Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

weedfreedomtinp

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

You didn't mention anything here about the effect pure untouched fresh from the bud cannabis can have on schizophrenics. Seeing as you left out that well known fact I can only assume you're leaving out a lot of other harmful effects.

the effect of pure bud

aurelius79

Well I think that video went a bit too far but cannabis is known to cure many conditions or at least alleviate the symptoms of many conditions.

I won't comment on the effect of cannabis on sufferers of schizophrenia, as I don't believe there is even enough scientific data regarding the condition itself. Much of the science surrounding schizophrenia is speculative, mainly because diagnosis is dependant on the patients self-reported experiences and observed behavior.

Slugs

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Not neccsarilty true. I would be sceptical that legalising cannabis could get us out of this recession, but even if it could the government would not do it as it would mean they would never get re-elecetd because it would be an upopular decision. They could make tougher decisions that could get us out of this recession quicker but won't do it because they want to be re-elected. Its just as if the IMF come in, they will do what the governement wouldn't do to get us out of this recession as they wouldn't have to be re-elected and wouldn't care how popular they are. Our government are still hanging on to the possibility of being re-elected and them suddenly bringing up legalising cannabis would be the nail in the coffin for them, regardless of how much revenue it would generate.

Governments do not make decisions based on what is best for the people, they make decisions on what will keep them popular and get them re-elected. As such, even if legalising cannabis could generate huge amounts of revenue for the state, it would be political suicide and as such would never even be brought up.

I'd have to disagree with that. it might actually play out well fo FF if they legalised it. It shows their initiative for change, and would also show that they're a more liberal party, and could increase poll support.

weedfreedomtinp

aurelius79 wrote: »

Well I think that video went a bit too far

please explain how.. even legalize cannabis ireland has put it into there website ..


http://www.legalisecannabis.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134:the-cure-of-cancer&catid=25:medical&Itemid=116

North_West_Art

smoking pot is not illegal here in Toronto, and its been that way for a number of years. People are still relatively private about it; just because its not illegal, they dont go around stoned 24/7, they dont smoke it while driving, they dont smoke it on the street (that much), and the smoking ban in pubs and restaurants exists here also.

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either.

Amsterdam attracts large numbers of visitors because of the blend of legal prostitution and legalisation of canabis.

DublinWriter

North_West_Art wrote: »

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either.

Do you have actual coffee-shops there?

33% God

North_West_Art wrote: »

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either.

Decriminalisation =/= Legalisation. That's your problem. You can only get increased revenue if you can tax the stuff.

DublinWriter

33% God wrote: »

Decriminalisation =/= Legalisation. That's your problem. You can only get increased revenue if you can tax the stuff.

Of course you can. Basic VAT on coffee-shop sales and I'm sure there could also be a fixed excise levy as there currently is on wine.

weedfreedomtinp

North_West_Art wrote: »

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either.

i think it could happen here as we have a good tourism rate anyway , so i think it would boost it ,, u only have to stand on capel street Dublin / for 5 mins to see how many people go inside the head shops..

weedfreedomtinp

DublinWriter wrote: »

Of course you can. Basic VAT on coffee-shop sales and I'm sure there could also be a fixed excise levy as there currently is on wine.

exactly

Gurgle

North_West_Art wrote: »

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either.

I think you'll find there are a few geographical / border issues that differ between Ireland and Canada...
But still, I agree there wouldn't be a flood of tourism. There would be some benefit, possibly enough to offset what we lost with the €10 'Landing in Dublin' tax, but not enough to significantly improve our economy.

Where the exchequer would clean up would be on excise duty. There are approx 300,000 people in Ireland who smoke pot on a regular basis, spending between €50 and €300 per month on the stuff.

Amsterdam attracts large numbers of visitors because of the blend of legal prostitution and legalisation of canabis.

Prostitution is both legal and readily available in most of Europe.

Whats unusual in Amsterdam is the city-center location and 'wares on display' advertising.

RedPlanet

North_West_Art wrote: »

It has been suggested in this thread that Ireland's revenue could be enhanced by the flood of tourism created by the legalisation of canabis.... nonsense. It hasnt happened here, and it wouldnt happen in Ireland either

tbh that sounds like a failure of marketing.

aurelius79

North_West_Art wrote: »

smoking pot is not illegal here in Toronto, and its been that way for a number of years. People are still relatively private about it; just because its not illegal, they dont go around stoned 24/7, they dont smoke it while driving, they dont smoke it on the street (that much), and the smoking ban in pubs and restaurants exists here also.

Wrong. Possession and consumption of cannabis is still illegal in Toronto. Just because the police and courts are lenient does not make it legal to possess and consume.

http://blog.torontodefencelawyers.com/2009/12/is-marijuana-illegal/

masteroftherealm

aurelius79 wrote: »

Wrong. Possession and consumption of cannabis is still illegal in Toronto. Just because the police and courts are lenient does not make it legal to possess and consume.

http://blog.torontodefencelawyers.com/2009/12/is-marijuana-illegal/

The Ontario Court of Justice disagrees with you:

Ontario Court of Justice wrote:

R. v. Bodnar/Hall/Spasic 2007 Ontario Court of Justice

In R. v. Bodnar/Hall/Spasic, the Ontario Court of Justice followed the Long decision, holding that the prohibition against possession of cannabis in the Controlled Drug and Substance Act is invalid and of no force or effect. Hon. Justice Edmonson stated in his ruling that "there is no offence known to law that the accused have committed."

