Swords Club League Race 4 - Garristown/Ardcath

Beasty · 05-05-2010 10:38pm #1

No idea who won, but I understand Staro took 3rd place.

Tonight’s Garristown race was over 43.9km. It comprises a roughly straight road for about 4km, then 3 x 12km loops then returning to Garristown (another 4km). It is quite hilly, and total climbing was around 500m

Group 2 had about 18 or so in it again, and we started 6 minutes after Group 1 (not sure how much advantage we had over Group 3). As usual, there were a large number who did not do any work. Some were struggling with the pace, and were dropped over the first couple of laps. Others were simply sitting there until the end. There were a handful of us doing a large proportion of the work, and a few others who were certainly doing their fair share.

We caught Group 1 about 2/3 of the way round the second lap, and were then caught by Group 3 just before the main hill (there were probably 8 or 9 of Group 2 left at that stage). This was not good news to me, and I was soon dropped, and on my own for a while. Group 4/scratch caught me about half way round the final lap, and again I hung on for a few minutes, but their pace was too hot for me. I did most of the last 8km or so alone, although I think there were still quite a few behind me, and a number of others had dropped out.

Stats
Time 1h 18m 59s
Average speed – 33.3 kph (34.5 kph until I was dropped)
Average Cadence – 84
Forgot HRM, so no HR data!
Power
Max – 772w
Average – 234w, 265w pedalling, 280w normalised
10s – 608w
30s – 497w (PB)
1m – 439w (PB)
10m – 267w
30m – 248w
60m – 239w

RobFowl · 05-05-2010 10:49pm

The winner was Michael Daly of Swords cc.

The scratch group (along with the 4th) just failed to catch the combined groups 1,2 and 3.

Flag waving tonight so was able to watch everyone else struggle :rolleyes:

kennyb3 · 06-05-2010 9:06am

RobFowl wrote: »

The winner was Michael Daly of Swords cc.

The scratch group (along with the 4th) just failed to catch the combined groups 1,2 and 3.

Flag waving to night so was able everyone else struggle :rolleyes:

RF, is last nights course shown here http://homepage.eircom.net/~mcnallyswordscc/League/SwordsRoutes.htm under different name or am i missing it?

Hungrycol · 06-05-2010 9:07am

Too busy in work to make it out in time last night :mad:

Beasty · 06-05-2010 9:52am

kennyb3 wrote: »

RF, is last nights course shown here http://homepage.eircom.net/~mcnallyswordscc/League/SwordsRoutes.htm under different name or am i missing it?

It's not on that webpage, but the mapmyride is here

Last night was 3 circuits of the "loop"

shaungil · 06-05-2010 10:38am

Semi scratch for me last night. A lot of bodies had been bumped up to group 3 for some reason and so was a huge group with plenty of strong riders.
About 8 in semi and we worked well togther although for some experieced riders not as smooth as it should be. I was on a warning to try and keep it smooth as I tend to horse though and found this happened a few times on hills (shouldn't really as I'm now tipping 16st) Scrttch caught us on first lap on long fast straight well before Ardcath. I was wary of this as it a hill and didn't know how I'd fare against riders A1 and A2 riders as well as a full timer home for a few days from the continent. The full timers hit the gas half way up the hill and I just grabbed the whell of an older scrach gut but ex international so I thought he was the place to be. However he was struggling (later pulled out with stomach cramps) so myself and a Wheelers guy made it over to the 6 in front.

I then decided to start testing myself and started doing plenty of stints including long hard ones at the front to see if I could handle the pace and then hang on. all went well but was wary coming to hill again. Full timer was about to pull the trigger and I heard ppssttt, he punctured happy days hung on fine well hung on and then lap 3. Tired form prevous lap sat on no work and hung on till finish realised coming to end of lap we weren't going to catch winners. Put in a few hards stints in last few km to make a workoutjust rolled home after going hard up the last hill.

Very happy to be able to match myself with the scratch guys and was told by one I'm working too hard. This is fine by me as it's training for me and I'm unlikely to win a race from that group as too many experienced guys.

Strong performaces from the boardsies and my winter training collegues with Staro third and another lad 5th. Used to hate that circuit but coming round to it. Corduff with Nags head next week and A4 race in Arklow on Saturday. Hopefully Star and Robfowl will go too.

