Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..Mod Warning Post 275

Wibbs

Its still conjecture though so lets keep it to a minimum folks.

But yep Raiser exactly what you said in your first line.

oceanclub

AntiRip wrote: »

I totally agree with you. Sorry to everyone. I just thought I could build up the confidence and say whats been said but at the end of the day a judgment has been made. I just really hope this sort of thing doesn't put off anyone in reporting such crimes. I really hope this doesn't happen.

Sorry again guys

Didn't stop you using boards.ie to start sending PMs around, did it?

P.

Dave!

hick wrote: »

that's as bad as one of those people who went up and shook his hand, you need to understand the full facts before you make any decision,
and before you start no I do not condone what A COURT WITH THE FACTS has said has happened here and fair play to that lady for having the strength to go through this

Unless the 'full facts' are that she had her knickers around her ankles cos in her drunken state she needed to pee, and the gentleman who happened upon her was helping her put them back on, there is nothing that could be said to justify it

Oryx

oceanclub wrote: »

Didn't stop you using boards.ie to start sending PMs around, did it?

P.

Which has what to do with this issue?

oceanclub

Oryx wrote: »

Which has what to do with this issue?

You don't see anything wrong with using private messages here to start a whispering campaign against a sex victim???

P.

Oryx

oceanclub wrote: »

You don't see anything wrong with using private messages here to start a whispering campaign against a sex victim???

P.

Why, did you receive a pm that did that? If so and you have a problem, you can report it.

oceanclub

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Lot of people being shocked by the priest shaking the man's hand; that doesn't surprise me. He's a priest; he's meant to love everyone, regardless of what they have done.

Don't try and spin it. Did he say anything to the victim? Did he show _her_ love and shake her hand?

Also, he's come out saying that this is "a miscarriage of justice".

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priest-says-he-has-no-regrets-for-supporting-sex-offender-in-court-1979386.html

So please, no more bull**** about Sheehy being just happy-clappy.

P.

oceanclub

Oryx wrote: »

Why, did you receive a pm that did that? If so and you have a problem, you can report it.

*facepalm*

The bloke himself ADMITTED on the forum that he was sending PMs around.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63538920#post63538920

I find it ironic that publically-accessible Facebook links are being deleted, to defend those who are publically threatening to "get" the victim - yet this appears to be fine.

P.

Oryx

oceanclub wrote: »

*facepalm*

The bloke himself ADMITTED on the forum that he was sending PMs around.

P.

In this thread, he sent one, which he mentioned. To me. You have no idea of its content, which is the purpose of private messages. So again, if you have a problem with a pm you recieved, thats a separate issue.


Mods, I realise Im off topic...sorry.

Wibbs

oceanclub as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, if you have a problem with a PM you received, then please report it.

Private messages are just that, private. Not even admins can read them unless they are reported and only the particular one reported.

So do not bring it up on this thread again. Thank you.

Radharc na Sleibhte

_michelle_ wrote: »

it really brings home how simple & uneducated country people can act!

Thats quite a sweeping generalisation there, well done.:rolleyes:

Snickers Man

I remember hearing last year that some town in Kerry had decided to ban unaccompanied men from a children's playground on child safety grounds.

It wasn't Listowel, was it?

Handsome Bob

The stupidity and naivety of some people bewilders me sometimes. Put aside the actual details of the case for a moment, I can't believe so many people shook his hand and in all likelyness in front of a few media crews. I hope they realise that the "soldiarity" they showed with this bloke is going to bring a media shit-storm down upon them, and proper order I say.

avalon68

herya wrote: »

50 men in a town the size of Listowel is a huge crowd,

It most certainly is not - Listowel is quite a large town - My OH is from Listowel and I spend quite a lot of time there.....I definitely would not consider it a rural area either....and its not a village, its a town. And I would also like to add that a whole town should not be judged by the actions of a few.

Wibbs

The family, girlfriend and priest is on TV3 defending him as we speak. Jeez the priest seems adamant and is also calling into question of the victims integrity. This is a weird one it has to be said.

Warfi

Wibbs wrote: »

The family, girlfriend and priest is on TV3 defending him as we speak. Jeez the priest seems adamant and is also calling into question of the victims integrity. This is a weird one it has to be said.

+1

They even have video proof that shows him carrying her to the skip area! Dan Foley (with his mother egging him on) must be the ultimate manipulator to have his family, girlfriend, priest and fifty well wishers believe that he didn't do anything wrong.
What is it about Dan Foley that has people acting like this?

Wibbs

LZ5by5 wrote: »

The stupidity and naivety of some people bewilders me sometimes. Put aside the actual details of the case for a moment, I can't believe so many people shook his hand and in all likelyness in front of a few media crews. I hope they realise that the "soldiarity" they showed with this bloke is going to bring a media shit-storm down upon them, and proper order I say.

