Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

Azza

Ramza wrote:

the sobat is a giant ****ing troll move in AE

Ramza

Jun_DP101 wrote: »

His what now?

Dee jay doesn't really have much tools to deal with characters in footsie range. That being said he's not a pure zoner, never was. His normals for the ground game are pretty bad. His sobat helped him alleviate pressure in the area where ppl can react jump fireballs/low poke imo.



Besides Dhalsim I don't see where this statement applies to the zoning characters in this game.

Btw you play much yang in cannes? Really want to pick him up in Ultra. His st. lk seems gdlk

His st.mk and slide. He should lack in this department anyway, his slide is great imo, amount of times I've been counter hit by that thing is insane

Guile? Sagat? Probably a lot more if I can be bothered to think. If you can get them in comfortable cr.MK range with ryu, it's a world easier. Corner sagat and poke all day, he has a really hard time with that, so does guile. But Sagat is like a hybrid so probably not the best example. You literally can close in on them where they are weak. Against deejay right now this doesn't hold true, which is why I think the nerf to the sobat is good, and the buff is really good too, really balances out the move

Azza wrote: »

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If it's anything like fighting Guile, Deejay is probably a worse MU for Bison tbh than Ryu :pac:


I played a tonne of Yang, his crossup is back pretty much, it's insanely good now, st.lk is sick again, he got some dmg back on rekkas and has new mixups and combo-ability, and not to mention dat walk speed, oh my days! Really solid character now, had lots of fun playing him

Cobelcog

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm not being smart Ramza, but I'd put money on AJ beating every single Dee Jay in the country at a ft5 with Ryu, including mine, and I'd bet against you.

And I'm not saying he's a better player than you.

I'd put down money too...


...on Big Gaskin

Jun_DP101

Just went into training mode and ye dee jay's slide is pretty hard to punish actually contrary to what I thought.

Ramza wrote: »

Guile? Sagat? Probably a lot more if I can be bothered to think. If you can get them in comfortable cr.MK range with ryu, it's a world easier.

Sagat struggles as well. Guile's pretty decent in footsie range

Ye can't wait to play yang in the new version. Can't get rekka fadc ultra down though, ****'s hard.

Azza

ramza wrote:

If it's anything like fighting Guile, Deejay is probably a worse MU for Bison tbh than Ryu

What are you smoking?

Ramza

Jun_DP101 wrote: »

Just went into training mode and ye dee jay's slide is pretty hard to punish actually contrary to what I thought.

Sagat struggles as well. Guile's pretty decent in footsie range

Ye can't wait to play yang in the new version. Can't get rekka fadc ultra down though, ****'s hard.

Yeah it's a great move. Guile is a character I feel comfortable at the poking range, still gotta respect boom but it's doable.

I can't understand why people can't do it It's just as simple as other ones, you're probably over complicating it It's probably the FADC timing out of the rekkas that's giving you trouble? It takes a bit of time to get used to that

Azza wrote: »

What are you smoking?

Last I checked, Bison - Guile was a struggle for Bison..?

The Hound

Stop losing to scrub deejays Ramza, Match up is free for Ryu.

Deejay is ASS!!!

Azza

Ramza wrote:

Last I checked, Bison - Guile was a struggle for Bison..?

Its not like fighting Guile. Dee Jays ability to zone is no where near Guiles level. The recovery of his fireball is much worse and he has standard charge time for his fireball.

Ryu zoning is at the very least as strong as Dee Jays in the Bison match up. To back that up Ryu has better footsies, better frame traps, better throw range, better damage, better wake up and better options select to cover Bison's wake up.

You complain about Dee Jays Sobat nullifying Ryu's C.MK. Well tough sh*t. Lets take this further by that logic, Sim's S.HP needs to so Guile and Sagat go can go back to game plan A of chucking projectiles. Lets remove all Dive Kicks so Sim can anti air and zone properly again, lets remove Sonic Boom so Bison can get in on Guile. Lets remove Blanka so T.Hawk doesn't have to face an 8-2 match up. Being forced into a game plan that doesn't suit you character is something your gonna just have to deal with it. All characters have to deal with it and just because Ryu is the company mascot for Capcom doesn't mean he gets a free buy.

TheMikenyan

Ramza

The Hound wrote: »

Stop losing to scrub deejays Ramza, Match up is free for Ryu.

Deejay is ASS!!!

No way free for Ryu, 6-4 easily

Azza wrote: »

Its not like fighting Guile.



You complain about Dee Jays Sobat nullifying Ryu's C.MK. Well tough sh*t. Lets take this further by that logic, Sim's S.HP needs to so Guile and Sagat go can go back to game plan A of chucking projectiles. Lets remove all Dive Kicks so Sim can anti air and zone properly again, lets remove Sonic Boom so Bison can get in on Guile. Lets remove Blanka so T.Hawk doesn't have to face an 8-2 match up. Being forced into a game plan that doesn't suit you character is something you're gonna just have to deal with it. All characters have to deal with it and just because Ryu is the company mascot for Capcom doesn't mean he gets a free buy.

