Accountability for Kieran Byrne?

MitchKoobski

Cant we all just get along and agree that the SU president was overstepping her boundaries by ordering the article be pulled?
she should have just informed the editor about the wrong figures and left it up to him.

shapez

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Cant we all just get along and agree that the SU president was overstepping her boundaries by ordering the article be pulled?
she should have just informed the editor about the wrong figures and left it up to him.

Who knows, she could have been told not to publish it. :rolleyes:

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

Because the article which makes the claims has a quote to that effect. I think the article was making up their own quotes from a "professional".

Well, unless you have the accurate figures - then there's nothing to be said.

Sully wrote: »

Not had the problem where I am anyway. Probably still not an issue for course leaders. More school heads.

How is the funding, and cancellation of classes of a specific course not an issue for that said course's leader? I can't actually believe you're trying to obfuscate the issue when I'm blatantly telling you, as clear as day that the head of funding refused to meet with our course leader.

Instead of condemning the lack of accountability, you obfuscate the issue. Why is this?

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, unless you have the accurate figures - then there's nothing to be said.

I think the same can be applied in your direction. It seems nobody has the accurate figures just yet and until then its all just speculation which could be one of the reasons why Campus Times were not permitted to run with it.

How is the funding, and cancellation of classes of a specific course not an issue for that said course's leader? I can't actually believe you're trying to obfuscate the issue when I'm blatantly telling you, as clear as day that the head of funding refused to meet with our course leader.

Instead of condemning the lack of accountability, you obfuscate the issue. Why is this?

Instead of spinning my posts, read them for what they are. Its possible that this is not how the system works in the college. Perhaps the issue of financing belongs to the school head. The course leaders bring the issues to the attention of the school head, who then has a meeting with the financial controller and try to address the problems.

We have two examples; one where the course leader was not involved in financial discussion and another where they were.

I am not saying for one moment that the issues should not be raised, but perhaps their is protocol for how they are raised. Perhaps in your department, this is not how its done. Is there a blanket ban on the issue, or was it just your course leader who was not directly allowed discuss it?

Sully

Well, an offical "statement" has been released - contradicting the above "member of the committee". Having checked into this, the statement confirms what I was made aware of at the time and will hopefuly put this issue to bed.

Hi all,

First of all well done to all those who contributed to the last issue,
it was well received on the ground. Quality and quantity of material
has increased since last year and we should be on track to up
frequency after Christmas. There should be plenty of copies around the
college, if they're missing from anywhere give us a bell. Second of
all is the issue below;

There seems to be a lot of malicious rumour floating about in
connection with the Campus Times and coverage about the cost of the
directors office. This e mail aims to clarify this.
We received an article (approx 200 words) on the matter from a member
of the journalism society. We ourselves deemed this article to be
unfair and sensationalist, not the direction we wish to take the
campus times. We decided not to print it. We did not receive any other
material on the subject. The rumours circulating say something along
the lines that we were prevented from publishing the article by the
students union, the college, the director.etc. This is not true. If
either myself or Joe did not have editorial control we would not be
involved in the paper. We have said this several times but some people
don't believe, or don't want to believe that this is the case.

So to put the matter to bed once and for all there will be a motion
asserting the editorial independence of the campus times at tomorrow
evenings Student's Union Class Council. If any members of the society
are class reps come and support the motion.

There will be a meeting of the JOURNALISM SOCIETY, next MONDAY 9th
NOVEMBER at 5;15pm in F30 on the Cork road. All these matters will be
discussed, the last issue of the paper critiqued, and the next issue
of the paper planned. Look forward to seeing you there!

Tadhg,
Joe,

MitchKoobski

and thus the matter is settled.

Maverick2

Before this thread comes to an end, I have a few questions that require answers.

Firstly, did the Union or any sabbat of the Union, President or otherwise, direct the Campus Times to remove the Article? (you may say that the above post clearly states that it was the editorail board that made the decision, but information is circulating to the contrary) and secondly, was there a letter sent from the Directors office to the studetns Union regarding the letter, if so, what was the contents of that letter?

when these questions are answered the whole issue can be "put to bed".

Perhaps the class rep council meeting will clear up the whole debacle...face to face dicussion is far more productive than masked comments...

MitchKoobski

Maverick2 wrote: »

Before this thread comes to an end, I have a few questions that require answers.