Yea I agree. I'm just trying to put myself in their mindset. If it was a friend of mine and I actually believed him or her? I'd support them too and wouldnt give to hoots about who was watching TBH. They clearly believe for whatever daft or good reason that he's innocent or not guilty anyway.

PopUp

They have all tied their reputations to his. They have to go all in. It's not about logic, it's about pride.

The more people criticise him, the more they will rally round. In fact outside criticism is probably MORE likely to get them to double down.

The girlfriend admitted she hasn't seen the CCTV footage. I doubt the priest has either. They don't care about the truth, they care about someone they see as 'one of them'. For him to be convicted means the girlfriend is a fool, the priest is gullible, the mother raised a brute, and the local people who liked Foley more than the victim are cruel and misguided. Who would want to believe that about themselves?

Wibbs

Warfi wrote: »

What is it about Dan Foley that has people acting like this?

Maybe, but maybe we're asking the wrong question there. I would be asking what is it about the victim that has people acting like this?

That's the more important question in my mind. It plugs into why more women dont come forward too. Do they genuinely believe she is lying, was "asking for it" and all that or is it a more general feeling among many that sexual assault is either not that big a deal or as I say "some women ask for it" etc.

oceanclub

Warfi wrote: »

What is it about Dan Foley that has people acting like this?

It could be that he's just a plausible thuggish charmer, a big fish in a small town. Nothing more than that.

P.

PopUp

oceanclub wrote: »

It could be that he's just a plausible thuggish charmer, a big fish in a small town. Nothing more than that.

Yes, and I would say as well it may have a lot to do with his mother's reputation and standing in the community. Sure she's a lovely lady, always doing the flowers at mass, helps out local charities, look how upset she is... (just an example, I don't know her or anybody in Listowel).

Madame Razz

50men isn't really that large a number; they could easily have been 50members of his extended family. I'm originally from about 30miles or so from there and already today I've heard a number of different stories.

The whole thing is very odd.

NameMe

I think this thread should be locked

what is it about anymore?

it's about looking down at the stupid culchies who back their own regardless of deeds

For example, Michael Lowry is implicated in a corruption scandal and what happens, he gets more popular. Why? because regardless of the fact he's a cheating unethical corrupt prick with all the integrity of a pimp, it is perceived by some of the locals that he is being bullied by the Dublin media and the intellectual elite, the whole issue metamorphises into a class thing and that only rallies/frenzies the locals even more and the real issue (corruption, abuse of power) is all but forgotten about.

So what is this thread about?

The title says "Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..", well regardless of how he is perceived by the locals he is now going to have to serve out a sentence after being convicted for the crime - THAT IS THE KEY ISSUE

the more people here whinge and moan about how SOME of Listowel's finest are still backing their boy, THE MORE THEY WILL BACK HIM. They are entitled to back him regardless of your contempt for what he has done. Why is it so surprising to you that his family and friends and even a local priest speak in his defence? Small communities are well-known for being close-knit and clannish, why are people so shocked by SOME local reaction?

just let it go, he is doing the time for the crime, PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO FEEL HOWEVER THEY WISH ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, no matter how ill-informed or prejudiced you may feel that view to be.

I hate how this debate is being sidetracked - it is petty, small-minded and pretty idiotic in my view to target his supporters.

He has been convicted, they may feel about him however do wish.

I can't see a reason why this isn't locked.

PopUp

Where did anyone say anything about stupid culchies? This thread isn't being 'sidetracked', it was started to wonder about why there would be such public support for a convicted sex offender.

It's nothing personal to Listowel. There are people who will behave like this in any community. The fact that it's a small community (pop c.4,000 I believe) is relevant though because it makes the campaign of intimidation against the victim so much more effective. It also means that everybody in the community knows both parties (or at the least they know their families). If this had happened in my suburb of Dublin I'm sure there could be people like the mother and girlfriend ready to believe in innocence that contradicts video evidence. But the girl would not be hounded out of shops, because there are enough people and enough shops that nobody would know her. It would also be harder to rally 50 local upstanding members of the community because in a populous area there is less social pressure to take sides.

Again, it's nothing against Listowel. Halve the population of my suburb, transplant it from Dublin, and you would see similar behaviour.

But this whole thread is about a community response and you can't talk about that without talking about the community.

The mentality here - 50 people in a courtroom! - repeated appearances on the press! - is almost unprecedented and it is hard to understand. But I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning it and trying to understand it.

the more people here whinge and moan about how SOME of Listowel's finest are still backing their boy, THE MORE THEY WILL BACK HIM.

As far as that goes, I think you are absolutely right.

metrovelvet

Is there a law in place where you can take the trial out of a small town and into another jurisdiction?

