Beasty's objectives for 2010

Beasty

This weeks stats:
196 km in 6hr 18m, at an average speed of 31.1 kph and average power of 232w

YTD totals:
3,576km in 123hr 17m, at an average speed of 29 kph

This puts me 233km ahead of target

I have been back on the bike a month since recovering from my broken wrist, and I am delighted with the progress I have made, with total distance of 1,057 km at an average speed of 28.8 kph, and including my first 3 competitive events in the Swords League.

The racing is helping improve my overall speed and power averages, although total distance is probably not as much as it would otherwise be, as I am typically cutting out a couple of commutes a week

I now have the TrainingPeaks software which allows much more detailed analysis of power records, and gives me a better understanding of my strengths and areas for improvement. Although I don't get much chance to look at the power records during a race, I can when training/commuting, and when reviewing the files (as can be seen from my previous post). I can now easily see how much of a difference using the drops can make, and how much harder it is leading or being on my own rather than being in the group. Hopefully this will allow me to be smarter with my power output, and in particular understand what I may have in reserve, and whether I have enough left to make a break from the group.

I am now starting to experiment with the stem length and angle to try and establish a comfortable more while aerodynamic position (the clip-on aero bars are already on order!)

Next week the Swords League is back to the Garristown circuit, where the first race took place a couple of weeks ago. There's an extra circuit this time, so hopefully the handicapper will be a bit more generous to us than last time. Having said that, there is a hill towards the end, at which I fully expect to be dropped again. If I don't fancy that, the Sundrive Track League also kicks off on Wednesday. I then plan a couple of extended commutes on Thursday and Friday.

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

The simple message which the racers amongst you already know is don’t lose touch! I was basically pumping out another 40w, while unable to close the gap. This was clearly unsustainable.

A bit of number crunching and understanding of critical power curves reveals the best strategy for getting back on.

Say the bunch is travelling at 38kph, you need 325W to do that solo, and they're 60m ahead of you.

To close that gap in 1 minute will take ~416W, which is easy peasy.

To close that gap in 2 minutes will take ~368W, which is also easy enough.

To close that gap in 5 minutes will take ~341W, which is quite difficult.

In other words, try and close as fast as possible to make maximum use of your anaerobic capacity. The longer you leave it the more energy you're wasting into the wind.

Obviously the above works if you get dropped due to lack of concentration or a short hill. If you get dropped because you're not fast enough to stay in the bunch on the flat, you're completely screwed whatever you decide to do.

Ryder

When its spelled out like that it makes perfect sense. In my very limited experience ive been dropped due to lack of concentration/laziness. Getting back on is okay.......ride a bit harder but not wanting to hurt myself i take my time, push hard, close slowly, get tired and frustated and eventually have to kick. In my last race, i got on just as the bunch surged again and spent the next 20mins paying the price.

Would make more sense to give everything as soon as youre dropped to get back to shelter

Beasty

I guess I was dropped at a critical time last week, just as the pace picked up after we were joined by Group 3, and at the end of a drag (when I had alreasdy unnecessarily allowed a bit of a gap to build up) and corner (which I admit I to taking slowly).

I should have tried to stay in the middle of the pack when Group 3 joined - allowing myself to drift to the back gave me no "headroom" to stay with the group - as soon as I was tailed off I pushed hard to try and get back on, but expended too much energy doing it. As you say, Lumen, I should have tried harder for a shorter time.

With hindsight, a better tactic once I was dropped may have been to wait for Group 4/scratch - as it was when they caught me I struggled to keep up with them as I had already been pushing it for a few minutes to get back to Group 3. The problem was I had no idea how far back they were at the time

Beasty

Race report here

I had no particular ambitions of doing anything spectacular in this race, particularly given the amount of climbing involved. The only chance I had was if our Group managed to stay away, but not enough riders were working to achieve that.

The main objective was to try and improve on my previous performance on this course a couple of weeks ago. I made some adjustments to the bike - I replaced the compact crankset with a 52/39, and the cassette was a 11-25. This gave me a sufficiently low gear for the climbing, but also allowed me to pick up pace on the downhills. Last week on the much flatter Bog of the Ring course I used a 12-23 cassette which was probably ideal for that particular course (I was concerned I might miss the 11 cog, but I really did not need it on a relatively flat course)

I was also looking to improve my aero position, so I used a longer stem (130mm versus 110mm), and also flipped it over so it was flat rather than inclined upwards. My main concern with this set-up was whether it would cause any back problems. I had tried it out on Sunday, when I found it quite comfortable on the drops, although it felt a little unusual on the hoods.

