Accountability for Kieran Byrne?

chillok

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

^^^^^

Agreed,

Good to see you.

shapez

dlofnep wrote: »

The funds were allocated in 2008. It's a moot point, if the college doesn't have the funds to spend on it's students, it should not spend to that level on office equipment. There is absolutely no justification for it.

The building was finished and open in 2008. For about 4 years prior to that they were preparing the site and left it until the funds became available. Work started in mid/late 2006 and building was open for 2008 academic year.

As you well know the college gets it funding from the HEA/Dept. of Education. In saying this, certain areas are given funding for specific needs. And unfortunately for students their needs come a lot further down the pecking order. This is not entirely the WIT's fault. It's hold the funds are distributed by the government.

dlofnep wrote: »

Universities receive millions more in funding than IT's, so if we do not have the funds to spend on our students - we should not spend it on office equipment. You say you are not trying justify his spending, but you are trying to justify it by virtue of categorising it as the norm, by shared responsibility across the board with all colleges.
This is not acceptable spending behaviour.

I beg to differ. The vast majority of Uni's funding comes from researchers and research grants that are available from various organistational bodies. Uni's are more like a large business, they actually have to go and make their own money as opposed to been heavily funded by the state, i.e WIT. So, which brings us back to the topic should WIT be a Uni. If WIT was a Uni in the morning we would loose a lot of funding from the government and rely on ourselves to find it.

As I said, it is appalling the level of spending that went on. But, you must remember it happens in ALL Uni's, Institutes & HSE's not just the WIT. Sadly, it is the norm.

dlofnep

shapez wrote: »

As I said, it is appalling the level of spending that went on. But, you must remember it happens in ALL Uni's, Institutes & HSE's not just the WIT. Sadly, it is the norm.

Being the "norm" doesn't make it right, and I reject your attempt to cast it off on behalf of being the norm. John O'Donoghues mis-use of funds was also the norm. You seem confusing the fact that this is an issue of right and wrong, and not an issue of something being normal or not.

Wasting of much needed funds is not acceptable. It doesn't matter when the funds were allocated, the purchases of the materials came much later.

Why any of you are trying to defend this blatant misuse of funds is beyond me. Perhaps if you experienced the same nonsense with equipment, software and classes - you'd be more hesitant to do so.

shapez

dlofnep wrote: »

Being the "norm" doesn't make it right, and I reject your attempt to cast it off on behalf of being the norm. John O'Donoghues mis-use of funds was also the norm. You seem confusing the fact that this is an issue of right and wrong, and not an issue of something being normal or not.

Wasting of much needed funds is not acceptable. It doesn't matter when the funds were allocated, the purchases of the materials came much later.

Why any of you are trying to defend this blatant misuse of funds is beyond me. Perhaps if you experienced the same nonsense with equipment, software and classes - you'd be more hesitant to do so.

I totally agree with you. I'm not trying to cast it off as the "norm". It is blatant disregard for use of funding. It is wrong, completely wrong, however, nobody was complaining about the mis-use of funds 24 months ago.

I have experienced first hand the very same nonsense of equipment, software, classes etc. Going back to over 10 years ago when I started in college (not WIT) it was the same then, it was the same when I studied at night 6 years ago (WIT) and it was still the very same when I studied at night 2 years ago (WIT). I know all about the nonsense that goes on, I've been blue in the face complaining 10 years ago and it's still the very same today.

Maybe we should combine our resources and act upon it?

Sparkles:)

I heard the su wont allow an article in the campus newspaper on it...

2Bv¬2B

Sparkles:) wrote: »

I heard the su wont allow an article in the campus newspaper on it...

It's not as if anything will be done about it anyway, I'd be curious to know why SU wouldn't let the paper print it....

shapez

For those interested there is a response in todays News & Star regarding last weeks front page.

2Bv¬2B

shapez wrote: »

For those interested there is a response in todays News & Star regarding last weeks front page.

Oh yeah. I've seen that, however I think it's unfair that they wouldn't let it be printed in the college paper.

dlofnep

shapez wrote: »

For those interested there is a response in todays News & Star regarding last weeks front page.

Will check it out later, thanks

shapez

dlofnep wrote: »

Will check it out later, thanks

Somehow I get the feeling we'll be having a good discussion about it again!!

Yossarian_Lives

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

It's not as if anything will be done about it anyway, I'd be curious to know why SU wouldn't let the paper print it....

in all my time as a class rep in the college the SU has done its best to avoid major confrontation with the College Admin particularly with Byrne. it does make sense not to upset the people you have to work with on a day to day basis but now that student services are at risk etc will they stand up. with its current leadership, i doubt it. also i like to see the SU expenses and accounts id imagine they wud be interesting reading.

Sully

Sparkles:) wrote: »

I heard the su wont allow an article in the campus newspaper on it...

Where did you get that from? There has been no meeting re: the paper since the AGM where no objections were raised.

MitchKoobski

Sully wrote: »

Where did you get that from? There has been no meeting re: the paper since the AGM where no objections were raised.

yeah im agreeing with this, ive heard no issues with the paper at all.

Maverick2

There is a serious issue here that is being overlooked and that is free speech. Once the article was fair and correct, which I believe it was, it should be published. You may disagree with the expensses, you may not, but the fact is the Campus Times has been undermined continuosly since its inception and this is another example.

An Article was pulled from the CT and that Article was regarding Byrnes expensses. But the fact that the President of WITSU was the one who came down on the Campus Times says alot.

Whatever the money was spent on I feel it wasnt spent prudently and that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I wont be intimidated by any representative of WIT or WITSU, both of which are of the same ilk.

MitchKoobski

Where is all this coming from though about an article being pulled?

I dont wanna tell ayone theyre wrong , im pissed too, but id rather get a definitive yes that it was pulled and then id like to know who exactly said it?

dlofnep

Maverick2 wrote: »

There is a serious issue here that is being overlooked and that is free speech. Once the article was fair and correct, which I believe it was, it should be published. You may disagree with the expensses, you may not, but the fact is the Campus Times has been undermined continuosly since its inception and this is another example.

An Article was pulled from the CT and that Article was regarding Byrnes expensses. But the fact that the President of WITSU was the one who came down on the Campus Times says alot.

Whatever the money was spent on I feel it wasnt spent prudently and that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I wont be intimidated by any representative of WIT or WITSU, both of which are of the same ilk.

Interesting.

Maverick2

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Where is all this coming from though about an article being pulled?

I dont wanna tell ayone theyre wrong , im pissed too, but id rather get a definitive yes that it was pulled and then id like to know who exactly said it?

When the CT is published there will not be any article pertaining to Kieran Byrnes expensses. An Article was written, it was submitted and it was scrapped due to pressure from the Students Union and representatives of the College Authorities. Also, I was told that the class rep meeting that was due to go ahead last nite was cancelled for no apparent reason. Those who I was talking to were under the impression that it was to be held??? I am not a class rep but I can assure you if I was I would be raisng this as a matter of urgency.

shapez

Before we lose the run of ourselves here. Although everyone is entitled to their opinions. I do hope you have proof, concreate proof at that to back up your statements here.

Sully

As a member of the Journalism Society, its the first I heard of it. A member on the commitee was also unaware of the situation. I also recall being told at the AGM there would be little or no interference from the SU. Just waiting on one other person to contact me and ill take his word as final as there is no more people needing to be asked.

Doubt the Class Rep meeting has anything to do with this - not a rep this year, so no idea what the story there is.

MitchKoobski

Im a class rep this year and a member of the journalism society.I heard nothing.Nor have i been told about a class rep meeting yet.

Dissolvedaunion

Just joined this discussion so hear goes. I am a member of the Journalism committee. It is very true that there will be no article in the CT about the expences controversy. The President of the Union met with our editors and told them that the figures were wrong in The News and Star so therefore no article will be published. The President feels that she has the power to do this even though we have minutes from our AGM which says that the Union will have little to no involvement with the running of the CT. Therefore the position of the President must be carefully questioned and whether she is abiding by the SU Constitution in regards to having called no class rep in nearlly 8 weeks.

Sully

Dissolvedaunion wrote: »

Just joined this discussion so hear goes. I am a member of the Journalism committee. It is very true that there will be no article in the CT about the expences controversy. The President of the Union met with our editors and told them that the figures were wrong in The News and Star so therefore no article will be published. The President feels that she has the power to do this even though we have minutes from our AGM which says that the Union will have little to no involvement with the running of the CT. Therefore the position of the President must be carefully questioned and whether she is abiding by the SU Constitution in regards to having called no class rep in nearlly 8 weeks.

Your whole committee seems to have not been informed, which is disappointing. I still have not received a confirmation but what I did get was as good as.

Those figures in the News & Star are inaccurate. The FOI response stated so. I was at the AGM and the President was not present - I do believe that the member of the Union who was, stated he was not speaking on behalf of the Union and was more speaking about his position (open to correction). Still, I thought this issue was addressed last year.

Are the SU funding this in anyway?

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

Those figures in the News & Star are inaccurate. The FOI response stated so.

What are the figures then Sully? Enlighten us.

mouldyfitzy

"I do not dispute the facts presented as I trust the Institute’s FoI Officer’s figures. However, I do object to the spin and the lack of context. The expenditure given is not for a personal office where the Director sits all day isolated in lonely splendour. It was for a suite of rooms where other people also work; it was for the Director’s office where he works in one corner and the rest of the room is in constant use for meetings and hosting guests of the Institute; it was for the Institute Board Room and associated waiting room where meetings of Governing Body, Academic Council, Executive Board and the Management Co-ordinating Forum take place. Between these meetings the Board Room is frequently used for many other meetings, both live and video conferenced. Anyone who is familiar with public contracts knows that comparing the costs of public buildings with domestic buildings is absolutely disingenuous."

Taken from a letter to the editor of the WNAS.

Having actually viewed these facilities first hand i would have to say that im proud of them, they are top quality. And i think W.I.T. needs and deserves the best. For all the hard work Prof Byrne has done for the college i think the article is totally unfair, and as for people here calling for him to be sacked i think ye need to grow up, (and a comparison with him and John O Donoghue is insulting to say the least), fair enough i understand your frustrations in realtion to classes being cancelled and not havig the best software for your computers, however, i cannot understand your argument, the way ye make it out as if the money was in Byrnes back pocket and he chose to spend it on a shiney new office rather that have the most up-to-date equipment for students when clearly thats not the case. The Dep of Education funded the construction of the new building not Prof Byrne. He wanted the best facilities in W.I.T. just like im sure he wants all the computers to have the best equipment. People seem to think that the college have a flat budget of €1m for example and that Prof Byrne chose not to have a cosy fireplace than the newest software for the computers, if thats the way you think then you should really wake up because the system does not work like that. If you have an issue with one of your classes, then go to the class authorities to discuss it, if not resolved keep working your way up untill you speak with the Academic Board. And work to a resolution.

Nothing grinds my gears as much as people who complain and complain and complain but do not do anything to fix the issue. We Irish are great for that. But if you want something done, i.e. Change. Then get up off your ass and go and do something!

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

What are the figures then Sully? Enlighten us.

Did you even read the article or are you just interested in the spin factor? Re-read the article, it states clearly the figures are not 100% accurate. That may be the reason why the article was blocked (or partly).

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

Did you even read the article or are you just interested in the spin factor? Re-read the article, it states clearly the figures are not 100% accurate. That may be the reason why the article was blocked (or partly).

And I'm asking you what the exact figures are. If the figures are inaccurate, I would like to know what the accurate figures are. Either you know, or you don't know.

dlofnep

mouldyfitzy wrote: »

"I do not dispute the facts presented as I trust the Institute’s FoI Officer’s figures. However, I do object to the spin and the lack of context. The expenditure given is not for a personal office where the Director sits all day isolated in lonely splendour. It was for a suite of rooms where other people also work; it was for the Director’s office where he works in one corner and the rest of the room is in constant use for meetings and hosting guests of the Institute; it was for the Institute Board Room and associated waiting room where meetings of Governing Body, Academic Council, Executive Board and the Management Co-ordinating Forum take place. Between these meetings the Board Room is frequently used for many other meetings, both live and video conferenced. Anyone who is familiar with public contracts knows that comparing the costs of public buildings with domestic buildings is absolutely disingenuous."

Taken from a letter to the editor of the WNAS.

Having actually viewed these facilities first hand i would have to say that im proud of them, they are top quality. And i think W.I.T. needs and deserves the best. For all the hard work Prof Byrne has done for the college i think the article is totally unfair, and as for people here calling for him to be sacked i think ye need to grow up, (and a comparison with him and John O Donoghue is insulting to say the least), fair enough i understand your frustrations in realtion to classes being cancelled and not havig the best software for your computers, however, i cannot understand your argument, the way ye make it out as if the money was in Byrnes back pocket and he chose to spend it on a shiney new office rather that have the most up-to-date equipment for students when clearly thats not the case. The Dep of Education funded the construction of the new building not Prof Byrne. He wanted the best facilities in W.I.T. just like im sure he wants all the computers to have the best equipment. People seem to think that the college have a flat budget of €1m for example and that Prof Byrne chose not to have a cosy fireplace than the newest software for the computers, if thats the way you think then you should really wake up because the system does not work like that.

Is that you Kieran?

If you have an issue with one of your classes, then go to the class authorities to discuss it, if not resolved keep working your way up untill you speak with the Academic Board. And work to a resolution.

We did have an issue, and we did take it to our course leader - who was told that the person in charge of funding would not even meet with them regarding the lack of funds for classes, and classes being cancelled due to "lack of funds".

Kind of hard to work to a resolution when the person in charge of funding won't even meet with our course leader.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

And I'm asking you what the exact figures are. If the figures are inaccurate, I would like to know what the accurate figures are. Either you know, or you don't know.

I got the impression you were questioning me in response to my comment that the papers figures were not accurate. I have not followed up on this, as I think the article itself smacked of tabloid style reporting. In addition, I am not sure the exact prices are available even for a FOI request.

I am disappointed with the college paper not being given permission to run a story but until I find out what the article was and speak to those involved, it would not be fair of me to comment. I write for the campus times and I would hate to see the paper being shoved in a "PC" style.

dlofnep wrote: »

We did have an issue, and we did take it to our course leader - who was told that the person in charge of funding would not even meet with them regarding the lack of funds for classes, and classes being cancelled due to "lack of funds". Kind of hard to work to a resolution when the person in charge of funding won't even meet with our course leader.

Thats what your Student Union body is for. I cant see a small group of students being given permission to speak with the financial controller! Some course leaders have already been part of a discussion on finances (to the best of my knowledge) and these were also discussed in front of class reps in attendance at such meetings.

The Department of Education hands out the money on what can and cant be spent on. If the college doesn't have it - don't whine at them, whine at the government who ****ed us over. If the college has it, and isn't spending it right - thats an entirely different matter.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

I got the impression you were questioning me in response to my comment that the papers figures were not accurate. I have not followed up on this, as I think the article itself smacked of tabloid style reporting. In addition, I am not sure the exact prices are available even for a FOI request.

How do you know that the figures are inaccurate if you don't have the accurate figures? Just curious.

Sully wrote: »

Thats what your Student Union body is for. I cant see a small group of students being given permission to speak with the financial controller!

It wasn't students requesting it, it was course leaders.

Sully wrote: »

The Department of Education hands out the money on what can and cant be spent on. If the college doesn't have it - don't whine at them, whine at the government who ****ed us over.

But it appears the college did have it.

Sully wrote: »

If the college has it, and isn't spending it right - thats an entirely different matter.

Which appears to be the case.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

How do you know that the figures are inaccurate if you don't have the accurate figures? Just curious.

Because the article which makes the claims has a quote to that effect. I think the article was making up their own quotes from a "professional".

It wasn't students requesting it, it was course leaders.

Not had the problem where I am anyway. Probably still not an issue for course leaders. More school heads.

But it appears the college did have it.

How do you know if the course leader never met the person responsible?