Murder of Marlhill, New Inn (c.1940)

The Woodcock

I was delighted to read about these new developments in the case. I wasn't aware that there was a group still actively campaigning to clear Harry Gleeson's name but it is apparent from today's reports that they have been working quietly and diligently behind the scenes to seek justice. I sincerely hope that his final wishes can be granted and that his name will be cleared. Perhaps even there is a possibility that his remains will be brought back to Tipperary to be re-interred.

I suppose it is important in all of this not to forget Moll Carthy who was so brutally murdered and her children who were left as orphans.

Looking forward to reading the forthcoming book on this case.

Lawstudent007

The Woodcock wrote: »

I was delighted to read about these new developments in the case. I wasn't aware that there was a group still actively campaigning to clear Harry Gleeson's name but it is apparent from today's reports that they have been working quietly and diligently behind the scenes to seek justice. I sincerely hope that his final wishes can be granted and that his name will be cleared. Perhaps even there is a possibility that his remains will be brought back to Tipperary to be re-interred.

I suppose it is important in all of this not to forget Moll Carthy who was so brutally murdered and her children who were left as orphans.

Looking forward to reading the forthcoming book on this case.

Im affraid It won't be possible to bring Mr. Gleeson's remains back to Tipp as he is buried within Mountjoy Prison grounds. The area where he is buried has been covered in tarmac. I am lead to believe that he was buried with other prisoners and the exact location of his body is unknown.

HelenV

Lawstudent007 wrote: »

Im affraid It won't be possible to bring Mr. Gleeson's remains back to Tipp as he is buried within Mountjoy Prison grounds. The area where he is buried has been covered in tarmac. I am lead to believe that he was buried with other prisoners and the exact location of his body is unknown.

Well all the man really wanted was that his name would be cleared and hopefully that day is not too far away.

Surely Mountjoy Prison would have kept some record of the area where he was buried and if he is eventually pardoned DNA tests could be carried out within a certain area. Then again probably not, this is Ireland.

Area any names etc. marked at the burial area?

parkhursttree

Does anybody know what this new evidence is?

The Woodcock

A lot of the evidence is not actually new, some of the facts have been known since the trial. The Irish Independent article last week gave a summary of the four new pieces of evidence. An important fact to bear in mind is that the state's case against Harry Gleeson rested on the fact that Moll Carthy was killed on Wednesday evening rather than Thursday morning.

1. Body temperature: the records show that Moll Carthy's body temperature, when taken shortly after her body was found, was 97 degrees. If she had been killed on Wednesday evening, her body temperature would have been much lower.

2. Gunshots were heard in the area on Wednesday evening and the state alleged that Gleeson had fired these shots and they were the shots that killed Moll. However, a farm labourer who worked with Gleeson, Tommy Reid, said that he heard these shots while both he and Gleeson were in the milking parlour. In effect, Tommy Reid provided an alibi for Gleeson. But this evidence was never presented at the time. Tommy Reid was taken into New Inn Garda station in the days after the murder and roughed up. Also, Mrs Cesear told both Reid and Gleeson to say nothing to the police. Marcus Bourke goes into this matter in detail in the final chapter of his book. He interviewed Tommy Reid while researching the book and it was only then that this revelation emerged. I believe there is a recording of Tommy Reid providing Gleeson with an alibi.

3. On her deathbed, one of Moll Carthy's daughters confided to a nurse that she had witnessed her mother being killed on their kitchen floor. This is a particularly shocking revelation. The nurse has provided a sworn affidavit to this effect.

4. The firearms register from Feehan's shop in Cashel was used to make a case that Gleeson had access to the type of cartridges that killed Moll. But the register was not presented in court and it is clear that the register was actually doctored to implicate Gleeson. The relevant page from the register is reproduced in Marcus Bourke's book.

parkhursttree

Thank you.

alyssum

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Good to hear it is nearing release!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/a-murder-a-hanging-and-a-pardon-72-years-too-late-29563249.html

mother of seven illegitimate children at 2 mins. Didn't think you could say that now

alyssum

Amtmann wrote: »

I can tell you that a documentary a few years ago named one of her relatives as a probable member of this gang of three.

what documentary, was it thou shalt not kill?

The Woodcock

I believe there was a memorial notice for Moll Carthy published in the Irish Independent last week on the 73rd anniversary of her death. It was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson.

This was followed by an article from Jim Cusack in the Sunday Independent (below). The two main points of interest for me from the article are (i) three of Moll Carthy's children are still alive but can't be traced (ii) someone gives a very different perspective on the role of Sean MacBride in the defence of Gleeson.

---

Shatter orders case review 73 years after man hanged

IN MEMORIAM: The notice from the 'Irish Independent'
JIM CUSACK – 24 NOVEMBER 2013

THE first in memoriam notice for the unmarried mother of six whose murder in 1940 is still the cause of controversy in Co Tipperary appeared last week.


The notice in the Irish Independent was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson, whose conviction for murder and hanging is currently being reviewed by a senior counsel on behalf of Justice Minister Alan Shatter, who has ordered a review of the case.

Bernadette Gorman, whose father Billy was a close friend of Harry Gleeson, believes along with others that there was a conspiracy involving the State, gardai and the IRA men whom, she believes, murdered Mary 'Moll' McCarthy in November 1940.

Until last week the anniversary of Ms McCarthy's murder had gone unmarked, though her death and the execution of Harry Gleeson has been the cause of frequent revisiting. Ms Gorman hopes the death notice will spark wider interest in the case and come to the notice of the remaining children or grandchildren of Ms McCarthy.

Her children would need to give "locus standi" consent for any re-examination of the case by the courts.

Ms McCarthy was killed in November 1940 when she was shot in the face with a shotgun. No image of her alive has been found. She reputedly had six children by six different local men and raised her family with money paid by the fathers of her children, according to local legend.

Ms Gorman, among others, believes that she was murdered by the father of her last child – who died in infancy – to cover up the parenthood.

The State case was that Harry Gleeson made Ms McCarthy pregnant then killed her because she threatened to expose his paternity. It was argued that Gleeson's aunt and uncle, whose farm he hoped to inherit, would remove him from their will.

Ms Gorman said her father was in business with Harry Gleeson and at the time Ms McCarthy became pregnant, her father and Gleeson were working "day and night" with each other at their harvesting business. They had invested in modern threshing and binding machinery and were extremely busy at the time, she said. Mr Gleeson's aunt and uncle's farm, where he was living, was beside the cottage where Ms McCarthy lived. Mr Gleeson found her body but denied her murder right up to the moment of his execution.

Her father was not called as a witness and was present in court when the death sentence was handed down.

"That lived with him for the rest of his life," she said.

She also said that her father described Sean MacBride, defence counsel for Mr Gleeson as "a Judas".

Mr MacBride was chief of staff of the IRA until 1936 and suspicions remain that he failed to mount an adequate defence in order to protect the local IRA unit who, some believe, murdered McCarthy.

Suspicions remain that Ms McCarthy had been made pregnant by a leading IRA man and that he and three others murdered her to cover up his parternity.

Ms McCarthy, who was said to have made no secret of having had her children all by different fathers, was the subject of vilification and was reputedly denounced by a local priest as the "Devil's disciple".

Following petitioning by people who believe there was a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice, Mr Shatter ordered that the case be reviewed by senior counsel with the prospect of the case being returned to the courts for review.

The murder at Marlhill, New Inn, Tipperary, was the subject of the book Thou Shalt not Kill by the RTE journalist Cathal O'Shannon in 1995.

O'Shannon believed there had been a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice.

A group of academics and interested parties have continued campaigning for the re-opening of the case and appealed to Mr Shatter last year, leading to the review of the case.

Sunday Independent

Spiritiser

The Woodcock wrote: »

I believe there was a memorial notice for Moll Carthy published in the Irish Independent last week on the 73rd anniversary of her death. It was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson.

This was followed by an article from Jim Cusack in the Sunday Independent (below). The two main points of interest for me from the article are (i) three of Moll Carthy's children are still alive but can't be traced (ii) someone gives a very different perspective on the role of Sean MacBride in the defence of Gleeson.

---

Shatter orders case review 73 years after man hanged

IN MEMORIAM: The notice from the 'Irish Independent'
JIM CUSACK – 24 NOVEMBER 2013

THE first in memoriam notice for the unmarried mother of six whose murder in 1940 is still the cause of controversy in Co Tipperary appeared last week.


The notice in the Irish Independent was placed by family and friends of Harry Gleeson, whose conviction for murder and hanging is currently being reviewed by a senior counsel on behalf of Justice Minister Alan Shatter, who has ordered a review of the case.

Bernadette Gorman, whose father Billy was a close friend of Harry Gleeson, believes along with others that there was a conspiracy involving the State, gardai and the IRA men whom, she believes, murdered Mary 'Moll' McCarthy in November 1940.

