Evidence of the Afterlife Suppressed?

Ken_Is_Here

Flamed Diving wrote: »

But what if your brain and the chemical release made you think that God made your brain and the chemical release is also by design to release the soul perhaps?

Then its a very naughty chemical release.

sbsquarepants

Firstly let me lay out my stall, i'm an aetheist with absolutely no time for religion of any hue.
Do i believe in an after life? No
Do i belive in a supreme being? No
Do i believe in angels? No
Have i seen an angel? Yes

Now for the important bit, how. The answer is quite simple - drugs
If anybody wants a spirtual experience, i've one word for them - HALLUCINOGENS.
It is a known fact that as the body nears death, it is flooded by DMT. This is a powerfull hallucinogen and as such, quite unsurprisingly, causes very realistic hallucinations. There are literally dozens of chemicals that have the characteristics to do this such as lsd, mushrooms, ketamine, salvia, datura, dxm, and those are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head. Nutmeg can do it for god sake!!!
I have seen spirits, i've seen inanimate objects move and breath, i've conversed with several strange beings, i've even in one particularly wacky quarter hour period, lived an entire life as something else. These all seemed perfectly real to me at the time, hyper real in some cases, but in reality they were no more than chemical tricks i'd played on myself. The feeling after these trips that you've stumbled onto some great cosmic truth can be quite overwhelming, but nice as that would be, it simply isn't true. Unfortunately perhaps. OBE's and near death experiences are no more "real" than an acid trip.

Torakx

Thats pretty much my thoughts so far on obe/astral travel etc.
Ive learned the pineal gland does indeed contain DMT which is released in times of high stress like near death experience or forced through extreme meditation/hallucinagens.
Until i experience a few obe's and am able to test the reality of the astrlworld its going to be mostly fiction for me.
There is a small possibility their is an earth consciousness of some kind.Maybe a field or aura or something thatcan be seen or interacted with when the chemical dmt starts to doits job.
Does anyone have any info on the pineal gland and dmt?
Ive searched for documentaries but have found only one or two on the subject with google video.

Ps there are rumours going around that alot of people have been seeign the same "tree spirits" on DMT but i think this is just pre trip rumours affecting peoples subconscious ideas of the "astral world and its spirits"

digme

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Firstly let me lay out my stall, i'm an aetheist with absolutely no time for religion of any hue.
Do i believe in an after life? No
Do i belive in a supreme being? No
Do i believe in angels? No
Have i seen an angel? Yes

Now for the important bit, how. The answer is quite simple - drugs
If anybody wants a spirtual experience, i've one word for them - HALLUCINOGENS.
It is a known fact that as the body nears death, it is flooded by DMT. This is a powerfull hallucinogen and as such, quite unsurprisingly, causes very realistic hallucinations. There are literally dozens of chemicals that have the characteristics to do this such as lsd, mushrooms, ketamine, salvia, datura, dxm, and those are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head. Nutmeg can do it for god sake!!!
I have seen spirits, i've seen inanimate objects move and breath, i've conversed with several strange beings, i've even in one particularly wacky quarter hour period, lived an entire life as something else. These all seemed perfectly real to me at the time, hyper real in some cases, but in reality they were no more than chemical tricks i'd played on myself. The feeling after these trips that you've stumbled onto some great cosmic truth can be quite overwhelming, but nice as that would be, it simply isn't true. Unfortunately perhaps. OBE's and near death experiences are no more "real" than an acid trip.

How many of your senses are effected by dmt?

Killer Pigeon

Ken_Is_Here wrote: »

But what if God made your brain and the chemical release is also by design to release the soul perhaps?

Look, I think this whole thing about God has been blow out of proportion for thousands of years. This thing called 'God' or as I like to put it, the 'Primum Movens', may well, according to the logical bounds of the human mind, have existed or does still exist. This is a philosophical argument. I don't believe giving the sheer vastness of the universe, that this 'Primum Movens' would bother to have any input in the affairs of humanity. Besides, the basic building blocks of life have been shown to have developed naturally from inorganic materials in the lab (see Miller-Urey Experiment). Also, probabilistically, there might well be life (intelligent or unintelligent) in some other region of the universe.

sbsquarepants

digme wrote: »

How many of your senses are effected by dmt?

DMT? I'm not 100% sure as i've never tried it personally, but with the others all senses are effected, also things like perception of time and general understanding of how the world works, absolutely absurd concepts can seem like total eureeka moments! I would imagine that the same is true for DMT.

digme

sbsquarepants wrote: »

DMT? I'm not 100% sure as i've never tried it personally, but with the others all senses are effected, also things like perception of time and general understanding of how the world works, absolutely absurd concepts can seem like total eureeka moments! I would imagine that the same is true for DMT.

This leads me to ask you, why is that no different than what your experiencing now, in the sense of your perception of your reality.You have 5 senses exactly the same thing is going on inside a mass of meat with wires attached floating in a pool of liquid,which interprets your reality from those exact same 5 senses.

sbsquarepants

I'm inclined to agree with you up to a point. We percieve reality because of the senses we have evolved. If for example we could see in infra red, or hear ultrasound, then "reality" would be very a different place. But the fact that someone experiences a what is basically a drug fuelled hallucination, can not be taken as evidence of anything, it is concievably possible they somehow became able to sense something tangible that is normally out of our range of perception. Possible perhaps, but i think a far more likely answer is that they were just tripping!
I've done it many times, i know just how "real" it can seem.

IrelandSpirit

sbsquarepants wrote: »

DMT? I'm not 100% sure as i've never tried it personally, but with the others all senses are effected, also things like perception of time and general understanding of how the world works, absolutely absurd concepts can seem like total eureeka moments! I would imagine that the same is true for DMT.

I think you kinda nail there for me with your previous post, but just wanted to say that you have tried DMT, we've all been on a DMT trip all our lives. It's flooding around our brains, released naturally by the pineal gland.

IrelandSpirit

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with you up to a point. We percieve reality because of the senses we have evolved. If for example we could see in infra red, or hear ultrasound, then "reality" would be very a different place. But the fact that someone experiences a what is basically a drug fuelled hallucination, can not be taken as evidence of anything, it is concievably possible they somehow became able to sense something tangible that is normally out of our range of perception. Possible perhaps, but i think a far more likely answer is that they were just tripping!
I've done it many times, i know just how "real" it can seem.

Well this is it, we've DMT produced/released naturally in the body and it might well be that we're in a huge, hyper-real drug-fuelled hallucination at this moment.

I mean, it's a kinda trippy thought in itself ... to think the the human body produces what we term a hallucinogenic drug, what the hell for? It's been a while since I've checked up on this but if i remember rightly we'd die without DMT ... I think ? Not sure about that last bit, but it's true that we're on 'time release' hit of DMT all our lives, and when our physical body dies the pineal gland releases its entire 'stash' into our brains. Hehehehe ...


(BTW, sorry to answer your posts in reverse.)

Torakx

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Well this is it, we've DMT produced/released naturally in the body and it might well be that we're in a huge, hyper-real drug-fuelled hallucination at this moment.

I mean, it's a kinda trippy thought in itself ... to think the the human body produces what we term a hallucinogenic drug, what the hell for? It's been a while since I've checked up on this but if i remember rightly we'd die without DMT ... I think ? Not sure about that last bit, but it's true that we're on 'time release' hit of DMT all our lives, and when our physical body dies the pineal gland releases its entire 'stash' into our brains. Hehehehe ...


(BTW, sorry to answer your posts in reverse.)

Afaik DMT is used by the brain to make us dream or wake( depending hwo you view reality lol).My guess is to sort and organise the ole harddrive up there and get it ready to percieve the next day.
But i guess if aliens or god wanted us to contact them biologically then that would be the way also maybe

IrelandSpirit

digme wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=49AEEB463EF2A566

Here's a fantastic chat on coast to coast am which was just posted on this guys youtube channel.It's really interesting and might be a good addition to this thread.