Firstly, did the Union or any sabbat of the Union, President or otherwise, direct the Campus Times to remove the Article? (you may say that the above post clearly states that it was the editorail board that made the decision, but information is circulating to the contrary) and secondly, was there a letter sent from the Directors office to the studetns Union regarding the letter, if so, what was the contents of that letter?

when these questions are answered the whole issue can be "put to bed".

Perhaps the class rep council meeting will clear up the whole debacle...face to face dicussion is far more productive than masked comments...

uh...well im gonna trust the editorial board on this one when it comes to the SU getting involved, that there was none. If the SU did try to step in then the editorial board wouldnt lie about it.

Not really sure what you mean by 'masked comments'.

I highly doubt there was a letter sent by the director.

Think about it, if an article was submitted to the campus times, the people who see it first and read it first are the editors. How exactly would the SU president or the director know about it?
The editors wouldnt turn around and hand it to them saying "look what was submitted". They read the article and deemed it unfit for print.

Sully

Maverick2 wrote: »

Before this thread comes to an end, I have a few questions that require answers.

Firstly, did the Union or any sabbat of the Union, President or otherwise, direct the Campus Times to remove the Article? (you may say that the above post clearly states that it was the editorail board that made the decision, but information is circulating to the contrary) and secondly, was there a letter sent from the Directors office to the studetns Union regarding the letter, if so, what was the contents of that letter?

when these questions are answered the whole issue can be "put to bed".

Perhaps the class rep council meeting will clear up the whole debacle...face to face dicussion is far more productive than masked comments...

Ill have to get back to you on the first one, as I cant recall what the position on that was (I was told, but dont recall).

With regards to the director - Yes a letter was sent. This was discussed at the AGM. If you are writing an article on somebody or some WIT service, you must first give them a copy of the article and give them a right to respond. This was the case here.

The director nor the college did not order the editoral team to drop the article. They decided that the article was biased and unfair so pulled it (as is their duty). Nobody else had an article, so none was printed. The editors have stated that if the case was they were ordered to drop. If an article is sent in for the next publication and its still news worthy, it will be printed.

sparkling sea

If they are (are they I know they used to be) why is the Student Union involved in the college paper, don't they have enough to do sorting out student issues ? Surely there are enough students in the college to allow for an independent news paper?

WIT have a fully equipped studio that most radio stations in Ireland would be glad to call their own, yet is hardly ever been used - pure waste of money and it could have built for half the price.

No responsibility and even less accountability

AdMMM

Kev, could you put me in touch with the Journalism Soc? I was given an email address a while back but didn't get a reply. Am interested in writing some cracking articles while totally smashed.

Sully

sparkling sea wrote: »

If they are (are they I know they used to be) why is the Student Union involved in the college paper, don't they have enough to do sorting out student issues ? Surely there are enough students in the college to allow for an independent news paper?

Its just how it has always been. They pay for it and have sorted out advertising deals etc (contracts signed) for the paper. This is how it will be for the foreseeable future from what I can see. A motion was passed today in Student Council to allow for greater independence but once again our "member of the committee" failed to make such a stand on the matter.

WIT have a fully equipped studio that most radio stations in Ireland would be glad to call their own, yet is hardly ever been used - pure waste of money and it could have built for half the price.

No responsibility and even less accountability

I believe the station is very well equipped indeed but no society has touched it in a very long time. You hardly expect the college to run it - its a student thing! It was used in the past but I cant recall how it was funded.

A society for this was setup this year but the procedure with the BCI is slow moving. A license has been applied for with regards to getting this up and running. I think they should know by Christmas. I do believe plans for an internet radio were in motion, until the BCI give the full clear on broadcasting around parts of Waterford.

AdMMM wrote: »

Kev, could you put me in touch with the Journalism Soc? I was given an email address a while back but didn't get a reply. Am interested in writing some cracking articles while totally smashed.

thecampustimes[at]gmail.com. If you have issues getting a response, let me know and I will ensure someone calls you. The aim is for the paper to be printed more regularly after Christmas.

sparkling sea

A society for this was setup this year but the procedure with the BCI is slow moving. A license has been applied for with regards to getting this up and running. I think they should know by Christmas. I do believe plans for an internet radio were in motion, until the BCI give the full clear on broadcasting around parts of Waterford.

My sister was involved in college radio in Dublin, specifically with the licence application and they never encountered any difficulty getting a licence. She says all you have to do is follow the criteria set down by the BCI, send in your application (about three days work - I have just been informed) in within the right time frame and hey presto you get your licence. She got to see the studio in WIT and said the studio and transmission facilities were much better then those in a major Dublin university.

