Evidence of the Afterlife Suppressed?

RoboClam

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

The website I chose for the OP centres around the medium Leslie Flint, who was challenged by the scientific community to conduct his seances under the strictest laboratory conditions, and passed. He was not a fraud, in other words.

Thanks for your response. While I may not actually agree with the content, I still think it's a pretty well written post which brings your arguments together well.

I had never heard of Leslie Flint before actually, and a quick Google doesn't bring up a whole lot of information. Frankly I'm not convinced that the tests he underwent were as thoroughly scientific as you claim. As far as I can tell, he always held seances in pitch black. They had him drink some water, yet there were still voices. They sealed his mouth shut, but there were still voices.

Now, I'm no magician, but I know some of you at least frequent that forum. But I don't see any of these tests account for any equipment that could have been installed in the room which could produce these voices. Or the fact that anyone in the seance could have been producing the sounds. I can't see anywhere which states who selected the participants for the seance, but I'm betting mr. flint did.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, all I can really find are some recordings and some claims about how tested he has been.

"I'm not claiming that the knowledge of the afterlife is being withheld by the church, but rather that the church has distorted the nature of the afterlife to serve its own ends. i.e follow our rules or be dammed to eternal hellfire. When you listen to the recordings of these seances, you realise that nothing could be further from the truth.
You will also realise that these seances fall under the scientific guidelines of 'repeatable experiment', and are worthy of sober investigation; the information they provide is consistent, and over many years, and in many different parts of the world"

You say because it's reproducible that it is worthy of scientific investigation. Well, not necessarily. It is reproducible, but only by mediums. It is only reproducible under certain conditions (usually set by the medium). If the results are not obtained, the excuse could be that "the spirits were not active" or "your testing machine is disturbing the spirit". This hit and miss tactic is used commonly in cold reading for example. This makes it unfalsifiable. You cannot prove it wrong no matter how much testing you carried out. So, while this alone does not prove that mediums are all fakes, it does mean that it cannot be considered a scientific theory.

"So in regards saying that this topic does not fall within the realm of scientific inquiry because it's a 'supernatural process' , I would strongly disagree.
In any case, the same can be said of atoms and blackholes"

Atoms and blackholes can be observed at any lab with the capacity to do so (well you can't "see" them but you can measure them). This cannot be done with any kind of afterlife. While an afterlife may exist (I see no reason why it should but anyway..) we could not test it, simply because it cannot be observed, monitored or measured. That is why I used the word supernatural.

"Did the cosmological constant come about by chance?"

Well I don't know, I don't see why it must have been "set" to the value it has though. I don't know, why, but it's not correct to assume creation just because it's not known.

"Life is a natural process, death is a natural process. One is defined by the other, the two are inseparable. And as such, it is a false dichotomy. Both life and death are one, existence, in other words."

I'm kind of lost here a little. Yeah life and death are natural. While alive your brain is active, in death it is not. That's natural. What is supernatural is the concept of something happening after this.

bikeblues

I just want to make it clear that the current stance is that life formed over billions of years starting from simple self replicating RNA molecules in a PCR type reaction.

time is irrelevant - even if a pre RNA soup existed then the more time there is the less likely the end product could be RNA - any chemical soup such as this will not revert to higher order molecules over time
higher order molecules will degrade over time .
UV light , oxygen , etc will destroy them .

there fore - its is either not possible - or someone creamed off the higher order pre RNA or actual RNA - and put it somewhere safe

how do you factor in molecular chirality - left handed and right handed structure - in vivo ?

and
reaction reverseabilty ?

protein / amino reactions have an end product of water and are reversible - but these reactions would have had to have occured in water as a solvent - no reversible reaction will proced to an end point creating more of an end product already in abundance.( ie water )

bikeblues

bonkey wrote: »

O

If what bikeblues meant to say was that science says it is not possible for physical life to begin, thats also inaccurate.

Science may not yet have a working model of abiogenesis, but certainly does not say that such a model cannot exist.

science and statistics DOES say that life is impossible to begin

and no model will ever be possible , as it is scentifically impossible .

bonkey

bikeblues wrote: »

science and statistics DOES say that life is impossible to begin

Could you provide any citations?

I can't prove that it doesn't (because proof of non-existence is impossible), but would suggest that there's an awful lot of study into abiogenesis....which would seem strange if its already accepted that abiogenesis is impossible.