The US has something called a 1982 [i am open to correction on the exact term] which allows for a case to be heard somewhere else, to avoid corrupted or undue influence on the judge and the jury.

This is a real lesson in the dangers of community.

givyjoe81

metrovelvet wrote: »

Is there a law in place where you can take the trial out of a small town and into another jurisdiction?

The US has something called a 1982 [i am open to correction on the exact term] which allows for a case to be heard somewhere else, to avoid corrupted or undue influence on the judge and the jury.

This is a real lesson in the dangers of community.

Errr, i would have thought this case showed why your above reference to US law SHOULD NOT apply. I mean despite so many people choosing to believe that he wasnt guilty, or should i say... were still supporting him, he was still convicted.

Lockstep

suimhneas wrote: »

Just another example of why people are shunning the catholic church in their droves. I dont think that love the sinner and totally ignore the victim is in any part of any bible. We should stop talking abou this as we are getting no place
What happened to this girl was wrong,
what them old foggies did in court was wrong,
what the priest did was wrong, but for once the sentence is finally fitting the crime we are so use to soft sentences in this country all i can say is lets hope more judges hand down sentences like this might act as some sort of deterrant.

Catholicism isn't fundamentalist; it doesn't rely on a literal interpretation of the Bible. "Love the sinner hate the sin" is presumably derived from the Jesus hanging out with prostitutes, tax collectors and so on, telling people not to stone an adulteress if they had committed a sin themselves etc. It's paraphrase.

At any rate, how was what the priest did wrong; it would have been better if he had offered the woman support as well but I fail to see how condoling someone in need is "wrong", regardless of what they have done.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

There are some rural people though that havent seen anything of the world, still controlled by the catholic church and live in the back of beyond, not all people in rural areas are like that but i'v met a lot of them.

And the same can be said for some city people. Or some men. Or some women. Or some travellers, or some settled people.
And so on.

panda100 wrote: »

I
I think you have a fair point. I myself would see the accused more as a victim of a society that disrespects women and treats them as a sex objects, however, the 'Christian' thing for the priest to have done was to also shake hands and sympathise with the victim, while also saying sympathising with her in his statement. From his actions he seems to only have sympathy for the accused.
I will most certainly be writing a letter to him If not paying a visit to him when Im home next week. My great Uncle was parish priest in Listowel for years, a man who I have great respect for as he always made a concerted effort to make the church more inclusive for women.

My heart really goes out to the victim in this case.

I agree; the priests actions were not without fault. However, neither do I think his actions were wrong either. He should have been a bit more balanced.

MissFlitworth wrote: »

I think he's a sh1t no doubt about it and deserves to go to jail, but I'm so uncomfortable with this thing of wishing rape on men in prison as some kind of fair punishment. Rape & sexual assault aren't funny.

Hear hear.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I'm not suprised at all, wouldnt expect anything more from the clergy, wouldnt trust any of them!!!

So you admit that you're not impartial right?

Fink Goddie wrote: »

This is why christianity is a load of sh1te in my opinion!!!

Your opinon, fair enough.

oceanclub wrote: »

Don't try and spin it. Did he say anything to the victim? Did he show _her_ love and shake her hand?

Already adressed.

oceanclub wrote: »

Also, he's come out saying that this is "a miscarriage of justice".

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priest-says-he-has-no-regrets-for-supporting-sex-offender-in-court-1979386.html

So please, no more bull**** about Sheehy being just happy-clappy.

P.

Believing the best in someone is terrible?
Meh.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Its these do gooders that have the laws in this country the way they are, people consider the rights of criminals more than the victims rights!

Ah come on now. THe whole "the law puts criminals first" gets thrown around a lot but do you have any proof for this?

Novella

I honestly just don't understand this at all.

Ok, so I didn't go through and read the whole thread 'cause it is really, really long so maybe I am missing something?

This guy sexually assaulted a girl and yet people are queueing up to shake his hand... Seriously? All I can say is that poor girl. Fair play to her for standing up for herself and being able to say, "This isn't right". I can only imagine the amount of courage that took.

The fact that people seem to be so 'on his side' must be awful for her.

I feel like I must be missing something here 'cause it's just not adding up in my head. Why is he being treated as if he's the victim??

metrovelvet

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Errr, i would have thought this case showed why your above reference to US law SHOULD NOT apply. I mean despite so many people choosing to believe that he wasnt guilty, or should i say... were still supporting him, he was still convicted.

I wasnt saying it should or should not apply, I was just wondering if it existed in Ireland.

But I was thinking the same thing, the people of Listowel cant be that bad or their jury would have let him off. If they found him not guilty, then you would really have to question jury selection in small towns.

I would be very interested to know how they went about jury selection for this case.

SleepDoc

Utterly disgusting to read about this today. All those gobdaws lining up to shake that guys hand while the poor girl sat almost alone in the court. For shame.