Until last week the anniversary of Ms McCarthy's murder had gone unmarked, though her death and the execution of Harry Gleeson has been the cause of frequent revisiting. Ms Gorman hopes the death notice will spark wider interest in the case and come to the notice of the remaining children or grandchildren of Ms McCarthy.

Her children would need to give "locus standi" consent for any re-examination of the case by the courts.

Ms McCarthy was killed in November 1940 when she was shot in the face with a shotgun. No image of her alive has been found. She reputedly had six children by six different local men and raised her family with money paid by the fathers of her children, according to local legend.

Ms Gorman, among others, believes that she was murdered by the father of her last child – who died in infancy – to cover up the parenthood.

The State case was that Harry Gleeson made Ms McCarthy pregnant then killed her because she threatened to expose his paternity. It was argued that Gleeson's aunt and uncle, whose farm he hoped to inherit, would remove him from their will.

Ms Gorman said her father was in business with Harry Gleeson and at the time Ms McCarthy became pregnant, her father and Gleeson were working "day and night" with each other at their harvesting business. They had invested in modern threshing and binding machinery and were extremely busy at the time, she said. Mr Gleeson's aunt and uncle's farm, where he was living, was beside the cottage where Ms McCarthy lived. Mr Gleeson found her body but denied her murder right up to the moment of his execution.

Her father was not called as a witness and was present in court when the death sentence was handed down.

"That lived with him for the rest of his life," she said.

She also said that her father described Sean MacBride, defence counsel for Mr Gleeson as "a Judas".

Mr MacBride was chief of staff of the IRA until 1936 and suspicions remain that he failed to mount an adequate defence in order to protect the local IRA unit who, some believe, murdered McCarthy.

Suspicions remain that Ms McCarthy had been made pregnant by a leading IRA man and that he and three others murdered her to cover up his parternity.

Ms McCarthy, who was said to have made no secret of having had her children all by different fathers, was the subject of vilification and was reputedly denounced by a local priest as the "Devil's disciple".

Following petitioning by people who believe there was a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice, Mr Shatter ordered that the case be reviewed by senior counsel with the prospect of the case being returned to the courts for review.

The murder at Marlhill, New Inn, Tipperary, was the subject of the book Thou Shalt not Kill by the RTE journalist Cathal O'Shannon in 1995.

O'Shannon believed there had been a conspiracy and miscarriage of justice.

A group of academics and interested parties have continued campaigning for the re-opening of the case and appealed to Mr Shatter last year, leading to the review of the case.

Sunday Independent

Thanks for posting that Marcus Bourke says Mr MacBride did his best and often spoke of his failure to save gleeson. He felt he may have had made an error by not calling any witness and/or challenging the prosecution at the pre trial hearing.

kathygray

Hi all, My Uncle was Tommy Reid who lived and worked closely with Harry Gleeson at the time of Mol's Murder. He personally talked to me about that time and knew Harry extremely well. He told me that there was NO WAY Harry could have done it because he was with him that evening and when Harry did go out he was back home soon after, clean! Also, when he went out for a bit that evening the shotgun was still in the house!

GoodLord

When is the new book out?

Johnboy1951

kfagan99 wrote: »

Congratulations to the Justice for Harry Gleeson group whose splendid work looks like achieving a pardon.

I expect to have news of a publisher for Hung Out To Die, my book which will identify who killed Moll Carthy (Mary McCarthy) and how they got away with it shortly.

Above from Sept last year ......

So did you get a publisher yet?

kfagan99

Sorry no firm date yet. After my book Hung Out To Die was turned down by some publishers last year, I set about rewriting it. Coincidentally I received a fair amount of extra information during the rewriting. The revised book is now with the Jonathan Williams Literary Agency and I am confident it will be published in 2015. Thank you for asking. Kieran Fagan.

HelenV

kathygray wrote: »

Hi all, My Uncle was Tommy Reid who lived and worked closely with Harry Gleeson at the time of Mol's Murder. He personally talked to me about that time and knew Harry extremely well. He told me that there was NO WAY Harry could have done it because he was with him that evening and when Harry did go out he was back home soon after, clean! Also, when he went out for a bit that evening the shotgun was still in the house!

I clearly remember Tommy Reid's contribution on an RTE documentary years ago when he said Harry "was as innocent as Our Lord". He seemed to have been deeply affected by the whole sorry affair.

grey_so_what

HelenV wrote: »

I clearly remember Tommy Reid's contribution on an RTE documentary years ago when he said Harry "was as innocent as Our Lord". He seemed to have been deeply affected by the whole sorry affair.