Thanks. Listened to that last night, it was very interesting. I personally agree with a lot of what he was saying, particularly with the idea that the Judeo-Christian religions are the biggest stumbling blocks in the US, to get evidence of the Afterlife into the mainstream .... true here too in Ireland, i think.

sbsquarepants

I wonder is that why some dreams are more realistic than others, a peak in DMT for some reason?
I don't think it's all that strange that our bodies produce a natural hallucinogen really, they occur right throughout nature, in all manner of plants, fungi and animals.
I think it's a kind of human weakness to assume there must be a reason or a guiding force for everything. Some things just are the way they are. Nature and by extension life itself is more of a facilitator than a designer, in my opinion of course!
People say the chances of all this happening by chance are so remote there has to be a designer, but i think not. I had a maths teacher who explained unlikely probabilities to us like this - Shuffle a deck of cards and then deal them out, record the sequence of cards. You can now spend the rest of your life doing this and odds are, you will never get that sequence again, because the odds of that particular sequence are so remote. But yet you still got it on your very first attempt!
The odds of us being here are remote, but take a look around, the universe is a big place and has had a lot of time to get this sequence of cards entirely by chance

IrelandSpirit

Torakx wrote: »

Afaik DMT is used by the brain to make us dream or wake( depending hwo you view reality lol).My guess is to sort and organise the ole harddrive up there and get it ready to percieve the next day.
But i guess if aliens or god wanted us to contact them biologically then that would be the way also maybe

hehe, 'depending which way we view reality', like that. Makes me think like from listening to afterlife speakers and they way they never refer to themselves as 'dead' that in some way they might see our world here as an 'afterlife' ... if that makes any sense at all! lol.

IrelandSpirit

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I wonder is that why some dreams are more realistic than others, a peak in DMT for some reason?
I don't think it's all that strange that our bodies produce a natural hallucinogen really, they occur right throughout nature, in all manner of plants, fungi and animals.
I think it's a kind of human weakness to assume there must be a reason or a guiding force for everything. Some things just are the way they are. Nature and by extension life itself is more of a facilitator than a designer, in my opinion of course!
People say the chances of all this happening by chance are so remote there has to be a designer, but i think not. I had a maths teacher who explained unlikely probabilities to us like this - Shuffle a deck of cards and then deal them out, record the sequence of cards. You can now spend the rest of your life doing this and odds are, you will never get that sequence again, because the odds of that particular sequence are so remote. But yet you still got it on your very first attempt!
The odds of us being here are remote, but take a look around, the universe is a big place and has had a lot of time to get this sequence of cards entirely by chance

Yep, gotcha. I sometimes think God is Chance ... have you read the Dice Man? Highly recommend it.

Though yes, whether or not DMT exists by chance, it exists regardless and appears to be related/responsible for OBEs and NDE, and there are many well-established traditions all through human history which attribute 'entlightenment' to the production of DMT, or the opening of the inner eye. Seems like it's there as a tool to be used and explored, at the very least ... christ, feel like running out to the headshop right now and getting some!

Killer Pigeon

Scientist have artificially created life!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form

Torakx

Hail a new era of genetic patenting? Or is that already around?

Lab_Mouse

Torakx wrote: »

Or is that already around?

For years!!get with it..if lizards can do it so can we:D

saintsaint

digme wrote: »

Was going back over this thread and found this tonight while searching bits and pieces google.


It's pretty extensive and very well laid out.

http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/summary_of_evidence

looked in to the sith you talked about ,, nothing in it ? just words an more words , when it comes to proof of sprit world one needs to walk in to a property that has dead soul in it ,, because ,,,, words words words /? just wont do it .. problem is no one can tel any one were this place is .. be cause it dose not excist .. so were stuk with words words ..

digme

saintsaint wrote: »

looked in to the sith you talked about ,, nothing in it ? just words an more words , when it comes to proof of sprit world one needs to walk in to a property that has dead soul in it ,, because ,,,, words words words /? just wont do it .. problem is no one can tel any one were this place is .. be cause it dose not excist .. so were stuk with words words ..

I've moved on from that site to quantum mechanics,your correct about the words, too many opinions, not enough evidence.

sbsquarepants

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Yep, gotcha. I sometimes think God is Chance ... have you read the Dice Man? Highly recommend it.

Though yes, whether or not DMT exists by chance, it exists regardless and appears to be related/responsible for OBEs and NDE, and there are many well-established traditions all through human history which attribute 'entlightenment' to the production of DMT, or the opening of the inner eye. Seems like it's there as a tool to be used and explored, at the very least ... christ, feel like running out to the headshop right now and getting some!

Haven't read the book, but i'll check it out.
This is kind of an important point, for hundreds if not thousands of years various holy men etc, meditated and whatnot to "open the inner eye" and so on. Now with advances in human knowledge it's achievable for everybody by just popping a pill, so to speak.
Everything becomes explainable as sufficient time passes and knowledge grows, we have even recently reached the infancy stage of purely synthethic life forms. Just because we don't understand things doesn't make them mystical or divine, we just lack the understanding FOR THE TIME BEING!
Scientists are by definition inquisitive, if there was evidence there it would have been found AND SHARED. Science is not a religion, any ambitious scientist would like nothing better than to turn an accepted belief on it's head with startling new evidence, they almost certainly wouldn't hush it up!
This conspiracy makes no sense!

IrelandSpirit

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Haven't read the book, but i'll check it out.
This is kind of an important point, for hundreds if not thousands of years various holy men etc, meditated and whatnot to "open the inner eye" and so on. Now with advances in human knowledge it's achievable for everybody by just popping a pill, so to speak.
Everything becomes explainable as sufficient time passes and knowledge grows, we have even recently reached the infancy stage of purely synthethic life forms. Just because we don't understand things doesn't make them mystical or divine, we just lack the understanding FOR THE TIME BEING!
Scientists are by definition inquisitive, if there was evidence there it would have been found AND SHARED. Science is not a religion, any ambitious scientist would like nothing better than to turn an accepted belief on it's head with startling new evidence, they almost certainly wouldn't hush it up!
This conspiracy makes no sense!

Well, if you don't get why there could be a conspiracy to suppress evidence of the afterlife, perhaps read back on this thread, and think on it a bit - the scientific community does not necessarily share its discoveries as readily as we'd like to believe.

I've been reading up on the pineal gland again recently, what Rene Descartes, called 'The Seat of The Soul' ...

But anyway, I agree it is too easy to just fob things off we don't understand in the 'materialistic' sense as 'mystical' and 'divine', and truth is, the study of conciousness is a science which has been developed over thousand of years in countless traditions across the world. Our western sciences included, going back to its inception.

caseyann

Far from a church goer or prayer or anything to do with religion am i.

I believe whole heartedly in after life.


All the stories from people i have heard over life and things that have happened in life to me and very recent.

Seeing isn't believing,believing is seeing and feeling.


What will you believe in when your family member has passed away?

saintsaint

hi great words . my man // you realy got a handle on things ? all that bla bla

caseyann

saintsaint wrote: »

hi great words . my man // you realy got a handle on things ? all that bla bla

Have you got a little problem?
Called trolling?:mad:

saintsaint

dont pretend you have any form of in sight , iv beed working in this field years .. you will have your fair shair of pain in life ,, chep words or no chep words

caseyann

saintsaint wrote: »

dont pretend you have any form of in sight , iv beed working in this field years .. you will have your fair shair of pain in life ,, chep words or no chep words

Going to try undermine and insult the loss of my family member and what i felt only few weeks ago just because you dont want to believe are you??

Work in what field exactly trolling sites and pissing on peoples beliefs because they dont factor into yours?:mad:

saintsaint

a person cant give what that person has not got , yes im talking about understanding ,,, you mess with words plaing games calling people mad /? you a what you think clean out your mind ,, an as for your silly fasess :eek::rolleyes:;):cool: hears a few

saintsaint

grow up ..

BeatNikDub

Seriously, please use spellcheck saintsaint, your posts are very hard to read.