Cheating in golf

heavyballs

There is a general feelin that golf is cheat free or at least cheaters are rare.
I don't agree,i've reported 3 individuals for cheating this year,there were also a lot of iffy incidents that could have been cheating but very hard to prove.
One guy 'found' his ball in deep rough that was different than his declared ball and miles from where it was hit.
The second dropped his ball on the wrong side of a path,not nearest point of relief,and the last was caught kicking his ball in the rough.
I think it's too easy after the incident to play dumb and pretend they don't know the rules,just ask,there's always 1 rules pro in each group

sweetswing

heavyballs wrote: »

There is a general feelin that golf is cheat free or at least cheaters are rare.
I don't agree,i've reported 3 individuals for cheating this year,there were also a lot of iffy incidents that could have been cheating but very hard to prove.
One guy 'found' his ball in deep rough that was different than his declared ball and miles from where it was hit.
The second dropped his ball on the wrong side of a path,not nearest point of relief,and the last was caught kicking his ball in the rough.
I think it's too easy after the incident to play dumb and pretend they don't know the rules,just ask,there's always 1 rules pro in each group

we had a great one in our club the other week, it was presidents day and hole number 14 ~456 yards long into a stiff wind {longest drive} i could only just see the marker in the distance ,i turned to my playing parteners and said there is only one player in this club who could have hit that , and sure enough when we got up to it his name was on it, this guy is the longest off the tee i have ever seen he crushes the ball ..any way everyone is back in the club house and the prises are being announced and lo and behold there is a 60 odd year olds name announced as longest drive... it was a ******* joke this guy cant hit the ball out of his way. never mind 310 into a head wind , i recently found out his nick name in the club is golden pen...

heavyballs

sweetswing wrote: »

we had a great one in our club the other week, it was presidents day and hole number 14 ~456 yards long into a stiff wind {longest drive} i could only just see the marker in the distance ,i turned to my playing parteners and said there is only one player in this club who could have hit that , and sure enough when we got up to it his name was on it, this guy is the longest off the tee i have ever seen he crushes the ball ..any way everyone is back in the club house and the prises are being announced and lo and behold there is a 60 odd year olds name announced as longest drive... it was a ******* joke this guy cant hit the ball out of his way. never mind 310 into a head wind , i recently found out his nick name in the club is golden pen...

we used to have an old timer who when replacing his ball on the green would flick the ball with the top of his hand closer to the hole,he was about 70 and used to win the odd prize when he was out with the right people.

Maverick.ie

I was out with a guy once and he marked his ball with a coin, when he replaced the ball he would put it down a couple of inches ahead of the ball. When playing a certain hole he marked the ball cleaned it and replaced it, as described above, he then marked lifted and cleaned a second time doing the same, without being to smart I said to him shure Tommy if you mark it and clean it 3 more times you wont have to putt at all. LOL

sweetswing

Maverick.ie wrote: »

I was out with a guy once and he marked his ball with a coin, when he replaced the ball he would put it down a couple of inches ahead of the ball. When playing a certain hole he marked the ball cleaned it and replaced it, as described above, he then marked lifted and cleaned a second time doing the same, without being to smart I said to him shure Tommy if you mark it and clean it 3 more times you wont have to putt at all. LOL

classic , i have seen this done many times and many different ways

L.O.F.T

sweetswing wrote: »

we had a great one in our club the other week, it was presidents day and hole number 14 ~456 yards long into a stiff wind {longest drive} i could only just see the marker in the distance ,i turned to my playing parteners and said there is only one player in this club who could have hit that , and sure enough when we got up to it his name was on it, this guy is the longest off the tee i have ever seen he crushes the ball ..any way everyone is back in the club house and the prises are being announced and lo and behold there is a 60 odd year olds name announced as longest drive... it was a ******* joke this guy cant hit the ball out of his way. never mind 310 into a head wind , i recently found out his nick name in the club is golden pen...

And those that sign that card or are in the company of a golfer like that are equally as bad. What satisfaction can anyone get from winning something by cheating....fraud, fraud,frauds

BigAl>>

Had a guy loose a ball off the tee and then try to drop one just off the fairway about 20-30yards past point of entry:eek: needles to say he scratched tht hole after a little conversation.

Then imagine the cheek when he has the neck on the very next hole to miss count his strokes and claim a par when he was over:eek: lucky for him I was marking his card and learned to count correctly:D so after pointing out his oversight and counting out his strokes on tht hole, the correct score was marked.

Whts the point in cheating

Swinging Looney

And don't forget that the rules prohibit anyone from waiving the rules and that includes you as the fraudsters playing partner. So, if you sign or mark a card that you know is incorrect you have also broken the rules and are technically as bad as he is!!!

Osgoodisgood

Wow! I didn't know this sort of stuff was so common. I had hoped that golf was more free of individuals who cheat and somehow still derive some satisfaction from playing the game.
I remember a few juniors many years ago that were known to allow some fairly creative addition amongst themselves but that's about all. I've had to point out some rules once or twice, grounding the club in a bunker, repairing spike marks, but in every case I thought the error was lack of rules knowledge, not lack of honesty.

gorfield

Theres some high profile amateurs at it constantly also........

BombSquad

gorfield wrote: »

Theres some high profile amateurs at it constantly also........

Doing what exactly? No names required although that would be great too!

soundsham

gorfield wrote: »

Theres some high profile amateurs at it constantly also........[/quote

some, whats that 5%?...15%? more
or is it 2 or 3 that have a name or been caught

irish I presume...

The_Kew_Tour

Maverick.ie wrote: »

I was out with a guy once and he marked his ball with a coin, when he replaced the ball he would put it down a couple of inches ahead of the ball. When playing a certain hole he marked the ball cleaned it and replaced it, as described above, he then marked lifted and cleaned a second time doing the same, without being to smart I said to him shure Tommy if you mark it and clean it 3 more times you wont have to putt at all. LOL

Lol

see that quite bit when used play..

cheating in golf does happen much more then people think

cashville

That's mad, I would have thought that it doesn't go on much at all. What's the point, zero satisfaction!

Obni

I played with a guy who started with a used ball (a Top-Flite), played 7 holes with it, and drove off the 8th and put it just out of bounds. He then took a new ball from his bag, (a Nike), and played it as a provisional very close to the OB. We looked for both balls and found one, a shiny new Nike. "Ah! That's my first ball!". I didn't know the guy, but the other two players just threw their eyes up to heaven. I told him he'd been playing an old Top Flite on the last green, so either it was his provisional and he'd taken three shots, or he'd changed his ball without notifying his playing partners, has incurred a 2-stroke penalty and was lying three anyway; his choice. He just shrugged his shoulders and said "Fair enough". What really p***ed me off was that the other two guys would have let it go. He knew that, and he knew that the next time he played he'd probably get away with it again. I told the committee about it, and they didn't seem to give a toss. Cheating would be a lot less common if people didn't let these things slide.

Trampas

I think cheating is crazy in society golf.

Lost ball just drop one around where you are.

Grounding clubs in hazards.

Gimmies.

Tee off infront of the tee area

unable to count

heavyballs

don't forget vj was banned on the asian tour for altering a scorecard,he says it was a mistake but they wouldn't ban you for a mistake,that was years ago but it was b4 he became a big name

mag

gorfield wrote: »

Theres some high profile amateurs at it constantly also........

thats quite amazing if true.

Sandwich

1.

Gotta say, in lot of golf over the last 25 years I cant say Ive seen much cheating. A lot of, I would say genuine, ignorance of the rules, where rules are broken but not deliberately: drop off to favourable side of a path as above, mixing up lateral and water hazards, grounding club in a hazard etc. but I kdont think cheating was the aim.

Came accross one though which is still one of the most bizarre rounds Ive played. Playing an open singles 3 ball. None of us had met before. One, on 2nd or 3rd hole, i saw nudge his ball sneakily, with the club, into a more favourable lie in the 1st cut off the fairway. He was a priest (I know!?!?) home from missions for the summer but who played regular golf wherever he was based. I said nothing (the other guy was marking his card so I chickened out). About the 6th, he did the same again, and the 3rd guy asked me discretely as we walked on, did I see that. I said I did and had seen it earlier. He said he has seen him do it 3 or 4 times, even on the fairway and in a bunker! Neither of us had the nerve to pull him on it, but got a great laugh out of watch it for the rest of the round. 3rd man signed the card (which was of no consequence) anyway. We convinced ourselves that there must be some local rule where he played in Africa that permitted it and we didnt want to embarrass him by pointing out how the rules are here.

Sandwich

2.


Here a tougher one I have seen at various times to different degrees. Occasionally extreme:
Fellow competitors become assistants to companions having a good score. Have seen it a few times with enthusiastic Dads, effectively 'caddying' home a son who is having a good round - giving club advise, tips, motivation, putting lines.
Saw it again this summer with 2 guys i would have played with occasionally over the years. They are close friends and would typically play together. But I never saw them do this: one was going very well, and heading for a score in the 40s. When it was clear he was in contention, the pal, while still playing his own card, effectively became a team mate for the other with the same kind of advice, support etc as above. They know each others games very well and he was usefully able to give club advice and even swing feedback!
I was signing the hot streak guys card. And I did. I felt I shouldnt but didnt want to find out I was wrong in not doing so, or fall out with them. He had 42pts and was 2nd or 3rd. The guilt is still with me.

Was it cheating? Can anyone put me out of my misery, or did I collude in cheating someone else out of a deserved prize? Or was it the 'helper' who should have been disqualified?

jakedabake

Sandwich wrote: »

2.


Here a tougher one I have seen at various times to different degrees. Occasionally extreme:
Fellow competitors become assistants to companions having a good score. Have seen it a few times with enthusiastic Dads, effectively 'caddying' home a son who is having a good round - giving club advise, tips, motivation, putting lines.
Saw it again this summer with 2 guys i would have played with occasionally over the years. They are close friends and would typically play together. But I never saw them do this: one was going very well, and heading for a score in the 40s. When it was clear he was in contention, the pal, while still playing his own card, effectively became a team mate for the other with the same kind of advice, support etc as above. They know each others games very well and he was usefully able to give club advice and even swing feedback!
I was signing the hot streak guys card. And I did. I felt I shouldnt but didnt want to find out I was wrong in not doing so, or fall out with them. He had 42pts and was 2nd or 3rd. The guilt is still with me.

Was it cheating? Can anyone put me out of my misery, or did I collude in cheating someone else out of a deserved prize? Or was it the 'helper' who should have been disqualified?

To the best of my knowledge in single's competition you can't ask for advice from your playing partners but if the advice is given freely then thats your good luck.

PhilipMarlowe

Asking for advice is a 2 stroke penalty.
Giving a fellow competitor advice is a 2 stroke penalty.
Being given 'advice' that you didn't ask for is not a penalty for the receiving player but is a 2 stroke penalty as above for the giver.

ridonkulous

I have heard of a player (it was in the West of Ireland championship I think) who refused to sign the card he was marking as he felt the player wasn't being entirely honest with his score.

jakedabake

Licksy wrote: »

Asking for advice is a 2 stroke penalty.
Giving a fellow competitor advice is a 2 stroke penalty.
Being given 'advice' that you didn't ask for is not a penalty for the receiving player but is a 2 stroke penalty as above for the giver.

Thanks Licksy for the info, good to know the penalties.

Sandwich

Thanks guys for the expert info.

Guilt erased so. It does seem wrong however that it is not cheating to sacrifice your own round (by disqualifying yourself), and become an assistant to someone else instead of competing against them
So its 'legal' in the rules of golf. But is it withing the spirit of the game? Or even morally correct?

mag

Sandwich wrote: »

2.


Here a tougher one I have seen at various times to different degrees. Occasionally extreme:
Fellow competitors become assistants to companions having a good score. Have seen it a few times with enthusiastic Dads, effectively 'caddying' home a son who is having a good round - giving club advise, tips, motivation, putting lines.
Saw it again this summer with 2 guys i would have played with occasionally over the years. They are close friends and would typically play together. But I never saw them do this: one was going very well, and heading for a score in the 40s. When it was clear he was in contention, the pal, while still playing his own card, effectively became a team mate for the other with the same kind of advice, support etc as above. They know each others games very well and he was usefully able to give club advice and even swing feedback!
I was signing the hot streak guys card. And I did. I felt I shouldnt but didnt want to find out I was wrong in not doing so, or fall out with them. He had 42pts and was 2nd or 3rd. The guilt is still with me.

Was it cheating? Can anyone put me out of my misery, or did I collude in cheating someone else out of a deserved prize? Or was it the 'helper' who should have been disqualified?

i played in a scratch cup this year with a someone who plays internationally for ireland, this was a open timesheet so he was down with his fellow clubmate. on the first 18, the first par 3 he goes to his mate - "what are you hitting here, im thinking of a five iron", etc..., he was up & hit his club and then told his mate what he hit. i said - listen lads we're playing in a competition here, not out for a few holes for the craic, cut it out. yerman says to me - chill out, its only a poxy scratch cup....yada....i.e. whats your problem. it didnt make for a comfortable next 30 odd holes for me but i was amazed at this behaviour.

fullstop

mag wrote: »

i played in a scratch cup this year with a someone who plays internationally for ireland, this was a open timesheet so he was down with his fellow clubmate. on the first 18, the first par 3 he goes to his mate - "what are you hitting here, im thinking of a five iron", etc..., he was up & hit his club and then told his mate what he hit. i said - listen lads we're playing in a competition here, not out for a few holes for the craic, cut it out. yerman says to me - chill out, its only a poxy scratch cup....yada....i.e. whats your problem. it didnt make for a comfortable next 30 odd holes for me but i was amazed at this behaviour.

Happens all the time in club comps, haven't seen it much in scratch cups and the like. I think the rule that you can't be told or ask what club somebody hit should be done away with, it might speed up play instead of people mulling over what to hit for ages. Also, the pros have a caddy to tell them what to hit, so what's the difference? If you really want to know you can find out anyway by looking in a playing partner's bag.

Genco

Surprising to see that no one has as yet mentioned what I think is the most common form of cheating. I have yet to win a singles competition but have managed to get my handicap down over the years however the number of players I see winning fourballs on a regular basis in club competitions or corporate outings who shamelessly play off handicaps that facilitate them producing in excess of 40 points every time they play if they were to mark a card seems far too common. Personally I would rather see my game improving without winning anything rather than stoop to picking up prizes in such a manner however I often feel like I am in the minority in this regard.

Tom Ghostwood

Yeah im guilty of giving my mate the eyes & him showing me the sole of his club & its very common in club golf. Its technically cheating but its a million miles from moving or kicking your ball in to a more favorable lie etc. Does it even matter now since range finders have become competition legal?

Swinging Looney

Tom Ghostwood wrote: »

Yeah im guilty of giving my mate the eyes & him showing me the sole of his club & its very common in club golf. Its technically cheating but its a million miles from moving or kicking your ball in to a more favorable lie etc. Does it even matter now since range finders have become competition legal?

So many people have a similar attitude, that there are little rules that are OK to break or ignore and then there are big rules which require condemnation if you're in breach. It is the laziest way to play golf imo. Picking and choosing which rules suit and which don't is a lot easier than just simply complying with them all.

Showing or asking what club you've hit is advice and is against the rules. It is also one I can't understand why people bother with. Even if someone did hit every club exactly the same yardage as me, I could never tell if they hit it 100% or 90% or cut it a little or caught it a touch fat, etc, etc, so it is of almost zero benefit.

But it's not about the benefit you actually get from asking, it's the attempt to gain a benefit that counts. It is cheating, plain and simple.

Imagine playing a comp where some guy has a 5 iron in is hand and asks his mate what club he hit and based on his answer swap for a 6 iron and knocks it to 6 inches. He then pips you by one shot for first place. What's the difference between that and coming 15th?

Also, not physically asking for advice but quietly accepting it when it is given can justifiably be taken by a committee to be cheating also. If someone tries to help you during a comp you should remind them that you have to play the remainder of the round on your own.

Swinging Looney

fullstop wrote: »

Happens all the time in club comps, haven't seen it much in scratch cups and the like. I think the rule that you can't be told or ask what club somebody hit should be done away with, it might speed up play instead of people mulling over what to hit for ages. Also, the pros have a caddy to tell them what to hit, so what's the difference? If you really want to know you can find out anyway by looking in a playing partner's bag.

Just as my above post. So many amatuers totally oversetimate the benefit they can get by looking to see what club your mate has hit. Has he caught it flush or not? Cut or drawn a touch? What ball is he using? etc, etc... A pro caddy knows your game perfectly and your game only. Totally different to looking at how your mate plays the game.

spurscormac

I have to say that this is a very interesting thread for a relative newcomer to the game. I've played for a good few years, but only ever for fun, not yet in proper competitions, so some these rules are very new to me, and some do seem a bit ridiculous.

Especially the one about asking or giving advice. To be honest, it seems like a stupid rule, why should a pro be allowed the advice of a caddie, yet an amateur not be allowed a couple of words with a fellow player?

The plain simple ones like marking wrong scores, kicking balls or "finding" a different lost ball, are clearly cheating, but a few words from another player is a bit excessive.
As was said above, I would have different yardage to other players and not know how well they hit a shot or not. Added to that, due to the variance in club specifications, my 6 iron might be the equivalent loft to someone else's 5 iron, so again the advantage gained is arbitrary.

However, like those who said above, you don't have a choice in which rules you abide by or not, you should abide by them all.

Finally, someone mentioned you cannot ground your club in a hazard. Fair enough, I was aware of that for bunkers, but for what other hazards can you not ground your club ?

Myksyk

spurscormac wrote: »

Finally, someone mentioned you cannot ground your club in a hazard. Fair enough, I was aware of that for bunkers, but for what other hazards can you not ground your club ?

No you can't ground your club in any hazard.

Myksyk

Interesting watching the President's Cup last night. Saw Tiger's caddy Steve Williams looking into Yang's bag to see what club was missing and therefore what club he had used on a par 3 tee box. It was commented on by the commentators but in such a way as to make me believe that there was nothing wrong with this particular way of gaining information. What's your understanding in relation to this?

Tom Ghostwood

Ive not played club golf since I was 17 (9 years ago) so Ive not indulged in that rule infringement since. I do plan to re-join a club this season & play regular competitions. I use a rangefinder for my yardages. When I use this in a competition & someone asks me whats the yardage, am I allowed tell them? Is this breaking the rules?

PhilipMarlowe

Myksyk wrote: »

Interesting watching the President's Cup last night. Saw Tiger's caddy Steve Williams looking into Yang's bag to see what club was missing and therefore what club he had used on a par 3 tee box. It was commented on by the commentators but in such a way as to make me believe that there was nothing wrong with this particular way of gaining information. What's your understanding in relation to this?

Casually observing what club someone else used is no problem... whether that be by watching the number on the sole as they hold the finish or by looking into the bag and see what one was missing... so long as you don't root around in their bag and take off the cover to see it's ok.

PhilipMarlowe

Tom Ghostwood wrote: »

Ive not played club golf since I was 17 (9 years ago) so Ive not indulged in that rule infringement since. I do plan to re-join a club this season & play regular competitions. I use a rangefinder for my yardages. When I use this in a competition & someone asks me whats the yardage, am I allowed tell them? Is this breaking the rules?

Firstly rangefinders are not always allowed so you have to check does the course you are playing on specifically allow them to be used in competition.
If they are allowed, exchanging distance information is not a problem.

jimbling

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Just as my above post. So many amatuers totally oversetimate the benefit they can get by looking to see what club your mate has hit. Has he caught it flush or not? Cut or drawn a touch? What ball is he using? etc, etc... A pro caddy knows your game perfectly and your game only. Totally different to looking at how your mate plays the game.

Well, you may know your mates game quite well. It's also quite easy to see how well a player has struck a ball. And it's pretty obvious if it was cut or drawn. And you should know what ball he is using too.
Basically, if you are any way observant the information could be very useful. I know I have changed clubs based on noticing what an other player hit and how the shot turned out.


With regards the rules in general... I think a disregard of them is absolutely rife these days. I've often had to say to associates playing with me to not ask me what I've hit etc. They think it's no big deal. I beg to differ. I do agree with the rule... you shouldn't be allowed to help each other, it is not a team event.
Other than that, I think it is mostly ignorance of the rules. Our club is hosting a rules night this week, hopefully it will get a lot of the problems across.

jimbling

Just out of curiosity.

Lets say you are playing a singles event. Three of you are in the competition, but there is a fourth guy just along for the day as a guest. He's a mate of yours and a pretty good player.
Is he allowed to help you on your round?

mack flyer

i played in a society captains prize in killeen golf club a few years back and got a tee time of 2pm...I was playing a football match at 7.30 that evening and told the guys i was playing with on the 1st tee that i would be rushing away after the game...None of us played well and after the game i signed the card i was marking and headed for the football match..
I got home at 11 that night and got a call from the club captain to meet him the next evening and he was very snotty on the phone...Well to make a long story short i got a shock when he accused me of signing a card with the wrong score on it.Sorry i said but i would never do a thing like that and he said that he was walking up a fairway and seen the guy i was marking the card for drive into the water and when he was checking the card noticed that he was down for a birdie 4 on that hole.I was flabbergasted and asked him to show me his card which he did and i could not believe it..i had marked his card with a pencil and signed it after the 18th but the fecker went over his card with a pen after rubbing out the scores.
Needless to say i got an apology and the guy got chucked out..

How could you look at a piece of crystal on the mantlepiece when you know you did not win it???

L.O.F.T

jimbling wrote: »

Our club is hosting a rules night this week, hopefully it will get a lot of the problems across.

A rules night....sounds like fun. Those that cant be arsed to implement them on the course are hardly going to go to a meeting about rules. Cheaters will always cheat regradless of their understanding of the rules, ignorance is not an excuse either. There are free rules books given out in our club from the R&A / GUI every year. If in doubt of a rule consult your playing partners if still undecided refer to the handbook or explain the situation to comp sec on return to the club after your round.

Shannonsider

very interesting thread, have not played in any competitions but playing for fun for years now. Didn't realise that advice giving was so frowned upon..... especially since its the individual who has to hit the ball..... not the advice giver.

Swinging Looney

As jimbling said it is not a team event. Only you can decide what to do for any particular shot.

It should be mentioned though that factual information is ok to ask for and give, like yardages (if you know they are accurate, not "It looks like about 150 to me") or pin positions or hazard locations etc, etc. So asking "Is there any trouble over the back of that green?" is fine but "What line should I take off the tee?" is not.

The club or shot your fellow competitor has hit is considered subjective advice and is not allowed.

Incidentally, Steve Williams lookign at Yangs bag is fine because no advice was asked for by Woods or his caddie and none was given by Yang although it probably is pushing the rules the limit of their intent. For example, is you happen to spot the number on the sole of the guys club while he holds his follow through after his shot, you could not be expected to penalise yourself for spotting it. Or if some guy has a yellow grip on his 5 iron but blue ones on everything else, you could not be expected to look away while he selects his club and plays. In other words, some information will be obvious and easily noticeable. Other info must be deliberately sought after and this is what the rules relate to.

spurscormac

Myksyk wrote: »

No you can't ground your club in any hazard.

Excuse my ignorance, but are there any other hazards apart from bunkers and water hazards?
And in terms of water hazards, what is deemed part of the hazard, the water itself or within a staked area ?

Daithio9

spurscormac wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but are there any other hazards apart from bunkers and water hazards?
And in terms of water hazards, what is deemed part of the hazard, the water itself or within a staked area ?

Just to confuse you a little bit more, a water hazaed does not have to have water in it to be considered a water hazard.
All water hazards are marked by stakes and on some occasions actual lines painted on the ground, and you are cosidered to be in a water hazard if your ball lies in or is touching any point in line with the outside edge of the water hazard stakes.

gorfield

mag wrote: »

thats quite amazing if true.

very true, the individual will be caught, ive seen an incident that was truly shocking while representing his province. Im not going into detail but this crap isnt reserved for beginners.

thegen

I have yet to witness cheating but a guy I knew once witnessed the following. He was walking parallel to a hole and a guy was walking 30/40 yds ahead of his playing partners as he got to the green to mark his ball he bent down to pace a coin as marker but instead flicked it 10ft nearer the hole and picked his ball up. When his playing partners caught up they we non the wiser. My friend left his faiway and challenged the player in question. His denied it but. He reported this to the golf club in question. They player had not returned his card and was a visitor on the day in question.

dublinrover

thegen wrote: »

I have yet to witness cheating but a guy I knew once witnessed the following. He was walking parallel to a hole and a guy was walking 30/40 yds ahead of his playing partners as he got to the green to mark his ball he bent down to pace a coin as marker but instead flicked it 10ft nearer the hole and picked his ball up. When his playing partners caught up they we non the wiser. My friend left his faiway and challenged the player in question. His denied it but. He reported this to the golf club in question. They player had not returned his card and was a visitor on the day in question.

LOL thats a good one , every club seems to have a few guys who are magicans out of the rough they always find their ball and it always has got a great lie no matter how deep the rough do you ever wonder if you find tees in the rough or the semi how they got there, the other classic cheater is the guy who offers to mark all the cards. Have also played with a few paranoid guys who assumes every else is a cheat and are constantly watching everything and trying to catch people out can be very off putting these guys usually have few friends.

Shannonsider

Very impressive to hear about the etiquette with regards to maintaining the letter of the law in golf. Comparing this to other sports where 'winning at all costs seems to be the motto', its very interesting to hear of the very high morale code that golf upholds.

I would be one of those who plays on the edge in terms of obeying golf rules (out of ignorance rather than cheating) but having read this thread I will do my best to maintain a high morale code when playing golf in future.

Mister Sifter

Had a bit of a hard one recently where i was playing with one of my best mates, whom i play alot of golf with, in a stableford. I wasn't marking his card but the guy who was marked him down for a 4 on which he in fact had a 5.

It ended up giving him one more point than me and edged him into the prizes list, with me missing out.

The new feature on Howdidido which allows you to see what each player scored on each hole was what made me realise.

Mr check raise

Some of the rules though are there to be broken! The one about not telling people what clubs you hit is a bit stupid i think. If pros have caddies surely we should be allowed give each other a little hint. i do flaunt that rule a bit. one example was the 16th in my own own club, a par 3 which says its 190 yards from the back tees but its downhill and trees behind the green. i came to it with a pretty good score in the captains prize(i had never played from the back tee) and flew a 5 iron over the green only for my partner to say he'd hit 8 iron. So when i played with a society a couple of weeks later and i came to it again i hit iron and told the other guy in my group(our clubbing was around the same) what to hit. he couldnt believe it cos he was about to hit 4 iron!

When you are a member you should be able to give advice about the course, its not that much of an advantage, thats just my opinion. What i cant stand is dodgy counters or people who make preferred lies for themselves