Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Carawaystick

dowlingm wrote: »

Yes, it can, but why bother? It could be discontinued as a stop in one direction I suppose so that the rolling train could barrel on and the waiting train could set down/pick up.

D'y know, I have a feeling a train station on the wrc you can only depart from might actually increase usage of the station, getting train spotters to tick it off

5 a week should do

Thatsfootball

Probably been mentioned already but I believe that a greenway will ultimately be the result of the WRC. I live within walking distance of a long stretch of the closed area and there is alot of work to be done in terms of replacing tracks. It may be expensive for the greenway but I don't see the WRC being open in the near future unfortunately! There are some great views and scenery along the way so a tourist attraction greenway isn't out of the question.

what_traffic

Irish Times Editorial today:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0730/1224321093743.html
4th paragraph

"Equally, parts of the rail reservation should be turned into cycling and walking routes, following the highly-successful model of the Great Western Greenway between Westport and Achill."

westtip

It is fantastic news to see one of our daily national newspapers finally embracing this idea in its editorial - I think the idea is now entering about its seventh year as a viral campaign, with what has been written on the threads here, the Facebook campaign and the sligomayogreenway campaign this recognised support for the idea from editorial column of the Irish Times is indeed welcome. At long last! the penny may be dropping.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Indeed the announcement and hopefully the actual enactment of the M17/18 extension will make a big difference to Knock. Turning the WRC into a Greenway would also help Knock airport, although WOT see Charlestown station as an interconnector station for Knock Airport, of course what they fail to point out is the station is about 6km from the airport, that to have a meaningful rail connector to an airport a 20 minute frequency is needed and finally the new road and the fact that Knock airport is now a regular stop for buses on the N17 means the airport is now pretty well served for public transport and the new road will mean a bus from Knock airport to Galway will take about an hour.

Knock is the airport of the future for the west; I can't see Sligo surviving if they ever shine a torch on the cost of infrastructure in the west.
The idea that Knock would be served by a rail link is so daft that it defies belief. A westtip points out, an airport link would need a 15 to 20 minute frequency, which can never happen in the context of the population and passenger numbers. A bus can do the same job more efficiently and much more cheaply -- what is needed is an upgrade on the few bad sections of the N17.
The realistic future for the Athenry - Collooney rail link seems to be one of dereliction, followed by adverse possession of increasing chunks of the alignment until it is eventually effectively lost to public ownership. The credit for this will lie firmly with WOT and the inter-county railway committee; the alternative future of a greenway to preserve the route is one that is effectively being blocked by these groups.
There is probably little point in hoping that common sense will prevail in tis instance. The counties concerned are run by some of the most incompetent public representatives in the country -- they make Hall's Pictorial Weekly look like a documentary. This is "Ballymagash" politics, with an incredibly backward mentality rooted in hillbilly thinking of the worst kind.

L1011

Sligo Airport surviving what? It already has no flights. It, and Galway, are gone as commercial airports.

As goes 15-20 minute frequency for an airport link, while I don't think Knock will EVER justify one (there isn't anywhere to link Knock to!), it doesn't get enough flights for 15-20 minute frequencies.

Cardiff Airport, far bigger and about 2x busier, has an hourly rail link to the city.

Hotblack Desiato

Sligo airport doesn't compete with Knock. In the longer term the question is which one of Shannon and Knock do we want to survive. There isn't room for both.

yer man!

ninja900 wrote: »

Sligo airport doesn't compete with Knock. In the longer term the question is which one of Shannon and Knock do we want to survive. There isn't room for both.

Jesus I hope it's Shannon, way better airport, between two cities next to a fairly big town, on a motorway that leads to Galway, Limerick and thus to Dublin. Longer runway also and a coast guard base. Knock is planted in the middle of Mayo on a hill (can it even expand?) and has single carriageway connection. If the economy picks up again, there's no reason why both couldn't survive.

Our man in Havana

Knock should never have been opened in the first place.

westtip

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Knock should never have been opened in the first place.

