News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

pixbyjohn

Greystones Harbour 3rd. Jan 2013 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

January 3rd. 2013

20130103-DSC_4943 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Maudi

pixbyjohn wrote: »

January 3rd. 2013

20130103-DSC_4943 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

background .natural beautiful.
foreground.manmade.squalor.

Cookie_Monster

Maudi wrote: »

foreground.manmade.squalor.

looks as **** as it always has to be honest :pac:

bido

Just looking at the view of the harbour as you drive down windgates to-day, it is just a mess all you see is concrete no style. would have been better if it had been left alone or a smaller scale with a better design than mass concrete everywhere.:mad::mad:

LifeBeginsAt40

bido wrote: »

Just looking at the view of the harbour as you drive down windgates to-day, it is just a mess all you see is concrete no style. would have been better if it had been left alone or a smaller scale with a better design than mass concrete everywhere.:mad::mad:

Yep, I often think the same. It's fugly for sure. Not a lot you can do with massive lumps of cast concrete to stop it looking like massive lumps of cast concrete.

Sadly I wasn't living here at the time of public consultation. I'd have loved to have seen the artist impression of the completed project. Did they draw, with attention to detail, massive white lumps of concrete that dazzle aircraft on approach to Dublin when the sun is out?

recedite

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

public consultation

There was a big public meeting held, a vote was taken, the people rejected it, and it went ahead anyway.

Blanchflower

recedite wrote: »

There was a big public meeting held, a vote was taken, the people rejected it, and it went ahead anyway.

And over 10,000 submissions were made to An Bord Pleanala against this development which was totally ignored by them. :mad:

Maudi

bido wrote: »

Just looking at the view of the harbour as you drive down windgates to-day, it is just a mess all you see is concrete no style. would have been better if it had been left alone or a smaller scale with a better design than mass concrete everywhere.:mad::mad:

i was talkin to a man who has lived for years just around the bend on that rd.facing the sea..anyway after a long conversation he finished by saying how he used to come out his gate for a walk heading for joe sweeneys he would take a deep breath and starting at brayhead take in the view sweeping left to the fields and hills in the distance..now he said because of the harbour i cant bear to look up..i just look at the path when i walk....

Fiachra2

The awfullness of it is beyond dispute. Whats really bad is the fact that this is not a crisis as far as many public representatives are concerned. Any reasonable person would expect this to be item no1 on the agenda of all meetings of public representatives and that they would be exploring every avenue to force the County Manager to sort this out. Instead many of them act as if it was a work in progress which will be resolved soon.
Incidentally dont forget the medical center was to start in January and as you can seek work is steamiong ahead.

The Durutti Column

Blanchflower wrote: »

And over 10,000 submissions were made to An Bord Pleanala against this development which was totally ignored by them. :mad:

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Greystones Harbour 2005 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Thank you, Pixy, for a photo reminding us that once we had a harbour which, no matter how dilapidated, actually could be used and was a source of fun and pleasure for the community, and especially our children.

No more, and I'm afraid never will be.

By ignoring the expressed wishes of the community (a majority of the adult population of the town objected to this development), WCC and Bord Pleanala have forced a disastrous white elephant on us.

I am like the guy who lives nearby — I just don't look at it anymore and avoid the harbour area when I can. Everything about it, including and especially how it came to be, is appalling.

LifeBeginsAt40

Blanchflower wrote: »

And over 10,000 submissions were made to An Bord Pleanala against this development which was totally ignored by them. :mad:

Well it's come back and bitten them on the backside hard! So sad

aynneone

Like a few mentioned above, I sadly for my sanity have to employ the advoidance technique.. Being a non driver, I used to walk with my German Shepherd 5 out of 7 days, hail rain or snow from Ennis Lane, down the town, fill up my rucksack from the local shops, and walk home mostly along the beach. Now I cannot bear to walk that way at all....and if I HAVE to, like previous people I keep my head down, it just makes me too sad. I now get the bus into Bray when I need to do shopping during the week.