Anyway, I kept this set-up tonight, and think it went quite well - I felt my back a little after the race but felt fine during it. Hopefully it's simply a matter of getting used to it.

What I did find was that I was able to gain significant pace on the downhills, without even pedalling. Some of the others were continuing to pedal, and I was sweeping past them effortlessly.

My overall pace tonight was about the same as last time I did this course, but tonight there was an extra 12km, and I was on my own for a bit longer (perhaps another 5km or so). I probably also did a bit more work tonight, although my overall (normalised) power output was about 7% down on the last time (278w versus 298w), so I think this is progress.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

I was also looking to improve my aero position, so I used a longer stem (130mm versus 110mm), and also flipped it over so it was flat rather than inclined upwards. My main concern with this set-up was whether it would cause any back problems. I had tried it out on Sunday, when I found it quite comfortable on the drops, although it felt a little unusual on the hoods.

I had this set-up on the commute for the first time today. There was a tailwind to assist me on the way in this morning (of around 16 kph). I beat my best time for this route by 1 minute 50 seconds (my new "record" is exactly 39m for the commute. This was even faster than my best return journey (when I normally benefit from being warmed and fuelled up, as well as the prevailing winds)

My average speed was 34.4 kph, which was faster than last night's race - there was probably only about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the climbing last night, on a pro rata basis. Average power was 240w (normalised).

I clearly benefited from the tailwind, although I am surprised I had such a time in me given last night's endeavours

Clearly this new set-up provides a significant improvement, although the extended commute home did have me stretching the back, and the wrist was a bit sore. Hopefully they will settle down in time

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

I used a longer stem (130mm versus 110mm), and also flipped it over so it was flat rather than inclined upwards. My main concern with this set-up was whether it would cause any back problems.

Most conventional wisdom on bike fit suggests that a higher, shorter position causes less back pain, but this is not my experience.

As a fellow back pain sufferer, I think there's definitely something to the "more stretched out=less pain" idea.

My cyclocross bike has 2cm less reach than my race bike, and the handlebars are several cm higher, but I suffer much less from back pain on (and after using) the race bike than the cross bike.

In fact I've had back pain the last two days (not cycling) but this morning after a race I feel great. This is a common pattern.

I have two theories on this:

1. When you're stretched out it's harder to use your back to pedal.

2. The effect of pulling on the bars with a flatter back is to pull the spine lengthways which makes the bike act like a rack, relieving built up stress.

Beasty

Total distance this week 196km at 29 kph.

The week comprised the Swords League race on Wednesday, then commutes on Thursday and Friday, and was finished off with an hour tonight trying out the new clip-on aero bars

The northerly winds enabled me to record my two fastest home to work commutes since I started just under 3 years ago - on Friday I was matching my Thursday pace until a slow bus held me up for a couple of minutes! The return on Friday was a bit of a pain because of the head-wind - I did not feel particularly motivated to fight it following the earlier exertions during the week.

I did take the opportunity to do a lap of the "Corduff" course which is due to be used in the Swords League this week. We will be doing 2 laps on Wednesday, although I am not exactly sure of the course as there are some roadworks on the regular route. There is one longish climb on the course, followed by a fast descent. Total climbing is quite a bit less than the 2 courses I have done so far (around 300-350m or so, compared with 500m on the Bog of the Ring course, and 700m on the 3 laps of Garristown). I think if we can keep Group 2 ahead through this climb the second time round we have a chance of staying away. I feel strong enough to stay with this group, but if the faster groups catch us before this hill, I will probably be dropped (again!)

I picked up the new aero bars yesterday, and tried them out tonight. I'll give them another go on tomorrow's commute (my return route in particular is one where I think I will have plenty of opportunity to try them). First impressions are they are a lot more comfortable than I anticipated, and do allow me to relax my back. Initial downsides are the relative lack of control (I am a bit concerned over the potential consequences of unexpectedly hitting a pothole), and I am having to rearrange all the gadgetry on my handlebars and stem! Hopefully I'll get to use them in anger for the first time at the Swords 10m TT towards the end of this month.

YDT total now stands at 3,772km at an average speed of 29 kph. I am now 238km ahead of schedule.

Next week's plans are 3 commutes and the Swords League race, which should gain me another 50km or so on my 10,000km target.

