M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Tech3

If anyone has a copy could they scan it and post it up here?

Tech3

Heres a post from jd over on infrastructure. I for one cannot wait to read this article. It has great implications on future developing of our road network over the next 5-10 years should the PPP model fail. I think we all had worries over this project from the very beginning.

jd wrote: »

There is a report in the Sunday Business Post that the Gort-Tuam Motorway PPP has been delayed by concerns over the sovereign debt situation. If this is the case, it has repercussions for the Metro Project, N11 Rathnew-Arklow/Newlands Cross and all the other PPP projects coming down the line. Article will be available online tomorrow.

jd

Here you go..

marmurr1916

Depressing news. The fact that international investors seem to think that Ireland's financial state is so bad that the government wouldn't be able to pay off a relatively small PPP scheme over 25 years shows just how bad our plight is.

Maybe investors could be found if it was hard-tolled.

If not, then Labour's Strategic Investment Bank looks increasingly like the only viable solution for financing major infrastructural projects.

westtip

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Depressing news. The fact that international investors seem to think that Ireland's financial state is so bad that the government wouldn't be able to pay off a relatively small PPP scheme over 25 years shows just how bad our plight is.

Maybe investors could be found if it was hard-tolled.

If not, then Labour's Strategic Investment Bank looks increasingly like the only viable solution for financing major infrastructural projects.

It is a disaster for the west where our entire supply chain is reliant on the need to improve roads. Hardly surprising, and I guess there is no plan B - looks like another few years of misery through Tuam and Claregalway - didn't FF say they were going to put in a by-pass of Claregalway, oh sorry that must have been an election promise.

stee.mc79

Isn't this great this thread was started in 2007 with works to be started in 2008! Here we are coming up to another election in 2011 and no sod turned yet and looks like it won't be done either so the promises of by passes ring roads and what have you are all bull! Just goes to show how much the west of Ireland is thought of.:mad:

Sponge Bob

The project is still (up to) €170m funded by the EIB and therefore funding the project concerns the remaining c.€200m of a c.€370m construction budget.

I reckon it will revert from DBO+Enhanced O Package to a Simple DB and with a Toll Plaza around Gort and Roadbridge to get the DB contract. Same with all the other PPP projects, christ knows when Cork-Mallow will get done now.

murphaph

stee.mc79 wrote: »

Isn't this great this thread was started in 2007 with works to be started in 2008! Here we are coming up to another election in 2011 and no sod turned yet and looks like it won't be done either so the promises of by passes ring roads and what have you are all bull! Just goes to show how much the west of Ireland is thought of.:mad:

Why is a sovereign debt issue somehow an attack on the west ffs? This viewing of everything in such a parochial manner is what has Ireland in such a state...voting for goons to run a nation based on promises to a parish! A whole raft of stuff has been chopped because Ireland is skint, projects all over the land, not just west of the Shannon.

Have you already forgotten that Galway was the first city in Ireland to be connected to Dublin by continuous motorway/dual carriageway? Hardly forgotten now?

stee.mc79

murphaph wrote: »

Why is a sovereign debt issue somehow an attack on the west ffs? This viewing of everything in such a parochial manner is what has Ireland in such a state...voting for goons to run a nation based on promises to a parish! A whole raft of stuff has been chopped because Ireland is skint, projects all over the land, not just west of the Shannon.

Have you already forgotten that Galway was the first city in Ireland to be connected to Dublin by continuous motorway/dual carriageway? Hardly forgotten now?

Hold on where did I say I voted FF, they are peddling the same rubbish about this by passes and it's not FF. local candidate was at my doorstep Thursday talking about the Gort tuam by pass saying the funds where in from Europe to start this build. Also have you been to tuam or through Claregalway lately these are works that need urgent attention tuam roads are a appalling. Never up graded or looked after to deal with the volumes of traffic on them. By the way this thread was started way before sovern debt was an issue

murphaph

stee.mc79 wrote: »

Hold on where did I say I voted FF, they are peddling the same rubbish about this by passes and it's not FF. local candidate was at my doorstep Thursday talking about the Gort tuam by pass saying the funds where in from Europe to start this build. Also have you been to tuam or through Claregalway lately these are works that need urgent attention tuam roads are a appalling. Never up graded or looked after to deal with the volumes of traffic on them. By the way this thread was started way before sovern debt was an issue

Yeah but the (alleged) reason the funding is in jeopardy is one of soverein debt stee.

I have no doubt that the roads around Tuam and Claregalway are in need of upgrade. I also have no doubt that loads of other roads all over our country are in need of same. My problem with your post is that you view this issue as if it has something to do with the west being neglected.

The west has embarked on the same crackpot "planning"strategy as the rest of Ireland (bar perhaps Cork and South Dublin which made a good stab at decent planning in an Irish context) and now people are commuting stupid distances everyday by car into Galway (and other cities) through the likes of Tuam and Claregalway when they should be LIVING in Galway.

Many people of course want to live the rural dream and still have the roads provided for them (congestion free of course) to get to work in a city. This is not practical on a large scale and leads to the destruction of the visual amenity of large swathes of our countryside. Many people of course don't care or don't accept that rural housing or expanding a tiny village by 400% rather than expanding an already existing city to be fully in order (but then wonder why no tourists come to visit any more and invariably blame some policy made in Dublin!).

Anyway, going OT....the road is not in jeopardy because it's in the west.

ei.sdraob

@murphaph


the tuam/claregalway/galway corridor roughly centred by this motorway was part of the "spatial strategy"

the plan "from above" was to develop Galway county in this fashion

you cant blame the people now for choosing to settle in the "orangy" bits considering they where promised schools, roads and jobs

Tech3

I have no doubt this scheme will be built but the question now is when and who will build it. I think the new government should begin direct negotiations with the consortia that is involoved and get this project to the construction ASAP given the amount of construction workers that are currently unemployed and waiting for this to start. If the consortia dont fund it by a certain date like end March then let the consortia that came second in the process Roadbridge and AIB take over and sign the contract.

There is not a word of it out of the political leaders or any member of their partys. For many this project is of a significant importance and also for businesses in the locality.

murphaph

ei.sdraob wrote: »

@murphaph


the tuam/claregalway/galway corridor roughly centred by this motorway was part of the "spatial strategy"

the plan "from above" was to develop Galway county in this fashion

you cant blame the people now for choosing to settle in the "orangy" bits considering they where promised schools, roads and jobs

But we both know that people haven't stuck to the orangey bits at all. What %age of people will have consulted that document before building/buying their homes? As regards the flawed NSS (and it's lack of implementation thereafter), well, we the people elect the politicians and drive their agenda. We the people are broadly in favour (or at least see no harm in) bungalow blitz and extremely low density housing. We get the politicians that will implement that mindset. I am personally strongly opposed to large scale (and it has been large scale) building in the countryside.

For the record, I am fully in favour of this particular scheme as the N17 is a national primary route of some importance. I am not a luddite, I believe towns and cities should be densely populated, the countryside should be sparsely populated and people who need to work on the land (save for farmers who need to milk cattle at all hours) should live in villages, but not in one off houses. These medium/high density towns and cities should be well connected to each other on high quality motorways.

I don't believe a person should be allowed to build whatever they like, wherever they like basically.

ei.sdraob

murphaph wrote: »

What %age of people will have consulted that document before building/buying their homes?

I dont know,

tho i did, then again i am weird :P
would be within few km of this crossing the m6

not that i agree with this plan its crazy in places, they quite literary planning to sprawl the city in every direction

the population density map from same document is interesting, shows how badly galway needs the bloody bypass

dubhthach

Well no doubt it was part of Galway County council concept of "spreading the wealth". This same idea prevented the development of Ardaun (Galway's answer to Adamstown) as the county councillors were like "what about development in my patch"

If I recall the articles from several years the Ardaun plan called for population of 20k. It would have been 1/3rd within the city remaining 2/3rds in the County.

dloob

dubhthach wrote: »

Well no doubt it was part of Galway County council concept of "spreading the wealth". This same idea prevented the development of Ardaun (Galway's answer to Adamstown) as the county councillors were like "what about development in my patch"

If I recall the articles from several years the Ardaun plan called for population of 20k. It would have been 1/3rd within the city remaining 2/3rds in the County.

Yes it was 18K to 21K population with around 6,000 houses.
The county council did eventually approve it in 2009.
However they still fight over with the city and nothing has happened to advance it.
This was the original plan http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,4222,en.pdf

KevR

dloob wrote: »

Yes it was 18K to 21K population with around 6,000 houses.
The county council did eventually approve it in 2009.
However they still fight over with the city and nothing has happened to advance it.
This was the original plan http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,4222,en.pdf

I'm definitely not against something like this but I don't understand why it has to be completely road-oriented/dependant. In my opinion, a big new development like this would be better located around the planned station for Oranmore. The station for Oranmore isn't actually in the village and there is loads of space around the station which can be developed.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

I'm definitely not against something like this but I don't understand why it has to be completely road-oriented/dependant. In my opinion, a big new development like this would be better located around the planned station for Oranmore. The station for Oranmore isn't actually in the village and there is loads of space around the station which can be developed.

Or you could develop a station in Doughiska (there's a level crossing there) that would cater both for the large existing population that would cater and the new town

KevR

antoobrien wrote: »

Or you could develop a station in Doughiska (there's a level crossing there) that would cater both for the large existing population that would cater and the new town

That would certainly be an option. Although, I personally would prefer a new big development like that to be focused around Oranmore station and another station built to serve Renmore/GMIT. An additional station at Doughiska might slow trains down too much (Athenry-Oranmore-Doughiska-Renmore-Ceannt).

westtip

[/QUOTE]

I wonder if they will be able to collect all these schematics with arrows and circles showing gateways, hubs and corridors together frame them up nicely and have a special exhibition of "what might have been"

Or maybe call it "how county council plannng departments wasted all their time 2000 - 2010 - the decade of waste"

There must be a map/graphic like this for every square mile of the country showing how and what was going to be done.

I reckon it would make a good exhibition. Perhaps a new Gallery - and call it "the Bertie collection of empty promises"

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

That would certainly be an option. Although, I personally would prefer a new big development like that to be focused around Oranmore station and another station built to serve Renmore/GMIT. An additional station at Doughiska might slow trains down too much (Athenry-Oranmore-Doughiska-Renmore-Ceannt).

Depends on the target - the Doughiska proposal is a strictly commuter only (besides i think there's a speed limit in this area for the intercity trains anyways). The distances would not be much different to the distances involved in the dart and luas systems. Compare the example above to Contarf Rd - Killester - Harmonstown-Raheny (about 2.5 miles). If we put the concentrate development along this line we can build up that system.

The downside to this is that there's no (rail) link to the business on the east side of the city. Without developing this link,talk of developing a rail commuter system is moot.

ei.sdraob

antoobrien wrote: »

The downside to this is that there's no link to the business on the east side of the city. Without developing this link,talk of developing a rail communter system moot is moot.

Galway needs the bypass or at least another crossing point badly

alot of homes in the west of the river need to travel to the east part of galway to work and it all just leads to gridlock, i would love to see the green hippies responsible try to commute by bicycle from western distributor out to the industrial estates in the east :P

Irish and Proud

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Galway needs the bypass or at least another crossing point badly

alot of homes in the west of the river need to travel to the east part of galway to work and it all just leads to gridlock, i would love to see the green hippies responsible try to commute by bicycle from western distributor out to the industrial estates in the east :P

...would love to see them sued (if there was such a thing as a legal act against serial objectors) by the state for the loss of economic earnings as a result of delays in the delivery of our infrastructure! They should be accountable - simple! - I could see Sweetman's world falling apart then!

antoobrien

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i would love to see the green hippies responsible try to commute by bicycle from western distributor out to the industrial estates in the east :P

when I was going to uni, I cycled from Briarhill passing these estates. Not the safest thing I've ever done having got knocked off the bike twice (in about 5 years). I would not like to try use the roads out to say Hibernian/aviva on a bike.

antoobrien

http://www.galwaynews.ie/17838-consultants-move-bypass-claregalway-step-closer

Consultants to move bypass for Claregalway a step closer
February 24, 2011 - 7:55am
To approve final design of five kilometre stretch of nerw road

By Declan Tierney

There has been significant progress on the Claregalway bypass project with consultants having been appointed by Galway County Council to approve the final design of the five kilometre stretch which will end the gridlock in the village.

With news of the Gort to Tuam motorway being halted indefinitely, the focus of attention will invariably turn to the Claregalway project, which is now expected to get priority over the coming months.

And it is possible that the compulsory purchase orders for the lands required to construct the road could be issued by the middle of this year if the project takes on a priority status.

Possibly the most annoying aspect to the whole project for those who have been campaigning for it is that if the land owners along the proposed route of the bypass had collectively agreed to sell their lands when approached more than five years ago, it would have been constructed by now.

The bypass will stretch from Kiniska on the Tuam side of Claregalway to Cregboy on the Galway site and it would also involve the provision of a new bridge over the River Clare.

It is estimated that the whole project would cost in the region of €15 million – some €10 million less than it would have costed five years ago.

Galway West TD Noel Grealish said that it now made sense to focus every bit of attention on the Claregalway bypass in view of the fact that there were serious doubts about the M17/M18 motorway proceeding within the next few years.

“There is no reason why this project could not start in early 2012 since the funding is there. With the motorway in jeopardy, this has to get priority and I will be ensuring that it moves along at a steady pace,” Deputy Grealish added.

Senior roads engineers agree that the N17 Tuam to Galway road is suited to a capacity of 13,800 vehicles a day but currently there are, on average, 27,000 vehicles passing through Claregalway on a daily basis.

During the winter freeze, this number increased to 33,000 vehicles because of the reluctance of motorists to use the traditional rat runs which were quite dangerous at the time.

It had been argued by the two Fianna Fáil Galway West TDs that the Gort to Tuam motorway would effectively become the bypass for Claregalway and there was no need to build an inner relief road.
But Senior Roads Engineer with Galway County Council, Martin Lavelle, recently disagreed with this by saying that there was still a need for a road to take large volumes of traffic away from the village centre.

No big surprise here but I have to wonder where they're getting the figures for traffic through Claregalway (not off the NRA)

Benbecul97

Smells of desperation from Grealish the day before polling day!

black47

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/17838-consultants-move-bypass-claregalway-step-closer

Why can't they split up the M17/M18 again and at least go as far as the N6 and complete the M18. They could build this Claregalway relief road separately. It seems madness not have a motorway form Limerick to Galway now that its 3/4 of the way there

Sponge Bob

The NRA ( according to the Connacht Tribune) have gone "cap in hand" to the other consortia .....thankfully including Roadbridge....now that Balfour Beatty have pulled out entirely. I hope that the same NRA is not entertaining any timewasting from Balfour Beatty on the Newlands project.

The expenditure on design and land acquisition is given as €110m to date by the Trib with a further €350m envisaged....this strikes me as a tad on the high side.

westtip

black47 wrote: »

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/17838-consultants-move-bypass-claregalway-step-closer

Why can't they split up the M17/M18 again and at least go as far as the N6 and complete the M18. They could build this Claregalway relief road separately. It seems madness not have a motorway form Limerick to Galway now that its 3/4 of the way there

For goodness sake stop making such sensible suggestions its frightening!!! (sic)

Tech3

I found a great article on the Tuam herald about the latest update on the scheme. I think it's fair to say it will be built but the time delay is frustrating:

Confusion over latest delay in Tuam-Gort motorway
By TOM GILMORE

AS a definite date has still not been given for the commencement of work on the long awaited Tuam-Gort motorway, the M17, there is confusion over the reasons why the project, which was expected to have started by now, remains stalled.

The economic growth of Tuam and hundreds of potential construction jobs on the route could be put in jeopardy if the project did not go ahead as expected this year.

While all sides involved have been anxious to say that they are committed to the project going ahead, confusion has arisen regarding the latest delay. The possibility has now emerged that the National Roads Authority (NRA) may be in talks with the second preferred tender, should the favoured tender, the international Balfour Beatty consortium not go ahead with the work.

The construction of the 57-kilometere route will lead to the creation of hundreds of jobs in this area, as the overall cost of the project is estimated at between €300,000 and €500,000.

A source at the NRA’s office in Galway said that the organisation was now in contact with the second-favoured bidder, the Irish company Direct Route, regarding doing the work, if the Balfour Beatty group don’t sign the contract.
But when contacted by the Tuam Herald regarding the present situation, Sean O’Neill of the NRA’s head office in Dublin said the reason for the delay was due to questions over Ireland’s sovereign debt situation.

According to the statement the authority “can confirm that it is committed to the projects and to attaining financial close”. But the NRA admits that there has been a delay in the tender process for the scheme.

“This delay has arisen due to concerns, on the part of the funding banks, relating to the sovereign debt situation in Ireland and these concerns have impacted on the timing of progressing to financial close.

“The Authority will continue to monitor the situation with the objective of progressing to contract award at the earliest possible time,” states Sean O’ Neill of the NRA.

Fears about the project were heightened when a front-page story in The Sunday Business Post stated that the delay regarding the largest capital investment project in Ireland was because of this country’s sovereign debt situation.

But a spokesperson for Galway Co Council said the local authority expects that work on the motorway will start later this year.

“We welcome the latest statement by the NRA, which clearly states that they are committed to completing the project,” said the Galway Co Council spokesperson.

The project was expected to have started construction by now under the Balfour Beatty consortium, which is backed by the Royal BAM Group, a Netherlands-based construction contractor.

According to the story in The Sunday Business Post, a spokesman for the consortium said that it remained “committed to the project”.

A source close to the NRA in Galway told The Tuam Herald that while there had been a lot of rumours about the project it was still expected to go ahead, irrespective of what tender eventually signs the contract.

“A lot of money has already been spent on this project and with so many land acquisitions along the route already, it is vital that it goes ahead.

“Irrespective of our sovereign debt situation, it would be hard to comprehend that outside bankers would regard us as being so poor now that we could not pay back a long-term mortgage on a road,” he concluded.

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