Okay, I have no idea on the ins and outs of the deejay/bison matchup, so that's why I said "if" in my last post

I'm just saying the move is too strong in general. I know how SF works and that certain matchups are just bad :pac:. Don't make out like I'm clueless. I previously said that the MU in general is an uphill for Ryu, and that I'm okay with that fact, just saying that the nerfs were justified in response to the lads who were saying they were bad. That's how this whole discussion started. Never at one stage did I ever implicate any bias that Ryu shouldn't ever be on the receiving end of a bad MU.

Going to extremes with those examples, those are definitely not analogies for what I was saying with regards to Deejay vs Ryu, but whatever. I'm talking about how changing one aspect of a move was good, I'm not complaining about certain characters having moves to fit their character archetypes? Cmon Azza, you can't compare what I'm saying as the same thing as taking away sim's far HP or removing Guile's boom :pac:

Tonnes of moves get nerfed through various iterations of the game, but the integral game plan and character design stays the same for the characters. It's just the nature of the MU that makes it hard, and I have no issue with having a bad MU, it's just with regards to that one move which makes it unnecessarily hard for ryu. Which is why I'm glad it's gone, because it's not needed. Like the twins pressure in AE, they didn't need that, even though it was the character design. Having it the way it is now is fine, with regards to their dive kicks etc, it being nerfed was totally fine and still let them be pressure characters, they were just too strong. That's just one example. Like I said, MU will more or less be the same but more manageable, which I'm fine with. Think this discussion is pretty much exhausted. Said all there is to say, sick of repeating myself.

And I'm completely with you on the "tough ****" logic though, @ crying deejay players who got their OP crap removed :pac:

Some sick decapre footage to get back on topic

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/may/21/dafeetlee-goes-hard-decapre-console-build-ultra-street-fighter-4-combofiend-showcases-makoto-sanford-smug-zeus-more-join/

Azza

Did I just read a post that compares Dee Jays LK.Sobat to AE Twins dive kick pressure!!!! :eek:

Ramza

Azza wrote: »

Did I just read a post that compares Dee Jays LK.Sobat to AE Twins dive kick pressure!!!! :eek:

No? Re read my post I'm saying that some things just shouldn't be the way they are, that's what nerfs are for..so thx Capcom :pac: It does not need the lower body invulnerability. Twins didn't need all that OP ****. It's not like I'm asking capcom to delete the move from deejay's arsenal :pac:

jimmypenguin

DEEJAAY OP SINCE SSF2 REMOVE HIM FROM GAME.. IM CALLING CAPCOM!

The Hound

Ramza wrote: »

No way free for Ryu, 6-4 easily

I agree, its a tough mu for ryu. I find it tough for sagat and akuma too.

Deejay still ass though

The Hound

http://shoryuken.com/2014/05/22/capcom-drops-full-change-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ivs-console-release/

Latest Change list. Hope its the last

Sagat nerfs but w/e. Not sure about akuma, time will tell

Ramza

The Hound wrote: »

I agree, its a tough mu for ryu. I find it tough for sagat and akuma too.

Deejay still ass though

Deejay's very ass, just so effective in those MUs.

The Hound wrote: »

http://shoryuken.com/2014/05/22/capcom-drops-full-change-list-for-ultra-street-fighter-ivs-console-release/

Latest Change list. Hope its the last

Sagat nerfs but w/e. Not sure about akuma, time will tell

Why the feck did they nerf sagat's shots recovery?! That's mental. Look at Abel's buffs, damn

The Hound

Ramza wrote: »

Deejay's very ass, just so effective in those MUs.



Why the feck did they nerf sagat's shots recovery?! That's mental. Look at Abel's buffs, damn

Japanese sagat players dominating the arcades i reckon. I think its only high shot anyway

D4RK ONION

Dudley:
NJ.HP being the same as back and forward is 95% a good thing although it was a useful button in matches where the opponent could get way above you (like Vega).

Dat rose toss buff, too strong now :P

I have no idea what dart shot is. F.hp maybe? That's cool that it hits airbourne opponents.

And of course, Rolling thunder going further, and it doesn't say slightly. Very big buff.

Dudley is going to be insane if this is the final list. Whoop!

Makoto:
Abare Tosanami (UC2) only projectile invincible and throw invincible

This is huge, if she picks U2 now she only has one defence against a good meaty (apart from blocking :P) and that's Ex.Karakusa. Big risk with that move too. On the other hand she's now a 75% WUltra character, so taking it all together I think it's a buff.

