Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

CheesedOff

Clano wrote: »

It was on at 5 as far as i know im sure tis over now and the lads, sully etc will be on this soon

Cheers for that!

therokerroar

Strike off apparently!

So people complain, say they want to take action, and then when the chance arises go and bottle it.

Full of ****.

CheesedOff

therokerroar wrote: »

Strike off apparently!

So people complain, say they want to take action, and then when the chance arises go and bottle it.

Full of ****.

Ok, so there's no strike, what was the outcome of this meeting then? Surely something is going ahead?

alan89

therokerroar wrote: »

Strike off apparently!

So people complain, say they want to take action, and then when the chance arises go and bottle it.

Full of ****.

Sure wants new?

What was said in the meeting? When are we going to get the results?

2Bv¬2B

There was some great input from the students, Sully raised some great points however I felt this "media blitz" will not be as effective as we would like it to be.

Some people were shot down and was a little unfortunate to see, considering SU emphasized so much that it is "our voice" and it was "crucial" that we attended.

I won't post what one member of the SU committee said during the meeting regarding the lecturers but I think what they said was completely immature of them.

I hope some good comes of this media blitz on Wednesday.

CheesedOff

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

I hope some good comes of this media blitz on Wednesday.

Whats that all about then?

alan89

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

I won't post what one member of the SU committee said during the meeting regarding the lecturers but I think what they said was completely immature of them.

Please could you explain what happened here? Cause in the end of the day these are the people who are representing us!

2Bv¬2B

CheesedOff wrote: »

Whats that all about then?

I will expect a full finer detailed account of what happened earlier from Sully in due course, however the people who attended voted in favour of a Media Blitz, attracting all sorts of media i.e. Television, Radio Newspapers etc, I didn't stay until the very end unfortunatley but unless things have changed since I left I believe this is the "Plan of action"

alan89 wrote:

Please could you explain what happened here? Cause in the end of the day these are the people who are representing us!

I don't feel comfortable positing that here as there is evidently lectures looking at this thread. Those who were there know what that person said. It may have been in the heat of the moment but still immature none the less.

aassdd

Thats fu**ed up.. why is there no strike? Every class rep ive spoken too wanted one, instructed by their class to do so...

SU are full of it altogether, anybody here how the 2 officials at least were off in the states paid for all inclusive by the director of WIT in order to "look at a building for him"
This was only recently as well....

Absolute Bo*ox, if he can pay to send the union off to the states he can give the lecturers what they are owed...

No wondering the SU are up the directors hole, afraid yas will lose your "extra benefits" like these novelty trips to america..

Im a 4th yr student and really did not need this cr*p.

SU yas are useless, wudnt of expected any better from a pack of retarded pri**s anyway,

what is the story with a media bliss?? What are people doing in order to get the media to the college like? Theyre not gonna stand outside all day if nothing going on?

CheesedOff

aassdd wrote: »

Thats fu**ed up.. why is there no strike? Every class rep ive spoken too wanted one, instructed by their class to do so...

SU are full of it altogether, anybody here how the 2 officials at least were off in the states paid for all inclusive by the director of WIT in order to "look at a building for him"
This was only recently as well....

Absolute Bo*ox, if he can pay to send the union off to the states he can give the lecturers what they are owed...

No wondering the SU are up the directors hole, afraid yas will lose your "extra benefits" like these novelty trips to america..

Im a 4th yr student and really did not need this cr*p.

SU yas are useless, wudnt of expected any better from a pack of retarded pri**s anyway,

what is the story with a media bliss?? What are people doing in order to get the media to the college like? Theyre not gonna stand outside all day if nothing going on?

Look whatever goes on behind closed doors is for another day, if what you're saying is true, it has put the student union president in a comprising position regarding taking a stand against the sugar daddy that is the WIT director. I hope it won't prevent us from getting what is fair for fear of rocking the boat. That's all I'll say on that matter.

With regard to there being no strike, that's no big deal, because I would bet that recent graduates and final year students are the only ones to get worked up about this and a lot of them are on placement right now so they wouldn't be able to attend so it could end up being a poor turn out with no effect.

A media blitz is a great idea once it goes nationally and not only are our voices out there but our faces too.

So can we hear how they propose we will do this media blitz then?

Sully

2brnot2b wrote: »

Many thanks for enlightening me on the employee profile of AOL, but my point is if employers ask for results, they ask for the most recent result available to you, and with the exception of first years, all other students would have these. And if you really wanted to cover your backs with prospective employers, you could always make them aware of the industrial action that is preventing you from having your results from the Christmas '09 exam sitting.

You may have a point for some companies but I am aware of some looking for a transcript of previous year results also. Regardless, they would know we sat exams in Christmas and if the results were withheld - they could easily move onto someone who has the results. I understand the college will send an official letter confirming their is a dispute to each student, so this can be used when results are requested. It may ease the situation, but only slightly.

That was a national strike, against the government, not WIT management. When I said 'until now' I was referring to this being the first time we have taken a stance against our own management.

Fair point - though I am sure there probably has been disputes, they just never escalated as far as this one. Would you not agree, or has the TUI and WIT management had a brilliant relationship with never any issues?

Well I am saying otherwise now. Yes they offered us a deal - 50% of previous rates. Well, the term 'offered' is a bit of a misnomer - management were asked to negotiate the rate and perhaps settle on a figure around 65-75% of the rate, in accordance with the Dept. of Education circular on pro-rata exam payments. They said no - 50% or nothing. Now, 'here's our offer, take it or leave it' might constitute negotiation in your, and evidentally the college's, opinion, but for most people it doesn't.

Just so I am clear: Are you saying that the college deal was NOT offering FULL 100% payment for Summer, Autumn and Christmas with a view to going into the LRC to finalise the issue? That deal was never proposed to your union?

You are correct in what you say, the TUI is the one to request LRC intervention, but I thought according to the College's own press release they had actually referred the issue to the LRC? Another of the college's 'regrettable' bits of misinformation that keeps leaking out.

Your correct. They have asked the LRC, who have extended an invite to the TUI to go into talks with them on the issue. Its understood, though not confirmed, the TUI will reject this invite as it goes against the Grievance Procedure.

Yes we are not happy that the Grievnce Procedure is not being adhered to, but if your boss changed your terms of employment with no consultation and retrospectively, then refused to negotiate with you and paid no attention to nationlly agreed IR procedures, what would you do?

I see no issue with letting a third party arbitrator or the LRC to decide, and would take the full payment for the last few exams session going into this.

Yes the college are claiming they can't afford to pay the current rate. Mind you this is the same college that claimed that it was €5m in deficit at the beginning of last year, when in truth the figure was closer to €200,000. Given some of the expense items that have come to light in recent months, this deficit should not have existed at all. In addition, the college has reduced its staff payroll by 3% in accordance with national guidelines, and will reduce it by a further 3% this year. So I very much doubt they cannot afford to pay for what is a core service. Much more likely they simply don't want to pay.

My understanding is that the expense scandal was in a separate budget to the wage budget. As in, a number of budgets were set aside like one for Wages, Non-Wages and Building (Capital Fund IIRC?). So, the 100% wage came out of the "Wages" budget while the expenses came from "Non-Wages" which would cover student services also. With the "Wages" budget no longer able to handle the payment due to the government cut backs, the only option is to take it from the "Non-Wages" fund which the college are refusing to do. Misinformed?

It's funny how when management issues something factually incorrect it is considered merely 'regretful'. Not damaging, libellous or purposefully misleading?!

No, you have an excellent point and I fully support the TUI anger directed at the statement. It was very much misleading and damaging towards the TUI.

I would seriously question the sources of your information. The first any lecturers (including TUI members) heard about it was in a meeting in October, and even then we weren't told our payments were being cut, just that they were being delayed. Indeed, we were told by the union, when some lecturers queried why they hadn't been paid as normal in August, not to worry, it was probably just a delay in processing the claim forms. Hardly the reaction of people in the know. I know you probably won't believe me, but given the amount of factually incorrect material emanating from management, don't you think that this could be another piece?

From what was said again tonight at the WITSU meeting - this issue of notification is being debated. So, I guess neither of us can comment fairly since both sides are disputing this and its not really for us to decide who is incorrect.

There are two sides in this dispute, and I can assure you that it is not the lecturers who do 'not give two hoots' about students. Far from it. We are the ones that work with students on a daily basis and see what work they put in, and how much college means to them. We are the ones that will have to deal with students' anger face-to-face over this. We aren't the ones sitting in our ivory towers, making and breaking rules when we want. Did it ever occur to you that it is the management that may be utilising students as pawns? They know that most lecturers hate to disrupt students' learning or cause them stress, and are banking on this fact to get their own way over this, and many other issues.

But... you guys all voted in favour for industrial action and your the ones withholding the results from us. Yes, the college could end the dispute with ease but it risks far more for students. Yes, the TUI could end the dispute with ease but they want their money/standards to remain intact. Which do you think students care about?

With regard to the €25 per script - the current rate is €8.57.

Thanks, I got this clarified tonight. I believe your "new rate" would be around the €4 mark, correct?

I guess the next question we could ask the TUI and college:- Should lecturers be paid, what would be considered a bonus or perk in some eyes, for the correction of exam scripts or is it not part of the job description (which I have heard from lecturers in the past - "Sorry, its not in my job description to help outside of class" etc).

aassdd

It proves though that SU are doing what they can to please management which is not fair on lecturers and definitely the students..

We were informed of the american trip when it became apparent that the results will be delayed.. this very reputable senior lecture tried to make contact with SU only to be told of the trip..

I just think that the whole union is an absolute shambles,
They should never have been given a second year and only were due to lack of interest from any other parties,

Nobody i have ever talked to had a good word to say about any of them as individuals or as a group...

Also im not trying to be stupid but is there any chance you can explain what the media bliss is? Basically try and arrange every paper etc to the college on that day?

Sure what if they dont agree or something?

Clano

aassdd wrote: »

Thats fu**ed up.. why is there no strike? Every class rep ive spoken too wanted one, instructed by their class to do so...

What was a strike ever going to achieve???? we'll just miss more class, again we lose out, lecturers dont give a toss if were not there it just means more time to sit on the arses, what good is that??
media blitz was always going to be the outcome

KeelanM90

aassdd wrote: »

Thats fu**ed up.. why is there no strike? Every class rep ive spoken too wanted one, instructed by their class to do so...

SU are full of it altogether, anybody here how the 2 officials at least were off in the states paid for all inclusive by the director of WIT in order to "look at a building for him"
This was only recently as well....

Absolute Bo*ox, if he can pay to send the union off to the states he can give the lecturers what they are owed...

No wondering the SU are up the directors hole, afraid yas will lose your "extra benefits" like these novelty trips to america..

Firstly, it was pointed out during the meeting that the majority of the students would do the very same as in the public sector strikes (Heading up to newry) and go to the pub!

Secondly, in the meeting the two officers explained what exactly was happening while they were away, this had been planned for over a year and in no way did they benefit from it other than to assist the student body!

aassdd wrote: »

SU yas are useless, wudnt of expected any better from a pack of retarded pri**s anyway,

This is a typical post from someone willing to do nothing but sit back and do nothing but complain!

aassdd

I agree that a strike probably would of been a waste of time but something has to be done in an effective manner,

And no im not just sitting back and complaining,

I just think its bol*x the situation were in and it just adds to the frustration knowing that the SU are tip-toeing behind management afraid of upsetting them..

Everybody knows that - weve had 2 lecturers telling us that theyre not what they used to be..

A union should be militant for its members not bitching around afraid to complete your job descriptions..

Your really telling me that not in one way did them 2 officers benefit from flying over there? Lies - Stop trying to fool yourselves,

The truth will eventually come out about the unions and it feels an embarrassment to be part of it

ec18

maybe we should sub contract the tui :cool:

aassdd

ec18 wrote: »

maybe we should sub contract the tui :cool:

As much as im against what the TUI are doing, they wud do a better job than SU - At least they're not afraid to represent their members and do what has to be done

CheesedOff

Seriously we don't have time for wise cracks and bitching, lets start planning, can someone from the SU post something here or on the facebook site and let us know how we can help. Some of us are not in college, I'm finished and my girlfriends on placement so neither of us have contact with class reps but feel very strongly about making a move on this.

Time to get a plan of action. I'm sure the TUI have a lovely big statement for the media already prepared. Is there some way we can make a fuss so that it gets airplay or are students supposed to jam the lines of joe duffy, matt cooper, gerry ryan etc on Wednesday? Are the RTE studios still in City Square? Should we go on the hunt for someone to put us on 'six one'

Who has connections to the Times, Independant etc? Are the SU writing a statement to be printed in papers on Wednesday?

Can someone let us know whats going on and what they think is the best plan of action??

Cheers!!!

Murse89

Well if this isn't resolved I'll have to complete my Nursing training in UCC,which after the shambles that has been my almost 2years here in WIT it won't be a sad goodbye!As I've been on placement and will be for a few more weeks most of us are out of the loop.We've heard rumors about no Summer exams being written if that's the case we may as well stop attending college (when we as nurses are due to return to classes) as without out results we can't go onto 3rd year!It's ridiculous!

KeelanM90

aassdd wrote: »

I agree that a strike probably would of been a waste of time but something has to be done in an effective manner,

I can assure you if all the planned events go ahead with THE FULL STUDENT BODY'S SUPPORT this will be the most effective way of getting what we really want from this!

This isn't simply going and calling the media, it will be publicity stunts to name and shame the TUI and WIT and hopefully with this we'll see results!

aassdd wrote: »

Your really telling me that not in one way did them 2 officers benefit from flying over there? Lies - Stop trying to fool yourselves,

The truth will eventually come out about the unions and it feels an embarrassment to be part of it

I've always found anyone with anything to do with the student union very honest and transparent! This was done to see could the union be improved on. . . and from what I heard tonight the two officers did everything humanly possible to make an already very active union stronger

aassdd

OK well hopefully they can prove me wrong and make this work then...

Any ideas or any way we can all help shud be put up from now on..

CheesedOff

KeelanM90 wrote: »

I



This isn't simply going and calling the media, it will be publicity stunts to name and shame the TUI and WIT and hopefully with this we'll see results!

Excellent! Any ideas on what kind of stunts we can pull? And I agree, the whole student body needs to get involved.

Sully

therokerroar wrote: »

Strike off apparently!

So people complain, say they want to take action, and then when the chance arises go and bottle it.

Full of ****.

CheesedOff wrote: »

Ok, so there's no strike, what was the outcome of this meeting then? Surely something is going ahead?

alan89 wrote: »

Sure wants new?

What was said in the meeting? When are we going to get the results?

aassdd wrote: »

Thats fu**ed up.. why is there no strike? Every class rep ive spoken too wanted one, instructed by their class to do so...

SU are full of it altogether, anybody here how the 2 officials at least were off in the states paid for all inclusive by the director of WIT in order to "look at a building for him"
This was only recently as well....

Absolute Bo*ox, if he can pay to send the union off to the states he can give the lecturers what they are owed...

No wondering the SU are up the directors hole, afraid yas will lose your "extra benefits" like these novelty trips to america..

Im a 4th yr student and really did not need this cr*p.

SU yas are useless, wudnt of expected any better from a pack of retarded pri**s anyway,

what is the story with a media bliss?? What are people doing in order to get the media to the college like? Theyre not gonna stand outside all day if nothing going on?

The meeting was over 2 hours long. It started with an update on the situation, then they took questions & answers, before moving onto giving options. At this stage they were outlined and then the floor discussed in very good detail the pros and cons of each option. A few other options were added for discussion. Once wrapped up - a vote was taken by the class reps and those in the meeting. The vote was for a pretty tough stance and approach to the issue - make as much noise as possible, different daily campaigns such as a on-campus very noisy and visual protest up-to and including picketing the entrances to the college. All this with media involvement and various press releases issued and media coverage (which begun last week with the Campus Times article and YFG press statement).

Your Class Reps voted for this unanimously. There was extra seats brought into accommodate the very large turnout in the Auditorium. All these people voted for the above option and did not want the route of another "Do nothing" approach or "Go on a strike". It was agreed by pretty much all that a strike carries far to much risk - with students heading on a big piss-up effectively. Just like the public sector strikes when a load of them fecked off up North for shopping and damaged their campaign. It was far to risky.

aassdd wrote: »

It proves though that SU are doing what they can to please management which is not fair on lecturers and definitely the students..

Hardly. It was class rep council who 1) Made the points, 2) Discussed the points in detail (pros and cons), and 3) Voted unanimously in favour of a hard enough line approach. This action is hardly going to please the TUI/Management - doing nothing or keeping it internal would have been the soft approach.

We were informed of the american trip when it became apparent that the results will be delayed.. this very reputable senior lecture tried to make contact with SU only to be told of the trip..

The President and Education Officer of WITSU were away on a visit to another University in Boston (Suffix University I think, one which WIT has had a longstanding relationship over 10 years with), at the request of the college President, to see how their University was being run and the different student services on offer. The idea being, to see how its done and how it could be implemented over here rather then spending large sums of money on a report covering all the options and implementation that would be much cheaper this way. WITSU are to make a report on this, and present it to the college and academic council with a number of suggestions which can be brought into use in WIT. This is aimed to be done in the next few weeks. The report must be made available for students also.

This has been known for a number of months and the visit was supposed to be sometime ago but fell through due to complications with one of those travelling. A decision was made well before this issue to go last week. To cancel would have cost a considerable amount of money as transport and accommodation had been paid for, along with meetings arrangement with the University officials. The union worked over the internet and the phone (I can confirm this, having spoken several times to them during their period away) on this issue and once arriving back in Ireland in the early hours of Friday morning, went straight back from Dublin to the office in WIT and worked over night and have been doing so continuously ever since.

Anyway, we have gone off the point a bit here. I do not believe that the planned visit to Boston is subject to the discussion at hand so I would suggest we leave it out of here and continue with the main topic at hand.

I just think that the whole union is an absolute shambles,
They should never have been given a second year and only were due to lack of interest from any other parties,

I think they are doing fantastic work and their response to this has been excellent. Not everybody will like it, but the votes being taken where by Class Reps you guys elected to vote at these meetings and represent you. Not by the sabbatical officers.

Nobody i have ever talked to had a good word to say about any of them as individuals or as a group...

Filling out an auditorium and getting a round of applause from effectively everyone after certain speeches and comments from the crowd about their work effort - I think that rubbishes the above point.

Also im not trying to be stupid but is there any chance you can explain what the media bliss is? Basically try and arrange every paper etc to the college on that day?

Sure what if they dont agree or something?

Effectively, yes. Get every form of media out and to report on it all. Thats what a media blitz is.

The press are not supposed to "take sides" and are to report news to people, even if they disagree with any of the parties involved.

Sully

CheesedOff wrote: »

Seriously we don't have time for wise cracks and bitching, lets start planning, can someone from the SU post something here or on the facebook site and let us know how we can help. Some of us are not in college, I'm finished and my girlfriends on placement so neither of us have contact with class reps but feel very strongly about making a move on this.

Time to get a plan of action. I'm sure the TUI have a lovely big statement for the media already prepared. Is there some way we can make a fuss so that it gets airplay or are students supposed to jam the lines of joe duffy, matt cooper, gerry ryan etc on Wednesday? Are the RTE studios still in City Square? Should we go on the hunt for someone to put us on 'six one'

Who has connections to the Times, Independant etc? Are the SU writing a statement to be printed in papers on Wednesday?

Can someone let us know whats going on and what they think is the best plan of action??

Cheers!!!

For the moment, this is the best I can offer in terms of what happened:-
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64268084&postcount=176

It went in the order of;
1) Give an update on how it all stands,
2) Open to the floor for Q&A,
3) Present options based on the call for Feedback last week,
4) Discuss the above options by opening the floor,
5) Take feedback, discuss pros and cons and get new options,
6) Finalise and take a vote on what action to take
-- Voted for rolling campaign starting Wednesday (the media blitz starts tmrow as the campaign will take a little longer to organise) which will be a protest for an hour or two in the college grounds. It will be visual with posters, signs, etc etc. Perfect for grabbing attention.
7) Any other business - mainly about the Campus Times being removed from the WITSU office by order of Registrar over the covering of the dispute. The issue is being investigated as there was no permission given by WITSU President for them to be withdrawn.

Want to offer your support? Call into the WITSU office and give your details.

KeelanM90

CheesedOff wrote: »

Excellent! Any ideas on what kind of stunts we can pull? And I agree, the whole student body needs to get involved.

Not going to take credit for any of these as all were mentioned at the meeting;) I'll try keep it in an escalating level just to show the intention of if no outcome was achieved from each!
Firstly came getting the media involved and it was made aware to everyone present that the media are constantly ringing the SU president but nothing could be said until the council meeting had taken place.This included photo ops and just general media stunts!
Next was the obvious calls for protest protests around campus such as going into the tourism building and ripping the roof off with noise as it was put!
Another was to go and block off the car park at 5 o clock in the evening by creating a picket at each gate and hold it until about 8 o clock every evening causing obvious disturbance to both WIT management and TUI members!
Then the meeting went on to more advanced methods such as sit ins etc. but as was said in the meeting anyone involved would really have to be prepared to basically stick to the sit-in for up to a month!

aassdd

No probs - Thanx for clearing all that up..

Sully

Also, the WITSU home page and Facebook page will be updated tonight with pretty much what I said.

west101

KeelanM90 wrote: »

Then the meeting went on to more advanced methods such as sit ins etc. but as was said in the meeting anyone involved would really have to be prepared to basically stick to the sit-in for up to a month!

I Think this would be an effective method with something along the lines of the waterford crystal visitor centre protest some time ago with protestors taking shifts.

CheesedOff

KeelanM90 wrote: »

Not going to take credit for any of these as all were mentioned at the meeting;) I'll try keep it in an escalating level just to show the intention of if no outcome was achieved from each!
Firstly came getting the media involved and it was made aware to everyone present that the media are constantly ringing the SU president but nothing could be said until the council meeting had taken place.This included photo ops and just general media stunts!
Next was the obvious calls for protest protests around campus such as going into the tourism building and ripping the roof off with noise as it was put!
Another was to go and block off the car park at 5 o clock in the evening by creating a picket at each gate and hold it until about 8 o clock every evening causing obvious disturbance to both WIT management and TUI members!
Then the meeting went on to more advanced methods such as sit ins etc. but as was said in the meeting anyone involved would really have to be prepared to basically stick to the sit-in for up to a month!

It is brilliant that the media are already interested, I really hope it gets the attention it deserves. Its really really shocking what is going on here and so hard to comprehend. I can't believe that it has even got this far. I mean they've corrected the exams already, its so spiteful and utter ignorance to say the least.
ANYWAY! I think blocking off all exits from the car park is a fantastic idea, I will definitely be out to join in for that (is that beginning tomorrow or wed evening?)

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Have we any way of reaching those final year students on placement? So that they can take part. Can a message go up on the facebook site if the picket is going ahead at the carpark exits?

Judging by tonights meeting, do you think this is likely to be dragged out over a long period? There is so much at stake for final year students if this happens.

CheesedOff

Sully wrote: »

Also, the WITSU home page and Facebook page will be updated tonight with pretty much what I said.

That's if you can get access to the WITSU page, it has been down for the last couple of hours. Hope that is not a ploy to stop the student body having their voice heard. That would be the final straw!