It would also be idea for the student union to try to detangle themselves from the newspaper - this would allow more students to get involved in the newspaper; several sides of an arguement might be put across without fear or favour; more people would have something to put on their CVs which is always handy; and they would be seen to be sending out a strong signal in that we should always strive for as free a press as possible. Do you think they are likely to do this?

Anyway if more points of view were put across, you'd get a better idea of whether or not people thought for example that money was being well spent or Kieran Byrne was doing a good job, etc.

alpha2zulu

Dont really want to get into the debate on this but I thoought it was ironic how a totally nonsense piece about the new Suir Bridge having to be demolished due to wrong concrete being put in made it into the paper, when in fact the bridge in question is on the unopened M9 in north Kilkenny, yet not even a whisper about the whole expenses debate.

It has been quite a talking point amongst students and staff so I would have thought at the very least a mention would have been made about the potential discrepencies in the original expenses figures mentioned by the News and Star instead of having a see no evil hear no evil approach.

Anyway with almost 2800 hits on this thread,its bound to have been spoted by somebody in the Union or paper by now.Why can't a rep of the Union or the paper come on here and answer some of the questions posed because theres obviously an appetite amongst students here to fully understand the nature of the relationship between these two groups.

A society for this was setup this year but the procedure with the BCI is slow moving. A license has been applied for with regards to getting this up and running. I think they should know by Christmas.

Was there a radio society at the open day?, would have joined myself if I saw them there. It would be great to see it up and running again before the end of the year.

sparkling sea

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Dont really want to get into the debate on this but I it was ironic how a totally nonsense piece about the new Suir Bridge having to be demolished due to wrong concrete being put in made it into the paper when in fact the bridge in question is on the unopened M9 in County Kilkenny, yet not even a whisper about the whole expenses debate.

It has been quite a talking point amongst students and staff so I would have thought at the very least a mention would have been made about the potential discrepencies in the original expenses figures mentioned by the News and Star instead of having a see no evil hear no evil approach.

Anyway with almost 2800 hits on this thread,its bound to have been spoted by somebody in the Union or paper by now.Why can't a rep of the Union or the paper come on here and answer some of the questions posed because theres obviously an appetite amongst students here to fully understand the nature of the relationship between these two groups

Couldn't agree more

Sully

sparkling sea wrote: »

My sister was involved in college radio in Dublin, specifically with the licence application and they never encountered any difficulty getting a licence. She says all you have to do is follow the criteria set down by the BCI, send in your application (about three days work - I have just been informed) in within the right time frame and hey presto you get your licence. She got to see the studio in WIT and said the studio and transmission facilities were much better then those in a major Dublin university.

Its not an instant approval as you seem to be suggesting. The application has been sent in and they are awaiting direction from the BCI. Perhaps being in Dublin your sister was able to take advantage of quicker approving time or perhaps the procedure has changed. There is no disputing that an application has been sent and work is in progress to get it up and running asap (though, very slow progress from the current committee). With regards to facilities, I am not familiar with whats good etc. and I cant recall what the former radio workers explained to me about how it was funded etc. At the end of the day, does it really matter who got the best equipment?

It would also be idea for the student union to try to detangle themselves from the newspaper - this would allow more students to get involved in the newspaper; several sides of an arguement might be put across without fear or favour; more people would have something to put on their CVs which is always handy; and they would be seen to be sending out a strong signal in that we should always strive for as free a press as possible. Do you think they are likely to do this?

There is absolutely nothing stopping any individual sending in articles, responding to other articles and having a bit of banter. The problem is, it seems not many people are bothered enough. The students union have agreed to step back and leave the editorial to the editors. There is no such thing as "fear or favour" for the paper but of course, all articles must be fair and should not be full of mis truths, completely out of order or content which could land the author/editor/union in hot water.

I personally, and I know everyone involved in the paper agrees with me, would love to see much much more people send in any articles they want to the paper. Regular slot or the odd slot - whichever they want. The paper welcomes everyone to send in their content and make the paper a real success. In fact, ill create a new thread with dates etc. on submission deadlines and reminders to drum up some support. Ill also propose notifications are put up around the college at our meeting on Monday.

Anyway if more points of view were put across, you'd get a better idea of whether or not people thought for example that money was being well spent or Kieran Byrne was doing a good job, etc.

Only one person sent in an article on the director. The original article was questionable as it is, without the need for a second article to be even worse.

