Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..Mod Warning Post 275

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metrovelvet wrote: »

But I was thinking the same thing, the people of Listowel cant be that bad or their jury would have let him off. If they found him not guilty, then you would really have to question jury selection in small towns.

I would be very interested to know how they went about jury selection for this case.

He wasn't tried in Listowel, he was tried in Tralee.

The jury panel that the 12 people are selected from is very large. People are summoned to it from a wide area (all over Kerry and perhaps surrounding counties as well?). The judge asks everybody from the area concerned and/or who knows either the victim or the defendant personally to excuse themselves (and not speaking up is a offense taken pretty seriously).

Wibbs

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Catholicism isn't fundamentalist; it doesn't rely on a literal interpretation of the Bible. "Love the sinner hate the sin" is presumably derived from the Jesus hanging out with prostitutes, tax collectors and so on, telling people not to stone an adulteress if they had committed a sin themselves etc. It's paraphrase.

true and a common mistake with church bashers.

At any rate, how was what the priest did wrong; it would have been better if he had offered the woman support as well but I fail to see how condoling someone in need is "wrong", regardless of what they have done.

His interview on TV3 was unusual to say the least. He didnt backtrack and stated that he thought an innocent man was in gaol tonight and also called the integrity of the witness into question. Now clearly he believes this to be true and I'm all for people standing up for such belief, but there's defo an imbalance and he couldnt claim he was even handed.

Lockstep

Wibbs wrote: »

His interview on TV3 was unusual to say the least. He didnt backtrack and stated that he thought an innocent man was in gaol tonight and also called the integrity of the witness into question. Now clearly he believes this to be true and I'm all for people standing up for such belief, but there's defo an imbalance and he couldnt claim he was even handed.

I'm not in Ireland so havn't seen any such thing; would it be on the TV3 website?

Larianne

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes this is sickening, but it is not surprising and it is not just the attitude in rural villages.
Ireland is rife with victim and slut shaming.
She was out drinking, no doubt dressed up for the night and was in a night club so ergo she was asking for "it".
Seems you need to be a young girl and a virgin or an old lady in your 70s for your attacker to be shunned.

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

pookie82 wrote: »

There's any manner of things at play here that we'll probably never hear about. Maybe the girl was very promiscuous around the village and this Danny guy was known as a quiet and friendly fella who did his neighbours good deeds and kept himself to himself in the public eye. Maybe there's a family history between the two or some unmentioned reason why people would assume she wanted some sort of revenge on him. All absolutely wild speculation obviously, and now irrelevant as the court has found him guilty.

What worries me most about the whole thing is the public display of unity with a convicted sex offender. Whatever their reasons, it puts out such a shockingly negative message to any girl (rural or otherwise but particularly living in that kind of setting) who might otherwise have brought a case against a man who assaulted her, in a judicial system where the odds are already stacked against you from the moment you report a sex crime. Surely if they had sympathies they could have shown them in private.

When I read this story I immediately thought of a college friend of mine. This happened a good few years back. She lives in a small enough rural town. She is a fun loving girl and was quite promiscuous. She was raped. The guy who raped her was also the town's mayor. But she was told by her father and her brother not to bring it to the attention of the police as it would shame the family. :eek: I still can't understand their reasoning not to go to the police.

So I think this type of stuff isn't a rare occurrence in this country which is very very sad.

the iceman come

I wonder where this piece of garbage will serve his sentence? I dont think the hugs he will get in prison will be quite as comforting as his narrow minded kinfolk,jesus only in Ireland,we have learned nothing. He is a sex offender pure and simple.

herya

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe, but maybe we're asking the wrong question there. I would be asking what is it about the victim that has people acting like this?

I honestly can't think of anything she could have done to deserve anything close such a treatment. Even if (and please note I'm not suggesting anything!) she was a well known local slapper who had pleasured many a lad behind said dumpster it wouldn't give him any right to drag her there unconscious when he felt like it. And the physical evidence/video footage/garda statements show it rather clearly - the judge didn't hesitate in the slightest exposing his layers of lies and damning him.


And if he was sentenced in Tralee, who arranged for the 50 men to travel there? It's not like they dropped there on their lunch break in their home town

hinault

This is an appalling story.

Someone convicted of that crime doesn't deserve applause.

Those people who supported that criminal by shaking his hand are cretins.

sam34

herya wrote: »

And if he was sentenced in Tralee, who arranged for the 50 men to travel there? It's not like they dropped there on their lunch break in their home town

as far as i know, his mother organised it

AudreyHepburn

This thing is turning into a total slagging free-for-all lets be clear that these 50 people don't represent ALL Listowel people or ALL Kerry people. They don't represent ALL men. The Priest involved doesn't represent THE ENTIRE Clergy.

