Cheating in golf

ShriekingSheet

Daithio9 wrote: »

Firstly sheet it seems strange to me that you joined the discussion quite late and decided to take the side of some one who admitted to cheating. .

All I did was say to the chap "here's why you're wrong". I find it better than saying "how do you sleep at night?". And funnily enough...

Daithio9 wrote: »

he seems to realise the error of his ways.

Daithio9 wrote: »

Lastly (just to clear things up) I never claimed that all of the rules are black and white, in fact I'd say you'd need a masters at law to interpret some of the rules and yes many are grey, I was referring to the rule about advice( in particular club selection) with the comment "black and white", I mean ffs c'mon it's a simple rule and one that comes up alot and if you couldn't see that or it went over your head I feel sorry for you..

So you don't see the confusion for someone new to the game being told "you can look in the bag and see what he hit, but you can't ask him"? It's a simple instruction, sure, but people tend not to adhere to instructions that seem, on the face of it, pointless.

So, if you're done with having a pop at me and whoever else, can we have debate something that'll be actually interesting to read? So, to go back to the points I raised before, what are your thoughts on this...

Am I wrong not to hide the sole of my iron after I've hit? Am I wrong to leave a ball behind the hole when a fellow competitor is chipping on? Am I wrong to avoid chit-chat in a match when I know my opponent is less comfortable and used to a quiet environment?

All of the above is within the rules, but certainly can help or hinder a guy in some way. Is this unfair?

As you can see, there are a number of actions you can get away with, without breaking the rules. Where a striker drags a leg into an keeper to make contact before going down, he is within the rules, yet doing something unfair. So no, golf isn't any different because even if you are your own referee, you still can't penalise yourself for not breaking any rules.

Discuss.

heavyballs

i'm not a regular porter on the forum but Daithi has a bit of a hot head.Gets a bit insulting at the drop of a hat.
My guess is he's approx 15,puberty is kicking in big style but the ladies have no interest due to his increasingly bad acne problem,hence the hot head.

Daithio9

heavyballs wrote: »

i'm not a regular porter on the forum but Daithi has a bit of a hot head.Gets a bit insulting at the drop of a hat.
My guess is he's approx 15,puberty is kicking in big style but the ladies have no interest due to his increasingly bad acne problem,hence the hot head.

Or perhaps a low tolerance for BS.

Daithio9

If this thread has done nothing else, it has at least highlighted how little people know about the rules, especially those of us who play regularly.
Most of what you claim in your hypothectical scenario isn't so far removed from what happens every sunday in club competitions across the country(which btw doesn't make it okay for everyone to do it) and despite what you believe with regard to it not been covered by the rules or against the rules, in fact it is covered, and the penalty can be as severe as been banned from golf. In saying that I never heard of anyone or any situation where someone has been reported or been dealt with by any committee.

As aside imo I believe anyone who thinks he's helping a friend or fellow competitor by solely focusing on their game when they have a "score going" is in fact adding to the pressure and is more destructive then you may think, you'd serve your playing partner way better if you just continued to play as normal.

G1032

Have been reading through the thread this morning and it's very interesting. The amount of people who clearly have no clue of the rules is incredible. How many posts here have said 'I didn't know that you can't give advice'. Unreal. You didn't know because you have never bothered to read the rules. There is no excuse for it. It's just pure ignorance. Whether you play competitive golf or not you should play by and know the rules ( at least the one that crop up time and again - water hazards, GUR, lost ball, Out of Bounds ).
Carry a rule book in your bag. It'd free, doesn't take up much space and it's not that heavy. And use the bloody thing.

ANXIOUS

Shrieking sheet, how do you mean that you leave a ball behind the hole?

f22

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Shrek, how do you mean that you leave a ball behind the hole?

You can leave your ball unmarked on the green if your fellow competitor is still off the green, unless requested to mark the ball. If it's behind the hole it could stop your competitors ball. However, you cannot request a ball to be left unmarked.

Blunder

if another player is off the green and playing onto it and you have already played on to behind the hole. its fairly common practise to leave it there until all players have played on or until a player deems it to be in their way and want it marked.

ANXIOUS

Thanks for clearing that up for me, and I would be correctcin saying that if the ball off the green hit your ball. You'd replace it to the original position?

GreeBo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Am I wrong not to hide the sole of my iron after I've hit? Am I wrong to leave a ball behind the hole when a fellow competitor is chipping on? Am I wrong to avoid chit-chat in a match when I know my opponent is less comfortable and used to a quiet environment?

All of the above is within the rules, but certainly can help or hinder a guy in some way. Is this unfair?

There are occasions where you can do something that gives a fellow competitor a possible advantage, but he cannot ask you to do it.

i.e you can leave your ball, but he cannot ask you to leave it.
He can look at your clue but cannot ask you to look at it.

G1032

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up for me, and I would be correctcin saying that if the ball off the green hit your ball. You'd replace it to the original position?

Yes.
See link below
http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/rules_2008_2011.html

Mister Sifter

Yes, you'd replace it.

It's not just posters in this thread, club golfers in general don't know the basic rules of golf. Every game i play i seem to tell someone the rule for red and yellow stakes or dropping out of casual water or replacing a ball which has been hit by another on the green.

While the players are clearly ignorant to picking up the rule book, clubs also have to take some of the blame. Simple rules 'scenario' posters or notices in locker rooms etc would make a difference. Perhaps printouts of the basics would be helpful too. I'm also a firm believer that a basic rules test should be a requirement to getting a handicap/membership too.

PhilipMarlowe

Yes, once the player played from off the green and struck your ball then he plays his from where it came to rest but you'd replace your ball where it originally was.
It always applies that when your ball is at rest and is moved by another ball then you replace it to it's original position... there is no penalty (unless you were putting on the green and struck another ball).
You can't ask for a ball to be left behind the hole where it may act as a potential backstop.
However, if you don't ask and the other guy doesn't specifically offer to leave it there then you are in a grey(ish) area...
Rule 22 says that if you consider the ball may assist someone then you "may" lift it or play it (assuming it's on the green). The thing here is it doesn't say "must lift". If you are considered to have an agreement between competitors to assist then you are disqualified.

The thing is, there is a decision on the rules that goes a stage further.
Decision 22/7
Q. In stroke play, a competitor’s ball is in a position to assist the play of a fellow-competitor and the competitor is in a position to lift the ball under Rule 22-1 without delaying the fellow-competitor’s play. However, the competitor does not take any action to invoke the Rule. Would a Committee member be justified in intervening and requesting the competitor to invoke the Rule to protect himself and the rest of the field?
A. Yes. If the competitor were to object, there would be strong evidence of an agreement not to lift the ball for the purpose of assisting the fellow-competitor in breach of Rule 22-1. The Committee member would be justified in so advising the competitors involved and warning that failure to lift the ball would result in disqualification under Rule 22-1. (Revised)

My reading of this is that if I think that the ball may assist then I will go ahead and mark it.

Daithio9

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Yes, you'd replace it.

It's not just posters in this thread, club golfers in general don't know the basic rules of golf. Every game i play i seem to tell someone the rule for red and yellow stakes or dropping out of casual water or replacing a ball which has been hit by another on the green.

While the players are clearly ignorant to picking up the rule book, clubs also have to take some of the blame. Simple rules 'scenario' posters or notices in locker rooms etc would make a difference. Perhaps printouts of the basics would be helpful too. I'm also a firm believer that a basic rules test should be a requirement to getting a handicap/membership too.

+1
Afaik in Sweden and some other nordic countries you have to take 10 lessons(some of which cover the rules and etiquette) before your allowed play golf.

Mister Sifter

Daithio9 wrote: »

+1
Afaik in Sweden and some other nordic countries you have to take 10 lessons(some of which cover the rules and etiquette) before your allowed play golf.

I think that would maybe put many golfers off the game to be honest, but something should be put in place. It would be hugely beneficial to everyone in the long term.

thegen

May I make a suggestion?

Would it be beneficial to set up a sticky "Rules of Golf"?

This way simple things like Mister Sifter has pointed out could be posted and people who are not 100% could benefit from it.

You should always carry a rule book in your bag anyway.

Blunder

Daithio9 wrote: »

+1
Afaik in Sweden and some other nordic countries you have to take 10 lessons(some of which cover the rules and etiquette) before your allowed play golf.

Is that not for driving cars?

ridonkulous

Daithio9 wrote: »

+1
Afaik in Sweden and some other nordic countries you have to take 10 lessons(some of which cover the rules and etiquette) before your allowed play golf.

I know its happens in Germany and Spain aswell.

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I think that would maybe put many golfers off the game to be honest, but something should be put in place. It would be hugely beneficial to everyone in the long term.

I agree with this. I can't discuss about Germany but I know in Spain that golf is seen as the elitist sport and is considered a waste of water by many. However the 10 lessons minimum come at a great expense and golf is an expensive sport as it is. I really do believe this puts most people off the idea of taking up golf.

Tom Ghostwood

Maybe when a new member is playing their third round for handicap they should play it with a club appointed "rules & etiquette officer/member" & this member can give the new person pointers & advice on the rules & slow play etc.

Shannonsider

thegen wrote: »

May I make a suggestion?

Would it be beneficial to set up a sticky "Rules of Golf"?

This way simple things like Mister Sifter has pointed out could be posted and people who are not 100% could benefit from it.

You should always carry a rule book in your bag anyway.

Seconded.

I'm only really getting into the nitty gritty rules these days so I'd love if there was such a sticky.

G1032

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Yes, you'd replace it.

It's not just posters in this thread, club golfers in general don't know the basic rules of golf. Every game i play i seem to tell someone the rule for red and yellow stakes or dropping out of casual water or replacing a ball which has been hit by another on the green.

While the players are clearly ignorant to picking up the rule book, clubs also have to take some of the blame. Simple rules 'scenario' posters or notices in locker rooms etc would make a difference. Perhaps printouts of the basics would be helpful too. I'm also a firm believer that a basic rules test should be a requirement to getting a handicap/membership too.

We had a rules night at the beginning of the year in our club where they got a GUI ref to go through rules and answer any questions we had. But there was a poor turnout and as is usual with these kind of things those who did show up knew the rules anyway!!! I just don't understand the ignorance of it. Like people don't know basic things like what to do from an unplayable lie. It's unreal when you think about it.