Cheating in golf

PhilipMarlowe

The committee can make it a condition of the competition (restricting the use of a caddie) but it's not one I've been aware of in practice... well, it hasn't affected me anyway.

ridonkulous

I will openly admit to asking my friends/ well known playing partners what club they may have used on a hole (par 3 mainly) aslong as I feel I can get a decent amount of information regarding what club I should choose. Sometimes I outright ask them and other times I will look in their bags. Not that it makes much difference (although to me it is) I have only ever done this in my local club competitions where generally I know myself what club I am going to hit anyway. I honestly do not see it as a big deal. I know reading through this thread the general consensus seems to be that rules are rules and you can't just abide by the ones you want and ignore others and I agree in some respects but who here has ever crossed the road when the pedestrian light is red? Is that the same as drink driving for example?

semi rant over.

BombSquad

ridonkulous wrote: »

Sometimes I outright ask them and other times I will look in their bags. Not that it makes much difference

To me it does make a difference if you're avoiding water/bunkers due to club selection.

If,for you, it doesn't make a difference then don't cheat and don't do it.

ridonkulous

ridonkulous wrote: »

Not that it makes much difference

That was with reference to it being a club competition. Not anything else.

Daithio9

ridonkulous wrote: »

That was with reference to it being a club competition. Not anything else.

Oh that's grand so, what other rules do you decide to ignore in "club" competition.

ridonkulous

Daithio9 wrote: »

Oh that's grand so, what other rules do you decide to ignore in "club" competition.

None that I know of and I have a greater understanding and interpretation of the rules than most. I only ever really play club competitions with friends and I view them as a social round more than anything else but I abide by all the other rules. I mainly play the minimum amount of club competitions to keep me eligible for team competitions and for handicap requirements.

I honestly believe it is a rule that should be gotten rid of.

scout353

Genco wrote: »

Surprising to see that no one has as yet mentioned what I think is the most common form of cheating. I have yet to win a singles competition but have managed to get my handicap down over the years however the number of players I see winning fourballs on a regular basis in club competitions or corporate outings who shamelessly play off handicaps that facilitate them producing in excess of 40 points every time they play if they were to mark a card seems far too common. Personally I would rather see my game improving without winning anything rather than stoop to picking up prizes in such a manner however I often feel like I am in the minority in this regard.

Have to agree there - we have a few in our club and everyone talks about them but then they make the club teams and are out in cups and shields and everyone is telling them how great they are! Really annoys me!

Daithio9

ridonkulous wrote: »

None that I know of and I have a greater understanding and interpretation of the rules than most. I only ever really play club competitions with friends and I view them as a social round more than anything else but I abide by all the other rules. I mainly play the minimum amount of club competitions to keep me eligible for team competitions and for handicap requirements.

The statement above is very hard to believe when in an earlier post you compared breaking the rule on advice to crossing the road when the light is red, this shows you have little or no understanding of the core values and spirit of the rules.

ridonkulous wrote: »

I honestly believe it is a rule that should be gotten rid of.

If you feel that way about it then contact the RandA and outline your case for it to be changed, until then I'd advise you not to continue to knowingly cheat.

PhilipMarlowe

ridonkulous wrote: »

None that I know of and I have a greater understanding and interpretation of the rules than most. I only ever really play club competitions with friends and I view them as a social round more than anything else but I abide by all the other rules. I mainly play the minimum amount of club competitions to keep me eligible for team competitions and for handicap requirements.

I honestly believe it is a rule that should be gotten rid of.

Are you on a wind up mission or what?
You play in a minimum of competitions so you can maintain eligibility for interclub... but you knowingly sign for a wrong score in these competitions?
You are your own referee in golf (on all occasions). It might only be a poxy stableford competition off the forward tees on a Thursday but you still regulate yourself to protect the interest of every one else in the competition.
It's one of the alluring aspects of the game in my opinion.

I've effectively 4 putted because a ball I was about to tap in moved on the green about 2 millimetres... No-one else could have seen this happen. You might say it's a silly rule but it is the same rule for everyone (apparently). I saw it move after I addressed it, replaced it and tapped in for a 6. Anyone that wouldn't do the same... well, the mind boggles once again.

NITFBY

Playing in the semi final of our club matchplay once. I was 1 up playing 18. hit my second shot in bunker on right of green about 15 yards from the hole. Fella I was playing was at left side of green and as we walked up to hole it looked like his ball was in the fringe grass. Anyway I play a very good bunker shot to about 5 feet when I look over and my guy is about 3 foot on the green.

What can you do???? Its his word against mine...I hadnt seen from up close where his ball was but I had a fair idea he had moved it. I didnt say anything and proceeded to miss the putt and lost on 19th.

It bugged me as we walked back down 19 and to compound it this guy who I dont know came up to me and said he had been watching us on 18 and he told me the guy threw a marked on the green as I was taking my bunker shot. :mad:

One Cold Hand

scout353 wrote: »

Have to agree there - we have a few in our club and everyone talks about them but then they make the club teams and are out in cups and shields and everyone is telling them how great they are! Really annoys me!

Yeah i hate this also. The problem is it's pretty hard to prevent. When a guy is 3 under his handicap standing on the 18th, then hits it out of bounds, how do you prove he's managing his handicap?

There's lads like this in every club. I don't understand how someone would want to play off a higher handicap than they're capable of.

One Cold Hand

NITFBY wrote: »

Playing in the semi final of our club matchplay once. I was 1 up playing 18. hit my second shot in bunker on right of green about 15 yards from the hole. Fella I was playing was at left side of green and as we walked up to hole it looked like his ball was in the fringe grass. Anyway I play a very good bunker shot to about 5 feet when I look over and my guy is about 3 foot on the green.

What can you do???? Its his word against mine...I hadnt seen from up close where his ball was but I had a fair idea he had moved it. I didnt say anything and proceeded to miss the putt and lost on 19th.

It bugged me as we walked back down 19 and to compound it this guy who I dont know came up to me and said he had been watching us on 18 and he told me the guy threw a marked on the green as I was taking my bunker shot. :mad:

That's absolutely shocking. It's one thing to do it in a random thursday morning 9 hole stableford, but the semi final of the club matchplay? I hope you reported him. If someone else also saw it too, then it's a lot easier to prove, two peoples word against his.

ridonkulous

Daithio9 wrote: »

The statement above is very hard to believe when in an earlier post you compared breaking the rule on advice to crossing the road when the light is red, this shows you have little or no understanding of the core values and spirit of the rules.


If you feel that way about it then contact the RandA and outline your case for it to be changed, until then I'd advise you not to continue to knowingly cheat.

I was making a point based on the response from another poster who said that you cannot pick and choose which rules you follow. My point was that people do it all the time in their day to day lives. Nothing more.

ridonkulous

Licksy wrote: »

Are you on a wind up mission or what?
You play in a minimum of competitions so you can maintain eligibility for interclub... but you knowingly sign for a wrong score in these competitions?
You are your own referee in golf (on all occasions). It might only be a poxy stableford competition off the forward tees on a Thursday but you still regulate yourself to protect the interest of every one else in the competition.
It's one of the alluring aspects of the game in my opinion.

I've effectively 4 putted because a ball I was about to tap in moved on the green about 2 millimetres... No-one else could have seen this happen. You might say it's a silly rule but it is the same rule for everyone (apparently). I saw it move after I addressed it, replaced it and tapped in for a 6. Anyone that wouldn't do the same... well, the mind boggles once again.

I have called foul on myself more times than I care to remeber throughout the years. On some occasions where I was unsure I went for the punishing result on every occassion. Don't act like you are some marytr to the cause of decency and all that is good because your ball moved 2 millimetres and you called yourself up on it. I have done that a million times before and will do so again.

PhilipMarlowe

It's not about being a martyr. It's about playing the game by the rules or deciding that the rules don't apply to you. There is little point in calling foul for one infringement and willingly breaking another rule elsewhere. WTF is that about?

Obni

Licksy wrote: »

It's about playing the game by the rules or deciding that the rules don't apply to you. There is little point in calling foul for one infringement and willingly breaking another rule elsewhere.

Have to agree with you there. If the R&A didn't feel you gained an unfair advantage by asking what club someone played, then there wouldn't be a rule forbidding it. The first player to hit has to judge the yardage plus wind etc..., and so should everyone else. Being told you need to club up or down, rather than judging it yourself is cheating.

ridonkulous

Obni wrote: »

Have to agree with you there. If the R&A didn't feel you gained an unfair advantage by asking what club someone played, then there wouldn't be a rule forbidding it. The first player to hit has to judge the yardage plus wind etc..., and so should everyone else. Being told you need to club up or down, rather than judging it yourself is cheating.

I agree. My point is that when playing in Provincal or National competition I always without fail look into my opponents bag to see what club he has hit. I never ask in these instances. However in club competitions I ask the person who hit rather than going and having a look in their bag, mainly because I am friendly with that person. Is it cheating? Yes I suppose so. Will I stop doing it in club competitions? No.

Mister Sifter

ridonkulous wrote: »

I agree. My point is that when playing in Provincal or National competition I always without fail look into my opponents bag to see what club he has hit. I never ask in these instances. However in club competitions I ask the person who hit rather than going and having a look in their bag, mainly because I am friendly with that person. Is it cheating? Yes I suppose so. Will I stop doing it in club competitions? No.

So, you're admitting that you cheat at golf? You're openly admitting to being a cheat?

This thread reeks of Conno...

ridonkulous

Mister Sifter wrote: »

So, you're admitting that you cheat at golf? You're openly admitting to being a cheat?

Can anyone else smell Conno?

As regards the rule in question...... yes I suppose I am. But I still sleep soundly at night. Does that mean Im a bad person?

thegen

ridonkulous wrote: »

As regards the rule in question...... yes I suppose I am. But I still sleep soundly at night. Does that mean Im a bad person?

Probably does, your not someone I'd like to play golf with.

L.O.F.T

ridonkulous wrote: »

As regards the rule in question...... yes I suppose I am. But I still sleep soundly at night. Does that mean Im a bad person?

Dont be silly, your not a bad person, but you are cheating. Not a nice tag to have when playing golf.

Mister Sifter

ridonkulous wrote: »

As regards the rule in question...... yes I suppose I am. But I still sleep soundly at night. Does that mean Im a bad person?

In golfing terms, yes.

ridonkulous

Fair enough

ShriekingSheet

It's quite clear why there are these kind of rules are in place.

The guy on a good score who is helped home by playing partners playing ahead of his honour which might help him gauge wind, allowing him to see the sole of their club, not marking balls close behind the hole as he chips on etc, will have some advantage over the guy who's also on a good score, but who's playing partners will not be so cooperative.

The thing is, none of the above is actually against the rules... so where do people stand on this??

Here's my own position...

I would never play out of turn purely to give someone a steer. Though sometimes I would if someone lagged behind and we were under pressure- there is no penalty for the latter.

I would sometimes leave a ball unmarked as someone chipped, though would never agree to do so. There's a distinct difference there and as such, there is no penalty.

I would never cover the sole of my club when hitting on a par 3, though would never openly wave the number in someones face to show them. So in effect, within the rules, I have no problem with someone finding out what club I played.

So my question is, though I'm acting within the rules, I think I would in some way be helping a playing partner. Do people see this as unfair?

Daithio9

ridonkulous wrote: »

As regards the rule in question...... yes I suppose I am. But I still sleep soundly at night. Does that mean Im a bad person?

I'd imagine most thick skinned cheats sleep very well at night.

ridonkulous

Daithio9 wrote: »

I'd imagine most thick skinned cheats sleep very well at night.

I imagine they do but I wouldn't know about it.

Shannonsider

I think what's most important here is the higher morale code to abide by the rules. Anybody can go out and doctor their score in such a way that they think is not cheating.

ridonkulous

Out of interest has anybody on here ever played in an open competition in their local club with non members and advised them on where to aim or to hit a 3 wood off the tee to ensure the wouldn't reach a bunker/hazard of some sort?

I have done this on many occassions including team events (mainly schools) whereby I would inform a player on where he would want to avoid and indicated (innocently) a potential club to use. Would people consider this cheating?

Mister Sifter

ridonkulous wrote: »

Out of interest has anybody on here ever played in an open competition in their local club with non members and advised them on where to aim or to hit a 3 wood off the tee to ensure the wouldn't reach a bunker/hazard of some sort?

I have done this on many occassions including team events (mainly schools) whereby I would inform a player on where he would want to avoid and indicated (innocently) a potential club to use. Would people consider this cheating?

Surely it would only be cheating if the person asked. You can't really control what other people say to you.

ridonkulous

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Surely it would only be cheating if the person asked. You can't really control what other people say to you.

Yes but would you consider what I am doing cheating in this instance? or if a guy who has never played the course before ask me where does this hole go and wheres best to avoid, is that cheating?