Harry's case is being highlighted on Prime Time this evening....

Hopefully Justice will prevail...

Xenophile

Tonight on Prime Time after the nine o'clock News............if you miss it maybe you can see it on RTE+1 on Saor View.

grey_so_what

That was very sad to watch, what an end to two lives....RIP to both Harry and Moll.....

It sounds like there was a very big brush used to sweet under the carpet....

Harry was also my Grandmothers brother....

Johnboy1951

There was mention of Harry Reid's programme being shown tonight .... or did I misunderstand?

grey_so_what

The reporter said it was been shown "nationally for the first time tonight" - I think he meant the interview as was seen on the program Johnboy....

You could see how upset poor Tommy Reid was in the clip shown...what terrible times that you could threaten a man with sheer brutality...

HelenV

My understanding of that was that excerpts of an old interview were shown for the first time to-night (during Prime Time)

HelenV

grey_so_what wrote: »

That was very sad to watch, what an end to two lives....RIP to both Harry and Moll.....

It sounds like there was a very big brush used to sweet under the carpet....

Harry was also my Grandmothers brother....

Heartbreaking isn't it! I cannot help wondering why Counsel / Dept of Justice are dragging their heels - surely there's more than enough evidence now to prove Harry's innocence!

Well done to the Justice for Harry Gleeson Group and the Innocence Project - ye've done trojan work.

grey_so_what

HelenV wrote: »

Heartbreaking isn't it! I cannot help wondering why Counsel / Dept of Justice are dragging their heels - surely there's more than enough evidence now to prove Harry's innocence!

Well done to the Justice for Harry Gleeson Group and the Innocence Project - ye've done trojan work.

Well said HelenV.......

It's also very sad that both graves are effectively unmarked....how little regard this "religious" country treated the dead in years gone by....:(

Mind you, they treated the living worse....but that's another story...

It would be lovely to see a plaque remembering both Harry and Moll. They deserve that at least...

The Woodcock

I've just watched the Prime Time feature which, for those who missed it, is already on RTE Player http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10307010/

Watching the footage of Tommy Reid's interview, shown for the first time, was poignant and sad.

I hope that the SC who was charged with looking into this case can arrive at a conclusion very soon and that the long-awaited pardon will be granted.

P.s. for those travelling the M8 between Cashel and Cahir, the old water pump where Harry and Moll used to cross paths and which is referred to several times in Marcus Bourke's book is, I am sure, still visible just to the left of the motorway as you travel south through Marlhill.

feargale

By way of an aside I understand that Harry Gleeson worked for his uncle John Caesar. Does anyone know what became of Mr. Caesar?

The Woodcock

feargale wrote: »

By way of an aside I understand that Harry Gleeson worked for his uncle John Caesar. Does anyone know what became of Mr. Caesar?

From what I can recall from Marcus Bourke's book, both Mr and Mrs Ceaser died in the early to mid 1950s. Harry's execution had a devastating effect on them both. They were childless (which is why Harry was expected to inherit the farm).

Johnboy1951

The Woodcock wrote: »

From what I can recall from Marcus Bourke's book, both Mr and Mrs Ceaser died in the early to mid 1950s. Harry's execution had a devastating effect on them both. They were childless (which is why Harry was expected to inherit the farm).

They had at times children of relatives staying with them as was the custom back then.

GoodLord

The Woodcock wrote: »

I've just watched the Prime Time feature which, for those who missed it, is already on RTE Player http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10307010/

Watching the footage of Tommy Reid's interview, shown for the first time, was poignant and sad.

I hope that the SC who was charged with looking into this case can arrive at a conclusion very soon and that the long-awaited pardon will be granted.

P.s. for those travelling the M8 between Cashel and Cahir, the old water pump where Harry and Moll used to cross paths and which is referred to several times in Marcus Bourke's book is, I am sure, still visible just to the left of the motorway as you travel south through Marlhill.

Is there anywhere else it can be seen from, any other road through marlhill? Where is the graveyard shown in the Prime Time report?

Edit:- Is this the area?

feargale

The Woodcock wrote: »

From what I can recall from Marcus Bourke's book, both Mr and Mrs Ceaser died in the early to mid 1950s. Harry's execution had a devastating effect on them both. They were childless (which is why Harry was expected to inherit the farm).

I believe Mr. Caesar won an All-Ireland with Tipperary in the 1890s.

GoodLord

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/a-murder-a-hanged-man-and-a-plea-of-innocence-from-the-grave-26734944.html

has anyone got the book named in above?. Or the thou shalt not kill episode about the case?