M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

funnyname

antoobrien wrote: »

Well the planners decided that the plans submitted for the station at Rathmorrissy weren't safe, so I don't think it's vested interests that was the problem there.

Sound but shouldn't the planners work with the developer to make sure a service station which meets all their safety requirements can be built.

westtip

funnyname wrote: »

But wouldn't it make sense to have a service station at Rathmorrissy to benefit the M18 as well as the M6. People going westbound on the M6 would be able to grab a bite to eat and get fuel before heading off on a long journey rather having to wait until they get to the one on the M4. Also it will be benefit the people going eastbound as they will have just been on a long journey so they can get out and stretch their legs, again grab a bite to eat and refuel.

Do these planners never think of the bigger picture or is it all about vested interests?

Not only a service station but a bus interchange station as well - so buses can pull off on the north south (Say Sligo-Limerick route) and passengers can interchange with East West (Galway - dublin route).

A regional hospital would be the ideal location at the interchange - it would afterall only be 15 minutes from Galway, could provide critical A&E coverage for a very wide area, cancer services etc. In effect relocate the Galway hospital to the motorway junction and release the land from the hospital to for example- the university.

This junction will be accessible to the majority of people in the West and Mid west region within an hours drive, faster by emergency services. Make use of it! If public services are not centred on the land near this junction you can be dam sure we will see retailers move in with their large upturned shoeboxes as stores.

antoobrien

westtip wrote: »

Not only a service station but a bus interchange station as well - so buses can pull off on the north south (Say Sligo-Limerick route) and passengers can interchange with East West (Galway - dublin route).

A regional hospital would be the ideal location at the interchange - it would afterall only be 15 minutes from Galway, could provide critical A&E coverage for a very wide area, cancer services etc. In effect relocate the Galway hospital to the motorway junction and release the land from the hospital to for example- the university.

I dare you to go onto the Galway city forum and suggest that, you'll be crucified.

veryangryman

Hospital needs to be pedestrian access and near city centre as far as i know.

Plus the poor folk of West Galwway would have a canary at the thought of moving it

JupiterKid

westtip wrote: »

Not only a service station but a bus interchange station as well - so buses can pull off on the north south (Say Sligo-Limerick route) and passengers can interchange with East West (Galway - dublin route).

A regional hospital would be the ideal location at the interchange - it would afterall only be 15 minutes from Galway, could provide critical A&E coverage for a very wide area, cancer services etc. In effect relocate the Galway hospital to the motorway junction and release the land from the hospital to for example- the university.

This junction will be accessible to the majority of people in the West and Mid west region within an hours drive, faster by emergency services. Make use of it! If public services are not centred on the land near this junction you can be dam sure we will see retailers move in with their large upturned shoeboxes as stores.

And that's why this country is crying out for an impartial, transparent and professional land use planning system - to ensure that what you propose doesn't happen and that the key services remain where they should - in the the nearest large urban area - Galway city in this case.

irishgeo

veryangryman wrote: »

Hospital needs to be pedestrian access and near city centre as far as i know.

Plus the poor folk of West Galwway would have a canary at the thought of moving it

why move, why not build another one?

L1011

irishgeo wrote: »

why move, why not build another one?

Because we already have an unjustifiable number of hospitals for the size and population of the country.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

I dare you to go onto the Galway city forum and suggest that, you'll be crucified.

He wouldn't be cricified at all. The Motorway junction is a logical place for the Regional Hospital in Galway which nowadays happens to be the Regional hospital from Abbeyfeale in County Limerick all the way to Malin Head within HSE West. The University would salivate at the extra space, at the rate they have grown in the past 20 years they could probably take over the old regional by 2040.

The express bus hub is genius, Westtip has been plugging that one for yonks in this forum.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

He wouldn't be cricified at all. The Motorway junction is a logical place for the Regional Hospital in Galway which nowadays happens to be the Regional hospital from Abbeyfeale in County Limerick all the way to Malin Head within HSE West. The University would salivate at the extra space, at the rate they have grown in the past 20 years they could probably take over the old regional by 2040.

Why buy a new site when they already have a (practically) greenfields site in Merlin Park - which is just off the end of the M6.