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Dont really want to get into the debate on this but I it was ironic how a totally nonsense piece about the new Suir Bridge having to be demolished due to wrong concrete being put in made it into the paper when in fact the bridge in question is on the unopened M9 in County Kilkenny, yet not even a whisper about the whole expenses debate.

Skipped the article, thanks for telling me about it. Ill look into it. There were mistakes in the first edition due to the editors having various issues delaying the approval of content. I understand the editors also were limited time wise so did not print all articles or did not verify others as they should have. In general, we plan to have a meeting before each edition is published to spot such mistakes but this never happened for the first edition.

Only one person submitted an article on the expenses, the editors decided to pull it because it was completely out of order and could not be printed in its current form. Nobody else submitted an article and the editors have told me clearly they would have preferred something about it was printed. If its still current news come January, maybe someone will send in an article about it.

It has been quite a talking point amongst students and staff so I would have thought at the very least a mention would have been made about the potential discrepencies in the original expenses figures mentioned by the News and Star instead of having a see no evil hear no evil approach.

Agreed, but I think I explained this fairly well above.

Anyway with almost 2800 hits on this thread,its bound to have been spoted by somebody in the Union or paper by now.Why can't a rep of the Union or the paper come on here and answer some of the questions posed because theres obviously an appetite amongst students here to fully understand the nature of the relationship between these two groups.

Ask away, at the moment I am the best you have. Directly involved in the paper and will happily address any question put to me regards the paper.

Was there a radio society at the open day?, would have joined myself if I saw them there. It would be great to see it up and running again before the end of the year.

Sure was. On both campuses. Do you need a contact email?

AdMMM

Could you pass that contact email onto me as well Kev, I've been told I have a lovely face for radio. Turns out the address I was originally given for the Journalism Soc was the wrong one, so hopefully I'll hear something back from them before too long!

sparkling sea

Its not an instant approval as you seem to be suggesting. The application has been sent in and they are awaiting direction from the BCI. Perhaps being in Dublin your sister was able to take advantage of quicker approving time or perhaps the procedure has changed. There is no disputing that an application has been sent and work is in progress to get it up and running asap (though, very slow progress from the current committee). With regards to facilities, I am not familiar with whats good etc. and I cant recall what the former radio workers explained to me about how it was funded etc.

Sorry if I gave the impression that approval was instant, I know that there is a waiting time involved, but the BCI usually let you know how long you will be waiting to find out. Also the application process itself is not that difficult once you follow the template and guidlines. The application procedure itself hasn't changed, so hopefully it will be up and running soon.

At the end of the day, does it really matter who got the best equipment?
Only with regard to money and/or facilities being wasted or left unused.

Sully

sparkling sea wrote: »

Sorry if I gave the impression that approval was instant, I know that their is a waiting time involved, but the BCI usually let you know how long you will be waiting to find out. Alo the application process itself is not that difficult once you follow the template and guidlines. The application procedure itself hasn't changed, so hopefully it will be up and running soon.

As I said, they hope to have the application decided before Christmas. 3 days work on an application, to be fair, is a fair bit of work.

Only with regard to money and/or facilities being wasted or left unused

Nothing the college can really do about that.

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

Could you pass that contact email onto me as well Kev, I've been told I have a lovely face for radio. Turns out the address I was originally given for the Journalism Soc was the wrong one, so hopefully I'll hear something back from them before too long!

I have: witradio[at]gmail.com written down, but never used it!

Also, Journalism Society meeting today. Monday, at 5.15pm in F30. That's the corridor behind spar, just beyond the two sets of double doors and on your right.

sparkling sea

As I said, they hope to have the application decided before Christmas. 3 days work on an application, to be fair, is a fair bit of work.

Hope it all goes well, 3 days a fair bit of work

Nothing the college can really do about that.

They could have learned a lesson from wasting money on high spec equipment that they didn't need and applied this to their later projects.

shanemul

sparkling sea wrote: »

My sister was involved in college radio in Dublin, specifically with the licence application and they never encountered any difficulty getting a licence. She says all you have to do is follow the criteria set down by the BCI, send in your application (about three days work - I have just been informed) in within the right time frame and hey presto you get your licence. She got to see the studio in WIT and said the studio and transmission facilities were much better then those in a major Dublin university.

I am currently the secetary of the WIT Radio Society. Having spoke with each Student Radio station in the country it is not as easy as your sister says it is. The last student Radio station to go on the air was Belfield in UCD who for the year before transmitted on the Internet. Every other college radio station employs a full time station manager the puts huge cost on the radio station. We are trying to avoid this and have it running 100% volenteraly. We have our application to the BCI 96% finished and are just tieing up loose ends. At the moment we are looking at broadcasting in the new year hopefully on the radio and if not online. So keeps your eyes and ears open and well be giving out more info soon.

sparkling sea

shanemul wrote: »

Every other college radio station employs a full time station manager the puts huge cost on the radio station. We are trying to avoid this and have it running 100% volenteraly. We have our application to the BCI 96% finished and are just tieing up loose ends. At the moment we are looking at broadcasting in the new year hopefully on the radio and if not online. So keeps your eyes and ears open and well be giving out more info soon.

Sounds like you have everything in hand but if you need any help Radiowaves.fm is the place to go. Alot of people involved in all aspects of radio world in Ireland use this site and my sister says they got loads of useful info and help there. Looking forward to tuning in.

Sully

Mod Note::
Okay, time to put the mod hat on.

Lets now stop any further derailment of this thread - the topic is on that News and Star article and somewhat the Campus Times reaction to it. Everything else is off topic and should be instead directed into a new topic if you want to discuss it any further. So, from this point onwards, lets stick to the original topic at hand. One off responses to non-related posts can be done over PM if you prefer.

Thanks.

sparkling sea

Thought Kathleen Moore Walsh's reply to the protests about criticism of WIT speading was excellent. Its great to see a lecturer who's not afraid of open debate about issues relating to the college.

U GO GIRL:D

Sully

sparkling sea wrote: »

Thought Kathleen Moore Walsh's reply to the protests about criticism of WIT speading was excellent. Its great to see a lecturer who's not afraid of open debate about issues relating to the college.

U GO GIRL:D

What now?

bamboozle

prof Byrne and his 'intersting' expenses are back in the news, poor guys seems to be unaware that's trains run from Waterford to Dublin.

Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn was also briefed yesterday on the expenses controversy after documents released under the Act revealed details of expenses incurred by the president’s office in the past seven years.
These show the president’s office spent more than €100,000 on taxi fares – mostly between Dublin and Waterford – and more than €290,000 on hospitality. In excess of €134,000 was spent on fine art.
Mr Quinn issued a statement last night, saying he was aware of ongoing investigations into spending at the institute. Sources say the Minister is “dismayed’’ by the spending .
Last night , Prof Byrne insisted the spending represented “good value for money”. He told The Irish Times that a driver/taxi service he had used for trips to Dublin actually saved public funds as it was less expensive than mileage payments.

MitchKoobski

"Good value for money"

Oh Keiran, you crack me up!

dlofnep

It's all coming out now. As I said originally, the levels of spending wasn't printed. And those questioned me on it in disbelief.

Sully

I have a slightly different understanding and take of this. Its old news for me, because this news broke a good while ago in national media. I assume those who fed the information onto the media were not happy with the outcome, so kept pushing.

“The office also spent over €134,000 on fine art” – My understand was the art was not for the office specifically, but for the college as a whole. The IT Building (Walton Building) has various art pieces covering the bare brick walls on the three floors, plus some of the board/office rooms (not used by the president) within that building. They are fantastic and add a lovely touch to the building which is often used by various organisations outside of WIT (Failte Ireland for example) and local schools. I’m fairly sure the art is spread out around other places on campus also.

The presidents office is in a new building, but it did not come fully furnished. Therefore, expenditure went on fixing it up. The last time I saw the office, I would have said he didn’t over indulge in decorations as its pretty simple and I would have said incomplete. Again, most offices and lecturer halls in that building are fairly plain with bare brick walls (no plastering like a traditional building). The presidents office is one small part of a fairly big modern building. Considering the type of visitors the president has into his office, I think the head of the college should indeed have a well furnished and professional looking building.

Some other expenses in that article have directly benefited student societies. The president has funded, foot the bill, for some college societies major events within the college. Its part of a discretionary budget which was channelled into a lot other areas within the college that has no direct benefit or impact for the president.

Personally speaking, I think the president has done fantastic work for WIT and would be highly regarded amongst various students. He has pulled in a lot of overseas students who have had a significantly positive impact of the college economy (probably and most likely paying most of those bills back a few times in one year with the money spent in the college) and the local economy.

I just hope that the other expenses are genuine and are not damaging to the college. Any abuse of funds or expenses should not be tolerated and I hope this investigation comes back that it was all aboveboard. Sadly, this investigation wont make the impact on the media if its positive and downplays the implications and ideas behind some.

As for the transport expenses, no idea. Thats the only new bit of news.