Mossticles

Do you have actual coffee-shops there?[/quote]

I was in Toronto nearly two years ago visiting a buddy. Was absolutely delighted to find a place called the 'HOT BOX CAFE'. Went in the door, through the first part which is a head shop, then into where there were colourful tables and chairs, serving decent milkshakes and the likes.

There was a vaporizer on every table, they didn't sell it but they hand you a clean hose if you bring your own. Then out the back are a few picnic tables where you can chill out and skin-up. How in pheck could a ritual like this be seen as harmful to society??

weedfreedomtinp

please let me know when the next dublin cannabis march is and i will be there with a van load of us..

Mossticles

weedfreedomtinp, when ya find out please let me know. If I'm back from South Korea I'll join you with another van load.....and another van load of people too

weedfreedomtinp

Mossticles wrote: »

weedfreedomtinp, when ya find out please let me know. If I'm back from South Korea I'll join you with another van load.....and another van load of people too

very nice , be good ,, this year 2010 in dublin has to be one to remember ,, think it might be May 9th 2010 will ask legalize cannabis ireland .. will keep all updated.

bildo

Why do stoners always come in vans?

thebman

bildo wrote: »

Why do stoners always come in vans?

Its green

oconcuc

MaceFace wrote: »

Are ya all mad?

Legalising weed? Have any of you being to Amsterdam? It is full of an unholy amount of European trash.
It is the only place in the world I have been where I heard open advertising for "Cocaine, Heroine, Ecstacy". Guys shouting it on the corners.
Do you think the criminals will fade away - no - they will just move on to something else (like the harder drugs).

And, who has ever gone to prison for canabis offenses?

Mr MaceFace see,

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/champion-sailor-jailed-for-growing-cannabis-1537661.html

This sentence was for 20 plants grown in an attic with a value of less than €13k (Mr. Reddy didn't challenge, as he should have, and as too few do, the absurd Garda over estimate in value). He had no previous convictions. Gardaí didn't think he would present a risk of repeat offender.

I was present during this hearing by accident as I was attending a preliminary hearing as an observer on behalf of FLAC for a minor cannabis possession charge sentence appeal (the 19 year old female in this case getting a criminal possession conviction affirmed for 9 grammes of herbal cannabis, and a €400 fine. It was also her first encounter with the Gardaí)

Ms. Justice Katherine Delahunt the presiding judge that day in the Circuit court, and if I may offer a word of warning to anyone who could potentially end up before her, be prepared for an appeal as this woman has a habit of giving manifestly unfair decisions.

An unreported case I followed saw Delahunt J. handing down a year long prison sentence for an assault charge. The man (30) had no previous convictions and no prior history with the Gardaí (for those of you who may quaff at the idea of unfair assault sentencing, sit down in the Dublin Circuit Court someday and see how easily ordinary scenarios escalate when alcohol is involved). The assault took place during a bar brawl, the victim was also convicted of assaulting a Garda that night (got a suspended sentence curiously). This was appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeal, who described the sentence as harsh and gave the man a suspended sentence.


For details on Garda over estimates see:

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/jun/21/gardai-falsify-the-value-of-drug-seizures/

I am writing my senior dissertation on the validity of the Misuse of Drugs Acts in a Natural Law context, if anyone interested would like to see it in May after I have it returned and assessed.

I am not a proponent of the "cannabis is safe" lobby but I have helped with research for Joseph Rowntree Foundation in their stat gathering exercise for comparison with the UK. There findings indicate a failure of prohibition laws to control usage rates among most vulnerable social groups. (in fact usage rates have risen dramatically since strict enforcement of crimalisation)

Their findings were also seriously critical of Government policy towards small scale domestic cannabis cultivation. See,

http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/domestic-cultivation-cannabis

For an interesting Irish Perspective see Professor Tim Murphy, Law Faculty UCC (currently on sebbatical and I cannot find the exact citations for his articles on drug policy in Ireland)

http://books.google.ie/books?id=zx422jZOYfkC&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=dr+Tim+Murphy+Law+drug+law&source=bl&ots=fYBCmVytQ9&sig=P3buSJb30Gcnmib42kVUXowgwls&hl=en&ei=BWFfS8fQNo2i0gSMh82fDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=&f=false

For those of you sympathetic to a hard-line approach to drug prohibition, there is not a single jurisdiction in the developed world that has succeeded in reducing usage rates through strict prohibition.

The reasons for cannabis, and other illicit substance abuse are significantly more complicated than law enforcement official either believe themselves or with the public to believe.

With particular regard to the harmful effects of cannabis, which much of the comments on this thread seem to be concerned with, Professor Nutt's and the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs' findings represent the most comprehensive and up to date findings and opinions of the foremost relevant researchers and academic in the world. They are (Prof Nutt was) the government appointed body charged with advising Ministers for Health and Justice on effective drug policy and regulation.

Cannabis is here already in Ireland. Has been for decades now, and is part of many people's daily lives. In my lifetime I have met one violent stoner, whereas the rest were "mellow" or "sleepy". I have been a irregular user of grass for the last 20 years. Regular in my teens and early twenties, and seriously irregular in my late twenties and thirties.

TBH I see no problem with cannabis, and would much prefer to see it legalised in this country, than the continued sale of alcohol. But doing that linking always causes conflict on discussions so probably should skip past.

I dont think legalising cannabis would affect either tourism or crime all that much. Its just not that much of a big deal any more. Or rather it shouldn't be. As for the health reasons, if that really was an issue both tobacco and alcohol would have been banned a long time ago. Its just the stigma of being a "drug".

Joey the lips

There was a guarda super on RTE discussing cannabis and the resulting crime from it. He said there is a common mis conception that people who smoke cannabis are mellow and relaxed. He said its usually the opposite especially in the teenage years.

Now having agreed that drink is a drug and believing that 2 wrongs dont make a right why would i support cannabis and its introduction when the stats are there for all to see,

Having said that we can argue the case for legalising and introduction till we are all dead. I hope it does not happen in my life time and i hope it does not happen in my kids life time.

Simple really. If you want to know what time of effect cannabis has had on an economy look at the growth of holland. No double digit growth there.

BluePlanet

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now having agreed that drink is a drug and believing that 2 wrongs dont make a right why would i support cannabis and its introduction

I am not aware of campaigns to similarly prohiit alcohol.
Would you support such moves?
If not, then why is it ok to have one very pervasive, destructive drug and not another?
Why should only Vinters get a windfall from our consumption preferences and not the budding cottage industry of marjuanna culivators?

Joey the lips

BluePlanet wrote: »

I am not aware of campaigns to similarly prohiit alcohol.
Would you support such moves?
If not, then why is it ok to have one very pervasive, destructive drug and not another?
Why should only Vinters get a windfall from our consumption preferences and not the budding cottage industry of marjuanna culivators?

They should not so yes i would support the banning of alchol if it ment protection of society. You learn as you mature that the best times in life are not when your drunk.

Is that your only arguement. "If i cant have mine your not having yours"

Problem solved. Ban them both. But no i never want cannibis introduced.


The arguement is still invalid. We are having enough trouble controling one drug without trying to control another.

Gurgle

Joey the lips wrote: »

There was a guarda super on RTE discussing cannabis and the resulting crime from it. He said there is a common mis conception that people who smoke cannabis are mellow and relaxed. He said its usually the opposite especially in the teenage years.

Its a cause and effect argument.

He says that cannabis makes teenagers into violent little thugs.
I says violent little thugs smoke cannabis too.

Joey the lips

Gurgle wrote: »

Its a cause and effect argument.

He says that cannabis makes teenagers into violent little thugs.
I says violent little thugs smoke cannabis too.

Meaning.... That more violent little thugs join the ranks of violent little thugs. Leading to gang war.... That was his precise point. Well done

stevoslice

Prohibition doesn't work, fact.

Never has, never will.
Didn't work in 1920s america when sale/distribution/consumption of alcohol was banned

Didn't work in ireland where practicing catholicism was prohibited for god knows how many years

Not working in most developed countries who have a close-minded approach to drug use.

Agree or disagree the only way to properly control the sale and distribution of cannabis in this/all countries is a proper system of regulation.

the first step towards this is decriminilisation, it is only after this that the push for legalisation should begin.

Joey the lips

thebhoy wrote: »

Prohibition doesn't work, fact.

Never has, never will.
Didn't work in 1920s america when sale/distribution/consumption of alcohol was banned

Didn't work in ireland where practicing catholicism was prohibited for god knows how many years

Not working in most developed countries who have a close-minded approach to drug use.

Agree or disagree the only way to properly control the sale and distribution of cannabis in this/all countries is a proper system of regulation.

the first step towards this is decriminilisation, it is only after this that the push for legalisation should begin.

Is this not the same arguement that started at the beginning..... Are we all that stoned that we cant actually progress an arguement.

Prohibition does not work - Fact. I dont support the black market - Fact.

Works fine for me! Unless of course you advocate supporting the black market which in that case you will have your time taken up justifying yourself rather than your support of cannibis.

stevoslice

Joey the lips wrote: »

Meaning.... That more violent little thugs join the ranks of violent little thugs. Leading to gang war.... That was his precise point. Well done

violent little thugs who take their first criminal footsteps by selling ****ty lung crippling glass sprayed cannabis or ****ty soapbar.

And to think, with no industry for the gangs to exploit, how would they make their millions... oh thats right, they wouldn't, which would mean that the young people who come from certain disadvantaged areas, wouldn't grow up seeing their only escape as a gang member/drug dealer which would lead to less organised crime...