Taltos

I used to love going out there during walks, didn't care if it was a Summer's day or a Winter storm - actually the storms were great fun - dodging the waves (won't say more on what some of us used to do those days, though am sure Swanner or Fiachra2 will remember). Since I moved back a few years ago I have only been there twice, once was to sell my kayak.

In terms of being a usable harbour, that all started to go downhill when the kish was added to the end (before my time). All I have as reference are the old photos and videos of the swimming gala's that could be held there. In my day we could swim off the high steps or jump in without fear of hitting the sand, now the eels were a different story. Or some nutters jumping off the high wall, one of my brothers did this approaching low tide and failed to clear the base fully, back of his calves were pumping blood when he climbed back up. Even remember one poor lad called Kerry being pushed in by a good friend Ciaran at the steps - just before he hit the water we all heard "I can't swim!!!" Ciaran moved pretty sharpish to follow him in and help him out.

Either way, what can we do about it now?

Some of what I would like to see
1. Proper landscaping
2. No development, let's make it a park, an area where visitors and locals can come to play and enjoy. Think of Bray seafront in it's hayday. Simple changes - seating areas, shower facilities - open air for safety, a skateboard park for the kids. Don't get me wrong can't stand skateboarding - but there is sufficient area for one and thinking back to when I was a kid in Greystones was always up to something.
3. Encourage the development of the existing facilities - Sweeney's, Beach House, Dan's, the new cafe.
4. Open up the entry to the cliff walk - not mentioning the unmentionable erosion for now.
5. Install some simple signage - wildlife to view, photos of Greystones past, types of fish in the area, changes in sea current with the seasons, information on the town, directions to the library, garda station, everything a new visitor to the town needs to orientate themselves.
6. Maintenance, ensure there is frequent cleanup of waste, maybe by the skateboard park put in a mural wall, that say twice a year is whitewashed to allow for new art.
7. Bring back the anchor or some other piece that reminds us all of our fishing heritage in the town (village).
8. Moorings - ok sell a few, allow others to be rented per use, donate a few to be managed by a committee for some of the older town members who may not be able to afford moorings - similar to the artisan golf membership but targetted to those that really need the help. Leave some free for day visitors or weekend tourists.
9. Let's start to put plans in place for dealing with the current construction, seem to remember there were concerns over the type of steel used but not sure, but if this is the case, let's start planning for it now instead of when issues arise in the future.

Really do miss the old one, and really would have preferred to seeing the kish being removed.

Maudi

Taltos wrote: »

I used to love going out there during walks, didn't care if it was a Summer's day or a Winter storm - actually the storms were great fun - dodging the waves (won't say more on what some of us used to do those days, though am sure Swanner or Fiachra2 will remember). Since I moved back a few years ago I have only been there twice, once was to sell my kayak.

In terms of being a usable harbour, that all started to go downhill when the kish was added to the end (before my time). All I have as reference are the old photos and videos of the swimming gala's that could be held there. In my day we could swim off the high steps or jump in without fear of hitting the sand, now the eels were a different story. Or some nutters jumping off the high wall, one of my brothers did this approaching low tide and failed to clear the base fully, back of his calves were pumping blood when he climbed back up. Even remember one poor lad called Kerry being pushed in by a good friend Ciaran at the steps - just before he hit the water we all heard "I can't swim!!!" Ciaran moved pretty sharpish to follow him in and help him out.

Either way, what can we do about it now?