Aidan1

The express bus hub is genius

Yup. Not alone could it be done relatively cheaply (in capital terms) if co-located with an MSA, it would also help pay for the MSA by delivering footfall to the franchises.

munchkin_utd

Aidan1 wrote: »

Yup. Not alone could it be done relatively cheaply (in capital terms) if co-located with an MSA, it would also help pay for the MSA by delivering footfall to the franchises.

And could double as a park and ride for folks from the great plains of deepest county Galway!

westtip

veryangryman wrote: »

Hospital needs to be pedestrian access and near city centre as far as i know.

Plus the poor folk of West Galwway would have a canary at the thought of moving it

City centres aren't were people are living these days, but we have inherited inner city infrastructure with old hospitals on old sites that cannot grow properly, my regional hospital suggestion on the M17/18/6 interchange was driven out of the loss of cancer services in Sligo and A&E in Roscommon, we need to stop thinking on a county level, West Galway would be perfectly well served by a regional hospital at this location if the bypass is also built. The idea would be to have this cross roads as a regional hub for some critical public services Getting to hospitals isn't about distance to the hospital its about travel time and quality of public transport - If the Western Regional was at the interchange why not have constant 15 minute shuttle buses to the hospital from the city centre, why not sit down with Taxi companies and agree fixed price reasonable fares to the hospital? etc etc.

How long would it take to drive to Rathmorrisey junction from Roscommon, from Athlone, Ballinasloe, Galway, Sligo, Claremorris, Knock, etc etc. All of these places will be less than an hour away (sligo town maybe pushing it a bit the new route would be about 85 miles but with motorway from north of tuam and good quality road at Knock and Claremorris, with a wet sail you an hour and a quarter woudl be very doable) - Its not about closing the Galway hospital its about having a state of the art brand new facility for the west including Galway city relocated to a location that is far more accessible to the entire region. If you want to see what I mean go take a look at the new regional hospital built on the edge of Eniskillen. change is always difficult to embrac, this new motorway will present great opportunities for good regional planning of resources.

antoobrien

westtip wrote: »

City centres aren't were people are living these days, but we have inherited inner city infrastructure with old hospitals on old sites that cannot grow properly, my regional hospital suggestion on the M17/18/6 interchange was driven out of the loss of cancer services in Sligo and A&E in Roscommon, we need to stop thinking on a county level, West Galway would be perfectly well served by a regional hospital at this location if the bypass is also built. The idea would be to have this cross roads as a regional hub for some critical public services Getting to hospitals isn't about distance to the hospital its about travel time and quality of public transport - If the Western Regional was at the interchange why not have constant 15 minute shuttle buses to the hospital from the city centre, why not sit down with Taxi companies and agree fixed price reasonable fares to the hospital? etc etc.

How long would it take to drive to Rathmorrisey junction from Roscommon, from Athlone, Ballinasloe, Galway, Sligo, Claremorris, Knock, etc etc. All of these places will be less than an hour away (sligo town maybe pushing it a bit the new route would be about 85 miles but with motorway from north of tuam and good quality road at Knock and Claremorris, with a wet sail you an hour and a quarter woudl be very doable) - Its not about closing the Galway hospital its about having a state of the art brand new facility for the west including Galway city relocated to a location that is far more accessible to the entire region. If you want to see what I mean go take a look at the new regional hospital built on the edge of Eniskillen. change is always difficult to embrac, this new motorway will present great opportunities for good regional planning of resources.

Galway already have a hospital just off the end of the motorway at Merlin Park (the former TB hospital). It's about 10 minutes drive from Rathmorrisy and is served by by public transport.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Why buy a new site when they already have a (practically) greenfields site in Merlin Park - which is just off the end of the M6.

Merlin is a great spot for proper suburban apartments designed for long term living! Galway City will run out of living space (meaning residential construction will restart) sooner than many people realise.

The 'profits' from this can be invested in a greenfield hospital complex near the motorway. Galway City certainly does not require 2 hospital complexes although we should remain mindful that "isolation hospital" scenarios should also be catered for in a putative new build, somethingwhich is not possible in UCHG ...and which is why Merlin was built in the first place. Epediomological scenarios require an isolation solution have not gone away you know. !!!