Cadex · 06-05-2010 10:56am

Swords CC 'Garristown' 42k. Second race of the year - much better craic!
Met Andreas and hurried out to race (29k again), arriving late (he'd gone back for his number).

Dropped bag, joined Group 2 (thanks Joe) and were off. Didn't even get to get rid of saddle bag or any other 'spare' stuff. The start is down a hill and then three laps of circuit before climb back what seems a much longer hill. Got into the rhythm of the group and did my fair shar of the work over the laps (not everyone did - don't know was it because they were keeping it for later or 'just hanging on'). The group broke up a bit over the route and caught Group 1 about 2/3 around lap 2 with Group 3 catching us at climb around Ardcath. I was able to hang on for a good bit but at the top of the hill the extra power they brought speeded up the group and I went out the back, keeping them in sight for a good bit but unable to re-attach. Group 4 caught me up on 3rd lap on the straight before the turn to Ardcath and I manged to join on (the hill slowed the sprinters, maybe?). Once over the hill however, they drifted away from a few of us who more or less ended up each on our own. I spent a little while with a chap from Orwell, before passing him. I'd forgotten how hard and long that last hilly bit to the finish was and thought it was nearer than it was. At one point I speeded up because I could see a hi-vis in the distance only to find it was another cyclist out for a spin on his mountain bike. Made the line in a lot of pain and pretty much stuffed for air.

Apart from the state I was in at the end, this was brilliant. I really enjoyed being able to go with the group and was happy to do my share. Probably fair to say that some of those that worked less, lasted longer with the group - don't know. Anyway I was happy enough. If I was fitter/ faster I might have stayed on to come in with them. Having to rush out the 29k to get there was probably not the best help either!

Great night for it, roads not too bad and nice cycle home. Well done again to the organisers and marshalls. This racing lark makes a nice change from the long spins in the hills......

Didn't get to fully reset my computer so info like average might be dodgy - Stats:
Distance: 43.94k, Time: 1:16:36, Ave.: 34.5 k/h, Max: 82.6 k/h! (this definitely puzzles me, would be hard enough to achieve going down Wicklow Gap - might be due to some radio interference, no idea)

Beasty · 06-05-2010 11:26am

shaungil wrote: »

Used to hate that circuit but coming round to it.

Got to say, despite being tailed-off both times I have ridden it (and the potholes, which despite reports to the contrary, were still there) I do like this course, ane the variety it brings. I felt good the first time up Ardcath but could not keep touch with the Group 3s second time - that hill will either kill or cure me!

I was experimenting with a lower position last night, and found I needed less power output overall, although I think I was really pushing it about as hard as I could up the hill second time, but just couldn't hang on

Cadex wrote: »

Distance: 43.94k, Time: 1:16:36, Ave.: 34.5 k/h, Max: 82.6 k/h! (this definitely puzzles me, would be hard enough to achieve going down Wicklow Gap - might be due to some radio interference, no idea)

I recorded 64kph last night, and that was on the first downward stretch (I was up to 68kph or so two weeks ago)
We were in the same group, and I must have been dropped just before you (I was in the ketchup gear (Red Assos top, No 57!))

Hungrycol · 06-05-2010 11:30am

Cadex wrote: »

Perceived AVG: 82.6 k/h

Fixed that for you.

kennyb3 · 06-05-2010 11:34am

Beasty wrote: »

I felt good the first time up Ardcath but could not keep touch with the Group 3s second time - that hill will either kill or cure me!

Dont know that hill so just wondering what its like compared to the 5 roads hill and any idea of what sort of speed you were going up it?might go for a rec up it later

Cadex · 06-05-2010 11:49am

@ Beasty
Yeah whatever the max speed really was, it would have been down the hill at the start, probably around the same as you - still 80+ is a nice thought.... I'm sure I saw you, there were two guys in red or red and white that I saw. I was in Swords gear so less obvious, (long sleeve Swords top and long black tights, apart from that, I was riding a black Ridley Orion). I also had a change to my bike, lower saddle and higher handlebars ref Mr. Skeffington, felt OK.

Beasty · 06-05-2010 11:49am

kennyb3 wrote: »

Dont know that hill so just wondering what its like compared to the 5 roads hill and any idea of what sort of speed you were going up it?might go for a rec up it later

Will need to check the stats when I get home tonight - felt like I went up it faster first time round, but it was a lot harder second time and I was trying to keep up, so my speed may have been about the same

Haven't done the 5 Roads, but may try it on the way home tonight - it looks longer and not as steep on mapmyride (total ascent on the 5 Roads is just over 100m over 2.6km, average about 4%, on Ardcath there are 2 stretches of about 30-40m ascent each, with a break in the middle - total climbing distance is about 1.5km, average 5%+, but with some bits 10% or so)

English Bob · 06-05-2010 12:04pm

That final hill to finish just seemed to last forever!!
When group 3 caught us (I was in group 2) I tried to hang on for a bit but ended up not having the legs for it. Hanged back to see if anyothers from group 2 were close by but found I was on my own. Managed to gain on a couple of lone riders and worked with them to get round and was left for dead once the scratch guys spinned past! Managed to finish 3 laps and pleased to complete the full circuit even though I'm way behind the fitness of most riders. Thought roads were bad enough but calls were being given for whole way round.
I wasn't familiar with this circuit before last night but thought the variety of climbs was in a sadistic way enjoyable.
Looking forward to another 2 points next Weds!!

shaungil · 06-05-2010 12:09pm

The hill on it's own is fine, the road into it is awful, totally dead. Hi8ll is sheltered maybe half a mile long and gives some breaks in the middle. Goes around a corner and goes on for maybe 300 metres which makes it seem worse I think.
The problem for me is that I can't take it on my own terms. Some lad half my weight (well 8 &1/2 stone not wquite half) decides to have fun and attack to break the group up about half way up and you just fight to hold on for dear life.

TPMAC · 06-05-2010 12:11pm

Beasty wrote: »

No idea who won, but I understand Staro took 3rd place.

As usual, there were a large number who did not do any work. Some were struggling with the pace, and were dropped over the first couple of laps. Others were simply sitting there until the end. There were a handful of us doing a large proportion of the work, and a few others who were certainly doing their fair share.

Here's my 2 cents worth on the topic of scrubbers.

There's WAY too much reference on these weekly Swords boards (poetry!) regarding those lads that either don't work or can't work in various groups. Remember, a scrubber sits in & then attacks near the end. A scrubber is not someone who sits at the back from start to finish...and they certainly shouldn't be getting a hard time for doing so.

I rode semi-scratch last week, rode through every-time, but couldn't find a rythym with all the jumping off the front by 5 or 6 others and eventually blew my lights as a result...I don't blame the lads that didn't ride through but more so the lads that did, because it was so disjointed that every-time a new guy hit the front, he'd put the hammer down...these same lads were then nowhere to be seen on 2nd lap and at this point the scratch lads are on top of you and its game over.

So, last night I rode scratch with the intention of sitting in (and not contesting the sprint obviously

) just to get some speed into my legs.
As it transpired, I felt comfortable and didn't miss a turn. Point I'm making is, if lads want to or have to sit in and not do any turns then theres no point moaning about it. The only time its an issue is when the lad that sits on to a group for 3 laps jumps around the lads that carried him for the finish...that's bad form.

The goal for everyone should be to move up the groups over time. No point riding through consistently in a group that doesn't push your ability...in that instance, move your ass up a group. And if you move up, there's no harm sitting in until your comfortable to do more, whether that be on your first night or your last night of the season.

T

Beasty · 06-05-2010 12:19pm

TPMAC wrote: »

Here's my 2 cents worth on the topic of scrubbers.

There's WAY too much reference on these weekly Swords boards (poetry!) regarding those lads that either don't work or can't work in various groups.

To be clear, I was simply stating the facts, without any comment. If you look at all my posts on these races you will see it does not bother me one jot whether other people do their "fair" share or not - I am only interested in improving my own performance

TPMAC · 06-05-2010 12:27pm

Beasty wrote: »

To be clear, I was simply stating the facts, without any comment. If you look at all my posts on these races you will see it does not bother me one jot whether other people do their "fair" share or not - I am only interested in improving my own performance

Sure, that wasn't aimed at your specifically Beasty, just pulling the reference from your post as a lead in. Just trying to stand up for the lads that struggle and get abused for it!

English Bob · 06-05-2010 12:44pm

As one of the riders who does suffer but still tries to do a bit on the front I reckon keep the slagging going!! It's one reason I do try! It scares me to be named as a slacker and mekes me dig a little deeper and suffer a little more!! Anyway for me personally I am under no illusion that I am good enough yet to be able to hold the wheel of faster groups so I don't worry about being knackered at the final lap. Getting a great training session from these races as even though I love getting out for club spin on Saturday morning I don't think anything can prepare you for racing like racing itself.

Beasty · 06-05-2010 1:12pm

TPMAC wrote: »

Sure, that wasn't aimed at your specifically Beasty, just pulling the reference from your post as a lead in. Just trying to stand up for the lads that struggle and get abused for it!

Understand your point TPMAC. I am a complete racing novice, having just done the 3 Swords races (plus hill climb) this season, and so tactical awareness is certainly not one of my strengths.

However I thought the best plan for the weaker groups in these races is to try and stay away from the stronger groups, and hopefully get a victory amongst them. The best way of doing this is, I presume, to work together to try and up the overall speed a little.

There was (and is) little chance I will ever manage a win or place on a course like that, and as I have said I don't mind doing more than my share, as I feel it is making me stronger. However surely, for those who do have the strength and ability, it is in their own interests to help keep the group away, as they are then in a much better position to contest the finish (and ultimately will improve their own fitness).

I full accept that a number will struggle with the pace, and may simply be hanging on for dear life, and hence could not take turns, even if they wanted to

Again, neither approach bothers me, so long as I am getting something out of it myself (and so far I feel as if I have in every race I have participated in (and been dropped from))

Sorry if these posts are getting a bit too poetic, but I am studying for a creative writing diploma;)

Dave11 · 06-05-2010 1:50pm

I'm just jealous that you're all out there racing and all I get to do is read about it!! :mad:

Recovery after surgery is coming along nicely though and feeling good these days. Hope to get back on bike next week and then look at come back date for league...no rush cause don't want to risk doing anything else!! Plenty more races to go...

07Lapierre · 06-05-2010 1:54pm

English Bob wrote: »

As one of the riders who does suffer but still tries to do a bit on the front I reckon keep the slagging going!! It's one reason I do try! It scares me to be named as a slacker and mekes me dig a little deeper and suffer a little more!! Anyway for me personally I am under no illusion that I am good enough yet to be able to hold the wheel of faster groups so I don't worry about being knackered at the final lap. Getting a great training session from these races as even though I love getting out for club spin on Saturday morning I don't think anything can prepare you for racing like racing itself.

Have to agree with this...I too tried my best to contribute to the effort at the front. Blew up on the second lap and my race was over. But i enjoyed it and I like to think that my efforts at the front helped group 2 stay away from group 3 for as long as they did. I look forward to the day when i can hang in there and finish the race in the group ( a win would be nice too

)

TPMAC · 06-05-2010 2:22pm

Think my point is getting lost here!

I'll put it this way...for you lads busting your nuts to help the group...fair play. But your no good to the group if you aren't there for the finish, or at least the last lap.

So my suggestion would be...instead of riding through each time and not finishing, ride through every 2nd turn, or every 3rd turn, whatever works for you. That way you get the distance & speed into your legs and your evening isn't over before its begun. If you all say this is for training then that the way to benefit most.

Its a shame to come out for a 3 lap race and ride the last 2 on your own...your getting zero benefit from the league and might as well go train on your own.

You & your group will get more out of riding smart to the finish than riding hard to the first bend!

Hope that clarifies what I'm getting at.

tart · 06-05-2010 2:23pm

That was a great course last night, was in group 2 cann`t wait to get fit an kick some asses, held onto group 3 got over Ard cath by the skin of my teeth glanced at hearth rate quickly turned away it was on my Max, got dropped just before the sprint for finish the tank was empty. Thanks to Joe an Brida for lovely sweets at start and to all the marshals for looking after us.

TPMAC · 06-05-2010 2:55pm

Two crucial errors there Tart

1. glanced at heart rate monitor
2. lovely sweets at start

;-)

Hungrycol · 06-05-2010 2:58pm

TPMAC wrote: »

2. lovely sweets at start

They weren't "sweets". Unless you rode for Festina then they were commonly known as "sweets".

English Bob · 06-05-2010 3:03pm

I thought everyone rode in a more structured way in last nights race than maybe last weeks (feel I did anyway), and that hopefully as the league continues the group dynamics will take more shape and everyone will get a bit more fitter and will be able to take turns more frequently at the front.
Even though at one point I thought I took a wrong turn as I couldnt see any riders, knowing I was 'racing' made me try and turn the bloody pedals harder than if I was out just on my own!
Didn't take advantage of the sweets on offer last night, maybe that was my crucial error that lost me my first win!!!

shaungil · 06-05-2010 5:38pm

I've been doing this league on and off for 6 years and use it for fitness and learning. I'm not bothered about winning a race.
However simple fact is that there are scrubbers as I've seen them over the years and if that's what they want from a race then good for them. These are not guys who are struggling because they are not fit cos they can bridge and chase when they need too. I don't think it's a big deal to call a scrubber a scrubber. These races need groups to work together and I accept that I often knock the rythmn of a group by going thru too hard and it's something I work on. But when Scratch caught us last night it was not a thing of beauty either often lads sitting on or no-one coming through etc.
That being said last week was a mess in semi with a couple of lads attacking and then sitting on etc. Weirdly I find this stuff fun sometimes as going thru for an hour solid becomes boring.
If any of the lads I train with or other boardsies are scrubbing when we know they stronger it's noted and addressed as we all have a fair idea of who's capable of what. Slagging and having fun are a big part of cycling for me and while I wouldn't be too happy to be called a scrubber sand-bagger womble wheel sucker or anything but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm a big boy and must be prepared to take what I give out.

Now back to slagging off other;)

Raam · 06-05-2010 5:40pm

Shaungil, ya bleedin pansy. Quit yer moanin and ride yer bike

Beasty · 06-05-2010 8:56pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

Dont know that hill so just wondering what its like compared to the 5 roads hill and any idea of what sort of speed you were going up it?might go for a rec up it later

Did the 5 Roads/Nags head on the way home tonight, and compare and contrast as follows:

Ardcath
Incline, then short decline, then further incline
First incline – 1.0km, average slope 3%, maximum 5-6%
Second incline – 0.8km, average slope 4.6%, maximum 9%
Total – 86m climbing over 2.65km
First time round last night I did this in 5m 56s at average speed 27 kph and 300w (I was leading a lot of the way up)
Second time round 5m 40s at 28 kph and 299w (I was hanging on at the back)
Third time 7m 0s at 21.8 kph and 247w (I was all on my lonesome)

Nags Head
Quite a smooth and deceptive incline – it does not look as steep as it is on occasions
Total 2.3km with 107m climbing, average slope 4.2%, maximum 10%, but most of the way it is 4-5%. It did not feel as hard as Ardcath, but I wasn’t racing!
8m 0s at 17.3 kph and 253w

In both cases I had a tail wind of around 15 kph

kennyb3 · 06-05-2010 9:03pm

fair play and thanks for that beasty. was up it myself will have to get a look at ardcath at the weekend

biker_joe · 06-05-2010 10:12pm

ok am going to throw the cat in here ....

So is Cav the BIGGEST scrubber in the pro peloton cos the ONLY time he is ever seen on the front is crossing the line ???

he NEVER does a bleedin tap that lad !!!

Thoughts ....

Two types of riders doing the league

1) Those who will sell their granny for a win ? Or Srcub as some call it ... others would call it being clever, to win or get points ....

2) And those riders who do the league to develop and train for bigger things ?
and possilbly work their nuts off from the gun..... and maybe be smashed well before the finish line .... and don't place ....

Should both riders types be there .... definately yes in my opinion ....
one will always moan about the other ....

but should we all be moaning about rider types 1) and 2) ....
yea we should, cos at the end of the end we are cyclist and we MOAN about everything ....just keep an ear out at any start line .....
"eh I am not going well" ......

For me personally will usually ride as hard as I can .... I normally get thrown in sratch or -1 scratch regardless if I have even trained or not ...
MOAN ....moan .... moan

Biker Joe.

Swords Club League Race 4 - Garristown/Ardcath

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