Rape/Sexual Assualt can happen to anyone, anywhere and anyone can be responsible. It is not exclusive to rural places or to male perpatrators.

So please guys stop tarring everyone with the same brush because that doesn't hep anyone including the victim.

I for one can't believe that in this country some people are still so backwards they believe that if a young woman, like myself, is assualted or raped she must somehow be to bame.

It would certainly discourage me from coming forward if I were ever in that position.

It's been stressed in several places that the woman was sexually assaulted as opposed to raped. As if it matters. The point is Foley, in whatever way, attacked, injured and traumatised her in a brutal way and these 50 people are further injuring her and treating as though she were guilty party.

The fact that she had been drinking and met up with Foley during a night out has been brought up in some places. Again irrelevant. I'm the same age as the victim and like her I enjoy going out for a few drinks and a dance. I flirt with the odd guy too. What woman doesn't?

In no way does any of this excuse what Foley did to her.

You'd have to wonder about the Priest involved. If he is willing to protect and condone this sex offender who else might he be protecting? Fellow clergy? Or might he be hiding secrets of his own? I'm not accussing him of anything here by the way just making the point.

And as for the lay people involved I sincerely hope none of them ever end up on Jury Duty at a similar cae to this because we can guess where they're sympathies would lie.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Wibbs

herya wrote: »

I honestly can't think of anything she could have done to deserve anything close such a treatment. Even if (and please note I'm not suggesting anything!) she was a well known local slapper who had pleasured many a lad behind said dumpster it wouldn't give him any right to drag her there unconscious when he felt like it.

I agree 1000%. Lets say a woman is really putting out there to the degree that she gets constant attention and a "rep" from this, this may explain why some moron thinks he has some fcuked up right to assault her, it does not condone in any way the morons actions.

Take a less serious crime scenario. If I was regularly walking drunk through a "rough" area with wads of cash hanging out of my pockets and on occasion gave away said wads to random strangers, if someone robs me they're still a moronic thief and not the norm. End of.

Yes my behaviour may very well be unwise given morons exist, but said morons should still be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Plus I could just as easily be robbed not carrying wads of cash in that scenario, just like "good girls" are raped and assaulted as much if not more.

And if my behaviour is unwise, the law and society should protect the unwise. We've all been as daft as a brush in our lives. How I'm not dead from being thick is more luck than judgement TBH.

I dont care how drunk a woman or how much of a "slapper":rolleyes: she is, non consensual assault in such a case and the like is simply no excuse. If I see an unlocked door on a house, it does not follow that I burgle it. Its pretty damned black and white really.

asdasd

The US has something called a 1982 [i am open to correction on the exact term] which allows for a case to be heard somewhere else, to avoid corrupted or undue influence on the judge and the jury.

Since he was found guilty by people who would be mostly from Tralee and surrounding area ( mostly Kerry people, in other words) I dont see the point of this comment.

REgardless of the people from Listowel, just up the road culchies voted to convict. So, um, lets stop the culchie bashing shall we.

cyning

asdasd wrote: »

So, um, lets stop the culchie bashing shall we.

Yes please.... its a few people. Not all. Its about a girl who was assaulted. And the assaulter has been offered more support. Its very simple: its wrong. There is no two ways about it. Culchie bashing distracts from the victim don't you think???

The Sweeper

I think the biggest difference between rural and urban areas is that the sense of community is lesser in most urban areas, so the chances of 50 people lining up to shake your hand in court simply because you're a good bloke from their area is higher than it would be in a city case.

However, there is a flip side to this - rural communities are very tightly knit, and who knows the influence of Dan Foley's mother, or the past histories that have gone on between either him and the girl he has been convicted of attacking; or their families, or friends, or neighbours. It's that situation - that potential influence, or past history, or sense of community, that has prompted this bizarre public display.

But more than whether or not it is a rural or urban situation, the question is why the hell did officers of the court allow 50 people commiserate with the already convicted perpetrator in front of his victim? Why were they permitted to approach him? Did no one have the sense to call a halt to it and request that the parties move outside and suggest they commiserate with him at a later date?

As for the persistent defence of their actions in the media - someone's already nailed that one I think: they've dug themselves a hole, and all they can do in it is continue to dig.

Me, I hope the sides collapse and they bury themselves.

Wibbs

The Sweeper wrote: »

But more than whether or not it is a rural or urban situation, the question is why the hell did officers of the court allow 50 people commiserate with the already convicted perpetrator in front of his victim? Why were they permitted to approach him? Did no one have the sense to call a halt to it and request that the parties move outside and suggest they commiserate with him at a later date?

That's the bit like you I just can't fathom.

asdasd

The judge could have held them all in contempt. He was a tough enough judge too, by the sounds of it.

Silverfish

asdasd wrote: »

The judge could have held them all in contempt. He was a tough enough judge too, by the sounds of it.

He wasn't aware it had happened.

K-9

Silverfish wrote: »

He wasn't aware it had happened.

True, apparently it was before the judge entered the chamber. Don't know if the Guards could do anything really.

Silverfish

A group of 50 people, mainly men and said to be neighbours and friends, trooped into the courtroom and marched up to the accused, in single file. Each man shook his hand – some hugged him warmly, with tears in their eyes. It was witnessed by the 24-year-old victim who cut a lonely figure in the front seat of the public gallery. Dressed in black, she sat with a female garda, a counsellor from the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre and a friend.

All the well-wishers then seated themselves in the public gallery. Judge Donagh McDonagh, who had not seen what happened, emerged from his chambers a few minutes later.

From one of the articles.

LostinBlanch

A couple of points I heard on newstalk today.

1. If this was 30 or 40 years ago the victim would have been put in a magdalen laundry instead of getting her attacker convicted
2. Re the "show of support" for the convict. I think it was Mannix Flynn who said that if that had happened in front of the judge they would all have been up for contempt of court. Don't forget he was already convicted for two weeks at this stage. Yesterday was the sentencing hearing.
3. The Bishop of Kerry disassociated himself and his diocese with the actions of the acting parish priest. Apparently he's a retired priest from a diocese in the US and is only standing in for the local priest who is in hospital. The bishop also apologised to the victim and hoped that the priests actions don't mean that other victims don't get justice.

Wibbs

Silverfish wrote: »

He wasn't aware it had happened.

True but IMHO it was a serious breakdown in simple security and common bloody sense. Sadly that shocks me even less than I thought it would.

Klingon Hamlet

Why did they take a character reference at all? *SNIP* It was sexual assault*. I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life. Hope he gets a proper hiding in there. Maybe he'll get all the "action" he wanted, except he'll be on the receiving end.

This priest, saying the sentence was too harsh...words don't describe how I feel when I hear a priest trying to protect a rapist. Says alot about their attitudes towards rapists in and out of the clergy.

enry

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Why did they take a character reference at all? SNIP I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life. Hope he gets a proper hiding in there. Maybe he'll get all the "action" he wanted, except he'll be on the receiving end.

This priest, saying the sentence was too harsh...words don't describe how I feel when I hear a priest trying to protect a rapist. Says alot about their attitudes towards rapists in and out of the clergy.

i agree with what your saying but he has not been convicted of rape.

K-9

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Why did they take a character reference at all? The man is a sick rapist. I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life.

Fair point, does it matter what family he comes from, what connections they have? He did what he did, not rape btw though he did say he had sex with her at one stage, but he may have retracted that.

Sounds very like the 50-80's here to me!

Zulu

A significant % of the Profits from the Listowel races should be donated to the Rape Crisis Centre.

To my eyes, this is one of the only ways for the community, as a whole, to recover from their current mess. (And lets face it, while a sex offender, a priest & 50 people* don't necessarily make up a community, they can utterly destroy one)


*on another note, that sounds like the start of a joke!

efb

Really wish this was a bad Kerryman joke.

How are the family given such a carte blanche to make insinuations on TV?

There is something very unnerving about his gf

Zulu

His brother is on Newstalk now. How/Why are they getting so much air time?

"There was no clinical evidence". Eh, CCTV?!? Eye witness report from the Garda?!?

Fink Goddie

MissFlitworth wrote: »

I think he's a sh1t no doubt about it and deserves to go to jail, but I'm so uncomfortable with this thing of wishing rape on men in prison as some kind of fair punishment. Rape & sexual assault aren't funny.

F*ck him, he deserves everything he gets!!!

Maple

Fink Goddie, advocating ANY sort of sexual assault is just not on whether or not you perceive it to be justified.

Please refrain from making any more comments like this.

Maple.

Zulu

He deserves a criminal record.
He deserves 7 years with 2 suspended.
He deserves to be on the sex offender register for the rest of his life.

He does not deserve to be sexually assaulted - no one does.