Beasty

Race report - here

Stats
Distance 43km, average 36.4 kph
Average HR 162, max 180
Average cadence 81, pedalling 86
Average power 253w, pedalling 276w, normalised 289w
Max power 807
Peak power
10s 777w
30s 614w
1m 488w
10m 303w
30m 269w
60m 263w

Pretty much personal bests at each level (I have done a better 5 minute output than tonight when doing the hill climb a month ago)

During the race I was focussed only on normalised power - coming round to the hill for the second time I was averaging 270w on a normalised basis, but I knew I had averaged 298w at the Bog of the Ring a couple of weeks ago. This indicated I had something left and allowed me to push a bit harder up the first part of the hill. I lost touch a little during the second part but was able to close the gap significantly on the downward slope (before Group 3 caught me)

Overall I felt I still had something left in me at the end, although I am not sure I could have utilised it any better during the race. If Group 2 had managed to stay away, I suspect I would have had something in reserve, but Group 3 riders were always going to be a bit faster than me

In terms of the hill, first time round I did 2.6km in 6m 29s, average 24 kph, average power 330w, average HR 169
Second time 6m 57s, 22.2 kph, 314w, HR 169

Lumen

How are you seeing normalised power on the bike?

Where are your "pedalling" vs "not pedalling" stats coming from?

Have you bought a Saris Joule?

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

How are you seeing normalised power on the bike?

Where are your "pedalling" vs "not pedalling" stats coming from?

Have you bought a Saris Joule?

Saris Joule 2.0 it is

I needed something to sit alongside the Garmin, to even up the handlebars!

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

Saris Joule 2.0 it is

I needed something to sit alongside the Garmin, to even up the handlebars!

Wow, a Garmin and a Joule. I am humbled by your gadgetry.

edit: wait, are they both receiving the same signal from your powertap?

shaungil

I was under the assumption cyclists triedto reduce the weight on their bikes but it appears Beasty is like when Home had the car full of all the gadgets!!

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

edit: wait, are they both receiving the same signal from your powertap?

Yes - I get much better power analysis from the Joule, whereas some of the other stats (the GPS-based stuff) are more reliable on the Garmin

Beasty

So having admitted to making 2 basic errors in last night’s race, I have been trying to evaluate what difference they may have made (I emphasise may, as we will actually never know).

The first one was that I contributed to the break-up of Group 2. While the whole group was unlikely to stick together after the hill first time round, 6 of us effectively formed a break (with the remnants of Group 1 hanging onto us), and another group of 4 could never get back to us.

What difference could those 4 have made? Although 6 of us were in the break, there were probably 5 of us doing the vast majority of the work. Another 4 contributing would have upped our speed, but by how much?

On the downward slope after the hill, I don’t think a larger group would have gained much speed at all. I led a lot of the way down, and there was hardly any changing because of the speed we were doing already (45-55kph or so). On the first lap, up to the hill, we averaged 37.8 kph over 11.4 km, with around 20 contributing – my normalised power output was 267w. Second time we averaged 36.0 kph with 5 contributing – my normalised power output was 265w. So I think the additional 4 riders would have added no more than 1 kph over 11.4km, gaining us perhaps 30s. However we would have probably lost 10-20s waiting for them, so our net gain would be perhaps 10-20s. I am sure the group would have broken up again up the hill second time round, and there would have been no more benefit from a larger group.

Group 3 caught Group 2 with 5km or so to go. They had gained the handicap, which I think was around 4 minutes, over around 38 km. At this rate it would have taken them only another 2-3 km to catch Group 2, and hence I don’t think we would have stayed away, although we may have expended more energy trying. Overall, therefore, I suspect that error had little impact on the final result.

In terms of my second error, what may have been the difference of waiting until, say, the last 400m to attack? I did feel quite strong, and was averaging 57 kph for 200m or so when I hit the front. I then eased off when I realised how much further I had to go, and feel I could have pushed it a bit longer if really called for. Looking at the video of the finish, there were a couple of our group in the mix (well done lads), and although I would never have caught Staro, I think I may have been able to get into the points.

Beasty

OK, you're probably bored to death with my ramblings in this training log, so in a desperate attempt to make inroads into the hit-counts of ROK ON and Dirk, I've decided to add some pictures (well, OK, graphs).

The first ones I have included below are power distribution curves, covering the period since 31 March (when I returned to the bike after recovering from the broken wrist).

The first graph covers all the cycling cycling I have done, including races, totalling over 51 hours - because of the large sample size the graph is very smooth. It peaks at 170-180w, and tails off bewteen around 400 and 550w



The second graph shows the same information for the 5 Swords League races I have done (totalling just over 5 hours, and hence a much smaller sample than the first). This one is much flatter, peaking at 250-260w and tailing off between 550 and 700w, highlighting the additional effort put into the racing


Both graphs exclude the nil power details (ie freewheeling), as this would distort the image

More graphs will follow in due course ...

Lumen

Have you tried using GoldenCheetah's critical power graph?

For me that's much more useful than those power distribution curves.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Have you tried using GoldenCheetah's critical power graph?

For me that's much more useful than those power distribution curves.

I have WKO+ which has lots of graphs - the above was just a taster;)

But I also have GoldenCheetah, so the CP graph will also make an appearance or 2 in due course!

Beasty

Total distance this week 234km in 7hr 45m, average speed 30.2 kph, average power 220w.

The racing is picking up the overal speed. I am trying to take it easy when I commute on a Monday ahead of racing on a Wednesday. I then typically push it on the Thursday commute, and try and experiment a bit on the Friday one. This Friday I was trying out the aero bars again. So far they seem fine, and when I get round to my first time trial (either one of the Vets ones, or the Swords TT in a couple of weeks) they will be used in anger for the first time.

A short spin this evening took my YTD total over 4,000km - it now stands at 4,006 km at an average speed of 29.1 kph. I am now 307km ahead of target, although I am planning being away a couple of days next week, leaving me with probably the Swords race on Wednesday and a commute on Monday - I'm probably due a bit of a break as I have had no more than 2 consecutive days off the bike (including turbo) for a couple of months.

Now for the Critical Power graph from the Swords race on Wednesday - the black line shows the maximum power output from the race, showing that I hit PBs for 2 extended interval lengths - the range 6s - 70s and 7m - 1hr 15m (the length of the race)

Lumen

Beasty, your CP curve is interesting. Actual performance clings to the dotted line between 5 minutes and over an hour, which is testament to your TT potential and mental toughness but indicates some work needs to be done on <5 minute power (anaerobic capacity). If you can boost that up you might be uncatchable in a solo breakaway in the closing couple of km.

On my own curve, I hit the dotted line between about 2.5 minutes and 15 minutes which I think indicates I need to work on both my sprinting and threshold endurance.

Maybe try some 2 minute intervals and see if you can push that curve up.

Beasty

Thanks for those comments and suggestion Lumen

I guess what you say illustrates the type of cycling I have been doing for the past couple of years - basically 40m to 1hr solo efforts, commuting to and from work. But I have tended to try and push myself every time (trying to get PBs in the particular wind conditions whenever I can). I probably took a similar approach on the turbo (and definitely on the track - pushing as hard as I could for an hour at a time)

It was only when shaungil started dragging me along to the Swords winter training spins back in January/February that I encountered anything like formal training, and started doing a few intervals. It's certainly an area I have not focussed on at all, and perhaps need to think about it a bit more (tbh there are plenty of opportunities to try this out on my commute home, which typically includes 10km+ of hard shoulder on the old N1)

Beasty

Tonight's race report here

Critical power chart:


Power was pretty close to my best throughout the range up to 1hr. I think I would have done a bit better in the up to 30s range if the sprint at the finish had not been interrupted by a "near-crash" experience!

Distance 40.7km
Average speed - 37 kph, max 54.5 kph
Average power - 254w, pedalling 294w, normalised 284w
Maximum power 848w
Work - 1,003 kj
Average HR 168, max 183 (both of which are close to my maximum recorded for this length of ride)

As mentioned in the race report, this felt much easier than the other time I did this course (and was a lot slower!). I think I paced myself much better and unlike the first time did not do too much early on.

Beasty

Although I did the hill-climb at the start of the season, this Wednesday is likely to be my first flat TT, over 10m, a distance that should suit me.

What should my tactics be? My best power output over 30 mins is 269w. I have actually sustained this output over 42 minutes. Over 20 mins my best output is 288w. None of this was over a flat course, and I have sustained normalised power of 298w over an hour or so at the first Garristown race this year. Critical power drops from 293w to 285w between 20 and 30 minutes.

I am conscious of pushing it too hard to start off, and would like to try and keep a constant normalised power output of between 280w and 290w, certainly for the first few 5km or so, until we hit the old N1. The next 5km or so are slightly uphill, and on a route that is now regularly on my commute home. If I feel OK, I may try and push it up to around 300w to 320w for this stretch. The course then turns back on itself for the last 6km or so, and this is slightly downhill, where it I would hope to keep it around 300w, and perhaps a little higher if I have anything left over the last couple of km.

Now the problem – the route currently has a large hole in it, with traffic lights controlling the traffic. If that is still there on Wednesday, there is no way we will be able to hold the TT on that course. In this case, I have no idea what they will do, or when a decision will be made. I believe they used a different course last year, starting from the same place. However this included a large hill towards the end. The original proposal for this year would have had the same hill at the start. Either option would work against me, given the amount of climbing then required. In fact, if no decision is made by Tuesday, I will probably have to take alternative cassettes in case I need to make a last minute change.

To add to the complications, the vets are running a 20km TT on Tuesday. If it looks like the Swords one will be hilly, I may give the vets one a go as well. My concern however is that I am not sure how much the first one will take out of me. I feel I could manage a couple of efforts in a week, but at my age I probably need more than a day to recover. Anyway, I’ll only find out by trying, and I already have my excuse lined-up if it all goes horribly wrong;)

Lumen

Consider that the accuracy of the CP curve in GC depends on the accuracy of the short duration maximal power data you have fed into it.

This is because the shape of the curve is dependent on your AWC (anaerobic work component); you basically have a fixed anaerobic capacity which you can spread over an interval as you choose, but this boosts the avg power for shorter intervals more than for long ones.

If you don't have any high intensity short intervals recorded, GC will tend to overestimate your longer interval CP (CP30 and CP60 for instance).

So if you're using the GC CP curve for pacing, you might consider doing a couple of 2-3 min maximal efforts (properly warmed up) in the next day or two.

This might not be an issue since you have good data for 5 min intervals from your hill training sessions, but just a thought.

Beasty

I'm also looking at the normalised power I have produced at the races so far also, which ranges between 278w and 298w, typically over an hour or so. I am guessing that in a flat TT normalised and actual power will be quite similar (assuming reasonably consistent output, of course).

My plan, therefore, is to try to keep average normalised power just below 300w to start off with (I know I will be tempted to push it too hard to initially if I don't keep an eye on it - the first lap of last week's Swords race I was averaging 310w, which I was slightly concerned about, but it then drifted back below 300w, and I was feeling quite comfortable), and push for the last couple of km if I have anything left

PS - just ploughing my way through the new edition of Training and Racing with a Power Meter which arrived yesterday

Lumen

IMO, NP has no place in TT pacing, as it is not a good predictor of sustainable power.

I would say your best bet in the absence of stats from practice TTs is to use the CP curve for the expected duration, about 25 mins for a 10 miler. I read that as around 295W from your graph.

I have faded badly when attempting to exceed my target wattage by 20W, but perhaps 5W is neither here nor there.

Anyway, good luck with it!

Beasty

This was a quiet (and relaxing!) week. A trip to Manchester between Thursday and Friday cut out a couple of my regular commutes, and I decided I was probably due a bit of a rest anyway. Hence total distance was only 120km at an average speed of 30.4kph and average power of 227w.

I’ve tried the aero bars a few times now, in anticipation of the Swords League 10mTT on Wednesday. I did some intervals with them on Friday night, when I had three similar runs over 1.6km. The first one I did on the hoods, averaging 346w and 33.5kph. The second one, virtually all on the aero bars, was 316w and 33.8kph, and the third, again on the bars, was 311w and 34 kph. Hence it appears they are saving me over 30w compared with being on the hoods.

YTD total now stands at 4.126km at an average speed of 29.1kph, now 209km ahead of target.

Next week I plan a very easy commute on Monday – it’s a bit of an effort for me to keep the power down to recovery levels, but I’ll try to see how slow I can make it! Wednesday is the Swords TT, but as noted in one of my earlier posts, there must be a serious question over the proposed course due to roadworks. If it ends up being hilly, I may switch my main focus to the vets 20k TT the previous night. Hopefully I’ll finish the week off with another couple of harder commutes, which should allow me to regain some of the distance lost this week.

Lumen

Did you do the old gippers' TT last night?

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Did you do the old gippers' TT last night?

No -

official reason - saving myself for tonight

(unofficial reason - had the bike in the car, then the wife phoned and I had look after the 2 younger kids while she and the older ones went shopping!)

Looks like it may be even shorter than anticipated tonight (7.5m, rather than 10), so need to move myself back up that CP curve a bit. If we do the revised course, it's slightly downhill out, uphill back, with a strongish side-wind (which will be slightly more of a head-wind going out). Need to get the balance right, but still aiming to keep overall power near 300w if I can.

Noticed your tactics of breaking it down into smaller segments, and may give this a go, splitting it between outward (290-300w target), and inward (again 290-300w, but pushing harder towards the end when there'e more of an uphill - I've hit over 360w for 5 minutes (330w towards the end of a hard commute) and will see if I can keep it above 300w for the last couple of km)

There - I've said it now, tactics are out for the world to see and so will have to face up to the ridicule if I fail miserably:D

Beasty

Whoa!! very different - a lot of downhill involved (which definitely suits me, assuming I can get myself up the hill to the start:rolleyes:)

Headwind on the last bit, but I tend to do this road most nights on my commute, so have a pretty good idea what pace I can do, and effort involved:)