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Irish-born British?

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    #62
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    toomevara wrote: »
    I've got British and Irish passports, though born and educated in Ireland, never really liked the place, too clannish, too much hypocrisy and I left as soon as I could. I don't consider it home and could never live there. So i'd happily characterise myself as Irish born British. There are loads of us over here in the UK! I'm often called a west-brit by mates, something I consider a compliment....

    Toomevara - I'm intrigued. You don't like Ireland but are Modding on boards.ie. :confused: I am not attacking you as I have my own issues - born in Britain to Southern Unionist parents, grew up in the Republic but have always felt detached from the State. I still consider Ireland home and returned here to start a family in 2001. I now live in the same area where my forefathers settled in 1649/50 - say no more - and I only remain here now as my kids are very young and it wouldn't be fair to drag them away from their friends and relations. I have always felt a huge gulf between myself and the State (politics, religion, Irish language, GAA etc) and am regarding as English here and a 'Paddy' in England. I held an Irish passport until the Omagh bombing and since then a British one and will be sticking with it. Ireland will always be home but I would leave again in the morning if I could bring the kids with me. The politics, corruption and out-of-control law and order situation are the main factors which make me want to leave. Even if I did leave I would still suffer from my identity crisis and have to continue supporting the Munster and the Ireland rugby teams...:)


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    #63
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Toomevara - I'm intrigued. You don't like Ireland but are Modding on boards.ie. :confused: I am not attacking you as I have my own issues - born in Britain to Southern Unionist parents, grew up in the Republic but have always felt detached from the State. I still consider Ireland home and returned here to start a family in 2001. I now live in the same area where my forefathers settled in 1649/50 - say no more - and I only remain here now as my kids are very young and it wouldn't be fair to drag them away from their friends and relations. I have always felt a huge gulf between myself and the State (politics, religion, Irish language, GAA etc) and am regarding as English here and a 'Paddy' in England. I held an Irish passport until the Omagh bombing and since then a British one and will be sticking with it. Ireland will always be home but I would leave again in the morning if I could bring the kids with me. The politics, corruption and out-of-control law and order situation are the main factors which make me want to leave. Even if I did leave I would still suffer from my identity crisis and have to continue supporting the Munster and the Ireland rugby teams...:)

    Apologies judgement, my remarks were a little flippant and throwaway and consequently I've left myself open to misinterpretation. Like most Irish Exiles I have a complex emotional and intellectual relationship with/attachment to Ireland. When I say I don't like the 'place' I mean the way it functions, the way the place is run, the reasons for which you have enumerated far more eloquently than I could in your reply above.

    I often find the First World War analogy of Lions led by donkeys to be particularly apposite in relation to Ireland. My family live there as do some of the most wonderful folk I've ever met...but the cronyism, clientelism, naked corruption, amoral greed and complete lack of personal responsibility and probity on the part of large parts of the country's elite; religious, media political,business sphere all included, made it absolutely impossible for me to live there....this, I hasten to add, was a conclusion I arrived at long before the country's present travails and one which as a product of 70's Ireland I could see coming a mile away.....

    But having said all that "G'wan Munster"...dont tell 'em I said that on the rugby forum or there'll be yet another help desk thread lambasting me for being too pro-Munster!;)..as opposed to the usual ones accusing me of being a Leinster turn coat.


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    #64
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    getz wrote: »
    there is no mention of me being born in england,as far the passport is concerned ,the only place of birth is sale,no mention of england/scotland/wales and i would think its the same for northern ireland,but thats the part i am not so sure about ,maybe one of our northern threadies can tell us

    I think there may have been a difference between a citizen passport and a "complimentary" one;)


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    #65
    hivizman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭hivizman


    getz wrote: »
    there is no mention of me being born in england,as far the passport is concerned ,the only place of birth is sale,no mention of england/scotland/wales and i would think its the same for northern ireland,but thats the part i am not so sure about ,maybe one of our northern threadies can tell us

    Just to answer this point, my UK passport states my place of birth as "Belfast". There's no specific mention of "Northern Ireland" as part of the place of birth, though of course the passport states on the cover and at the top of the personal details page the full name of the country as "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".


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    #66
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    hivizman wrote: »
    Just to answer this point, my UK passport states my place of birth as "Belfast". There's no specific mention of "Northern Ireland" as part of the place of birth, though of course the passport states on the cover and at the top of the personal details page the full name of the country as "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
    That seems perfectly normal - NI is part of the UK

    Just on an aside in case anyone thinks William Joyce was hard done by - he had been a senior member of BUF British Union of Fascists. The British convicted and hanged John Amery who was involved in the British Feikorps with the Nazis (Brits who were recruited to fight for the Germans) and who was the son of Leo Amery A Government minister.


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    #67
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    who the fug wrote: »
    Can you please name them maifioso?
    Seen it on a documentary about the Mafia on Discovery a while ago. I know I'm super intelligent but I don't have a photographic memory. If your that interested find it yourself.
    must tell my nephew he is a Saudi my neices they be emirati, and let me uncle know he brought up a china girl

    you can tell me old fella he be English
    You can tell them whatever you want, I couldn't care less.


