Accountability for Kieran Byrne?

brian plank

Reporter 11 wrote: »

Check out lecturer salaries in the region of €80k for working in front of class approx 18 hours per week over 2 semesters of 12 weeks. The president of WIT worked full days for 5 to 7 days and the costs were not expenses paid to him but paid by the institute to suppliers.

your talking ****e. do you honestly think every lecturer automatically earns 80k a year and sits around doing nothing in their spare time?

wobbles

Reporter 11 wrote: »

Check out lecturer salaries in the region of €80k for working in front of class approx 18 hours per week over 2 semesters of 12 weeks. The president of WIT worked full days for 5 to 7 days and the costs were not expenses paid to him but paid by the institute to suppliers.

I think you need to look a little further into what lecturers actually do. Standing in front of a class for 18 hours per week over 2 semesters of 12 weeks is the final result of years of education, weeks research before starting to teach the module (as they dont really get to chose the classes the teach) and hours of preperation for each class. This is the work that goes into teaching in third level.

Paully D

SupportWIT wrote: »

I am a past student of WIT and I am very proud of it, the medias reporting on this disgusts me, some paper reported spending of €500 on a plasma screen, how much should they cost, sounds cheap to me

I have setup a support Professor Kieran Byrne page on Facebook, please support it and hopefully it's not too late

The college is a fantastic Institute and everybody should be proud of it and thank those who made it possible

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Professor-Kieran-Byrne/173565986033042

Hi Kieran.

beegirl

Reporter 11 wrote: »

Check out lecturer salaries in the region of €80k for working in front of class approx 18 hours per week over 2 semesters of 12 weeks.

Reporter 11 wrote: »

With regards the TUI lecturers they already recieve €80k plus salaries working 16 to 18 hours per week, and we have 2 no 12 week semesters leaving them 26 weeks for other work and holidays. Morgan O kelly is correct in that he has indicated the academics salary in this country are excessive.

First of all, lecturers who have €80k plus salaries would have been working in their job for 20/30 years before they get to that salary - you have to start off as an assistant lecturer and get less than half of that salary (for doing the exact same job, mind you). Also to get onto the "lecturer" pay scale nowadays you have to get a PhD first and to get onto the "senior" lecturer scale you have to have a internationally recognised record of research - this is in addition to about 20 years work experience. The vast majority of lecturers in WIT do not get paid those kinds of salaries, just so ya know....

Secondly, you don't just show up for your 18 hours in class, like others have said, several hours preparation go into each hour in front of a class - in fairness, you wouldn't give a presentation in work/college in front of a group of people without fully preparing for it so why do you think this would be any different? Also there is assessment, course development, preparing for new modules etc. Ok so the holidays are fantastic, but it's 10 weeks off actually, not 26... and also you are expected to do research (not that all lecturers do this!) that is unpaid and totally "off your own bat" so to speak... so a lot of people don't actually take that much time off at all.

Maybe check your facts next time eh :rolleyes:

stick-dan

Reporter 11 wrote: »

Check out lecturer salaries in the region of €80k for working in front of class approx 18 hours per week over 2 semesters of 12 weeks. The president of WIT worked full days for 5 to 7 days and the costs were not expenses paid to him but paid by the institute to suppliers.

you're out to stir sh1t in this thread, don't be quoting me and bringing me into it in future, cheers thanks.

t. kelly

There is another issue in relation to all of this which has never been aired. By what authority does he call himself Professor. Dr Byrne was once appointed to the position of Associate Professor by UL. This position is known as a half-chair and has none of the prestige of being a full professor. In his case he was given the position just to be an administrator. He was never appointed a full professor (a full chair), which is not surprising since he had no academic works (books or research papers) of any significance. In other words, while he has academic qualifications, he is not a proper research academic. Institutes of Technology do not have professors. So he cannot be, or have been made, a professsor at WIT. Perhaps he carried his title from UL to WIT. If this is so, however, he should be known by the lesser title of Associate Professor. Why has this gone on? Surely this is academic and professional dishonesty? I am amazed that this has never been picked up and highlighted

deisedol

t. kelly wrote: »

There is another issue in relation to all of this which has never been aired. By what authority does he call himself Professor. Dr Byrne was once appointed to the position of Associate Professor by UL. This position is known as a half-chair and has none of the prestige of being a full professor. In his case he was given the position just to be an administrator. He was never appointed a full professor (a full chair), which is not surprising since he had no academic works (books or research papers) of any significance. In other words, while he has academic qualifications, he is not a proper research academic. Institutes of Technology do not have professors. So he cannot be, or have been made, a professsor at WIT. Perhaps he carried his title from UL to WIT. If this is so, however, he should be known by the lesser title of Associate Professor. Why has this gone on? Surely this is academic and professional dishonesty? I am amazed that this has never been picked up and highlighted

Probably the same reason why people who do PHD 's call themselves doctors even though they are not real doctors at all.

deisedol

I am sure in the cold light of day , when the media get over the orgy of sensational figures it will be obvious that kieran byrne acted appropriately in overseeing the spending of others under his management and his own office. it seemsn all these expenses were signed off by the board of governers who are now stabbing him in the back. They should be made resign in my opinion as there is a lot of expenses attributable to them under the presidents office- they have hung kieran byrne out to dry as they cant stand over the fact they signed off on PRESIDENT OFFICE and their own spending. The spending was over a 7 year period and is probably a lot less than the DIT or other large IT's. To be fair here there should be a comparison to other IT's which have undergone such massive development as WIT over the past 7-8 years. The WIT has been transformed under KB's leadership.
This whole affair seems a bit one sided and all the excellent work which has been overseen by kieran Byrne is being ignored.
I find it hard to believe that someone else would want to go to Waterford and fill his shoes as they will have the knifes out for them as well. The unions have always been very powerful in Waterford and this is another example of the unions sending sensational figures and half truths to the media to achieve their own selfish aims.
I hope k B sues them all for defamation as the media,union, board has a lot to answer for here-in my opinion.

blindsider

deisedol wrote: »

Probably the same reason why people who do PHD 's call themselves doctors even though they are not real doctors at all.

A PhD is also called a Doctorate for a reason - it awards the degree of Doctor, in the same way that an MA/MEd etc awards the degree of Master.

Those who achieve a PhD are certainly Doctors in their chosen field, which is not necessarily medicine (or health related).

It is now customary for a Doctor of e.g. History, to refer to themselves as a Doctor when referring to academia etc but not in their local shop, pub etc.

Most PhD-holders I know can't be bothered to refer to themselves as Doctor at all, and secretly smile at medical doctors and their vanity.

Interestingly, surgeons refuse to be called Doctor, and insist on Mr. (Not sure about female surgeons). Although this is a historical aberration, today's surgeons still insist on the distinction being made.

DD - IMO your 2nd post is far too biased to comment on - so I won't bother.

Generally speaking, I am pleased that KB is not to have his term extended.

In a previous article, it is mentioned that he is a non-driver - anyone care to elaborate?

beegirl

deisedol wrote: »

Probably the same reason why people who do PHD 's call themselves doctors even though they are not real doctors at all.

Not the same thing, not even a little bit.

deisedol

Those who achieve a PhD are certainly Doctors in their chosen field, which is not necessarily medicine (or health related).

Point taken, however it is confusing to the general public as is a half chair, half professor, full professor. I dont understand why kieran byrne using the title professor is coming under question by other posters, just as phd cant be taken away from you i guess the same could be said of the title professor, if he held it in his last University he is well entitled to use it in WIT. Thats what has made WIT more like a university, is that not what the people of Waterford want a university with lots and lots of professors:)

blindsider

deisedol wrote: »

Those who achieve a PhD are certainly Doctors in their chosen field, which is not necessarily medicine (or health related).

Point taken, however it is confusing to the general public as is a half chair, half professor, full professor. I dont understand why kieran byrne using the title professor is coming under question by other posters, just as phd cant be taken away from you i guess the same could be said of the title professor, if he held it in his last University he is well entitled to use it in WIT. Thats what has made WIT more like a university, is that not what the people of Waterford want a university with lots and lots of professors:)

TBH - I've never met the man and I don't have anything against him personally. I do have a problem with waste, mis-management and mis-representation.

The Board have seen fit to ensure he is not re-appointed. They obviously had their reasons - I'm happy with that, becuse it seems that he did not manage resources properly, considering that WIT was running a €5m deficit.

Associate Professor is the equivalent of 'Senior Lecturer' or similar. It is not a Professorship and an AP does not have security of tenure. In academia, that's very important.

In his bio (on WIT's website) no mention is made of a professorship e.g. Professor of Geography 19xx.

I don't believe it was appropriate for him to carry the title of Associate Professor with him to WIT - it was awarded at UL and has no meaning outside UL.

For example, if a company Director resigns from ABC Ltd (and severs all ties), and joins XYZ as a senior manager, s/he wouldn't still refer to themselves as a Director. (I'm trying to think of a better example - in large companies, several people have the title 'Director' but they're not company directors, with all the legal responsibilty that entails. Usually, these people do not refer to themselves as directors, it just looks good on the business card when meeting clients.))

Fianlly, KB knows all this academic protocol. Confusion amongst the gen. public is exacerbated by abuse of title such as this (Remember the taoiseach who claimed to be an accountant?). He is intimately aware of academic protocol and all that it enails. The rigidity of the system is important because it prevents abuse.

IMHO, KB should have left the AP title in Limerick - he has enough qualifications to do the job, and his track record should speak for itself.

Lawher

deisedol wrote: »

I am sure in the cold light of day , when the media get over the orgy of sensational figures it will be obvious that kieran byrne acted appropriately in overseeing the spending of others under his management and his own office. it seemsn all these expenses were signed off by the board of governers who are now stabbing him in the back. They should be made resign in my opinion as there is a lot of expenses attributable to them under the presidents office- they have hung kieran byrne out to dry as they cant stand over the fact they signed off on PRESIDENT OFFICE and their own spending. The spending was over a 7 year period and is probably a lot less than the DIT or other large IT's. To be fair here there should be a comparison to other IT's which have undergone such massive development as WIT over the past 7-8 years. The WIT has been transformed under KB's leadership.
This whole affair seems a bit one sided and all the excellent work which has been overseen by kieran Byrne is being ignored.
I find it hard to believe that someone else would want to go to Waterford and fill his shoes as they will have the knifes out for them as well. The unions have always been very powerful in Waterford and this is another example of the unions sending sensational figures and half truths to the media to achieve their own selfish aims.
I hope k B sues them all for defamation as the media,union, board has a lot to answer for here-in my opinion.

You have a good point about the Governers signing off on the figures over the years, but so did the auditors and I think the Comptroller Auditor General. All the papers report that the figures were obtained under FOI so the figures had to come from WIT, so they must have been availabl to the Governers, auditers, HEA and Comptroller Auditer General over the years. Why didn't they act sooner? In the currant economic state I think there will be a lot of people willing to go to Waterford for the amount of money the job pays.

forfuxsake

who owns campus services?:rolleyes:

Lawher

forfuxsake wrote: »

who owns campus services?:rolleyes:

Looked at the CRO and only could find Campus Life Services no304070 at UL. Could not find anything for awhile even address search was getting nothing. 5 WIT companys found however.

Wit campus accomadation no 350366. Wit Campus Developement lim no35400. WIT CampusFitness ltd 35093. WIT Diverse Campus Services ltd no 32350. Wit Sports & Social club lts no 324152.

All companys have address of waterford RTC, Cork Road, Waterford. Must be right. All listed as class c which I think means charitable. Couldn't get more info without paying for it which I'm not that into it. With WIT used in the names WIT must own Campus Services I think.

homolumo

forfuxsake wrote: »

who owns campus services?:rolleyes:

excellent question

forfuxsake

WIT Diverse Campus Services - two directors listed

beegirl

I always thought campus services was privately owned i.e. not owned by WIT....

By the way, what does ownership of campus services have to do with Kieran Byrne?? Am I missing something?

forfuxsake

If it is privately owned then why is KB listed as one of those two directors. I stumbled upon this by chance and it has little to do with me but if I were a student/lecturer at WIT I would be interested to find out more...

Sherlocky

lmao - is that a serious question? You can bring a horse to water eh...........!

Could it be that its because he's a Director of the private company? Normal practice and nothing untoward about it dear boy!

Also, I'm innocently wondering whether KB's departure and a new financial regime will have any potential impact upon the future activities of the esteemed SU? I'm sure it won't, of course. But I'm just wondering.

forfuxsake

Well it is interesting if he part-owns a private company that is awarded contracts from a public organisation that he heads.

Sully

Its setup to only service WIT. Its based on WIT, to serve WIT. I don't think they bid for the contract, if whats that you are implying. I assume every president is listed as a director during their term?

forfuxsake

That's what I presumed myself but could not find anything to suggest this was the case. Hopefully that is the case indeed. If it isn't then it is wrong.

Lawher

I should of paid more attention in company law. Never thought I would of said that. But I dont think directors are owners. I think stockholders are the owners and directors work or oversee the company.

Query--how many cups of tea would Campus Services have to sell to pay for one taxi trip to Dublin?

forfuxsake

6?

Lawher

No wonder they dont want anyone bringing anything into the cantenes.

Seriously I saw on the webpage that the WIT student art show is on from the 20th to the 27th. Think KB will be a judge this year?

Sully

If KB was given the boot, who is the interim president? Or is he still president, just not getting another term?

beegirl

Tony McFeely (the financial controller) is the interim president!



I don't understand what the price of a cup of tea has to do with anything tbh, it seems way off topic, and in fairness the poor man can't be blamed for everything lol :rolleyes:

Sully

beegirl wrote: »

Tony McFeely (the financial controller) is the interim president!

How fitting! lol

I don't understand what the price of a cup of tea has to do with anything tbh, it seems way off topic, and in fairness the poor man can't be blamed for everything lol :rolleyes:

Assume they were being sarcastic!

beegirl

Sully wrote: »

How fitting! lol

I know right :rolleyes: