Hate the English??

Namlub

trad wrote: »

600 years is hard to forget

Really? I can barely remember 2007

Redpunto

that accent just drives me up the wall - thats enough for me to hate them:D

Elliemental

Redpunto wrote: »

that accent just drives me up the wall - thats enough for me to hate them:D

That accent? English accents are all regional, theres several of them.


And really, Rebelheart, if you find the term British Isles so offensive, its` because you choose too. I don`t care what any Elizabethan soothsayers (and honestly, that is all John Dee was), claim.

Rondolfus

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I use miles for the same reason for the same reason I don't pop out for 1.7597 litres

But you would pop out for 2 litres of milk. I hope beer goes metric too.

Miles is really only used by the older generation in Ireland. Its all kms now thank god. Far more logical than miles.

Namlub

Redpunto wrote: »

that accent just drives me up the wall - thats enough for me to hate them:D

Elliemental wrote: »

That accent? English accents are all regional, theres several of them.

Exactimundo, elliemental.

Elliemental

I`m sorry, ignore me. This thread is starting to make me feel slightly on edge.

robinph

Rondolfus wrote: »

Miles is really only used by the older generation in Ireland. Its all kms now thank god. Far more logical than miles.

Who you calling old?

Fratton Fred

Rondolfus wrote: »

But you would pop out for 2 litres of milk. I hope beer goes metric too.

It would just be an excuse to put the prices up tbh, or we would end up payin for a pint and getting 500ml.

Jim236

Elliemental wrote: »

if you find the term British Isles so offensive, its` because you choose too.

Do you not choose to not take offence?...

thomond2006

I don't hate "The English".

I hate how they invented Cricket, the most boring sport on earth behind baseball.

Rounders FTW

Hydroquinone

For anyone who finds the term "British Isles" offensive, what are your emotions when you hear the term "The Irish Sea"?
Proud?
Delighted?
Whatever the opposite of offended is?

Has anyone ever heard anyone whinge about the Irish Sea being called the Irish Sea, in the same way we've all heard certain people whinge about The British Isles?
I know I've not, but maybe I live in a bubble.
Anyone?

Kev_ps3

The British Isles is a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe that includes Great Britain, Ireland and numerous smaller islands.[7] There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and Ireland.[8] The British Isles also includes the Crown Dependencies of the Isle of Man and, by tradition, the Channel Islands, although the latter are not geographically part of the island group.[9]

The term British Isles is controversial in relation to Ireland,[7][10][11] where there are objections to its usage due to the association of the word "British" with Ireland. The Government of Ireland discourages its use,[12][13] and in relations with the United Kingdom the words "these islands" are used.[14][15] Although still used as a geographic term, the controversy means that alternative terms such as "Britain and Ireland" are increasingly preferred.

Think its time we stopped using this out-dated description of the Islands.

Resi12

Really if this thread has done anything it has shown me what little is left of our culture, it's basically confined to the west where people are referred to as boggers/still living back in time. So it makes me laugh when people act all patriotic yet look down on the Gaelteacht(Spelled right?). The rest of Ireland seems to borrow heavily not only from england's culture but also america's.

Johnny Utah

British Isles? Southern Ireland?

LOL, now who's living in the past?

Johnny Utah

DoireNod wrote: »

One of my buddies said he was mistaken for being Spanish and South African when he spoke. And yes, I had a positive experience in Germany when I said I was Irish. A friend of mine was being harassed by a big German dude who heard him speaking English. He was accusing us of being English (in German) and I told him to catch himself on and that we couldn't be any less English if we tried. When I told him we were Irish he apologised profusely.

Can't see why the Germans wouldn't welcome their English visitors with open arms?

Johnny Utah

Terrontress wrote: »

Who else was fighting against the Germans following the fall of Paris and before the bombing of Pearl Harbour and Barbarossa?

The Commonwealth states I suppose but that was driven from London. I don't think it is an unreasonable assertion that for part of the war the UK stood up to the Nazis alone.

The Yanks and Soviets only joined WW2 after being attacked.

Hitler was also not only interested in Mainland Europe. The war spread in to Africa. He wanted global domination. Do you think if he had successfully invaded Russia he would have stopped at the Caucasus line?

Many Irish rubbed their hands with delight at the thought of a Nazi led world. The IRA even lit fires in the hills around Belfast to guide the German bombers in and as a result Belfast suffered the second heaviest aerial bombardment in the UK after London. Following the fall of many of the Nazi propaganda radio stations, Irland-Redaktion continued to send long wave Nazi broadcasts to Europe, encouraging young men and women to bear arms and give up their lives in an already lost war.

It's a wonder that it is not the English who hate the Irish for the behaviour of our forefathers.

Whether you like to admit it or not, the US was involved before Pearl Harbour. Under the Lend-Lease deal, the States effectively armed Britain for free when they were running out of arms and facing defeat. The UK could never stand up to the Nazis alone; both Britain and France declared war on Germany.

You cannot say for certain that Hitler wanted global domination, maybe he did as he was a megalomaniac, but we'll never know for certain. It was suicidal for the Nazis to attack Russia; they could never compete with the numbers of the Red Army, and the climate was also against them.


Have a look at this article by the writer FW Engdahl:
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/History/MacKinder/mackinder.html

Engdahl believes the British connived to cause a war between the Germans and Soviets, the objective being to destroy the power of Germany for good while also weakening the Soviets. He believes they succeeded brilliantly.






As for Ireland, we were a neutral country during WWII. Dev recognised that we were a small, isolated country which had little defence so he had to play both sides. He did it brilliantly.

Terrontress wrote: »

Of course, I have mentioned it in an earlier post.

Lots of men from the free state were hoping for the Third Reich and the holocaust to come to the island of Ireland in the form of a Quisling government.

Do you see what I am getting at? Firstly it was the actions of previous generations which came before us so we cannot be blamed on them just as today's English cannot be blamed on the past.

Secondly not every Irish person was ready to sign up to the SS, although condolences for Hitler's death might make you thien otherwise. Just as not every English person was not responsible for the actions of their ruling classes in Ireland.

As for signing the book of condolences, it was merely a two-fingered salute to that drunken buffoon Churchill for all his bullying and intimidation during the war. For all his faults, Dev was quite astute in keeping Ireland neutral and avoiding this nest of vipers.

Terrontress

I think the UK might still be paying off their wartime debts to the Americans from before their entry. Or maybe I heard it was paid off recently. The US did very well from the Uk being at war.

All my point is, and has been, is when people asked why do English go on about the war so much when it was the Americans that won it or the Soviets that won it is that there was a period, following the fall of France, that the UK was fighting the Nazis alone. That is something for them to be proud of because time has since told of the ruthlessness of the Nazis and they took the lead there. Furthermore, they made massive sacrifices during the conflict even when the Americans and Soviets came on board. Surely you cannot argue with that.

There is an element of rose tinted spectacles certainly from the British. Old people talking about the blitz spirit when the reality was burglaries, looting and rapes had never been so high. Also casual sex with American airmen seems to be explained with a "there was a war on, what were to do?".

I think Ireland has been very favourably judged following WW2, having shirked her responsibility, maintained strong relationships with Nazi Germany, 2 fingers to Churchill or not, and allowed strong pro-Nazi elements to develop in Ireland. Luckily Guinness has stepped in to create the image of Ireland on a global stage and "The Emergency" has been left out.

Wompa1

Terrontress wrote: »

I think the UK might still be paying off their wartime debts to the Americans from before their entry. Or maybe I heard it was paid off recently. The US did very well from the Uk being at war.

All my point is, and has been, is when people asked why do English go on about the war so much when it was the Americans that won it or the Soviets that won it is that there was a period, following the fall of France, that the UK was fighting the Nazis alone. That is something for them to be proud of because time has since told of the ruthlessness of the Nazis and they took the lead there. Furthermore, they made massive sacrifices during the conflict even when the Americans and Soviets came on board. Surely you cannot argue with that.

There is an element of rose tinted spectacles certainly from the British. Old people talking about the blitz spirit when the reality was burglaries, looting and rapes had never been so high. Also casual sex with American airmen seems to be explained with a "there was a war on, what were to do?".

I think Ireland has been very favourably judged following WW2, having shirked her responsibility, maintained strong relationships with Nazi Germany, 2 fingers to Churchill or not, and allowed strong pro-Nazi elements to develop in Ireland. Luckily Guinness has stepped in to create the image of Ireland on a global stage and "The Emergency" has been left out.

Well said..you stick it to both sides! Hrumph!

ejmaztec

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Whether you like to admit it or not, the US was involved before Pearl Harbour. Under the Lend-Lease deal, the States effectively armed Britain for free when they were running out of arms and facing defeat. The UK could never stand up to the Nazis alone; both Britain and France declared war on Germany.

The Americans never did anything for anyone for free.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

As for Ireland, we were a neutral country during WWII. Dev recognised that we were a small, isolated country which had little defence so he had to play both sides. He did it brilliantly.

All that De Valera did brilliantly was to keep Ireland in a worse position than it had been pre-independence, and suck up to the Catholic church. The peasants were well and truly screwed by the pair of them, and those that wanted something better, left the country.

As for his actions during WW2, the Irish hierarchy has probably spent 60 odd years trying to make him look good.:pac:

getz

ejmaztec wrote: »

The Americans never did anything for anyone for free.



All that De Valera did brilliantly was to keep Ireland in a worse position than it had been pre-independence, and suck up to the Catholic church. The peasants were well and truly screwed by the pair of them, and those that wanted something better, left the country.

As for his actions during WW2, the Irish hierarchy has probably spent 60 odd years trying to make him look good.:pac:

i cannot make up my mind if de valera was very lucky or a idiot, by allowing the german u-boats to use irish ports,he risked being invaded by both the americans and british[both were in northern ireland at that time] it was good he backed off the came in to help the allieds on D -day.

ejmaztec

getz wrote: »

i cannot make up my mind if de valera was very lucky or a idiot, by allowing the german u-boats to use irish ports,he risked being invaded by both the americans and british[both were in northern ireland at that time] it was good he backed off the came in to help the allieds on D -day.

I didn't know that De Valera took part in that. I thought that when they were out saving Private Ryan, he was back in Dublin, Saving Face.

getz

Rondolfus wrote: »

How convenient. Just ignore the Celtic, Anglo and Saxon traditions that exist throughout the rest of Europe. That might contradict your point lol




English Football and Fish&Chip shops hardly constitute culture. English Football is now an interntaional franchise and a poster boy for globilisation. Fish and Chip shops, which in Ireland are run by mainly by Italians, are remarkably similar to the fast food shops around the world. Are you seriously saying a fast food shop is representative of culture?? Have you heard of McDonalds and Burger King?? Far more people eat at these AMERICAN outlets than anywhere else.






Really?? have you ever visited Belfast. If you had you would see two distinct ethnic groups, one British , one Irish. Besides geographical location doesn't imply a natural cultural connection. Look at mainland Europe. "We are all connected"?? Sounds like a mobile phone advert, and its equally as shallow. Just another one of your sweeping unsubstantiated statements.





Total rubbish, proximity does not mean we are cultrually connected. Kilometers ( Which is what we use in Ireland by the way), means nothing in the modern age. America has more infleunce via media such as movies etc than Britain. Take a walk around D4 and hear all the AMERICAN accents of the teenagers. Its a sad but true reality of American driven globilisation. But again, this is not true culture. Also bloodlines??? There are about 5 times the number of people in the USA with Irish Blood than in Britain. The Irish ethnic group in America is second only to that of the Germans.



You say regional, but in Irelands case its nationalistic. Furthermore the linguistic structures used in Irish writing is not used in British writing. For example Hiberno-English uses tenses adopted directly from Irish.



This proves to me that you have an agenda. Its clearly a ridiculous statement. Yes Trad Irish music is similar to English Trad. The only differences are the instruments, the style, the rythm, the dancing etc etc LOL LOL




British Isles???? LOL LOL Are you sure you're Irish?? That term is officially discouraged in Ireland. Even the National Geographic magazine stopped using it in 2008 becuase it implies political ties. As for clothes, since when has Armani, Nike, Adidas, Timberland etc etc etc been British? Again, this is globilisation, something which I think you don't fully grasp.



Lol lol of course ! Becuase I don't follow your narrow minded pro-British ferver, I must be a uneducated untravelled fool. Sadly for you the reality is quite the opposite. All the "strong similarities" you mention are results of American driven globilisation. You also use the term "OUR" as if me and you are from the same stock. We are obviously not. Its not your defence of England that leads me to believe your not Irish, its your use of terms such as MILES and British Isles. You also seem to have limited knowledge of Irish culture and make sweeping generalistions that are clearly innacurate eg Irish and English trad music. If you are Irish, I still believe we are VERY different breeds of Irish people. But Im confident my breed of people are in the majority.

i cannot believe that in to -days world the irish people still believe that only they have a irish culture,ever since records began,the irish have come over to england, even at one time they ;divided the country into estates,when the irish people talk about the great irish culture writers the names used are,bram stoker,jonthan swift, james joyce,flan obrien,oscar wild,william butler,yeats,samuel beckett,seamus heanly,all who wrote books ect for the british nations[at that time]and not just for the irish,so in a way it is a british culture,may be brian onolan,peig sayers, muiris osuilleabhain,and mairtin odircain,could be said ;irish only,any culture that stand still will die,any town and city in england you can hear folk and traditional music thats the same as in ireland, just the words that have changed .lets face it we inter marry drink the same beer even drive on the same side of the road[i know the reason why that is but i wont go into it on this thread]. and speak the same language,most of the world cannot tell the difference between us because we all look the same

Redvers

getz, you're an enlightened person

Data_Quest

getz wrote: »

i cannot make up my mind if de valera was very lucky or a idiot, by allowing the german u-boats to use irish ports,he risked being invaded by both the americans and british[both were in northern ireland at that time] it was good he backed off the came in to help the allieds on D -day.

Could you please provide a source for "de valera allowing the german u-boats to use irish ports". As far as I know this was never Irish Gov policy? Ireland was a neutral country so it would be very unlikely that De Valera would have allowed u-boats to use Irish ports?

A Primal Nut

trad wrote: »

600 years is hard to forget

Its easy to forget if you weren't alive for any of it.

getz

ejmaztec wrote: »

I didn't know that De Valera took part in that. I thought that when they were out saving Private Ryan, he was back in Dublin, Saving Face.

i know it came as a supprise to me but on wiki it says,the treaty envisage a new system known as the dominion,though behind the scenes it worked closely with the ALLIES, for example the date of the D_DAY.

gurramok

I'm still trying to find those capital letters at the start of sentences in Getz's post

Hydroquinone wrote: »

For anyone who finds the term "British Isles" offensive, what are your emotions when you hear the term "The Irish Sea"?
Proud?
Delighted?
Whatever the opposite of offended is?

Has anyone ever heard anyone whinge about the Irish Sea being called the Irish Sea, in the same way we've all heard certain people whinge about The British Isles?
I know I've not, but maybe I live in a bubble.
Anyone?

No-one lives in the Irish Sea. How about we call these islands the Irish Isles where people live, bet that won't go down well with the British people and rightly so.

A Primal Nut

Data_Quest wrote: »

Could you please provide a source for "de valera allowing the german u-boats to use irish ports". As far as I know this was never Irish Gov policy? Ireland was a neutral country so it would be very unlikely that De Valera would have allowed u-boats to use Irish ports?

It was a question of what was benificial to Ireland. If they earn money from it, they would have done it, for both Britain and Germany. You can remain neutral by helping both sides just as you can by helping neither side.

I don't anything about the u-boats but he did, however, allow German spies to operate from Ireland and he sympathised with the German embassy upon the death of Hitler.

LordSutch

gurramok wrote: »

No-one lives in the Irish Sea. How about we call these islands the Irish Isles where people live, bet that won't go down well with the British people and rightly so.

Indeed, and that's why I used the term in Post#417 only in the context of describing climate.

The term UK is a political term (with population & borders), while the 'forbidden term' refers to the physical map/ climate/ precipitation/ of this archipelago, (without population nationality).

Lets move on .............

robinph

gurramok wrote: »

No-one lives in the Irish Sea.

Isle of Mann?