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Promising Players who Disappeared

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭LFC5Times


    remwhite wrote: »
    What happened that Foley fella who was on that good CBC Monkstown team a few years back. Went straight to an academy contract after school but never seen him since. Thought there was 2 or 3 highly rated lads on that team.

    Gary Foley I think is the lad you are talking about, I remember him getting rave reviews at Junior Cup.

    The last I heard he was playing with Seapoint - who would be alot more attractive a team to play for now that they are playing AIL and up around the top of Div 3.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 joesoap25


    McMalley wrote: »
    Keith Doyle is most definately not a FF Councillor. He played 3 years in the academy, AIL for UCD, had to retire due to a back injury.

    Dave O'Brien has 2 blues from Cambridge if I'm not mistaken.

    John Hearty played a bit for Leinster then headed to Connacht for a few seasons. Also had to retire due to injury..

    Thanks for your help McMalley.

    Someone was asking about Diarmuid Laffan he's not playing rugby and has his own band. I think he's a professional musician


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Sid_Justice


    I often wonder what great insight these journalists have, plenty of knowledge and not much wisdom. Why is there a presumption that a great schools player would be a great professional?

    It's relatively easy to become a big fish in a small pond but when released into the ocean these guys get eaten up.

    There are so many factors that contribute to a schools player making the transition to professional

    1. genuine talent (maybe they're just more athletic than the other children and without this advantage they're actually mediocre)
    2. size (nobody is naturally big enough to be a professional, it takes a lot of gym time to go from 80kg 18 year old to 100kg.
    3. interest - rugby is a great sport but is it a great career?
    4. aptitude - hard work and ability
    5. support - i think the academies and ail clubs are great and i think the majority of rising professionals can accomodate mickey mouse courses and training but college football usa style we are not
    6. luck - injuries, money, location

    and finally competition. for every Luke Fitzgerald - he is definitely going to be an international - there is 50 guys that just didn't have what it takes


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    I woner when will Fitzgerald get his first cap. 2006 maybe if he's lucky


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 chipchop


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Vasya Artemiev was touted as the next Hickie, amazingly quick and powerfull, but couldn't defend for sh*t, hands weren't great and generally a fairly average player with the exception of getting him in a bit of space out wide he'll score.

    Not good enough for pro rugby.

    seems alot of people on this thread called it wrong on the young lad as hes now rippin it up at franklins garden and causing quite a stir too! http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12544/7308028/

    scored a try against ireland for russia in the world cup too!.. just goes to show that never giving up and a bit of hard work pays off!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    chipchop wrote: »
    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Vasya Artemiev was touted as the next Hickie, amazingly quick and powerfull, but couldn't defend for sh*t, hands weren't great and generally a fairly average player with the exception of getting him in a bit of space out wide he'll score.

    Not good enough for pro rugby.'

    seems alot of people on this thread called it wrong on the young lad as hes now rippin it up at franklins garden and causing quite a stir too! http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12544/7308028/

    scored a try against ireland for russia in the world cup too!.. just goes to show that never giving up and a bit of hard work pays off!

    I still think a lot of the criticism is very fair. His mistakes against Munster showed that...he will score if he gets the ball in space but he lacks a lot of basic skills.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    chipchop wrote: »
    seems alot of people on this thread called it wrong on the young lad as hes now rippin it up at franklins garden and causing quite a stir too! http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12544/7308028/

    scored a try against ireland for russia in the world cup too!.. just goes to show that never giving up and a bit of hard work pays off!

    He was unbelievable for Munster at Thomond. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 chipchop


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    chipchop wrote: »

    I still think a lot of the criticism is very fair. His mistakes against Munster showed that...he will score if he gets the ball in space but he lacks a lot of basic skills.
    He was unbelievable for Munster at Thomond. ;)

    Haha yeah very true to be fair! but he's making an impression in the premiership which I reckon has to be applauded considering all seemed lost afew years ago!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    Aye, he made a name for himself at the RWC and he's doing well in England.

    Now if only we could find out where Diarmuid McCarthy got to..


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He still has a bit of the Gary Browns about him. I think people were fairly justified in their criticisms of him. Potential to still be a great player considering his age and I'm happy he's getting the chance. Good for Russia too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭skregs


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    As for the Blackrock dream team, I don't think O'Driscoll would come anywhere near the blackrock 13 jersey throughout the history of the school based on his schools rugby performance, considering he wasn't even a first choice 13 and famously was dropped from the senior cup team and he doesn't have a senior cup winners medal.

    Funny to hear a lot of people saying he wasn't much use in school. I know lads who played for clontard in '97 and insist that BOD single-handed put four tries past them in a match. Never had any reason to doubt them before.

    Probably impossible to verify at this stage though


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Artemyev is a poor man's Keith Earls. And I don't exactly rate Earls.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 chipchop


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Artemyev is a poor man's Keith Earls. And I don't exactly rate Earls.

    you dont rate a young lad who has this in his locker?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdkuVKAm15c

    granted due to his size he might not be the 13 to replace BOD like everyone thought but he can be devestating on the wing or at full back!
    CiaranMT wrote: »
    Aye, he made a name for himself at the RWC and he's doing well in England.

    Now if only we could find out where Diarmuid McCarthy got to..

    from what I hear after the senior cup McCarthy wasnt too pushed/didnt feel ready for playing with munster so took a break, as far as i know he's been playing AIL with Garryowen but i havent seen his name mentioned in any of their recent squads...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    chipchop wrote: »
    you dont rate a young lad who has this in his locker?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdkuVKAm15c

    granted due to his size he might not be the 13 to replace BOD like everyone thought but he can be devestating on the wing or at full back!

    Ah yes. The try that made everyone exclaim that Keith Earls was the next Brian O'Driscoll. I have never been an Earls cheerleader and whenever the topic of conversation arises at the pub i'm inevitably shunned as not having a clue. Earls is a good winger and thats where it ends in my opinion. His defensive positioning is poor, his general attacking position is poor, his football brain is poor, he is bad under a high ball, doesnt seem to use the step that scored him so many tries for the U20's/Ireland A teams he played for in the past effectively anymore and his passing, while improved, is still not where it should be.

    In my opinion Earls is one of the most overrated regular Irish starters in recent memory. The lad was moved all over the place in his early Munster/Ireland days and as a result he never seemed to have any confidence when he played which is a pity because he is definitely a confidence player as evidenced by his almost disastrous Lions tour.

    In a few more years it wouldnt surprise me if he was struggling to make the bench for Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    chipchop wrote: »
    seems alot of people on this thread called it wrong on the young lad as hes now rippin it up at franklins garden and causing quite a stir too! http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12544/7308028/

    scored a try against ireland for russia in the world cup too!.. just goes to show that never giving up and a bit of hard work pays off!

    I've the utmost respect for what Artemyev has done by making a career for himself via the road less travelled. However, I don't think many people got it wrong. He still has serious deficiencies in his game. He is defensively weak. His positioning is poor. This was highlighted in the WC but most people only saw him for his try against us. He was awful against Italy. He has gas and is elusive but so are a lot of people. Leinster released him in light of who he was up against. They had Niall Morris, Luke Fitz, Dave Kearney amongst others ahead of him. They made the right call by cutting him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Suppose for all the arguments about Artemyev, the title of this thread is "Promising Players who Disappeared."

    Starting in the HEC for last years finalists against Munster in Thomond is not really disappearing...

    Agree Leinster were right to let him go when they did though. Had the displeasure of playing against a Rock team with Luke and Artemyev once. They were playing with the year above them. luke's footwork was unreal, Artemyev was impossible to defend against due to his pace, but it was just his pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    chupacabra wrote: »
    Ah yes. The try that made everyone exclaim that Keith Earls was the next Brian O'Driscoll. I have never been an Earls cheerleader and whenever the topic of conversation arises at the pub i'm inevitably shunned as not having a clue. Earls is a good winger and thats where it ends in my opinion. His defensive positioning is poor, his general attacking position is poor, his football brain is poor, he is bad under a high ball, doesnt seem to use the step that scored him so many tries for the U20's/Ireland A teams he played for in the past effectively anymore and his passing, while improved, is still not where it should be.

    In my opinion Earls is one of the most overrated regular Irish starters in recent memory. The lad was moved all over the place in his early Munster/Ireland days and as a result he never seemed to have any confidence when he played which is a pity because he is definitely a confidence player as evidenced by his almost disastrous Lions tour.

    In a few more years it wouldnt surprise me if he was struggling to make the bench for Ireland.

    I'm inclined to agree with chupacabra... I've been following Earls' carreer since his Munchins days and was genuinely excited when he broke through at Munster & Ireland. It looked at the time that he had the stuff to be an excellent 13 for club and country.. Unfortunately he has never translated that potential into consistent, meaningful performances. Ultimately I believe he will continue to be a first teamer for Munster on the wing but there is allot of talent coming behind him on the Irish scene and it would not surprise me to see him overtaken in the Irish shirt before the 6 nations is over.. It's a huge pity and in hindsight, the Lions tour probably came a season too early for him, he was out of his depth and his confidence suffered as a result.. We have only seen intermittent flashes of brilliance laced with numerous defensive brainfarts over the past 12 months.. I hope he proves me wrong!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭d-gal


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    chupacabra wrote: »
    Ah yes. The try that made everyone exclaim that Keith Earls was the next Brian O'Driscoll. I have never been an Earls cheerleader and whenever the topic of conversation arises at the pub i'm inevitably shunned as not having a clue. Earls is a good winger and thats where it ends in my opinion. His defensive positioning is poor, his general attacking position is poor, his football brain is poor, he is bad under a high ball, doesnt seem to use the step that scored him so many tries for the U20's/Ireland A teams he played for in the past effectively anymore and his passing, while improved, is still not where it should be.

    In my opinion Earls is one of the most overrated regular Irish starters in recent memory. The lad was moved all over the place in his early Munster/Ireland days and as a result he never seemed to have any confidence when he played which is a pity because he is definitely a confidence player as evidenced by his almost disastrous Lions tour.

    In a few more years it wouldnt surprise me if he was struggling to make the bench for Ireland.

    I'm inclined to agree with chupacabra... I've been following Earls' carreer since his Munchins days and was genuinely excited when he broke through at Munster & Ireland. It looked at the time that he had the stuff to be an excellent 13 for club and country.. Unfortunately he has never translated that potential into consistent, meaningful performances. Ultimately I believe he will continue to be a first teamer for Munster on the wing but there is allot of talent coming behind him on the Irish scene and it would not surprise me to see him overtaken in the Irish shirt before the 6 nations is over.. It's a huge pity and in hindsight, the Lions tour probably came a season too early for him, he was out of his depth and his confidence suffered as a result.. We have only seen intermittent flashes of brilliance laced with numerous defensive brainfarts over the past 12 months.. I hope he proves me wrong!

    Give Earls time, still developing as a person. Sports psychology has helped him a lot and I think if he develops a little more mental strength he will be one of the Irish greats. Only Irish player I look at and see some flashes of absolute genius. They are rare at times but still young enough to improve


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    chupacabra wrote: »
    Ah yes. The try that made everyone exclaim that Keith Earls was the next Brian O'Driscoll. I have never been an Earls cheerleader and whenever the topic of conversation arises at the pub i'm inevitably shunned as not having a clue. Earls is a good winger and thats where it ends in my opinion. His defensive positioning is poor, his general attacking position is poor, his football brain is poor, he is bad under a high ball, doesnt seem to use the step that scored him so many tries for the U20's/Ireland A teams he played for in the past effectively anymore and his passing, while improved, is still not where it should be.

    In my opinion Earls is one of the most overrated regular Irish starters in recent memory. The lad was moved all over the place in his early Munster/Ireland days and as a result he never seemed to have any confidence when he played which is a pity because he is definitely a confidence player as evidenced by his almost disastrous Lions tour.

    In a few more years it wouldnt surprise me if he was struggling to make the bench for Ireland.

    I don't think Earls is weak under the high ball. He made some great catches for Ireland in the World Cup. He's also got a great boot on him. I don't think he's suited to the center, but I think he's great in the back 3.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    I couldn't really describe Earls as possessing genius. There was his flick off the boot in his first proper season but aside from that I haven't seen anything to give the impression he possesses the level of skill and ability to be considered a potential genius. He doesn't have many tricks in his armoury. The ones he does have are of a high standard but he's a limited player at the moment. There's only a few players that I would consider possessing genius in the pro era for Ireland. BOD, Geordan Murphy (who did the soloing a bouncing ball into his hands trick long before Earls but few remember/saw it) and, with the boot, ROG. Earls needs to seriously round out his game before he could ever be mentioned in the same breath as those players. Earls is now 24. If he wants to ever be considered that good he will need to improve rapidly in some aspects of his game. As mentioned above, there are players coming through that will push him very hard. Andrew Conway and Craig Gilroy have the same tricks that Earls has but they have much more time to develop. If Earls doesn't round out his game, he'll find himself back as a peripheral player for the national side again in a couple of years.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    The one thing in Earls' favour is he possesses raw pace, its one attribute that can't be coached, you either have it or you dont.. I just question his decision making & peripheral vision. I'm afraid at 24, in his fourth season with Munster, we have to hold him to a higher standard..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 chipchop


    crisco10 wrote: »
    Suppose for all the arguments about Artemyev, the title of this thread is "Promising Players who Disappeared."

    Starting in the HEC for last years finalists against Munster in Thomond is not really disappearing...

    Agree Leinster were right to let him go when they did though. Had the displeasure of playing against a Rock team with Luke and Artemyev once. They were playing with the year above them. luke's footwork was unreal, Artemyev was impossible to defend against due to his pace, but it was just his pace.

    Aye agreed its about players who disappeared but the whole point is that the lad was dropped by Leinster, disappears for a few years and resurrected his career through playing in Russia which is commendable when you consider all the players who would just give up to concentrate on a more stable career at such a crossroads! And lets face it while he was shakey under the highball against munster (and long my it continue :-) ) the lad was probably bricking it being a former leinster/ireland reject coming to thomond park trying to prove a point!! Added to that Jim Mallinder clearly sees something in he's gotta be doing something right!.... mind you the same could be said about James Downey but he cudnt be more one dimensional as a battering ram with zero skill!
    d-gal wrote: »
    Give Earls time, still developing as a person. Sports psychology has helped him a lot and I think if he develops a little more mental strength he will be one of the Irish greats. Only Irish player I look at and see some flashes of absolute genius. They are rare at times but still young enough to improve

    Completely agree with you here, Earls has been one of the most exciting prospect in Irish rugby in a long time! the only thing being that he wont be the centre everyone hoped for because he doesn't possesses the physicality of BOD but in the back 3 with his pace and skill he can be devastating! perhaps he may have to work on his consistency but that will come eventually as he matures.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    The one thing in Earls' favour is he possesses raw pace, its one attribute that can't be coached, you either have it or you dont.. I just question his decision making & peripheral vision. I'm afraid at 24, in his fourth season with Munster, we have to hold him to a higher standard..

    I disagree, to an extent. Earls is a fantastic finisher for other reasons than just pace, watch how he controls his body when he's squeezing into the corner for some of his more recent tries, or his positioning when taking on the ball. 5 tries in the RWC, joint top try scorer in the 2010 6 nations, he went through a slump inbetween but I think he's coming back.

    He needs to improve his passing if he's going to be a centre longer term alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 quinys13


    I played a few games in the centre with Cormac Dowling over in Boston back in 2004 . He had problems with his knees. Good lad haven't seen him since. I think anyone who has gone on to play professional or is still playing at all is not disappearing! Just because they didn't play for their country, That's a very small minority. I originally went on this thread to see if there was a mention of Diarmuid McCarthy who I saw score some great tries for Castletroy on their way to Munster
    schools cup in 2007.
    themont85 wrote: »
    Ward mentioned Cormac Dowling last week in the school's supplement.

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/schools-rugby/three-more-that-got-away-2500031.html
    Cormac Dowling

    (PBC Bray)

    The Pres Bray man lit up the left wing on Gibney's dream team (see main). Could play across the backline and they say he had the potential to equal Brian O'Driscoll. Injury problems meant we never got a chance to properly find out.

    Tom Murphy

    (Cistercian Roscrea)

    Played in the 1991 Schools back-row that included Anthony Foley and David Corkery and still managed to shine.

    Malcolm Mahon

    (CBC Monkstown)

    A natural sprinter with size and skills to go with his pace, Mahon was devastatingly effective at full-back for CBC Monkstown and on the Ireland Schools team in 1983.

    Supplements


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    There was Save Tokula, well at least he applies to the "disappeared" part. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 rockfist


    MG wrote: »
    Munster squad member but has been injured for most of the past few seasons. Played for the A team last week I think.

    The U21 team that reached the WC final in 04 might make interesting reading:

    15 - Andrew Finn (Dolphin) 14 - Richard Lane (UCC) 13 - John Hearty (Blackrock College) 12 - Glen Telford (Dungannon) 11 - Paul McKenzie (Loughborough University) 10 - Gareth Steenson (Queens University Belfast)

    9 - Tomas O'Leary (Cork Constitution) 1 - John Wickham (Clontarf) 2 - Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution) 3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins) 4 - David Gannon (Blackrock College) CAPTAIN 5 - Shane O'Connor (Cork Constitution) 6 - Brendan O'Connor (Cork Constitution) 7 - David O'Brien (Old Belvedere) 8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University)

    Replacements: 16 - Conor Geoghegan (UCD), 17 - Keith Doyle (UCD), 18 - Neil McComb (Dundee HSFP), 19 - Oisin Hennessy (Dungannon), 20 - Robbie Shaw (Wasps), 21 - Michael Glancy (Loughborough University), 22 - Breiffne O'Donnell (UL Bohemians).

    I thought Tommy Bowe was on this team too....if so there are 3 Lions on the team

    I don't actually think you can call O'Leary a Lion. He never got on the plane


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    LFC5Times wrote: »
    Gary Foley I think is the lad you are talking about, I remember him getting rave reviews at Junior Cup.

    The last I heard he was playing with Seapoint - who would be alot more attractive a team to play for now that they are playing AIL and up around the top of Div 3.

    He spent a year in the Academy and was let go when he was dropped from the Ireland 20s. He did a pretty hard course in college I believe so gave up on becoming a professional after that. He pretty much gave up the ghost at 19 when most haven't even got an academy shot which is a pity. I'm not sure if he even plays for Seapoint anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Happyhouse22


    Came across this thread after reading about Castletroy’s 2008 senior cup winning team . Was wondering what happened to Diarmuid McCarthy… seems like people were also wondering twelve years ago :)

    Anyway not sure if old threads can still be bumped up but thought people would be interested in reading some of this content, interesting to see how the general consensus on Earls shifted over the years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 JD94


    I ran into him on the way home from a night out. He was sleeping rough and has had a difficult couple of years, yet he was a tremendously nice person. It was a pretty sobering moment for me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    The 2008 castletroy semi final and finals are available in full on YouTube (guest appearances from O’Mahoney and zebo). Tremendously talented guy, can certainly see why there was so much talk about him. I’m surprised his coaches played him at 12, usually at that level guys with speed and running ability like his are pushed further out. This is neither here nor there, but Munster’s inability to produce centres probably added to his story over the years. Don’t think there’s been a missed opportunity over the years quite like it.

    I remember reading he started training with Munster and playing again, I have no idea about what happened him, but that at least indicated to me that he was in a much better place thankfully.



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