Some of what I would like to see
1. Proper landscaping
2. No development, let's make it a park, an area where visitors and locals can come to play and enjoy. Think of Bray seafront in it's hayday. Simple changes - seating areas, shower facilities - open air for safety, a skateboard park for the kids. Don't get me wrong can't stand skateboarding - but there is sufficient area for one and thinking back to when I was a kid in Greystones was always up to something.
3. Encourage the development of the existing facilities - Sweeney's, Beach House, Dan's, the new cafe.
4. Open up the entry to the cliff walk - not mentioning the unmentionable erosion for now.
5. Install some simple signage - wildlife to view, photos of Greystones past, types of fish in the area, changes in sea current with the seasons, information on the town, directions to the library, garda station, everything a new visitor to the town needs to orientate themselves.
6. Maintenance, ensure there is frequent cleanup of waste, maybe by the skateboard park put in a mural wall, that say twice a year is whitewashed to allow for new art.
7. Bring back the anchor or some other piece that reminds us all of our fishing heritage in the town (village).
8. Moorings - ok sell a few, allow others to be rented per use, donate a few to be managed by a committee for some of the older town members who may not be able to afford moorings - similar to the artisan golf membership but targetted to those that really need the help. Leave some free for day visitors or weekend tourists.
9. Let's start to put plans in place for dealing with the current construction, seem to remember there were concerns over the type of steel used but not sure, but if this is the case, let's start planning for it now instead of when issues arise in the future.

Really do miss the old one, and really would have preferred to seeing the kish being removed.

all very good.i like number seven although its a shame on those responsible that we Dont have any fishing industry at the harbour at all..the amount of potential in our seas for employment yet its hardly looked at..and a fishing villiage like greystones lying unused..shameful

Blandpebbles

New paths, narrower roads and less parking spaces... Good job we got those before we got a nice harbour.

Jimjay

Blandpebbles wrote: »

New paths, narrower roads and less parking spaces... Good job we got those before we got a nice harbour.

To be fair there are loads of new spaces at the harbour and the road was way to wide for a one way street

karma_coma

Jimjay wrote: »

To be fair there are loads of new spaces at the harbour and the road was way to wide for a one way street

Exactly, will make the area much more enjoyable for walkers & cyclists! The whole town should be done like this!

Blandpebbles

Can't wait to see all the people walking 5 a breast. Heaven forbid anyone wants to drive there and sit in their cars and enjoy the view.

Cheeky Chops

Blandpebbles wrote: »

Can't wait to see all the people walking 5 a breast. Heaven forbid anyone wants to drive there and sit in their cars and enjoy the view.

They can park at the harbour and walk no? It's much safer with the widening of the pavement. If you have kids that tiny pavement was treacherous.

Blandpebbles if you are the kind that drives to a view (with a packed lunch) and sits in the car moaning then you still can park up at the harbour where the great unwashed will not bother you.

pixbyjohn

There is going to be lots of angry people on the seafront during the Summer Sundays when the Saint David's car boot sale is on. Considering in the past cars were parked on both sides of the road I wonder what way will they park this year and will the parking be monitored by the authorities and more importantly will traffic regulations be enforced? I understand Blandpebbles comment regarding how people have used the seafront to sit in their cars and enjoy the view whilst reading the paper, having a bite to eat or simply just sitting and watching the world go by. There are lots of visitors to the area who would not really be able to walk far from the Harbour to enjoy the seafront.

Annasopra

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

They can park at the harbour and walk no? It's much safer with the widening of the pavement. If you have kids that tiny pavement was treacherous.

Blandpebbles if you are the kind that drives to a view (with a packed lunch) and sits in the car moaning then you still can park up at the harbour where the great unwashed will not bother you.

What's wrong with people just wanting to sit in their car and enjoy the view? I've seen lots of people who probably wouldn't be able to walk up from the harbour doing that

Fiachra2

And if they park at the harbour there is certainly no view! Unless of course you like concrete walls, fencing and hoardings. (and apparently therere are those who do!)
However we may be digressing a bit here.

loyatemu

big carpark beside the station, 1 minutes walk from St. Davids and usually empty on a Sunday.

LifeBeginsAt40

This is an interesting side topic.....I don't drive at the moment, lack of funds = lack of car. I do however, walk to the harbour often with my other half and our two children. 5 & 6 yr olds.

I love parking by a view and just eating my lunch, more so in Ireland as it's normally peeing down with rain. I also like walking on pavements wide enough to avoid the dog poo and oncoming people traffic.

It's all a compromise and where as once the car ruled king, these days the pedestrian and cyclist is beginning to rule. A sensible answer would be decent shelters for people to sit in and admire the view, but of course you will then have people moaning about blocked view and anyway there isn't really the space.

I don't have an answer, but I do like wider pavements and am lucky to have use of my legs so walking from my house or car park is not an issue. Sitting in the open in a howling gale eating my lunch is.

Cheeky Chops

I was being facetious because BP winds me up with his contrary comments. Sorry.

Of course it is nice for people to sit and quietly watch the world go by but I think the widening of the pavement is more essential from a safety aspect.

The Durutti Column

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I was being facetious because BP winds me up with his contrary comments. Sorry.

Of course it is nice for people to sit and quietly watch the world go by but I think the widening of the pavement is more essential from a safety aspect.

Here's a question: was there any public consultation about this scheme from Marine Road to St David's? Did they even consult the school?

And what of the climate impact (admittedly small)? It looks like the 'long acre' of grass edging between path and railings is gone for good, to be replaced by tarmac. That's a small but significant removal of carbon storage when we should be doing everything to increase the ability to store carbon and create carbon sinks. Was the environment department of WCC involved in the design? Or, as usual, was it just the engineers?

And what about being kid-friendly? Kids prefer to romp on grass, plus it's safer.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

(Thank you, Joanie...)

thecommander

The Durutti Column wrote: »

And what of the climate impact (admittedly small)? )

Really clutching at straws there.

The Durutti Column

thecommander wrote: »

And what of the climate impact (admittedly small)? )

Really clutching at straws there.

Not entirely. I mentioned it because I recall reading, some time back, a piece about the negative climate effect of people laying block to cover their front gardens. The effect was surprisingly high, though I can't recall the detail.

Many city municipalities now appeal to residents NOT to cover over lawns, etc., precisely for this reason. I find it disappointing that such a notion does not seem to have occurred to the geniuses at WCC. For once, it would have been nice to perceive a little joined-up thinking instead of the mindless application of a routine engineering approach.

Take a look here: http://www.buffaloturf.com.au/our-turf-and-the-environment.html

From the site:

Lawns add oxygen to the atmosphere - Like any plant, grass absorbs carbon dioxide and release oxygen. The average yard of turf absorbs carbon dioxide, capturing carbon and reducing our greatest greenhouse gas and produces enough oxygen for a family of 4.

Lawns keep your home cooler - On a hot day stand in the garden and then stand on lawn; you will notice the cooling effect of your lawn. It has been estimated that the cooling effect of an average size lawn is equal to about 9 tons of air conditioning.

Same applies to covering any grassed area with a solid surface — it's well acknowledged that roads, motorways etc add to climate warming in this way. The seafront is a small area, but the principle is the same. And to apply the old Kantian imperative — "If everyone did it..."

LifeBeginsAt40

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Not entirely. I mentioned it because I recall reading, some time back, a piece about the negative climate effect of people laying block to cover their front gardens. The effect was surprisingly high, though I can't recall the detail.

Many city municipalities now appeal to residents NOT to cover over lawns, etc., precisely for this reason. I find it disappointing that such a notion does not seem to have occurred to the geniuses at WCC. For once, it would have been nice to perceive a little joined-up thinking instead of the mindless application of a routine engineering approach.

Yep, in the UK many local councils now demand by law that surface water drains away on your own land and not into the sewers.

As mentioned above the covering of land with man made material causes water run off problems. You cannot simply concrete over your lawn in the UK without meeting water run off regulations.

Planning permission

Specific rules apply for householders wanting to pave over their front gardens.

You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally.

If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area.

Does the same apply in Ireland and to commercial developments?