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Promising Players who Disappeared

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    The most naturally gifted out half this country has ever seen, according to reports in the Irish Times. If only he wasn't, like, so good looking and sh1t?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    MG wrote: »
    What ever happened to that fella Ross O'Carroll Kelly?

    Can be found here under a half dozen different usernames ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    thebaz wrote: »
    Players not making or fulfilling expected potential is just the nature of sport - I remember a good few years ago when Simon Geoghan started, a scrum half made his debut as captain of Ireland, after a year never heard off again -

    Ah yes. Rob Saunders. The man that cost us the 1991 World Cup Semifinal against Australia by kicking the ball straight back to the Aussies after we had taken the lead with about two minutes to go.

    He played for London Irish for a while after that but retired young.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    I think the all time side was picked on their performances while in the school, so Gibney was always going to be selected. Some great players (2 Lions) were selected in the International XV despite not making the School XV, which says it all about the greatness of the school's rugby team through the years

    The two sides:

    Blackrock College (SCT XV)
    Hugo MacNeill, Niall Brophy, Brian O'Driscoll, Brendan Mullin, Luke Fitzgerald, Mick Kelly, Ciaran Scally, Justin Lennon, Harry Harbison, Finbarr Griffin, Victor Costello, Neil Francis, Don Roe Kissane, Barry Gibney, Brian McLoughlin

    Blackrock College (International XV)
    Hugo MacNeill, Jack Arigho, Brian O'Driscoll, Larry McMahon, Niall Brophy, Paul Murray, John Quirke, Paul Flavin, Shane Byrne, Job Langbroek, Leo Cullen, Neil Francis, Fergus Slattery, Noel Turley, Victor Costello



    That's the best Blacrock College international team of all time!!!! That is BULL****!! If ever you want a stereotypical example of upper class snobbery, good-old-boy solidarity and cliqueishness rather than merit influencing decisions look no further than Noel Turley and Johnny Quirke making that side. They won a total of four caps BETWEEN THEM!

    Each made their international debut in 1962 in Twickenham. They were two of NINE new caps that day, one that has passed into infamy in the history of the Irish national team. They were slaughtered 16-0, four tries to nothing. That was a big score by the standards of the time when test matches tended to have results like 9-6 or 12-3.


    The game is remembered because some of those greenhorns went on to great things. Four of them became Lions (Willie John McBride, Ray McLoughlin, Mick Hipwell and Ray Hunter.) with the first two of those among the game's legends.

    As against that, three of that Twickenham side never played for Ireland again: Jimmy Dick at hooker, Gerry L'Estrange on the wing and Turley at flanker.

    Dick was only there because the regular hooker Ronnie Dawson was injured. I am reliably informed that L'Estrange would regularly make the team, cruelly compiled though never published by the sports writers of a leading national newspaper, of the worst players ever to play for Ireland. In fairness, he had broken his hand early on that day and as no substitutes were allowed in those days he had to play on.

    Quirke won two more caps against Scotland: one that season and one in 1968. I was quite surprised to see his final appearance featured in a DVD of "Ireland's greatest rugby victories of the TV age". It was a non descript Five Nations match in Dublin with little at stake but much was made of Quirke's break to set up the winning try. Why was this featured while other great matches, such as Ireland winning a test series in australia in 1979, were ignored?

    Perhaps George Hook letting it slip that Quirke was now a High Court Judge had something to do with it. As has his inclusion on this side, perhaps?

    Turley, is or was a teacher at Blackrock College. Perhaps that has more clout in his being named on the team ahead of a true legend like Willie Duggan, who played on the best Lions pack ever to tour New Zealand in 1977. Although they lost the test series, the Lions forwards tore the All Blacks to shreds, and Duggan was one of only two to make all four tests.

    But then he's only a greasy-handed electrician from Kilkenny.

    Maybe I'm doing Turley wrong. I've only ever heard of him because of the notoriety of the 1962 Twickenham match. Maybe he was better than Duggan. And maybe Quirke was the best scrum half Blackrock ever produced. But I have my doubts.

    What the hell. It's only an old-school tie circle jerk anyway. What am I getting so het up for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Hate Rock much?

    Anyone whose played internationally was a good player. Might not be great, but certainly good. THis is a school we're talking about. My old school has produced no Ireland internationals. Doubt we'd be offended by recognising one if we'd had one.

    And Noel Turley's a nice guy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Hate Rock much?

    Anyone whose played internationally was a good player. Might not be great, but certainly good. THis is a school we're talking about. My old school has produced no Ireland internationals. Doubt we'd be offended by recognising one if we'd had one.

    And Noel Turley's a nice guy.

    You went to Michaels ye? Did K Gleeson not go there for a few years in primary school before going to OZ? Anyway I'm sure there's a few internationals who went to the old Michaels until Junior Cert and onto Rock you can claim, just like all those cups too;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Just browsing over the Rock teams there, really underlines just how important they have been and schools rugby has been in Irish rugby. What would have happened if hurling had become the sport of choice there like apparently it was for a period in the younger years of the College, Irish rugby owes a debt to the place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭magotch07


    themont85 wrote: »
    Just browsing over the Rock teams there, really underlines just how important they have been and schools rugby has been in Irish rugby. What would have happened if hurling had become the sport of choice there like apparently it was for a period in the younger years of the College, Irish rugby owes a debt to the place.

    have to say i would agree with this they have developed the schools game in leinster to the extent that most schools play catch up with them obviously the belvos, michaels and nure have great rugby traditions and more often then not produce fairly good teams:) but Rock have always lead the pack, every school wants to beat rock having played against them in school it was always the biggest game of the season when you went to rock to try and beat them on their patch :)


    on another point the terenure team that won the 2003 SCT had some great individuals did any of these go on to further their rugby career or wat happened them:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭RugbyFanatic


    magotch07 wrote: »
    have to say i would agree with this they have developed the schools game in leinster to the extent that most schools play catch up with them obviously the belvos, michaels and nure have great rugby traditions


    Might want to check that one.

    Blackrock, Belvedere, Terenure, St. Marys, Castleknock have the great rugby traditions, Micheals not so much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭magotch07


    Might want to check that one.

    Blackrock, Belvedere, Terenure, St. Marys, Castleknock have the great rugby traditions, Micheals not so much.

    my apoligies but for as long as i was in school Micheals where always there or there abouts maybe not for 100 years like Nure but in the last 20 years they have been competitive ....i would agree i left out St Marys and Castleknock not on purpose just making a point


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    themont85 wrote: »
    You went to Michaels ye? Did K Gleeson not go there for a few years in primary school before going to OZ? Anyway I'm sure there's a few internationals who went to the old Michaels until Junior Cert and onto Rock you can claim, just like all those cups too;)
    Gleeson did actually alright. And yeah, plenty of Rock boys went to Michaels and Marys before heading onto Rock back in the day.
    Might want to check that one.

    Blackrock, Belvedere, Terenure, St. Marys, Castleknock have the great rugby traditions, Micheals not so much.

    Ah Michaels isn't that bad. Might have less Senior Cups than Andrews but we're meant to be a big enough school these days. People always mention Michaels as a traditional powerhouse because of recent success and not enough knowledge of the various schools to actually know the real powerhouses. Certainly over the last decade Michaels have been strong enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭little173


    Ah yes. Rob Saunders. The man that cost us the 1991 World Cup Semifinal against Australia by kicking the ball straight back to the Aussies after we had taken the lead with about two minutes to go.

    He played for London Irish for a while after that but retired young.

    Yes!! One of the worst kicks in an Irish Jersey, gave them a lineout on our 22, Lynagh wrap around, rest is history....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man



    Anyone whose played internationally was a good player. Might not be great, but certainly good.


    Not disputing that. But this was supposed to be the best International team made up of ex Rock players.

    And Noel Turley's a nice guy.

    I'm sure he is. But was he a better international flanker than Mick Doyle or Willie Duggan? Both of whom played for Blackrock. And Ireland. And the Lions.


    I know Duggan was normally a Number Eight, but he won a few caps on the flank. There was an argument at the time that he should have played more as a tight blind side flanker and somebody else take on the more playmaking role of Number Eight.