It may be that a 'debate' like this merely re energises Merlin which has been steadily run down over the years ...and does not result in a new complex at all. So be it!

Putting everything important in the West into a single congested ****ehole on the wrong side of the city is wrong. !!

KevR

westtip wrote: »

Not only a service station but a bus interchange station as well - so buses can pull off on the north south (Say Sligo-Limerick route) and passengers can interchange with East West (Galway - dublin route).

This is a fantastic idea.

westtip wrote: »

A regional hospital would be the ideal location at the interchange - it would afterall only be 15 minutes from Galway, could provide critical A&E coverage for a very wide area, cancer services etc. In effect relocate the Galway hospital to the motorway junction and release the land from the hospital to for example- the university.

I think that building a hospital at the interchange would be a good idea. However, I believe that any such facility should be built to complement the University Hospital and not as a replacement. I think that in an urban area like Galway City, you do need pedestrian access to a hospital. A hospital outside the city with great connectivity via the motorway network would be great for a very wide region (West, North West, Mid-West and Midlands).

NUIG certainly doesn't need anymore land. As someone who was a student there for 5 years, I would be of the opinion that the campus is far too sprawled as it is (it's so ridiculously sprawled/low density that they have buses servicing the campus internally). I don't think they have made good enough use of the land that they already have. If they were really stuck for space, they would have started building up years ago as opposed to building out. They should not get the huge hospital site.

westtip wrote: »

This junction will be accessible to the majority of people in the West and Mid west region within an hours drive, faster by emergency services. Make use of it! If public services are not centred on the land near this junction you can be dam sure we will see retailers move in with their large upturned shoeboxes as stores.

I'm not too worried about this. I can't see retailers ever getting direct access to the Rathmorrisey interchange because it links 2 motorways. The interchange won't link with any non-motorway road. The best retailers can hope for is to build near existing junctions which link to non-motorway roads (e.g. - Athenry or Oranmore junctions).

KevR

Anyone know what sort of disruption will be caused to M6 traffic when the 3-level stack is being built?

At least the M6 has those very wide hard shoulders at Rathmorrissey so that will help to reduce disruption. For example, with very little effort, they could re-route all 4 M6 lanes away from the central reservation while they are building bridge supports.

JupiterKid

I don't relish the idea of a three level stack interchange built at Rathmorrissey - if I had my way it would be a whirlpool type junction.

But a 3 level stack is better than no junction and no M18/M17 at all I suppose.

Irish and Proud

JupiterKid wrote: »

I don't relish the idea of a three level stack interchange built at Rathmorrissey - if I had my way it would be a whirlpool type junction.

But a 3 level stack is better than no junction and no M18/M17 at all I suppose.

Maybe an M50 style interchange, but on a bigger scale with better curves given the ample amount of land available at Rathmorrissey.

Pete_Cavan

Regarding the MSA, why not build it in the south east quadrant of the M6/M17/M18 cross and just have a dumbell on each the M18 and M6 a couple of km from the junction providing access to it? The access roads from the dumbells to the MSA would be longer than you might expect and so more expensive to build but attracting customers from both the M6 and M18 would make it more lucrative.

Ok, this wouldnt serve people using the M17, but isnt this mainly commuters going to/coming from Galway city travelling relatively short distances and unlikely to use the MSA. People on longer journeys, ie. coming from north Galway or south Mayo using the M17 to access the M6 as part of a journey to/from Dublin would be able to access the MSA from the M6 so no need for a junction on the M17.

beeintheknow

KevR wrote: »

NUIG certainly doesn't need anymore land. As someone who was a student there for 5 years, I would be of the opinion that the campus is far too sprawled as it is (it's so ridiculously sprawled/low density that they have buses servicing the campus internally). I don't think they have made good enough use of the land that they already have. If they were really stuck for space, they would have started building up years ago as opposed to building out. They should not get the huge hospital site.

To be fair to the college, the concourse is an absolute monstrosity with a huge footprint and oceans of wasted space. Regrettably, it is also a listed structure so they can't just flatten it.

dubhthach

KevR wrote: »

NUIG certainly doesn't need anymore land. As someone who was a student there for 5 years, I would be of the opinion that the campus is far too sprawled as it is (it's so ridiculously sprawled/low density that they have buses servicing the campus internally).

Internal buses? Jaysuz back in the day (99-03) we had none of this new-fangled stuff, sure furtherest ye have to walk is probably St. Anthony's. Either way I do agree there is plenty of land within the current campus. This can be seen by proposals to build more buildings within the area south of the Dual carriageway:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/campusofthefuture/documents/campus_of_the_future_jb.pdf

the keen edge

dubhthach wrote: »

Internal buses? Jaysuz back in the day (99-03) we had none of this new-fangled stuff, sure furtherest ye have to walk is probably St. Anthony's.

The internal buses primarily services the park and ride car park which is ~.5 kilometer out past corrib village.

westtip

dubhthach wrote: »

Internal buses? Jaysuz back in the day (99-03) we had none of this new-fangled stuff, sure furtherest ye have to walk is probably St. Anthony's. Either way I do agree there is plenty of land within the current campus. This can be seen by proposals to build more buildings within the area south of the Dual carriageway:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/campusofthefuture/documents/campus_of_the_future_jb.pdf

FGS - don't students have bikes these days???

antoobrien

westtip wrote: »

FGS - don't students have bikes these days???

The county students can't afford the rent in town anymore and are driving instead, or maybe it's that they can afford the cars (hell I know I couldn't afford one 10 years ago).

yer man!

As there is quite a lot of construction in NUIG right now, the carparks in the middle of campus are being taken away. For this reason many staff park in the remote carpark now too. Many students do drive to college or get the bus. There is a large number of cyclists, however there could be more, Galway just isn't a very bicycle friendly city. I know a lot of people who hate cycling here as 1. Drivers tend to hate them and 2. There are barely any cycle lanes.

Sponge Bob

Only place you can park after 8am is HERE. Insurance costs have dropped a lot in the last 10 years meaning more students can afford insurance (whatever about petrol ) .

However parking in UCHG/NUIG and the Newcastle area is dire nowadays.

dloob

antoobrien wrote: »

Galway already have a hospital just off the end of the motorway at Merlin Park (the former TB hospital). It's about 10 minutes drive from Rathmorrisy and is served by by public transport.

I had heard they though about developing it as the main site years ago but the doctors living in salthill and taylors hill didn't want to have to cross the bridge to get to work so they shot it down.
Could be an urban myth though.

spacetweek

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Regarding the MSA, why not build it in the south east quadrant of the M6/M17/M18 cross and just have a dumbell on each the M18 and M6 a couple of km from the junction providing access to it? The access roads from the dumbells to the MSA would be longer than you might expect and so more expensive to build but attracting customers from both the M6 and M18 would make it more lucrative.

Ok, this wouldnt serve people using the M17, but isnt this mainly commuters going to/coming from Galway city travelling relatively short distances and unlikely to use the MSA. People on longer journeys, ie. coming from north Galway or south Mayo using the M17 to access the M6 as part of a journey to/from Dublin would be able to access the MSA from the M6 so no need for a junction on the M17.

Thought of this too, it's a pretty good idea but needs a LOT of roads:
3-level stack at Rathmorrissey
2 dumbbell junctions
Road linking them.

However, can I suggest that it should be the northeast quadrant - that way you could have the bus interchange within spitting distance of Athenry train station. Suitably located you could build a path connecting them. In the future there could be a train shuttle services from there to Galway city centre and it could be easy to switch between bus and train.

westtip

KevR wrote: »

Anyone know what sort of disruption will be caused to M6 traffic when the 3-level stack is being built?

At least the M6 has those very wide hard shoulders at Rathmorrissey so that will help to reduce disruption. For example, with very little effort, they could re-route all 4 M6 lanes away from the central reservation while they are building bridge supports.

You mean they didn't build the interchange at the same time as building the M6 in anticipation of the planned M17/18 crossroads and whilst they had all the basic plant infrastrucuture and engineers in place - so all that would need to be done in the future is to build the motorways to link in with the junction?? with absolutley no disruption......:D

OF COURSE NOT - THIS IS IRELAND!!!!

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

no disruption......:D

No compensation payments to the M6 toll section operators either. :cool: