for other reasons, not connected with the class. Ill be there tommrow to here the latest as there should be an update in the morning with regards to this mess. The posters only went up today.

As for bringing balance - sorry but the lecturers were being paid better then other colleges. Much better. Double effectively. Now its time to go back with what should have been the norm when semesters came in. It should be covered fairly well in next weeks campus times (out on Monday).

stick-dan

Sully wrote: »

Your not a rep officially. You never signed up, took part in any of the events nor attended any training... So you would not be on the list for the text. There is no rep assigned to our class since I stopped since you never agreed with the SU anyway.

Iv begun attending them for other reasons, not connected with the class. Ill be there tommrow to here the latest as there should be an update in the morning with regards to this mess. The posters only went up today.

As for bringing balance - sorry but the lecturers were being paid better then other colleges. Much better. Double effectively. Now its time to go back with what should have been the norm when semesters came in. It should be covered fairly well in next weeks campus times (out on Monday).

Being registered with the students union or not makes no difference to me acting as a rep.I speak up for my class frequently and talk to the lecturers about various issues.it's my suspicion the meeting today will be all about "hey guys what should we do?" and nothing else will come of that.there is little or no value in attending the meeting IMO but on the other hand the course boards where I'll be will be the place to voice opinions/concern/disgust.anyway no more talk about the students union.the matter at hand is much
more important so let's concentrate on that rather than focusing who is on the students union.

To the guy above who supported the lecturers just because we will all join a union doesn't mean we'll like it or agree with it.it's
unfair especially to the final year students who need results.

beegirl

Firstly, €25 is nonsense. It was €7.99, now it's half of that. It used to be €7.99 for one 3 hour exam, now it's €3.98 for a 2-hour exam. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 2 is not half of 3!!! Therefore cutting the rate in half makes no sense to begin with...

Imagine if you had a job, you did the work, but all of a sudden you don't see any money for the best part of a year. Then your boss turns around and says "well ok I'll give you half of what I owe you - tough luck about the rest". For the record, the money is not the issue - the issue is that lecturers' terms and conditions are changed without any consultation whatsoever.

Anyway, from somebody who is both a student and a part-time lecturer I do feel sympathy for how unnerving it must be not to know your results. At the same time I understand the lecturers' side where they feel they have to take a stand on this issue or risk many more (worse and more serious) changes to their terms and conditions down the line.

stick-dan

beegirl wrote: »

Firstly, €25 is nonsense. It was €7.99, now it's half of that. It used to be €7.99 for one 3 hour exam, now it's €3.98 for a 2-hour exam. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 2 is not half of 3!!! Therefore cutting the rate in half makes no sense to begin with...

Imagine if you had a job, you did the work, but all of a sudden you don't see any money for the best part of a year. Then your boss turns around and says "well ok I'll give you half of what I owe you - tough luck about the rest". For the record, the money is not the issue - the issue is that lecturers' terms and conditions are changed without any consultation whatsoever.

Anyway, from somebody who is both a student and a part-time lecturer I do feel sympathy for how unnerving it must be not to know your results. At the same time I understand the lecturers' side where they feel they have to take a stand on this issue or risk many more (worse and more serious) changes to their terms and conditions down the line.

well i do feel that an exception should be made for the final year students, i realise the results aren't finalised yet but an indication at this early stage would be nice for us.

Sully

stick-dan wrote: »

Being registered with the students union or not makes no difference to me acting as a rep.I speak up for my class frequently and talk to the lecturers about various issues.

I would disagree with you there In general, maybe you are right but when it comes to more serious issues - you cant work without the unions support.

it's my suspicion the meeting today will be all about "hey guys what should we do?" and nothing else will come of that.there is little or no value in attending the meeting IMO but on the other hand the course boards where I'll be will be the place to voice opinions/concern/disgust.anyway no more talk about the students union.the matter at hand is much
more important so let's concentrate on that rather than focusing who is on the students union.

Well as you attended the meeting you will see that the union came in fully prepared. They knew the facts and informed the meeting exactly what happened and how it stands. They had a set of options they recommended people went with and this was decided on. The unions statement was done and delivered first thing today to both the TUI and College Management.

With the SU being the biggest union in the college - they must be doing something right. The problem is with people who sit around and just have a go at them for "doing nothing" when the last few unions I have experienced have been doing very good work. The SU meetings have always been (in my experience) generally productive and a lot more then "hey guys what should we do?" with no outcome. I can not comment on previous unions.

You know me Dan, if I feel that someone is not doing what they should be doing I wont be long about calling them on it and would not get behind them.

Anyway, for those unable to attend or whose class rep did not attend::
- Dispute ongoing between TUI (lecturers union) and college management,
- Dispute is over the payment structure of exams,
- Originally before semesters came in a sum of money was paid for correction of exams,
- This sum of money came on top of a fully paid week where lecturers did not have any interaction with students and used the week for the correction of exams,
- Government cut all college budgets to save money,
- College looked over expenditure and identified one of the biggest issues was the payment for exam corrections,
- Cut this payment in half, giving notice to lecturers early summer who (I believe it may have been their union) refused to deal with it because it was their summer break,
- TUI instructed lecturers to not hand in the 'green and whites' which is a page containing student details and their results,
- Exams ARE corrected but NOT official as they must go before different boards and these results MAY change. The 'green and white' are in the hands of lecturers and the college therefore can not process our results,
- The TUI members (lecturers) held a meeting on Wednesday and voted in favour to keep the green and white until dispute is resolved,
- They also agreed to hold a ballot for industrial action,
- Both parties are now at a stand-off as neither will agree to any offer they have put on the table.

Thats the quick and dirty version of it. Some extra detail below.

- It is understood that 20 years ago the Department of Education advised colleges to change the payment structure for the correction of exams when semesters are introduced,
- Most colleges split the payment in half and paid it over the two semesters,
- One college increased the payment before splitting it to cover any additional workload caused by semesterisation,
- WIT doubled this payment as agreed with the TUI. Which meant that lecturers were paid the same payment twice per year,
- National budget cuts and the college needed to look over finances,
- College noticed that these extra payments needed to be stopped as they can no longer afford to pay them. They did so, as explained earlier.
- TUI claim this is a breach of procedure - the nationally agreed 'grievance procedure' where the status quo ante must remain the same. As the college pulled the payment from them during a dispute, they now refuse any offer from the college,
- TUI requesting the college return the full payment and enter negotiations. Possible problem with this:- The TUI would get their members full pay and could go into negotiations for several more years before deciding to seek the help of the Labour Relations Commission who would decide what needs to be done. If the college can not afford to pay this and are forced - they would need to cut services like CHART. The TUI are the only party who can call on the commission to help,
- College offered to return the payments and then go to the commission - skipping the negotiation stage. TUI refuse.

So right now we have the situation where both parties are refusing to come to an agreement, leaving our results hidden from us. At the meeting yesterday, it was agreed that the SU would call on both sides to resolve the matter before our results are originally due (Feb. 2nd) or else they will go public on the matter (such as local and national press, protests and the like). This statement (3 pages) was drawn up last night and submitted to both the TUI and College management. It is not available in the public and only in the SU office.

Sully

Mod Note:
I am fully aware people are angry, but can we please just post civilised responses to this thread and drop inappropriate comments?

Thanks.

Topic Cleaned

AdMMM

haha, that was a transcript from Bill Hicks, the legendary comedian...