    Regardless, he was a complete legend and how he could be left off the team in place of a one-cap wonder just smacks of cliqueishness to me.

    As for the scrum half. Looking through my records I can only detect Alain Rolland as another Blackrock College scrum half who was capped by Ireland and he only won three caps as well, same as Quirke. So maybe that selection is more justified.

    Maybe if they included a list of the best referees....:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭LFC5Times


    Eamonn Travers - Terenure College centre. Think he was the most capped Irish Schoolboy of all time.

    Was of the same vintage as the Rock Dream Team and would have walked into it.

    Rated by John McClean as one of the best players he had ever seen.

    Never really played after school due to injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Gleeson did actually alright. And yeah, plenty of Rock boys went to Michaels and Marys before heading onto Rock back in the day.


    Ah Michaels isn't that bad. Might have less Senior Cups than Andrews but we're meant to be a big enough school these days. People always mention Michaels as a traditional powerhouse because of recent success and not enough knowledge of the various schools to actually know the real powerhouses. Certainly over the last decade Michaels have been strong enough.
    Michaels is only about 60 years old, a drop in the ocean compared to most of the big rugby schools. I think rock have more SCT victories than Michaels have years in the competition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Not disputing that. But this was supposed to be the best International team made up of ex Rock players.




    I'm sure he is. But was he a better international flanker than Mick Doyle or Willie Duggan? Both of whom played for Blackrock. And Ireland. And the Lions.


    I know Duggan was normally a Number Eight, but he won a few caps on the flank. There was an argument at the time that he should have played more as a tight blind side flanker and somebody else take on the more playmaking role of Number Eight.

    Regardless, he was a complete legend and how he could be left off the team in place of a one-cap wonder just smacks of cliqueishness to me.

    As for the scrum half. Looking through my records I can only detect Alain Rolland as another Blackrock College scrum half who was capped by Ireland and he only won three caps as well, same as Quirke. So maybe that selection is more justified.

    Maybe if they included a list of the best referees....:)
    I really 100% do not have any major opinions on the Rock all time best XV. :p
    Sangre wrote: »
    Michaels is only about 60 years old, a drop in the ocean compared to most of the big rugby schools. I think rock have more SCT victories than Michaels have years in the competition.
    Indeed. But don't forget we didn't even play Leaving Cert classes until the 70s. I think. Been a while since I darkened the doors of the place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 bacon bites


    He opted out of playing after EOS overlooked him for O'Gara
    Ross could do far worse than lace up his boots and let Deccie know he's available given ROG's form this weather. What would that book be called?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    me :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭Ceartgoleor


    Not disputing that. But this was supposed to be the best International team made up of ex Rock players.




    I'm sure he is. But was he a better international flanker than Mick Doyle or Willie Duggan? Both of whom played for Blackrock. And Ireland. And the Lions.


    I know Duggan was normally a Number Eight, but he won a few caps on the flank. There was an argument at the time that he should have played more as a tight blind side flanker and somebody else take on the more playmaking role of Number Eight.

    Regardless, he was a complete legend and how he could be left off the team in place of a one-cap wonder just smacks of cliqueishness to me.

    As for the scrum half. Looking through my records I can only detect Alain Rolland as another Blackrock College scrum half who was capped by Ireland and he only won three caps as well, same as Quirke. So maybe that selection is more justified.

    Maybe if they included a list of the best referees....:)

    Mick Doyle went to Newbridge, he may have played for Blackrock the club, but thats not relevant to the school selections. Willie Duggan did play for Blackrock College RFC, but didn't attend the school either so neither are eligible for the above sides.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Mick Doyle went to Newbridge, he may have played for Blackrock the club, but thats not relevant to the school selections. Willie Duggan did play for Blackrock College RFC, but didn't attend the school either so neither are eligible for the above sides.
    They should rename you Mars man because this guy just kicked you in the nuts.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭RugbyFanatic


    ouch


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 42 hiney


    Conor Gildea Terenure College - Irish n Leinster Schools Out Half ahead of Jonny Sexton . He gave up rugby after that young ulster flanker died on the pitch in the under 19 world cup in South Africa . Started playing again last year and is regaining some form . Its a shame he stopped playing for those few years as he could have been exceptional. He was a member of that Terenure Sct 03


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    Ciaran Scally was the SH.
    He was apparently the best scrum half the country has seen at schools level.
    hiney wrote: »
    Conor Gildea Terenure College - Irish n Leinster Schools Out Half ahead of Jonny Sexton . He gave up rugby after that young ulster flanker died on the pitch in the under 19 world cup in South Africa . Started playing again last year and is regaining some form . Its a shame he stopped playing for those few years as he could have been exceptional. He was a member of that Terenure Sct 03
    Thats not true I played against Gildea in 20's, I remember it because he and fergus McFadden got sent off after Fergus punched him when Gildea spat on him!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 42 hiney


    Yes you may have played against him at 20s but i know that he gave up soon after that incident in South Africa and went to live in Aus.

    Interesting looking at the Irish Schools team in August 2004 that played against their aussie counterparts.
    At the team meeting Barney announced the team to play v Australian Schools on Thursday 26th @12-30pm at Vikings RFC in Canberra. 15. Rob Kearney 14. Fionn Carr 13. Tom Gleeson 12. Darren Cave 11. Peter Shallow 10. Conor Gildea 9. Duncan Williams 1. Gary Walsh 2. Gavin O'Meara 3. Gary Mitchell 4. Billy Holland 5. Devin Toner 6. Michael Essex 7. Diarmuid Laffan (Captain) 8. David Pollock Subs Darragh Hurley Sean Cronin Paul Collins Jamie Cornett Barry O'Mahoney Joe Burns Conan Doyle Rory Drysdale

    good few pros in there


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭magotch07


    hiney wrote: »
    Conor Gildea Terenure College - Irish n Leinster Schools Out Half ahead of Jonny Sexton . He gave up rugby after that young ulster flanker died on the pitch in the under 19 world cup in South Africa . Started playing again last year and is regaining some form . Its a shame he stopped playing for those few years as he could have been exceptional. He was a member of that Terenure Sct 03

    a complete waste of talent never had the mentality or determenation to make it outside of school so like alot of lads i know pissed the next 4 away in college


    a shame really


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 bosco101


    I played tag against Ross McCarron the other day so doubt he's up to much rugby-wise, heard he plays AIL with Lansdowne


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Promising players who disappeared?
    Tim Robbins - the idiot became a ref.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Lots of weird stuff on this thread...as for the big Leinster rugby schools, it's the big 5: Belvedere, Blackrock, Clongowes, St. Mary's & Terenure. Schools with big rugby traditions in Leinster also include Castleknock College, CBC Monkstown, Newbridge College, Pres Bray, Roscrea College (really a Munster school but relocated to Kildare iirc), St. Michaels ... to name but a few.

    As for the Blackrock dream team, I don't think O'Driscoll would come anywhere near the blackrock 13 jersey throughout the history of the school based on his schools rugby performance, considering he wasn't even a first choice 13 and famously was dropped from the senior cup team and he doesn't have a senior cup winners medal.

    I'm a Belvo man myself, and I am disgusted to see Niall Francis named on any dream team other than fat lazy player turns into fat lazy hack.

    I think we'll see less and less great schools players going off the radar these days thanks to the increased funding, sucsess and size of the academies. If they're a big schools player nowadays, they'll get their shot at senior provincial rugby. If they don't make it, it'll be because they just weren't good enough at senior level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭philipm


    bosco101 wrote: »
    I played tag against Ross McCarron the other day so doubt he's up to much rugby-wise, heard he plays AIL with Lansdowne

    If he still plays AIL with Landsdowne he must be still promising and it is still a pretty good standard. They have some excellent teams.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Roscrea College (really a Munster school but relocated to Kildare iirc)

    Cistercian College Roscrea has its address in Tipperary,but the rugby pitches are located in Offaly and as a recent graduate i take real offence to that.If your gonna insult us please get your facts right.We have also been in this competition for over 100 years so have just as much right to be in it as any other!


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