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Killed a motorcyclist? That'll be €1000 please...

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135

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    #62
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Dartz wrote: »
    It is actually very difficult to see a motorcycle. Comapared to the mirror area occupied by a car, it's a much smaller frontal area, in a noisy visual environment, on the already small mirror. Motorcyclists are hard to spot.

    This really was just a tragic accident. Neither the driver, nor the biker were in the wrong. The driver did everything in his power save craning his head around out the window, the motorcyclist was riding safely.

    The driver didn't do anything wrong, he just got caught out by circumstance. On any other day the result would've been a locked brake and a brown trouser moment for both involved, but it didn't.

    I don't think the driver's life should be ruined over this. He did nothing wrong, he shouldn't be punished. It's something that's happened to all of us at some stage, we just got away with it and forget about it ten minutes later.

    See, that is exactly the attitude I have a problem with. If you drive like that then you should not be on the roads, simple as that. The ignorance of your attitude is outstanding.


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    #63
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    Anan1 wrote: »
    I don't think i'd go this far. The driver was wrong to pull out without ensuring that his path was clear. I can understand how it can happen, but it doesn't change the fact that the motorcyclist is dead because the driver pulled out without properly checking his mirrors. The above is based on the assumption that the motorcyclist wasn't doing a ridiculous speed.

    Because despite the report stating there were no aggravating factors It should still be assumed that all motorcyclists are constantly traveling at ridiculous speeds until proven otherwise? guilty until proven innocent? :rolleyes:

    That's a nice think brush your taring all motorcyclist with there...

    in a case like this there would be no assumptions made, speeds would be calculated before and at time of impact.blood/alcohol levels would be recorded. the scene would be investigated by garda.


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    #64
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    hobochris wrote: »
    Because despite the report stating there were no aggravating factors It should still be assumed that all motorcyclists are constantly traveling at ridiculous speeds until proven otherwise? guilty until proven innocent? :rolleyes:

    That's a nice think brush your taring all motorcyclist with there...

    But bikers drive at the speed of light!!111

    :rolleyes:


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    #65
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    Well the safest place for bikes is away from cars, which is why they are eager to get by you.


    Thats no excuse for doing it in a dangerous manner. Its not as if a bike cannot cover a short distance very quickly. Where's the need to be right behind someone?


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    #66
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    hobochris wrote: »
    Because despite the report stating there were no aggravating factors It should still be assumed that all motorcyclists are constantly traveling at ridiculous speeds until proven otherwise? guilty until proven innocent? :rolleyes:

    That's a nice think brush your taring all motorcyclist with there...

    in a case like this there would be no assumptions made, speeds would be calculated before and at time of impact.blood/alcohol levels would be recorded. the scene would be investigated by garda.
    What part of the word 'wasn't' don't you understand?:D


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    #67
    JD1763
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭JD1763


    Just like those yuppy bmw and audi drivers right?


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    #68
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    But bikers drive at the speed of light!!111

    :rolleyes:

    I know I better go adjust my light speed drive at lunch, its not quite running at peek performance. :D


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    #69
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    Not when your several inches away from my back bumper.

    He has a deathwish and is going to be come a statistic.

    But I much prefer the idea of a motorbike 3 feet away from my back bumper that the car 3 feet away from my back tire. Which believe me is just as frequent.
    Dartz wrote: »
    It is actually very difficult to see a motorcycle. Comapared to the mirror area occupied by a car, it's a much smaller frontal area, in a noisy visual environment, on the already small mirror. Motorcyclists are hard to spot.

    This really was just a tragic accident. Neither the driver, nor the biker were in the wrong. The driver did everything in his power save craning his head around out the window, the motorcyclist was riding safely.

    The driver didn't do anything wrong, he just got caught out by circumstance. On any other day the result would've been a locked brake and a brown trouser moment for both involved, but it didn't.

    I don't think the driver's life should be ruined over this. He did nothing wrong, he shouldn't be punished. It's something that's happened to all of us at some stage, we just got away with it and forget about it ten minutes later.

    What a load of bull. He didn't see the bike because he didn't look for one. He checked his mirror for a car and then turned. I see it daily with car drivers. I see it with car drivers and pedestrians, I see it with car drivers and bikes and I see it with car drivers and motorbikes. If it doesn't weight over a ton and has two lights its promptly ignored by a large portion of the driving community.

    I drive a big bright yellow bike, luminous orange jacket, black helmet, white sleeves and have my front(and very noticeable) light on all the time. I can't turn the thing off. How many times this morning did somebody check their mirrors and not see me? Want to hazard a guess?