EX Oroshi hitting airbourne opponents is amazing, like E.Ryu ending his combos in axe kick. Really nice way to hard knockdown in the corner after EX.DP juggle. Overall I think Makoto got better.

The Hound

Dart shot is F-Hk. His great overhead. The Ultra buff sounds scary. Bad enough trying to use fireballs against Dudley

Backdash with Makoto is best reversal

Sairus

On that change list:

Rose -
L, M, H, and EX Soul Spiral can now be used in air combos
Capcom, I dunno what you're smoking, but it sounds like good stuff.

Also, I totally missed this last time:
Soul Satellite (UC1) command input changed from 214214+PPP to 214214+KKK; recovery increased by 2 frames (2F → 4F)
My bad, Onion, you were right! Not really that bothered by it, but important to be aware of.

D4RK ONION

The Hound wrote: »

Dart shot is F-Hk. His great overhead. The Ultra buff sounds scary. Bad enough trying to use fireballs against Dudley

Ah, my bad. That's interesting as there are currently set ups for airbourne overhead hit in the corner. ATM you do them with FA >delay> overhead.

Backdash with Makoto is best reversal

Too right, my bad haha

Doyler01

This game is looking a whole lot classier.

FutureGuy

This is going beyond a fcuking joke now. They have nerfed him even more. U2 damage reduction and


Wait for it...


20 damage off knee shot. Hey Deejay players, we're going to make changes so we can get slightly more damage off your knee shot combos. Then were going to nerf the knee shot.

Doctor DooM

FutureGuy wrote: »

This is going beyond a fcuking joke now. They have nerfed him even more. U2 damage reduction and


Wait for it...


20 damage off knee shot. Hey Deejay players, we're going to make changes so we can get slightly more damage off your knee shot combos. Then were going to nerf the knee shot.

Lol, about 3 months ago Combofiend said (paraphrasing) "It's all buffs for Guile. We're going to find a way to make U1 more usable".

It's now hugely damage nerfed, starts up in 1 frame faster but lost invulnerabilty beyond that frame so it'll trade all the time.

It's possibly one of the most useless ultras in the game now!

I kinda get the feeling his wishes were over ridden in some cases. In fact, there's a bang of the AE changes off Ultra these days.

EDIT: Oh, they took away the juggle buff from U2 too.

Only good new thing there is the GHK buff, if it's extended enough to hit chars low that is a huge damage buff for Guile to be fair.

K.O.Kiki

Feck turtle characters tbh

Ramza

Yeah I've read somewhere or seen on a video or something that Guile's upside down kick is sick now, like it's active faster (not sure on that?), or goes airborne quicker, legit at blowing up buttons and cr.techs now. He got some good changes, the cr.jab buff is nice, makes the link to cr.mp easier now. I like the cr.MK change, that move's great. Don't understand why they'd nerf his health? Weird. And increased air throw range, Doom's gotta be happy about that Spose the most important thing is that they fixed his hurtbox on wakeup

Ken got some great buffs too, he was sick to play in Cannes. Apart from the ex tatsu bug in that build haha

Doctor DooM

Ramza wrote: »

Yeah I've read somewhere or seen on a video or something that Guile's upside down kick is sick now, like it's active faster (not sure on that?), or goes airborne quicker, legit at blowing up buttons and cr.techs now

That's a different move. His df HK has a new buff dealing with the fact it whiffs on a lot of things (you'll only see Guiles using it rarely because of it)

To be fair, if both those changes are still in (UDK and GHK hitting low) it makes him much, much more able to do damage. The UDK is a great frame trap of loads of his moves and leads to good damage. It was very disheartening in 2012 to correctly do the move, bait out your opponents throw tech and see them harmlessly whiff their cr lk beneath you.

I can also see why they'd nerf the U1 damage, it was one of the biggest damage moves in the game. st hp is focus cancellable, so he could get some crazy damage off of that.

Azza

The nerf to Bisons S. MP is bizzare. It completely negates the buffs it got. Virtually no use for it now.

The ultra 1 buff is also strange. Is it to encourage mashing it through block strings?

And Yun has got +1 lunge punch again!!!!

Ramza

Doctor DooM wrote: »

That's a different move. His df HK has a new buff dealing with the fact it whiffs on a lot of things (you'll only see Guiles using it rarely because of it)

Ah, my bad. That's a great change then

Azza wrote: »

The nerf to Bisons S. MP is bizzare. It completely negates the buffs it got. Virtually no use for it now.

That is really strange, will it still be usable in combos now?

Also, didn't Yun get his divekick buffed? Or was I dreaming when I read that? Also Sakura#s changes are quite good, just wish her EX Tatsu was at least 0 on block, don't get why it's +2, still a silly move

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

The nerf to Bisons S. MP is bizzare. It completely negates the buffs it got. Virtually no use for it now.

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