Murder of Marlhill, New Inn (c.1940)

TheCowboy

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2015/0418/ireland/harry-gleeson-a-patsy-for-locals-with-a-secret-324650.html be interesting if some of the people who wrote "including one solicitor’s letter demanding to see the manuscript prior to publication" would come here and give their side of it

kfagan99

.... be interesting if some of the people who wrote "including one solicitor’s letter demanding to see the manuscript prior to publication" would come here and give their side of it - The Woodcock

Excellent idea. And those people might say upfront who they are and what their interest or connection is. My book The Framing of Harry Gleeson is out there with my name on it, and I'm very open to criticism or comment from people who don't hide behind pseudonyms, though for legal reasons I cannot engage with those who have sent solicitor's letters to the publisher Collins Press or myself. Kieran Fagan.

kfagan99

.... be interesting if some of the people who wrote "including one solicitor’s letter demanding to see the manuscript prior to publication" would come here and give their side of it - The Cowboy
(Here I'm correcting an earlier incorrect attribution).




Excellent idea. And those people might say upfront who they are and what their interest or connection is. My book The Framing of Harry Gleeson is out there with my name on it, and I'm very open to criticism or comment from people who don't hide behind pseudonyms, though for legal reasons I cannot engage with those who have sent solicitor's letters to the publisher Collins Press or myself. Kieran Fagan.

TheCowboy

kfagan99 wrote: »

.... be interesting if some of the people who wrote "including one solicitor’s letter demanding to see the manuscript prior to publication" would come here and give their side of it - The Cowboy
(Here I'm correcting an earlier incorrect attribution).




Excellent idea. And those people might say upfront who they are and what their interest or connection is. My book The Framing of Harry Gleeson is out there with my name on it, and I'm very open to criticism or comment from people who don't hide behind pseudonyms, though for legal reasons I cannot engage with those who have sent solicitor's letters to the publisher Collins Press or myself. Kieran Fagan.

This thread is not about your book and no one is obliged to identify themselves to make a comment on a news story which is what I did

Zaph

kfagan99, if I see one more plug for your book from you I will be sitebanning you.

Xenophile

TheCowboy wrote: »

Not everyone likes it http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-as-harry-gleeson-book-names-fathers-of-victims-illegitimate-children-31152712.html

TheCowboy wrote: »

This thread is not about your book and no one is obliged to identify themselves to make a comment on a news story which is what I did

May I ask you what is your interest in this case?

As regards your comment "Not everyone likes it"..................what would you expect from the relatives of those who were implicated in the wrongful hanging of an innocent man?

Dozer Dave

The Framing of Harry Gleeson is an excellent read, highly reommended.

TheCowboy

Xenophile wrote: »

May I ask you what is your interest in this case?

As regards your comment "Not everyone likes it"..................what would you expect from the relatives of those who were implicated in the wrongful hanging of an innocent man?

What is your interest in my interest? My comment is merely stating a fact which was in the newspaper

what would you expect from the relatives of those who were implicated in the wrongful hanging of an innocent man?

But it is not the relatives fault, HG being innocent does not mean the relatives are guilty. I have no connection to the case or the relatives of either side

johnconnors

I'm very sceptical about press reports of this nature. ''Uproar in New Inn, '' = ''Furious relatives,,'' and of course, the ever present, ''Local source''.

Surely, for all the dead to finally rest in peace, is not it better that the truth be revealed.
Just something else that to remember. ''The justice for Harry Gleeson committee'', since the very beginning had but one agenda--- The exoneration of Harry Gleeson. Uncovering the guilty parties was never part of their motivation. I went to school with the Delaney brother. Them and their families are close neighbours of mine. And no finer upright people will you meet in a day's travel. I hope their talents and energy is harnessed in another worthy cause.

Mention too must be made of former justice Alan Shatter. When presented with the new evidence etc, he did what no previous minister did--- gave it a fair hearing. Credit too to Derval McDonald of the Independent for putting her weight and expertise behind the project from an early stage. And lets not forget the late Bill O'Connor and Father Meehan , with the very much alive Eddie Dalton, who against the tide, believed that a terrible injustice had taken place and did what they could to rectify that. Marcus DeBurca and Cathal 'O'Shannon, who with book and documentary, raised it up to a national level. Carlos Grebler's fictional account came a long way to completing the story. Now, Keiran Fagan's excellent work, finally fulfills Harry Gleeson's final wish as relayed to Sean McBride---- ''That everything would become like an open book''

This thread has been active now for nearly six years. To read back on it is amazing. Little did I personally think that a day would ever come that an announcement would be made from the highest office in the land, for everyone to hear, that Harry Gleeson did not murder Mary McCarty and that his conviction and execution was a miscarriage of justice. The books have been written and the documentaries made. And newspapers will have their opinion pieces and occasional sensational headlines, and social media will have it's bit to say as well. But when all is done, that official statement of innocence and acknowledgement of wrongful conviction is all that is of imporance.

TheCowboy

I see Marcus Bourke's book is now selling for £356 on amazon. It must be out of print but it is not long ago i saw it in a bookshop

grey_so_what

TheCowboy wrote: »

I see Marcus Bourke's book is now selling for £356 on amazon. It must be out of print but it is not long ago i saw it in a bookshop

The book can be ordered by stated in a previous thread from a bookshop in Thurles.

TheCowboy

grey_so_what wrote: »

The book can be ordered by stated in a previous thread from a bookshop in Thurles.

Didn't know that. i have it anyway just was amazed at the price on amazon

grey_so_what

TheCowboy wrote: »

Didn't know that. i have it anyway just was amazed at the price on amazon

They are lovely to deal with. Just ring them up and they will order it for you.

It's a very good book.

It was hard to come by but I'm glad you have it.

mikeymouse

Johnconnors,

Surely, for all the dead to finally rest in peace, is not it better that the truth be revealed.

Indeed,
Moll Carty did not deserve her fate either.
let the real culprit(s) be known
and let her rest in peace now as well.

Xenophile

Just for the record, Alan Shatter, the then Minister for Justice announced in Dec 2013, that New Inn Garda Station was to be closed along with many other rural Garda Stations. No inference is to be drawn from this fact!

TheCowboy

Was on tipp FM now. Some in new. Inn not happy with conclusion

TheCowboy

Does anyone have a recording of Mystery at Marlhill? Or of the TG4 documentary about this case

kfagan99

FURET wrote: »

Please make it available in Kindle format. It's 2015.

Is available in e-book format now, I've just been told. Kieran Fagan

TheCowboy

in murder at marlhill marcus bourke says there were two shots fied in quick succession the evening before and the morning she was found. that is four shots.

but it is accepted she was shot twice and at two different places. so why were the shots in quick succession if they were the shots that killed her?

did the killer fire once into the air and once at her on the evening and again in the morning? if not what were the two spare shots

i also find it hard to believe that someone connected to IRA and familiar with guns would plan the killing so carefully to set up HG and yet expose themselves with 4 loud shots that could be heard all round

Was it possible to silence a shotgun then ?
is it possible the shots were not connected at all and if not what were they?

The Woodcock

I am pleased to announce that the Cashel branch of Amnesty International are hosting a public event on the Harry Gleeson case. We are doing so for a number of reasons; to mark the granting of the pardon and the acknowledge the work of the Justice for Harry Gleeson group, but also to look at Sean MacBride's role in the case and the impact it had upon his later human rights work with Amnesty International.

Kevin Gleeson, a relative of Harry Gleeson and a member of the Justice for Harry Gleeson Group, will speak on the night, along with Kieran Fagan, author of The Framing of Harry Gleeson.

The date is Thursday May 28th, the time 8 p.m. and the venue is Room 3, Spafield Family Resource Centre, Old Road, Cashel.

Admission is free and all are welcome. Anyone who wants further details can contact me via private message.

Regards
Conor Ryan
Co-ordinator
Cashel branch
Amnesty International

Johnboy1951

We are doing so for a number of reasons; to mark the granting of the pardon and the acknowledge the work of the Justice for Harry Gleeson group, but also to look at Sean MacBride's role in the case and the impact it had upon his later human rights work with Amnesty International.

I was very surprised not to read anything in K. Fagan's book questioning the role of McBride in the conviction of Gleeson.

If I were in Gleeson's place I would not have been happy at all with the performance of the legal team.

This aspect has long bothered me.

FARADAYCAGED

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I was very surprised not to read anything in K. Fagan's book questioning the role of McBride in the conviction of Gleeson.

If I were in Gleeson's place I would not have been happy at all with the performance of the legal team.

This aspect has long bothered me.

There is some questioning of mcbrides role. Page 220

Johnboy1951

FARADAYCAGED wrote: »

There is some questioning of mcbrides role. Page 220

I stand corrected ... but it is late in the book and not at all developed.

Maybe due to the way I read the book ..... over several reading sessions ..... I came away rather disappointed in it.

I will need to read it again I think, hopefully at one sitting.

FARADAYCAGED

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I stand corrected ... but it is late in the book and not at all developed.

Agreed. it seems to be a theory of what might have happened. there was also a problem that Mcbride could not call Mrs Ceaser because of her advice to Harry page 186 "When Gleeson got back...

Maybe due to the way I read the book ..... over several reading sessions ..... I came away rather disappointed in it.

Me too not much new in it. The people named were named by Marcus Bourke in a TV documentary already

geriatric

HelenV wrote: »

Hi Brian Og,
Harry Gleeson was my Grandmother's brother. My Dad is supposed to be the young lad in the book standing beside Harry. It is lovely for me to see you taking an interest in the case as Harry Gleeson's last wish was that one day his name would be cleared. Keep up the good work.
HelenV.

Hi Helen

My daughter is researching the Harry Gleeson case as part of her History Leaving Cert project and would love to meet with somebody connected to Harry's family.

Would you recommend anybody or are you available to share your knowledge?

Thanks

Gerry

ppn

The Woodcock wrote: »

I believe there was a memorial notice for Moll Carthy published in the Irish Independent last week on the 73rd anniversary of her death. It was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson.

This was followed by an article from Jim Cusack in the Sunday Independent (below). The two main points of interest for me from the article are (i) three of Moll Carthy's children are still alive but can't be traced (ii) someone gives a very different perspective on the role of Sean MacBride in the defence of Gleeson.

---

Shatter orders case review 73 years after man hanged

IN MEMORIAM: The notice from the 'Irish Independent'
JIM CUSACK – 24 NOVEMBER 2013

THE first in memoriam notice for the unmarried mother of six whose murder in 1940 is still the cause of controversy in Co Tipperary appeared last week.


The notice in the Irish Independent was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson, whose conviction for murder and hanging is currently being reviewed by a senior counsel on behalf of Justice Minister Alan Shatter, who has ordered a review of the case.

Bernadette Gorman, whose father Billy was a close friend of Harry Gleeson, believes along with others that there was a conspiracy involving the State, gardai and the IRA men whom, she believes, murdered Mary 'Moll' McCarthy in November 1940.

Until last week the anniversary of Ms McCarthy's murder had gone unmarked, though her death and the execution of Harry Gleeson has been the cause of frequent revisiting. Ms Gorman hopes the death notice will spark wider interest in the case and come to the notice of the remaining children or grandchildren of Ms McCarthy.

Her children would need to give "locus standi" consent for any re-examination of the case by the courts.

Ms McCarthy was killed in November 1940 when she was shot in the face with a shotgun. No image of her alive has been found. She reputedly had six children by six different local men and raised her family with money paid by the fathers of her children, according to local legend.

Ms Gorman, among others, believes that she was murdered by the father of her last child – who died in infancy – to cover up the parenthood.

The State case was that Harry Gleeson made Ms McCarthy pregnant then killed her because she threatened to expose his paternity. It was argued that Gleeson's aunt and uncle, whose farm he hoped to inherit, would remove him from their will.

Ms Gorman said her father was in business with Harry Gleeson and at the time Ms McCarthy became pregnant, her father and Gleeson were working "day and night" with each other at their harvesting business. They had invested in modern threshing and binding machinery and were extremely busy at the time, she said. Mr Gleeson's aunt and uncle's farm, where he was living, was beside the cottage where Ms McCarthy lived. Mr Gleeson found her body but denied her murder right up to the moment of his execution.

Her father was not called as a witness and was present in court when the death sentence was handed down.

"That lived with him for the rest of his life," she said.

She also said that her father described Sean MacBride, defence counsel for Mr Gleeson as "a Judas".

Mr MacBride was chief of staff of the IRA until 1936 and suspicions remain that he failed to mount an adequate defence in order to protect the local IRA unit who, some believe, murdered McCarthy.

Suspicions remain that Ms McCarthy had been made pregnant by a leading IRA man and that he and three others murdered her to cover up his parternity.

Ms McCarthy, who was said to have made no secret of having had her children all by different fathers, was the subject of vilification and was reputedly denounced by a local priest as the "Devil's disciple".

Following petitioning by people who believe there was a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice, Mr Shatter ordered that the case be reviewed by senior counsel with the prospect of the case being returned to the courts for review.

The murder at Marlhill, New Inn, Tipperary, was the subject of the book Thou Shalt not Kill by the RTE journalist Cathal O'Shannon in 1995.

O'Shannon believed there had been a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice.

A group of academics and interested parties have continued campaigning for the re-opening of the case and appealed to Mr Shatter last year, leading to the review of the case.

Sunday Independent

Very well informed post

ppn

He didn't go near the body or the dog as he had dogs with him.

banoffe2

Such a sad story of corruption and deceit, any account of the McCarthy children apart from the girl that is rip who said on her death bed that Moll was shot in the kitchen, can't begin to imagine the train of destruction and sadness that this must have caused them throughout their lives.

chooseusername

http://tippfm.com/news/crime-legal/efforts-locate-remains-harry-gleeson-halted/

It's unlikely his remains will be found now.
Sad ending for an innocent man.