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    #70
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    hobochris wrote: »
    I know I better go adjust my light speed drive at lunch, its not quite running at peek performance. :D

    Just don't check your mirrors or you'll see yourself and break the time-space continuim :D


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    #71
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    Anan1 wrote: »
    What part of the word 'wasn't' don't you understand?:D
    Your sentence as a whole implies that the motorcyclist was traveling at excessive speed though ....


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    #72
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    JD1763 wrote: »
    Just like those yuppy bmw and audi drivers right?

    Wow, that comment really got under your skin huh?


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    #73
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    Thats no excuse for doing it in a dangerous manner. Its not as if a bike cannot cover a short distance very quickly. Where's the need to be right behind someone?

    I do agree with you, I always either overtake or leave plenty space between myself and the car in front, I'm just explaining why a biker might be doing that.


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    #74
    JD1763
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭JD1763


    Nope just you and your high horse tbh. Stop holding up motor cyclists as the pinnacle of road users when we all know that they are not. The same as with car drivers there are good ones and bad ones its a mixed bag.


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    #75
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    What a load of bull. He didn't see the bike because he didn't look for one. He checked his mirror for a car and then turned. I see it daily with car drivers. I see it with car drivers and pedestrians, I see it with car drivers and bikes and I see it with car drivers and motorbikes. If it doesn't weight over a ton and has two lights its promptly ignored by a large portion of the driving community.

    I drive a big bright yellow bike, luminous orange jacket, black helmet, white sleeves and have my front(and very noticeable) light on all the time. I can't turn the thing off. How many times this morning did somebody check their mirrors and not see me? Want to hazard a guess?
    This does happen a lot, but we have no way of knowing what happened in this instance. I always keep a particular eye out for bikes, but it could still have been me.


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    #76
    BigEejit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    hobochris wrote: »
    Today(so far) I had two assassination attempts for example.. both attempted side swipes. There is defiantly an attitude amongst car drivers about bikes, I see it every day.
    Are you trying to help or disparage the motorcyclists position?

    I generally drive in London and there is probably a far higher number of bikes over here per capita than in Dublin. Sometimes I really do think that they have a deathwish (even more so than cyclists). Drive a car through the Blackwall tunnel during rush hour and you will see motorbikes speeding, changing lanes, undertaking, zooming between cars on the double yellow line and generally being cocks. I am not talking about a few, I would estimate half of them doing it, usually on higher power bikes. I would say a fair proportion of those numpties would all describe the car drivers as probably being asassins as well.


    To the guys arguing about the percentages of accidents that are single vehicle, how many car accidents that resulted in fatalities are single vehicle? (yes I realise that you are less likely to die in a car).


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    #77
    BigEejit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    JD1763 wrote: »
    Nope just you and your high horse tbh. Stop holding up motor cyclists as the pinnacle of road users when we all know that they are not. The same as with car drivers there are good ones and bad ones its a mixed bag.
    QFT


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    #78
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Anan1 wrote: »
    The above is based on the assumption that the motorcyclist wasn't doing a ridiculous speed.
    hobochris wrote: »
    Your sentence as a whole implies that the motorcyclist was traveling at excessive speed though ....
    Where, in Wonderland?


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    #79
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    JD1763 wrote: »
    Nope just you and your high horse tbh. Stop holding up motor cyclists as the pinnacle of road users when we all know that they are not. The same as with car drivers there are good ones and bad ones its a mixed bag.

    Well in my experience bikers are 90% good, 10% bad. I wish I could say the same (or even anything remotely close to that) about car drivers.


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    #80
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,983 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    JD1763 wrote: »
    Nope just you and your high horse tbh. Stop holding up motor cyclists as the pinnacle of road users when we all know that they are not. The same as with car drivers there are good ones and bad ones its a mixed bag.

    Unlike car drivers, bad motorbike drivers tend not to last too long on the road.


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    #81
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Where, in Wonderland?

    I think his problem was the fact that you felt the need to mention the speed of the bike.


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    #82
    lintdrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    This was so easily avoidable. If there was room for him to pull in on the left he should have just indicated right and let traffic pass inside him on the left. There are too many drivers who don't know the turning circle of their own vehicle.


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    #83
    hobochris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    JD1763 wrote: »
    Nope just you and your high horse tbh. Stop holding up motor cyclists as the pinnacle of road users when we all know that they are not. The same as with car drivers there are good ones and bad ones its a mixed bag.

    I'm not sure about others here but I never claimed to be the pinnacle of road users, But in the course of operating a motorcycle on a public road and surviving, there are a lot of safety procedures that unlike cars we do not have the luxury of being able to ignore and live to tell the tail about it.