Its there now, it has been expanded recently, it offers little more than shuttle services to the UK and is comparable to any of the small regional airports, in the context of the WRC, there is no relevance or need to even talk about a rail connector to Knock, simply not needed. What is needed - are good tourist attractions like the expansion of the greenway network to get more people flying into knock.

lotusm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Knock should never have been opened in the first place.

Will Knock is still there after Sligo and Galway have gone to the wall so it must be doing something right. Suppose 700k travellers anticipated to use it this year must have never heard of shannon... If the M20 is ever done between Cork and Shannon then shannon and more so Kerry airport have alot more to fear:cool:

westtip

lotusm wrote: »

Will Knock is still there after Sligo and Galway have gone to the wall so it must be doing something right. Suppose 700k travellers anticipated to use it this year must have never heard of shannon... If the M20 is ever done between Cork and Shannon then shannon and more so Kerry airport have alot more to fear:cool:

I think there is room for both airports in the west, for Knock the development of the N17 is key - to bring Galway closer in time, and indeed to make the Midlands more accessible, in addition the development of N17 north to Sligo will help. As said there is room for both, Knock is providing a great service for the West, North West and Midlands to our primary economic market the UK; the number of people commuting weekly for work through Knock from the west is pretty high and there are still huge connections to the UK: Family, friends, business that will keep Knock going. It is also critically important for West of Ireland tourism - whether it should have been built is now largely irrelevant, it is a very well managed business and is not going away!

yer man!

lotusm wrote: »

Will Knock is still there after Sligo and Galway have gone to the wall so it must be doing something right. Suppose 700k travellers anticipated to use it this year must have never heard of shannon... If the M20 is ever done between Cork and Shannon then shannon and more so Kerry airport have alot more to fear:cool:

Would the M20 not benefit Shannon more so than Knock....?

lotusm

yer man! wrote: »

Would the M20 not benefit Shannon more so than Knock....?

I think more traffic will go to Cork airport once the M20 is done

dowlingm

Knock is not closing while Enda is Taoiseach. End of.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

Knock is not closing while Enda is Taoiseach. End of.

One thing is for sure if Knock is closed, then the Western rail corridor certainly will never open! No Knock won't be closed and don't know how we got down this line of thought, because Enda or anyone else will not allow it; but as said before a greenway on the WRC would be big tourism benefit for Knock airport, and would certainly benefit Charlestown, Swinford and Kiltimagh a lot more than the WRC with the potential of 3 or 4 trains a day costing the state a fortune to keep on the rails.

yer man!

yer man! wrote: »

Jesus I hope it's Shannon, way better airport, between two cities next to a fairly big town, on a motorway that leads to Galway, Limerick and thus to Dublin. Longer runway also and a coast guard base. Knock is planted in the middle of Mayo on a hill (can it even expand?) and has single carriageway connection. If the economy picks up again, there's no reason why both couldn't survive.

Its not in the middle of Mayo. Mullingar residents are closer to Knock than the people of west Mayo. Knock airport is on the border of Sligo, Roscommon and Mayo. Knock will survive while the people of the West and North West use it(which they do in ever increasing numbers). Shannon is only open because the Government continue to bail it out, that won't continue forever. Knock is open because its commercially viable. Those are the facts.

If Knock ever did close(which is very unlikely) Dublin would be closer than Shannon for most of Knocks Clientele. The bigger question is which of Kerry, Cork or Shannon will close, as Munster has obviously too many airports.

There isn't a reason for any rail links to Knock, improve the bus times and bus links instead. Or spend the money on that terrible cart road the N5 in Roscommon or N17 in Sligo. A greenway extension to Knock via Charlestown and Tuam should be the priority for expanding on the success of the greenway in the west of the county.

yer man!

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a long way from the middle of Mayo. Its on the border of Sligo, Roscommon and Mayo. Knock will survive while the people of the West and North West use it. Shannon is only open because the Government keep bailing it out, that won't continue forever. Knock is open because its commercially viable. Those are the facts.

If Knock ever did close Dublin would be closer than Shannon for most of Knocks Clientele. The bigger question is which of Kerry, Cork or Shannon will close, as Munster has obviously too many airports.

Ya but Shannon is more accessible for Galway people and Clare people, if I can't fly out of Shannon then I'll chose Dublin. I can get to shannon by car in under an hour and if I was to fly from Dublin I'd take the express bus. I hate the road to knock and I don't like the airport. Knock caters for the North west, Shannon caters for west and south west basically. But this is getting off topic.....

yer man!

yer man! wrote: »

Ya but Shannon is more accessible for Galway people and Clare people, if I can't fly out of Shannon then I'll chose Dublin. I can get to shannon by car in under an hour and if I was to fly from Dublin I'd take the express bus. I hate the road to knock and I don't like the airport. Knock caters for the North west, Shannon caters for west and south west basically. But this is getting off topic.....

Tuam is only 40 minutes from Knock Airport, Knock caters for the West and North West. It may shock you to know that Galway isn't even half way up the coast of Ireland. People do actually live North of Galway city;).

If Knock could tie into the Greenway it would offer lots of potential to those German and and French tourists that already use the Greenway. Imagine safely cycling to and from the airport right out to the west coast. The WRC is just wasting money, maybe in 50 - 100 years time. There is already too many empty trains.

dubhthach

Deleted User wrote: »

Tuam is only 40 minutes from Knock Airport, Knock caters for the West and North West. It may shock you to know that Galway isn't even half way up the coast of Ireland. People do actually live North of Galway city;).

Given the go-ahead of the M17/M18 Tuam will have motorway/dual carriageway to Shannon airport by 2016. Gort to Tuam is 58km, at motorway speed limit you will do it about 29minutes. This would put Tuam itself just over an hour from Shannon Airport. Don't know about you but I'd prefer driving for an hour on Motorway then 40minutes on the goat-track that is the N17 north of Tuam.

dubhthach

dubhthach wrote: »

Given the go-ahead of the M17/M18 Tuam will have motorway/dual carriageway to Shannon airport by 2016. Gort to Tuam is 58km, at motorway speed limit you will do it about 29minutes. This would put Tuam itself just over an hour from Shannon Airport. Don't know about you but I'd prefer driving for an hour on Motorway then 40minutes on the goat-track that is the N17 north of Tuam.

At this stage I think everybody on Boards.ie knows your view on Knock Dubhthach and for some bizarre reason your love of all things Shannon, if knock airport was a mile away from you would not go there we get it,:rolleyes: Strange for somebody supposedly so knowledgeable on infrastructure to have such a grudge against a piece of self financing/supporting infrastructure. You obviously don't pay taxes or else are not concerned about how your taxes are spent.

You do realise im sure that the M18 will not be completed for 3 years(that's once its eventually started), the M17 to Sligo will likely follow within the next decade. But its becoming quite obvious you will have other reasons for people to not use Knock at that stage :rolleyes: Mod

If you wanted to continue this off topic conversation you should really have done it on the Infrastructure board.

yer man!

Story today on the Limerick - Galway line, 16% patronage.....

http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/3527/2012-33/Galway-Limerick-service-goes-off-the-rails

The Idyll Race

yer man! wrote: »

Story today on the Limerick - Galway line, 16% patronage.....

http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/3527/2012-33/Galway-Limerick-service-goes-off-the-rails[/QUOTE]

And Eamon O Cuiv explains exactly why:

However, Galway Deputy Eamon Ó Cuív blamed CIE for the poor
performance of the route, saying the success of certain elements of the route
could be extended if the transport company wanted the service to prosper.


“I remember getting leaflets dropped into my office about railway
services in Galway and the only one it didn’t mention was Galway to Limerick. In
all publicity about rail services, they never mention Galway-Limerick,” he
said.


“They are purposely treating it as an absolute second-class
citizen. It’s slow, it has the wrong times, they don’t have the frequency, they
are just providing a very poor service on it and then they wonder why the
passenger aren’t coming.”


The Fianna Fáil TD added that he believes there is a deliberate
attempt by CIE to stifle the service as they did not want to implement it in the
first place.


“I don’t think CIE were particularly enamoured with the line from
the first place, it was the Government that said to go ahead with the line. I
think that on a lot of these smaller lines, they’d rather not have the hassle.
You’d sometimes wonder are passengers on these lines seen by CIE as
being an unfortunate burden on them.”

gawker

“At present, an open return ticket from Galway to Limerick is priced at €32.50 (€22 day return) and averages two hours in duration. The equivalent journey on Bus Eireann’s Express route takes 1hr and 25mins and can be booked online for €20.90, while the private Citylink service takes 1hr 20mins with a web booking price of €19.80.”

That piece of the article says it all. There comes a point with these constant price increases where it eventually puts enough people off that the increase leads to less income. I’m pretty sure Irish Rail have gotten to that point by now. What is their selling point for this route? They take longer to get from one city to the other so why are they charging more than the competition?

Saying they are tight for money isn’t enough, the market still has its price tolerance and ignoring that is just ridiculous…

westtip

The Idyll Race wrote: »

yer man! wrote: »

Story today on the Limerick - Galway line, 16% patronage.....

http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/3527/2012-33/Galway-Limerick-service-goes-off-the-rails[/QUOTE]

And Eamon O Cuiv explains exactly why:

eamon o'cuiv's explanation is the usual old stuff rattled out by WOT, interesting to note BTW that WOT did not comment in the story, no doubt a vigorous press release will come out in the next few days. Its good to see a local regional paper carrying this story and saying it as it is - no railway line will fail because of lack of on line ticketing, re marketing - I thought WOT said the demand for this would be so phenomenonal it would be a success from day one - its not as if the people living in the catchment area for this line don't know its there - if they aren't aware they haven't opened a newspaper or listened to the local and national media for the past 10 years. How many adverts do you see on TV for the London Tube. Use the tube today - "its a great way of getting into London" if a service is needed - people use it. Irish Rail actually do quite a lot of above line TV advertising to encourage people to travel by train, thats about as much as rail advertising will ever get. Regards blaming local advertising for the line - will that is just poppycock. Pricing maybe is a problem - but that is a problem for all intercity rail services which as this article points out simply cannot compete with buses on motorways.

The supporters of this line are blaming the operators - ten trains a day on what effectively is a branch line, the operators can't be blamed - they can't provide a train every 20 minutes it simply would be stupid. The service levels they get now are about as good as it is ever going to get.

Now we are told by IE that the only "successful" bits of the WRC are the bits that pre-existed before the intecity link was put in. Well what a surprise!

When are the supporters of this white elephant finally going to admit, this was going to be a flop from day one - why because there simply never was and never will be adequate demand for the service. End of.

yer man!

westtip wrote: »

The Idyll Race wrote: »

eamon o'cuiv's explanation is the usual old stuff rattled out by WOT, interesting to note BTW that WOT did not comment in the story, no doubt a vigorous press release will come out in the next few days. Its good to see a local regional paper carrying this story and saying it as it is - no railway line will fail because of lack of on line ticketing, re marketing - I thought WOT said the demand for this would be so phenomenonal it would be a success from day one - its not as if the people living in the catchment area for this line don't know its there - if they aren't aware they haven't opened a newspaper or listened to the local and national media for the past 10 years. How many adverts do you see on TV for the London Tube. Use the tube today - "its a great way of getting into London" if a service is needed - people use it. Irish Rail actually do quite a lot of above line TV advertising to encourage people to travel by train, thats about as much as rail advertising will ever get. Regards blaming local advertising for the line - will that is just poppycock. Pricing maybe is a problem - but that is a problem for all intercity rail services which as this article points out simply cannot compete with buses on motorways.

The supporters of this line are blaming the operators - ten trains a day on what effectively is a branch line, the operators can't be blamed - they can't provide a train every 20 minutes it simply would be stupid. The service levels they get now are about as good as it is ever going to get.

Now we are told by IE that the only "successful" bits of the WRC are the bits that pre-existed before the intecity link was put in. Well what a surprise!

When are the supporters of this white elephant finally going to admit, this was going to be a flop from day one - why because there simply never was and never will be adequate demand for the service. End of.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying however I disagree with the fact all intercity lines cannot compete with buses. For me (a student) the galway dublin train is €20 return, i'd take that over the bus, I much prefer the train, it's also about the same duration if not a little bit faster. Anyone I talk to about the limerick train they all say the same thing, 1.too slow and 2.too expensive. the feasibility study said it needed to be faster to prosper, that advice was not heeded obviously. I think the money could have been better spent dual tracking Galway - Portarlington as much as possible.... but sure, it's built, they need to try make it work and make it attractive at least.....

The Idyll Race

westtip wrote: »

eamon o'cuiv's explanation is the usual old stuff rattled out by WOT, interesting to note BTW that WOT did not comment in the story, no doubt a vigorous press release will come out in the next few days. Its good to see a local regional paper carrying this story and saying it as it is - no railway line will fail because of lack of on line ticketing, re marketing - I thought WOT said the demand for this would be so phenomenonal it would be a success from day one - its not as if the people living in the catchment area for this line don't know its there - if they aren't aware they haven't opened a newspaper or listened to the local and national media for the past 10 years. How many adverts do you see on TV for the London Tube. Use the tube today - "its a great way of getting into London" if a service is needed - people use it. Irish Rail actually do quite a lot of above line TV advertising to encourage people to travel by train, thats about as much as rail advertising will ever get. Regards blaming local advertising for the line - will that is just poppycock. Pricing maybe is a problem - but that is a problem for all intercity rail services which as this article points out simply cannot compete with buses on motorways.

The supporters of this line are blaming the operators - ten trains a day on what effectively is a branch line, the operators can't be blamed - they can't provide a train every 20 minutes it simply would be stupid. The service levels they get now are about as good as it is ever going to get.

Now we are told by IE that the only "successful" bits of the WRC are the bits that pre-existed before the intecity link was put in. Well what a surprise!

When are the supporters of this white elephant finally going to admit, this was going to be a flop from day one - why because there simply never was and never will be adequate demand for the service. End of.

Actually, the Ennis - Athenry section, along with Limerick- Ballybrophy and Junction - Waterford should be closed or at best mothballed. It would prove the huge disconnect between what gets voted for and actual usage of the railway. As I pointed out in another thread, when Oliver Doyle of Irish Rail has a dig at the Limerick Galway service in the IRRS journal, it is blindingly obvious that CIE don't want this service and they are not shy at telling the official supporters' club that. O Cuiv is merely pointing out the obvious.

Retaining any railway service in the present climate has to be a case of "use it or lose it".

corktina

typical IE water-muddying, saying how the Athenry to Galway and Ennis to Limerick bits are doing... THEY WERE ALREADY THERE!

Very few passengers, (and almost none of them fare-paying) travel the re-opened section, what a scandalous waste of money (I might have said that before...)

The Idyll Race

corktina wrote: »

typical IE water-muddying, saying how the Athenry to Galway and Ennis to Limerick bits are doing... THEY WERE ALREADY THERE!

Very few passengers, (and almost none of them fare-paying) travel the re-opened section, what a scandalous waste of money (I might have said that before...)

The most scandalous waste of money has been the M3, which cost far in excess of Ennis - Athenry in rewarding landowners along the route, and continues to cost the taxpayer money in paying the operator the tolls that they do not recover from the non-existent users.

However the residents of Gort etc must have it impressed on them that if they do not use the railway it will close.

rainbowdash

corktina wrote: »

typical IE water-muddying, saying how the Athenry to Galway and Ennis to Limerick bits are doing... THEY WERE ALREADY THERE!

Very few passengers, (and almost none of them fare-paying) travel the re-opened section, what a scandalous waste of money (I might have said that before...)

Ennis - Limerick was NOT already there, there was no train between Ennis and Limerick for years. Its just as water-muddying to say Ennis-Limerick was always there, when it wasn't.

As for Athenry-Galway well it was there but I assume the frequencies have increased as a result of extra trains, which would give commuters more options, my question is - has Athenry-Galway seen increased loadings in the last few years? (Or even if loadings stayed the same that would be a success since most other lines have seen a reduction in services)

In the grand scheme of things running a train through from Galway to Limerick probably doesn't cost a huge amount more than Ennis-Limerick, Athenry-Galway and turning around all the time.

Having said that €20 return Limerick-Galway seems to be the correct price, not €32.50.