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    #68
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    McArmalite wrote: »
    Seen it on a documentary about the Mafia on Discovery a while ago. I know I'm super intelligent but I don't have a photographic memory. If your that interested find it yourself.

    If you bother to go back and check, you will find that the only ones deported were the ones who did not get American citizenship, (Lucky Luciano being the prime one)


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    #69
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    Judgement Day wrote: »

    I held an Irish passport until the Omagh bombing and since then a British one and will be sticking with it.
    So murders like the bombing of Dublin in 1974 by SAS/UVF and Bloody Sunday etc not to mention the illegal war and slaughter in Iraq - make you admire the british.
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Ireland will always be home but I would leave again in the morning if I could bring the kids with me. The politics, corruption and out-of-control law and order situation are the main factors which make me want to leave.
    toomevara wrote: »
    but the cronyism, clientelism, naked corruption, amoral greed and complete lack of personal responsibility and probity on the part of large parts of the country's elite; religious, media political,business sphere all included, made it absolutely impossible for me to live there

    Well I'd be the first in the world to say that their's a hell of a lot that annoys me with this country, but if you don't like political corruption etc then why live in britain ? :D Never hear of the MP's expences scandals, Northern Rock, RBS etc ?


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    #70
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    McArmalite wrote: »
    So murders like the bombing of Dublin in 1974 by SAS/UVF and Bloody Sunday etc not to mention the illegal war and slaughter in Iraq - make you admire the british.

    These events were wrong and should have been prosecuted .

    I would question what the Irish Born British contributed to the Iraq War or the legitimacy of Saddams Government.


    Never hear of the MP's expences scandals, Northern Rock, RBS etc ?

    Good Old McA - always reliable for a bit of bombast


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    #71
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    McArmalite wrote: »
    So murders like the bombing of Dublin in 1974 by SAS/UVF
    So has than been proven?


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    #72
    funnyname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭funnyname


    McArmalite bet you're great fun down the pub after a few pints.


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    #73
    McArmalite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭McArmalite


    funnyname wrote: »
    McArmalite bet you're great fun down the pub after a few pints.
    Well I have my moments that's for sure. As the UFC's motto states " Fighting solves everything " ;)


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    #74
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,024 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    McArmalite wrote: »
    annoys me with this country, but if you don't like political corruption etc then why live in britain ? :D Never hear of the MP's expences scandals, Northern Rock, RBS etc ?

    Unfortunately they taught the politicians here all about corruption before they left. What they didn't teach was that, once a politician was found out, he or she had to resign into oblivion, something that none of the crooks here ever did.

    I don't think that the UK banks went down due to corruption, whereas the ones here certainly did.

    And there are no expenses scandals here?:eek:


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    #75
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    we live in the British Isles and we speak English as our mother-tongue.

    Well, Robin Bury I presume, you may feel that you live in what British nationalists term the "British Isles", but that self-definition merely reflects your politics and specifically your transparent desire to separate Ireland from the rest of Europe and contextualise Ireland and the Irish people within a British nationalist political framework and agenda. It does not reflect, and never has reflected, the reality for the vast majority of the people of Ireland and indeed the government of Ireland is officially on record as rejecting that term. It is wholly representative of the Ireland which the British political agenda has attempted to create here since the Battle of Kinsale in 1602 - all Irish history before that must be pushed into this "British Isles" concept, a term which was first coined by the British imperialist John Dee in his 'Art of Navigation' 1577. The term "British Isles" can be dated no earlier than that.

    Feel free to establish a poll on Irish people's views of your "British Isles" term and whether they consider themselves to be living in it.


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    #76
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    as I have my own issues - born in Britain to Southern Unionist parents, grew up in the Republic but have always felt detached from the State.

    Protestant Irish here and let me tell you about issues...


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    #77
    TheCandystripes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭TheCandystripes


    im from derry(well parents are) and honestly the thought of me thinking myself as british is alien to me. im not even an irish nationalist it just would seem odd for me growing up to tell people my parents were brits.

    derry should definetly be part of the irish republic


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    #78
    TheCandystripes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭TheCandystripes


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Well, Robin Bury I presume, you may feel that you live in what British nationalists term the "British Isles", but that self-definition merely reflects your politics and specifically your transparent desire to separate Ireland from the rest of Europe and contextualise Ireland and the Irish people within a British nationalist political framework and agenda. It does not reflect, and never has reflected, the reality for the vast majority of the people of Ireland and indeed the government of Ireland is officially on record as rejecting that term. It is wholly representative of the Ireland which the British political agenda has attempted to create here since the Battle of Kinsale in 1602 - all Irish history before that must be pushed into this "British Isles" concept, a term which was first coined by the British imperialist John Dee in his 'Art of Navigation' 1577. The term "British Isles" can be dated no earlier than that.

    Feel free to establish a poll on Irish people's views of your "British Isles" term and whether they consider themselves to be living in it.

    Well said man.


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    #79
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Protestant Irish here and let me tell you about issues...

    LOL -that made me smile:)


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    #80
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    TheCandystripes wrote: »
    im from derry(well parents are) and honestly the thought of me thinking myself as british is alien to me. im not even an irish nationalist it just would seem odd for me growing up to tell people my parents were brits.

    derry should definetly be part of the irish republic
    Londonderry is part of the UK.


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    #81
    TheCandystripes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭TheCandystripes


    politically but culturally no.


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    #82
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    It is culturally. It goes back hundreds of years.


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    #83
    redorblack
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭redorblack


    The poor old Duke! what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.


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    #84
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    redorblack wrote: »
    The poor old Duke! what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.

    In fact, the Duke was quite a wit and was a supporter of Catholic Emancipation.

    That anecdote is very seasonal and I quite like it.

    I know its off topic but here were the mans thoughts on a Potato Famine in 1830 taken from the UCC website
    Politicians were well aware of the underlying causes though they did nothing to tackle them. For example, on 7 July 1830 the Duke of Wellington wrote:

    I confess that the annually recurring starvation in Ireland, for a period differing, according to the goodness or badness of the season, from one week to three months, gives me more uneasiness than any other evil existing in the United Kingdom.
    It is starvation, because it is the fact that, although there is an abundance of provisions in the country of a superior kind, and at a cheaper rate than the same can be bought in any other part of Her Majesty’s dominions, those who want in the midst of plenty cannot get, because they do not possess even the small sum of money necessary to buy a supply of food.

    It occurs every year, for that period of time that elapses between the final consumption of one year’s crop of potatoes, and the coming of the crop of the following year, and it is long or short, according as the previous season has been bad or good.

    Now when this misfortune occurs, there is no relief or mitigation, excepting a recourse to public money. The proprietors of the country, those who ought to think for the people, to foresee this misfortune, and to provide beforehand a remedy for it, are amusing themselves in the Clubs in London, in Cheltenham, or Bath, or on the Continent, and the Government are made responsible for the evil, and they must find the remedy for it where they can—anywhere excepting in the pockets of Irish Gentlemen.

    Then, if they give public money to provide a remedy for this distress, it is applied to all purposes excepting the one for which it is given; and more particularly to that one, viz. the payment of arrears of an exorbitant rent.

    However, we must expect that this evil will continue, and will increase as the population will increase, and the chances of a serious evil, such as the loss of a large number of persons by famine, will be greater in proportion to the numbers existing in Ireland in the state in which we know that the great body of the people are living at this moment. [Wellington to Northumberland, 7 July 1830, in Despatches, vii 111–2; repr. in P. S. O’Hegarty, A history of Ireland under the Union (London 1952) 291–2]


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    #85
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,024 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    It is culturally. It goes back hundreds of years.

    Not many hundreds, a mere blip in time.


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    #86
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Hopefully the 21st Century will be the century when the christian sect your ancestors belonged to becomes less and less relevant...


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    #87
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    CDfm wrote: »
    In fact, the Duke was quite a wit and was a supporter of Catholic Emancipation.


    Yes, and "Catholic Emancipation" was such an amazing victory for the Irish Catholics, as any of the 40 shilling freeholders could tell you when they were disenfranchised in this "victory".

    How selfless and noble, in the circumstances, of Arthur Wesley to support this charade of "emancipation". Mar dhea.


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    #88
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Protestant Irish here and let me tell you about issues...

    And would one of those "issues" be that your "Protestant Irish" are no longer ruling all the land in this country and keeping the majority of Ireland's population in an inferior position within their sectarian colonial state?

    Go on, please elaborate about your "issues" with the "native Irish".


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    #89
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Yes, and "Catholic Emancipation" was such an amazing victory for the Irish Catholics, as any of the 40 shilling freeholders could tell you when they were disenfranchised in this "victory".

    How selfless and noble, in the circumstances, of Arthur Wesley to support this charade of "emancipation". Mar dhea.

    I am not saying he was all sweetness and light - but it was a very conrtentuous issue. We often forget that there were restrictions on Jews being in parliment and if I am not mystaken presbyterians too.


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    #90
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    And would one of those "issues" be that your "Protestant Irish" are no longer ruling all the land in this country and keeping the majority of Ireland's population in an inferior position within their sectarian colonial state?

    Go on, please elaborate about your "issues" with the "native Irish".

    Did I say issues with the "native Irish"? No. You're off on your own back to the 19th century with that one. Look up some of those protestant patriots while you're there.

    I meant issues of personal identity.


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    #91
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,024 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Yes, and "Catholic Emancipation" was such an amazing victory for the Irish Catholics, as any of the 40 shilling freeholders could tell you when they were disenfranchised in this "victory".

    How selfless and noble, in the circumstances, of Arthur Wesley to support this charade of "emancipation". Mar dhea.

    Who's this chap?:confused:


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