    I'm not saying I don't make mistakes, I do, but I don't make mistakes on vital things like observation.

    For example, any motorcyclist with an ounce of training will use lifesaver maneuvers religiously when changing the bikes direction, How many car drivers still look over there shoulder before they pull off?

    The point is that your putting someone else's life at risk not just your own by not doing things like mirror checks correctly.

    Now I understand there are always bad apples, but as mentioned above they are not normally around for long on a bike, where as they would be in a car.
    KamiKazi wrote: »
    I think his problem was the fact that you felt the need to mention the speed of the bike.

    Exactly, the original report stated there were no aggravating factors such as excessive speed. Which in a case like this would not just be left to an assumption.


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    #84
    Wossack
    Registered Users Posts: 7,004 ✭✭✭Wossack


    SMIDSY :(

    rip


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    #85
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    Look, all of this arguing is well and good, but it doesnt remove from that fact that a person died.

    Nobody in here knows the full circumstances of this case, so unless you do, you shouldnt really be saying "oh, the driver was driving dangerously" or whatever.


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    #86
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    Where do you cross the line then between careless and dangerous? When you put the life of someone else at risk it isn't careless it's downright dangerous.
    As a pedestrian I was knocked down by a motorcyclist with no licence or insurance. He was fined £10.
    The fine has little to do with it. He didn't mean to knock me down. He now has a criminal record which I'm sure he'd pay thousands to clear.


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    #87
    JD1763
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭JD1763


    I can list off a litany of run ins I've had with bad motor cyclists its about as long as the list of run ins I've had with bad motorists. So maybe a bit of perspective on your comments would have more people agreeing with your viewpoint instead of throwing out crass generalisations that do nothing to help your argument. So like I said stop holding them up as some sort of ideal who never do anything wrong or are never to blame in accidents - thats simply not true.


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    #88
    Dartz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,373 ✭✭✭Dartz


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    See, that is exactly the attitude I have a problem with. If you drive like that then you should not be on the roads, simple as that. The ignorance of your attitude is outstanding.

    Ignorant?

    He looked, he didn't see. It's a bloody easy thing to do. Or are you perfectly aware of each and every little thing around you at all times? Have you ever had a 'where the **** did that come from?' moment? Car, bike, pedestrian that 'just appeared' in front of you. You looked alright, but you just didn't spot it for some reason. Are you so bloody perfect that you've never had a moment like that?

    It doesn't take much to hide a vehicle... it doesn't take much to miss one either. The human eye and the human brain are imperfect things at best. Or are you some sort of all-seeing robot?


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    #89
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    I think his problem was the fact that you felt the need to mention the speed of the bike.
    Isn't it relevant?


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    #90
    QTour
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭QTour


    Hello everybody,

    I am a biker. I have received advanced training.

    I use my bike every day, rain or shine. It's not only transport for me but an escape. I love it. I love using it.

    I am a mature conscientious, cautious adult.

    I ride within the limits and conditions of our roads. I occasionally enjoy a little speed when the conditions are exactly right.

    I respect all other road users and thank those who let me pass.

    I share the roads with an increasing number of careless and sometimes agressive, car drivers.

    Because I ride a motorbike should not mean that I am branded a hooligan in the same way that I do not brand all car drivers dangerous or careless.

    Driving carelessly caused the death of this biker.

    I am a father, husband, son, brother, and friend.

    If we meet in an accident, I will lose. You already have it won.

    Please have more tollerance. Please be less careless. Please let me pass and be on my way. Please help me get home safe. I will try to be less annoying to you.

    Thanks to those of you who already take these considerations and those that might do in future.

    QTour


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    #91
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Dartz wrote: »
    Ignorant?

    He looked, he didn't see. It's a bloody easy thing to do. Or are you perfectly aware of each and every little thing around you at all times? Have you ever had a 'where the **** did that come from?' moment? Car, bike, pedestrian that 'just appeared' in front of you. You looked alright, but you just didn't spot it for some reason. Are you so bloody perfect that you've never had a moment like that?

    It doesn't take much to hide a vehicle... it doesn't take much to miss one either. The human eye and the human brain are imperfect things at best. Or are you some sort of all-seeing robot?

    Yes I like to think I see everything. Motorcyclists that drive with blinkers on simply do not live to tell the tale. Missing a vehicle approaching on the road you're pulling out onto is not a little thing, it's a pretty big deal. The last time I missed something 'small' was a patch of gravel on a sharp bend which left me barely able to walk for a week, even though I was only driving @ 30 km/h. So yea, bikers can't afford to miss anything.


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