The only claims of such impossibility that I can think of come from Creationism....which only pretends to be a science.

Undergod

RoboClam wrote: »

OK that's fine. If there are other dimensions, then we clearly cannot understand them or test them.

Maybe not with current scientific knowledge, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing cannot be observed somehow, at least in theory. If a thing exists then it must be able to produce some kind of effect on some other object, otherwise the idea of its existence is meaningless.

It's for this reason that I think the notion of the supernatural is bull****. It's either real (and perhaps outside the boundaries of what we currently regard as science) or it isn't.

mcmoustache

bonkey wrote: »

Or put more simply...no, the science does not say that physical life is just not possible.

From the simplest perspective, we can observe physical life, ergo physical life must be possible.

If what bikeblues meant to say was that science says it is not possible for physical life to begin, thats also inaccurate.

Science may not yet have a working model of abiogenesis, but certainly does not say that such a model cannot exist.

Not to mention the fact that we have evidence of it happening at least once in this universe.

mcmoustache

Undergod wrote: »

Maybe not with current scientific knowledge, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing cannot be observed somehow, at least in theory. If a thing exists then it must be able to produce some kind of effect on some other object, otherwise the idea of its existence is meaningless.

That almost a definition for existence if you exclude abstract constructs. If something can't be observed in this universe, then it might as well just not exist. We have no practical means to interact with particles outside of our own universe

IrelandSpirit

RoboClam wrote: »

Thanks for your response. While I may not actually agree with the content, I still think it's a pretty well written post which brings your arguments together well.

I had never heard of Leslie Flint before actually, and a quick Google doesn't bring up a whole lot of information. Frankly I'm not convinced that the tests he underwent were as thoroughly scientific as you claim. As far as I can tell, he always held seances in pitch black. They had him drink some water, yet there were still voices. They sealed his mouth shut, but there were still voices.

Now, I'm no magician, but I know some of you at least frequent that forum. But I don't see any of these tests account for any equipment that could have been installed in the room which could produce these voices. Or the fact that anyone in the seance could have been producing the sounds. I can't see anywhere which states who selected the participants for the seance, but I'm betting mr. flint did.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, all I can really find are some recordings and some claims about how tested he has been.

"I'm not claiming that the knowledge of the afterlife is being withheld by the church, but rather that the church has distorted the nature of the afterlife to serve its own ends. i.e follow our rules or be dammed to eternal hellfire. When you listen to the recordings of these seances, you realise that nothing could be further from the truth.
You will also realise that these seances fall under the scientific guidelines of 'repeatable experiment', and are worthy of sober investigation; the information they provide is consistent, and over many years, and in many different parts of the world"

You say because it's reproducible that it is worthy of scientific investigation. Well, not necessarily. It is reproducible, but only by mediums. It is only reproducible under certain conditions (usually set by the medium). If the results are not obtained, the excuse could be that "the spirits were not active" or "your testing machine is disturbing the spirit". This hit and miss tactic is used commonly in cold reading for example. This makes it unfalsifiable. You cannot prove it wrong no matter how much testing you carried out. So, while this alone does not prove that mediums are all fakes, it does mean that it cannot be considered a scientific theory.

"So in regards saying that this topic does not fall within the realm of scientific inquiry because it's a 'supernatural process' , I would strongly disagree.
In any case, the same can be said of atoms and blackholes"

Atoms and blackholes can be observed at any lab with the capacity to do so (well you can't "see" them but you can measure them). This cannot be done with any kind of afterlife. While an afterlife may exist (I see no reason why it should but anyway..) we could not test it, simply because it cannot be observed, monitored or measured. That is why I used the word supernatural.

"Did the cosmological constant come about by chance?"

Well I don't know, I don't see why it must have been "set" to the value it has though. I don't know, why, but it's not correct to assume creation just because it's not known.

"Life is a natural process, death is a natural process. One is defined by the other, the two are inseparable. And as such, it is a false dichotomy. Both life and death are one, existence, in other words."

I'm kind of lost here a little. Yeah life and death are natural. While alive your brain is active, in death it is not. That's natural. What is supernatural is the concept of something happening after this.

Thank you for your comments and thank you for staying relatively on topic. I started this thread for anybody wishing to investigate the suppression of evidence for the afterlife by our present governing institutions. The subject is kept firmly out of the corporate-controlled mainstream - unless it's for the purposes of ridicule or fearmongering - and I had assumed that most people here would've at least done a bit of research into afterlife communication and the many prominent scientists who have been involved. To my mind, it is perhaps the mother of all CTs and I thought it would have been beneficial in achieving some perspective over the 'Big Picture..'


In any case RoboClam, I do of course realise that there are some amazing magic tricks out there, and there have no doubt been many fraudulent mediums too. Was Leslie Flint a fraud? I personally don't think so.

(BTW, he didn't just drink some water, he was tied to chair, made to hold a coloured liquid (pink for identification) in his mouth and then gagged. After the session the same amount of liquid was produced.)

It is possible he was just tricking everybody though, I'm not saying it is not.

Mediums like Florence Cook and Holmes, however, would've have had to have been geniuses to completely fool a team of scientist the calibre of Oliver Lodge, Crookes et al. And consistently fooled them, using mere magic tricks, and over decades of rigours scrutiny. Given that these are some of the greatest minds of modern science, how likely is it that they weren't knowledgeable of the type of tricks a fraud could employ? And yet that's the predominant stance that mainstream science takes, while simultaneously having the highest regard for their discoveries and contributions to science in all other areas.

This I find an irreconcilable contradiction. They were using the scientific method to achieve their results in all other fields, except afterlife communication?

I find that impossible to believe. It's pretty obvious that their work was valid, threatened the established order and was subsequently suppressed. A familiar story.

If mediums like Florence Cook were just using magic tricks to consistently reproduce voices from the afterlife, and reproduce the physical, tangible appearance of people who once lived on earth (thousands of times, literally), they would've had a far more profitable life performing their tricks on stage - magicians of that calibre would have surpassed the Great Houdini by miles.

It must also be remembered that not only were these the leading scientists of the day, but that they were complete sceptics and ingrained in the establishment too - in fact Crookes was tasked by the British Government for the job of debunking these mediums specifically. It was only after they failed in this, that he realised he was dealing with a genuine phenomena of afterlife communication.

(I'd try to respond to your last query if you first answer this: Is there any evidence that the mind is physically located in the brain, and if so, where?)

RoboClam

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

(I'd try to respond to your last query if you first answer this: Is there any evidence that the mind is physically located in the brain, and if so, where?)

It's pretty much agreed that it is the brain that gives rise to the mind, yes. Cognitive neuroscience is the study of this relationship.

No other organ in the human body has the same neural complexity that the brain has. The brain has >100 billion neurons. This kind of complexity is needed to account for what we call the mind.

I guess the best way of showing that the mind (The mind can be categorized by sensation, perception, attention, imagination, emotion, motivation, memory and many more) is part of the brain is simply observing the effects that brain injuries/ illnesses can have on a persons mind.

There's an interesting review called "Theory of mind-evolution, ontogeny, brain mechanisms and psychopathology".

Here's a quote relevant to your question:

In humans, functional brain imaging studies have revealed that a homologous area of the temporal lobe is activated by observation of seemingly purposeful movements of inanimate objects (as opposed to random movements), and even when still photographs depict ‘implied’ motion. For example, such activity could be elicited by showing human subjects pictures of a discus thrower in action, whereas no such activity could be measured when the discus thrower was at rest. Activity in parts of the STS, therefore, is linked to the observation of intentional movements. Although this does not imply conscious awareness, the representation of ‘intentions’ is certainly a critical aspect of theory of mind.

Or in the paper "Exploring theory of mind after severe traumatic brain injury"

Previous studies have provided convincing evidence of a deficit in the capacity to infer others' mental states in patients with severe TBI (traumatic brain injury). A range of tasks has been used to assess ToM(Theory of Mind) in the TBI population. Bibby and McDonald (2005) reported that TBI subjects performed poorly in false belief tasks, which measure the ability of someone to understand that another person can hold a belief that is mistaken. Milders et al. (2003) found impairment in the faux pas detection task. A faux pas occurs when someone say something they should not have said, not knowing or not realizing that they should not say it. False belief and faux pas tasks are considered as “verbal” tasks, in the sense that they consist in short verbal stories. Other forms of ToM tasks have been developed with a view to minimizing the verbal component of ToM performance. These tasks with significantly reduced verbal demands are usually called “non-verbal” tasks, even if they require some spared language abilities to achieve them. Such tasks have been used to assess ToM following TBI. Havet-Thomassin et al. (2006) found impairments in the character intention task (Sarfati et al., 1997 Y. Sarfati, M.C. Hardy-Baylé, C. Besche and D. Widlöcher, Attribution of intentions to others in people with schizophrenia: a non verbal exploration with comic-strips, Schizophrenia Research 25 (1997), pp. 199–209. Abstract | PDF (668 K) | View Record in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus (85)Sarfati et al., 1997). This consisted of short comic strips which were designed to show a character performing an action motivated by an easily recognizable intention. Subjects were asked to design the correct ending that corresponded to the character's intention. Havet-Thomassin et al. (2006) and Henry et al. (2006) demonstrated that TBI subjects also performed poorly in the Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test (Baron-Cohen et al., 2001), which is based on photographs of eyes.

bikeblues

I guess the main point im making is -
why look for an after life , when this life is as strange and dubious as an after life

if you could solve 100% how life started here ,
I think you would be well on the way to solving the after life mystery

personally - believe all life starts as an energy template , a 'spirtual skeleton' so to speak - that atoms arrange themselves around .

and this template is required before a life can manifest in physical form .

case in point is muscle building - it takes an incredible amount of training to become heavily muscle bound - yet if you stop , the muscle wastes way.
BUT
if you train again , the muscle grows back to its massive size alot easier than the first build.

this would appear to be due to
1/ some muscle memory of previous size is kept by the body
2/ alteration to the spiritual or energy template was still there from the last build , so the muscle easily grew into it to fill the energy space it had created before with hard training.

RoboClam

bikeblues wrote: »

personally - believe all life starts as an energy template , a 'spirtual skeleton' so to speak - that atoms arrange themselves around .

and this template is required before a life can manifest in physical form .

What force could be manipulating atoms in this way though? We have gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces and electromagnetism. No other forces have ever been observed. If such a force could manipulate atoms in the way you describe, it should be detectable should it not?

thecommander

bikeblues wrote: »

personally - believe all life starts as an energy template , a 'spirtual skeleton' so to speak - that atoms arrange themselves around .

Thats basically DNA.

bonkey

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Volumes of research data, verified accounts of experiences, and recordings of people from the afterlife are available today.

I started this thread for anybody wishing to investigate the suppression of evidence for the afterlife by our present governing institutions.

Can you explain how you think there is suppression, when the research mentioned is so obviously carried out, and the volumes of data available?

bikeblues

RoboClam wrote: »

What force could be manipulating atoms in this way though? We have gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces and electromagnetism. No other forces have ever been observed. If such a force could manipulate atoms in the way you describe, it should be detectable should it not?

an as yet undiiscovered force - ie a spritual force - this is what i am implying - there is another level of structure underneath the physical

bikeblues

thecommander wrote: »

Thats basically DNA.

no, as i said - in body builders - the expansion oft he body size takes tremdendous effort - this is no coded in the dna - if you give it up , it takes far less effrot to repeat th process- so possibly you have expandee your spirtual template as well, which remains , wiating for you to refill it if you are so inclined .

similary - amputees report ghost limbs , and feelings in amputated limbs .
as if some structure still remains .

yes it could all be muscle memory and brain remmembering - but it could also imply an invisible structure

IrelandSpirit

bonkey wrote: »

Can you explain how you think there is suppression, when the research mentioned is so obviously carried out, and the volumes of data available?

Think about it, wouldn't the survival of life after death be the greatest discovery of all time?

The suppression comes in many forms, in the form of the manipulation and distortion of the data by the mainstream - both religious and secular - coupled with ridicule and hostility towards anybody presenting theories which run against their agendas: greed and control. Add to that the old tried and tested 'don't talk about it and it'll go away' and you have the basic formula for suppression.

It was suppressed for centuries - even now, in 'the great information age', how many science students know what their mentors (and heroes) we're really discovering about the true nature of reality - put your hand on heart and tell me 'sure, I knew all about Crookes' discoveries on the afterlife', or any of those prominent names on that link I provided for you.

"We have had the experimental proof of survival after death ever since Sir William Crookes published the results of his experiments in the leading scientific journal of his day - The Quarterly Journal of Science - in 1874. These were repeatable experiments under laboratory conditions. International teams of scientists then repeated the experiments and obtained the same results. People who had once lived on earth came back and proved to these scientific teams that they had conquered death and were still very much alive. This is what Professor Charles Richet, the French Nobel Laureate for medical science, said about the experiments:

"There is ample proof that experimental materialisations should take definite rank as a scientific fact."

http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/scientificproof/scientificproof1.html


I suggested that you perhaps look at Crookes, Lodge, Baird, et al, because they are well-known respected scientists, and apart from the fact their experiments proved the existence of the afterlife, that's around the time when modern science began and that's where the suppression of scientific evidence began too.

If you don't have time to check all this, i do understand - I'm upto my neck in work at the moment - but if you do get the chance and want an introduction to this topic, I recommend this interview:


Michael Roll Interview with Lou Bondi (Part 1 of 6)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAt0zeiiAc8

digme

IrelandSpirit,I just finished watching the interviews and I must say firstly, the interviewer did a fantastic job,secondly and most importantly, I can't get my head around how this could have remained suppressed,he says they need to convince the mediums to work with the scientists, and to go against the grain,so why hasn't one single medium come forward and worked with the scientists,why is it he also says the internet is here now so we can release this revelation "bombshell" to the world at large, when all you have to do was, ring a newspaper-- tv-- station or any other media outlet,and go ahead and just release this tape they claim can be made.

I believe clairvoyants can see dead people,so lets have the science and stop the yapping.
Or do we need to wait another 19 years for ipv6..

IrelandSpirit

digme wrote: »

IrelandSpirit,I just finished watching the interviews and I must say firstly, the interviewer did a fantastic job,secondly and most importantly, I can't get my head around how this could have remained suppressed,he says they need to convince the mediums to work with the scientists, and to go against the grain,so why hasn't one single medium come forward and worked with the scientists,why is it he also says the internet is here now so we can release this revelation "bombshell" to the world at large, when all you have to do was, ring a newspaper-- tv-- station or any other media outlet,and go ahead and just release this tape they claim can be made.

I believe clairvoyants can see dead people,so lets have the science and stop the yapping.
Or do we need to wait another 19 years for ipv6..

Yeah, I know, and that interview was back in 07 and there's been nothing about it in mainstream outlets - I did read somewhere that the funding fell through, but I'm unclear on the story. He's active on this site though:

http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/microbes.html

They also had the backing of that Nobel Laureate for Physics, Professor B.D. Josephson, who is working from the Cavendish Laboratory at Cambridge:

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/

You'd think that the funding would pour-in...

Thing is about that interview too, is that he's very enthusiastic about bringing this information to the attention of the mainstream, to get it out there and hopefully have more scientists taking it on, and he seems to be coming from a good place, but when he starts putting rense into the mix, I dunno... but to me he kinda seems a bit nieve. Like, he hadn't fully copped on to what he was going up against.

uprising

I didn't really want to reply to this thread for various reason's.
Firstly I don't believe in death, I think life goes on, this life is not the be all and end all of our existance. Life is a test.
A few years ago my girlfrind got a medium to our house, my GF and her friends were seeing her, I wasn't, the things she said she could not have known, she gave a message to one of the girls to give to her boyfriend, he was totally a sceptic, but he went white with the cryptic little thing that was said, he wondered how this woman knew this one thing that nobody except him and a dead friend only knew.

Then a while after that they got another medium, she was going to another friend of my GF's house, I drove a couple of them over and as they were getting out of the car, her friend came out and said one of the girls that was supposed to see the medium couldn't make it and they were 1 person short, she asked would I take her place, I said no, but they wouldn't stop asking and shamed me into it.
When the medium arrived I said I was going first, I was sure she was going to try extract info from me, I gave nothing away, yes..no was all I was prepared to say. She asked me to pick cards tarot or angel cards or whatever they were, then she turned them and start talking, she start describing features of a few of my friends that had died, explaining how they died, family members who had died, a little message from each, again each message from these various dead friends were true, and more importantly were very specific to each person she was talking about.
Before that had happened my best lifelong friend had died suddenly in very unnatural circumstances, that had affected me deep inside, I was thinking of revenge, I never shared my thoughts of revenge with anybody, this woman I had never met before in my life told me not to do it, I said "Do what?", she told me exactly what, I was dumbstruck staring at her as she in a matter of fact way told me my exact plan. She explained a few other things I won't go into, but everything was spot on.
Either she was getting this info from a spirit or she was reading my mind.

Science is an art of athiests, science would be fukked if it were to acknowledge any form of spiritual existance, it would be a headache for science to admit because it would open up unanswerable questions, put some of their theories in the bin. Science and existance of spirits are not compatible.

Now having said that I don't know who these spirits are, are they who they claim to be, are they imposters?, I don't know.
I wouldn't go to see one again, some mediums are con artists, pure and simple, others can contact something, but something happened that made me question who and what these spirits are, I'm not convinced they were who they were supposed to be.

Oh and another thing, the first house I bought was haunted, thing's used to vanish for days and mysteriously reappear where they should have been all along, footsteps running across the rooms upstairs, it wasn't frightening it was comforting to know.

Bottom line is I believe the soul doesn't die, it continues, there is an afterlife, but I don't trust these mediums/psychics/fortune tellers contact who they claim it is.

kryogen

uprising wrote: »

I wouldn't go to see one again, some mediums are con artists, pure and simple, others can contact something, but something happened that made me question who and what these spirits are, I'm not convinced they were who they were supposed to be.

really?

what happened?

IrelandSpirit

uprising wrote: »

I didn't really want to reply to this thread for various reason's.
Firstly I don't believe in death, I think life goes on, this life is not the be all and end all of our existance. Life is a test.

Bottom line is I believe the soul doesn't die, it continues, there is an afterlife, but I don't trust these mediums/psychics/fortune tellers contact who they claim it is.

Many afterlife speakers refer to our sphere of existence as The Nursery, yes like you say a 'test', a type of school. They also warn of mischievous souls who are, for want of better words, spiritually unevolved, and who will for their own earth-bound concerns (anger, resentments, regrets, etc) try to influence us in the negative ways you describe.

This is the reason why reputable mediums generally have what they call a 'control', usually a person who's crossed over willing to act as a guardian, a type of spiritual 'bouncer', who will keep a seance free from these types of mischievous elements.

Without going too much into the 'nature - nurture' argument, I don't like to use the word evil in all this. I believe people are innately good, sure we're capable of 'evil' acts, but I see that more like a sickness, a pathology if you like, rather than an innate element of the human condition.

There are some very enlightening recordings of people describing the conditions they find themselves when they cross over, which you might be interested in listening to. For example:

Alfred Pritchatt, a British soldier
Killed in battle during World War I in 1917 or 1918

Recorded April 11, 1960

http://adcguides.com/alfpritchatt.htm

There are other speakers on that site which go into great detail too, but i particularly enjoyed Alf's description. He's nobody famous or special, as he says, and comes across very down to earth, hahaha.

I tend try and just take on the information and message itself, rather than question the messenger too much. It's overall a very positive message they have for us, and it's consistently positive.

I'm going to try and contact the author of that website later, and see if he's willing to answer some questions, particularly on any scientific work which might be going on now that we don't know about....

digme

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Many afterlife speakers refer to our sphere of existence as The Nursery, yes like you say a 'test', a type of school. They also warn of mischievous souls who are, for want of better words, spiritually unevolved, and who will for their own earth-bound concerns (anger, resentments, regrets, etc) try to influence us in the negative ways you describe.

This is the reason why reputable mediums generally have what they call a 'control', usually a person who's crossed over willing to act as a guardian, a type of spiritual 'bouncer', who will keep a seance free from these types of mischievous elements.

Without going too much into the 'nature - nurture' argument, I don't like to use the word evil in all this. I believe people are innately good, sure we're capable of 'evil' acts, but I see that more like a sickness, a pathology if you like, rather than an innate element of the human condition.

There are some very enlightening recordings of people describing the conditions they find themselves when they cross over, which you might be interested in listening to. For example:

Alfred Pritchatt, a British soldier
Killed in battle during World War I in 1917 or 1918

Recorded April 11, 1960

http://adcguides.com/alfpritchatt.htm

There are other speakers on that site which go into great detail too, but i particularly enjoyed Alf's description. He's nobody famous or special, as he says, and comes across very down to earth, hahaha.

I tend try and just take on the information and message itself, rather than question the messenger too much. It's overall a very positive message they have for us, and it's consistently positive.

I'm going to try and contact the author of that website later, and see if he's willing to answer some questions, particularly on any scientific work which might be going on now that we don't know about....

Keep us updated IrelandSpirit,as I like this type of discussion a lot!

PirateShampoo

Well i don't know if theres a conspiracy hide the "fact" of a Afterlife, but i do genuinely believe there is one, Ive had a few experiences in my childhood that makes me believe there is one.

Also don't and cant except that once we are gone then we are gone.

Foxhound38

Prove in any tangible way that the spirit exists independent of the body and you will have taken the first step in proving your theory. Personally I think that we are to most extents our brains. Brain ceases to function, thought process ceases to function - that's it.

espinolman

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

The truth was obscured first by the church that dominated Western culture until the seventeenth century, then by materialism that took hold of Western thought from the seventeenth century until today.

It may be that bankers are behind the suppression of evidence of the afterlife !

Before the merging of marine law and common law , people were sovereign , people were their own country and considered a soul that were born and owned their own body and completely responsible for it

At this time , when a person is registered at birth it is at that time that a legal person is being created and its done to create a taxpayer, the individual human being is turned into a corporation and are no longer a soul that owns a body !

Its explained in these videos :

Panacea's Free Energy Suppression production (Part 2, Segment 24 of 31)

Panacea's Free Energy Suppression production (Part 2, Segment 25 of 31)

me_right_one

The way I see it, some people believe in an afterlife, some don't. Some people believe they landed human beings on the moon 50 years ago eventhough they can't do it now, some don't.

To say evidence of the afterlife is being suppressed is irrelevant. Similarly, to say evidence of a moon landing hoax is being suppressed, is also completely irrelevant. How is it going to affect your daily life in any way?

The only relevant thing is now. What you're doing, who you meet, what you eat, thats all in the here-and-now, and its the only reality we humans have at the moment. What happens when we die (if anything) is completely out of our control.

So why would anyone want to have this big hush-hush coverup? Even if there was some proof that an afterlife exists, what advantage could anyone who held that information have that over someone who didnt have it? Are there only a fixed number of places in heaven for example? Why keep it quiet?

And if evidence was leaked to the mainstream public, and proven to be correct, and the public opinion swayed to one of complete acceptance of the existance of an afterlife as much as its believed hubble sees faraway galaxies (eventhough they could all just be photoshopped), how is that going to make any difference to the world as it is at present? Something like 80% of people believe in an afterlife anyway!!! So why the suppression?

And to suggest that the church is hiding evidence is just ignorance. Sure its the church who never shuttup ramming it down everybody's throats' that there's an afterlife!:rolleyes:

http://www.allanstime.com/Spiritual/gratitute.htm

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide04.html

JFTR, I do believe in an afterlife.

digme

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Prove in any tangible way that the spirit exists independent of the body and you will have taken the first step in proving your theory. Personally I think that we are to most extents our brains. Brain ceases to function, thought process ceases to function - that's it.

That's been done already as far as i know?
I'm sure someone weight bodies before and after death,could be wrong though,not certain.

digme

me_right_one wrote: »

To say evidence of the afterlife is being suppressed is irrelevant. Similarly, to say evidence of a moon landing hoax is being suppressed, is also completely irrelevant. How is it going to affect your daily life in any way?
.

Society as we know it would fall apart.knowing whether an afterlife exists or not, will have no effect on your daily life is asinine,and quite ridiculous to say the least.
Life would be totally different.It would resemble david deangelo thoughts on how to understand women,get your mouse, and turn it back to front and try use it,try it,it's ridiculous,everything is backwards.

espinolman

me_right_one wrote: »

So why would anyone want to have this big hush-hush coverup? .

I explained why in my last post here , to turn humans into corporations , so humans are no longer considered sovereign , they are considered property that the banks can borrow money on , because you are a owned corporation , you see when your birth cert is registered , your body is owned and your are no longer a soul that owns your body .

RoboClam

digme wrote: »

That's been done already as far as i know?
I'm sure someone weight bodies before and after death,could be wrong though,not certain.

It's a common misconception, more of an urban myth actually. Yes bodies were measured upon death and yes a scientist recorded varying loss in weight.

However his methods were flawed and no attempts to duplicate the findings have been successful.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp