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UCDSU - Should we just ignore them and start our own Union?

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135

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    #62
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    What's the bet that SU will change their view on charges by the end of this year and they'll be outside at the lake with that damn megaphone protesting against health fees?

    And probably while we are in the library getting ready for an exam! You see doing that they can get on RTE news (or their own paper) to show how great they are.


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    #63
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    parker kent wrote: »
    And probably while we are in the library getting ready for an exam! You see doing that they can get on RTE news (or their own paper) to show how great they are.

    More Shouting!


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    #64
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    I actually felt embarrassed when they showed students marching around demanding free education. I mean they were doing it while they were supposed to be in college or studying or doing something constructive. It reinforces the point to adults that students do a 3 or 4 year course, graduate, and then go back to playing video games at home lol.


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    #65
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    I actually felt embarrassed when they showed students marching around demanding free education. I mean they were doing it while they were supposed to be in college or studying or doing something constructive. It reinforces the point to adults that students do a 3 or 4 year course, graduate, and then go back to playing video games at home lol.

    I'm glad somebody else felt like that too. On the day they wanted us to strike (as if I'm going to strike on a course I'm paying to do!) I got so fed up with them drawing on everything with chalk, especially around the Arts cafe. It looked so pathetic, like a protest organised by children.


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    #66
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    parker kent wrote: »
    I got so fed up with them drawing on everything with chalk, especially around the Arts cafe. It looked so pathetic, like a protest organised by children.

    In all fairness to UCDSU that was FEE


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    #67
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    Grimes wrote: »
    In all fairness to UCDSU that was FEE

    Oh right, I just saw them as one mass entity annoying me!


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    #68
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    I also can't understand how lecturers allow them to make campaign pleas before, during and after lectures. Why can't they have some respect for students who genuinely don't care about beach parties in dingy nightclubs or how much someone did last year for the students. The best thing they could do for me now is just shut up. Run campaigns around courses rather than disturbing them.


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    #69
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    I actually felt embarrassed when they showed students marching around demanding free education. I mean they were doing it while they were supposed to be in college or studying or doing something constructive. It reinforces the point to adults that students do a 3 or 4 year course, graduate, and then go back to playing video games at home lol.
    Ya, protesting to protect your rights and the rights of those who will follow you isn't constructive at all :rolleyes:

    Before someone tries to tell me that they don't consider education a right, don't bother, I recognise that it's subjective. Ted Bundy doesn't consider life a right.


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    #70
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    33% God wrote: »
    Ya, protesting to protect your rights and the rights of those who will follow you isn't constructive at all :rolleyes:

    Before someone tries to tell me that they don't consider education a right, don't bother, I recognise that it's subjective. Ted Bundy doesn't consider life a right.

    They had no arguement during the fees protest. All they said was 'no'. If you want to fight something on behalf of other students they could have offered an alternative to full fees for all students. They should have had a detailed plan to suggest to higher authorities rather than a simple childish 'no'.


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    #71
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    They had no arguement during the fees protest. All they said was 'no'. If you want to fight something on behalf of other students they could have offered an alternative to full fees for all students. They should have had a detailed plan to suggest to higher authorities rather than a simple childish 'no'.

    Thats what I said and as a result was labled "pro-fees" by some in the FEE gang


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    #72
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    They had no arguement during the fees protest. All they said was 'no'. If you want to fight something on behalf of other students they could have offered an alternative to full fees for all students. They should have had a detailed plan to suggest to higher authorities rather than a simple childish 'no'.
    Their position is that they don't want fees or a graduate tax in any form, ie. that education should be free at the point of entry. They made a number of arguments as to why that should remain the case. They did not simply say no. They said an emphatic no to any form of fees and made a number of arguments to support that.
    Kind of similar to how the elderly said "No" to the governments medical card plans.
    If someone were about to take away your right to free speech would they have to give some kind of compromise alternative before protesting or would an emphatic no backed up by cogent arguments suffice?


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    #73
    mad lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭mad lad


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    They had no arguement during the fees protest. All they said was 'no'. If you want to fight something on behalf of other students they could have offered an alternative to full fees for all students. They should have had a detailed plan to suggest to higher authorities rather than a simple childish 'no'.

    They had an argument. Education should be funded throught the a progressive taxation system with additional funds going into the grant scheme, early initiatives at primary school & retentions schemes at secondary level.

    CSO figure show that people on incomes of over 500,000 pay an effective tax rate of between 15-20%.

    Some people argued that the 100 million public subsidy to private education should be removed and put into public education.


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    #74
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    33% God wrote: »
    Their position is that they don't want fees or a graduate tax in any form, ie. that education should be free at the point of entry. They made a number of arguments as to why that should remain the case. They did not simply say no. They said an emphatic no to any form of fees and made a number of arguments to support that.
    Kind of similar to how the elderly said "No" to the governments medical card plans.
    If someone were about to take away your right to free speech would they have to give some kind of compromise alternative before protesting or would an emphatic no backed up by cogent arguments suffice?

    The issue was free fees for everyone does not work and full fees for everyone also does not work. This is the type of situation that needs an alternative.


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    #75
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    The issue was free fees for everyone does not work and full fees for everyone also does not work. This is the type of situation that needs an alternative.
    Free fees for everyone does work.

    See, I can make meaningless statements backed up by absolutely nothing but my own personal opinion too.


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    #76
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    33% God wrote: »
    Free fees for everyone does work.

    See, I can make meaningless statements backed up by absolutely nothing but my own personal opinion too.

    Cant you feel the love?


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    #77
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    Grimes wrote: »
    Cant you feel the love?
    What is this love of which you speak?

    YoungChildrenKissingAwkwardMoment.jpg


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    #78
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Well in defence of the lad in the photo the bird on the right is a bit of a minger.

    Im considering making alot of appearances in UCD soon


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    #79
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    Grimes wrote: »
    Cant you feel the love?

    Its just so beautiful :D


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    #80
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    33% God wrote: »
    Free fees for everyone does work.

    See, I can make meaningless statements backed up by absolutely nothing but my own personal opinion too.

    I thought the last year of unsuccessful debates about cuts to education was enough to 'back up' my statement.

    My point was that in order to seek an alternative which suited both sides, having a mass protest which disrupted the city wasn't the greatest of ideas.


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    #81
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    I thought the last year of unsuccessful debates about cuts to education was enough to 'back up' my statement.
    You thought wrong.
    My point was that in order to seek an alternative which suited both sides, having a mass protest which disrupted the city wasn't the greatest of ideas.
    They have saught alternatives, just not alternatives that involve fees at the point of entry.


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    #82
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    Fees are going to happen. To 'back up' this statement

    http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/okeeffe-to-end-free--thirdlevel-education-1679714.html

    This was going to happen regardless of striking and protesting. The SU should have focused on minimising the damage, ensuring familes who could not afford the fees would not have to withdraw from the education system.


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    #83
    mad lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭mad lad


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    Fees are going to happen. To 'back up' this statement

    http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/okeeffe-to-end-free--thirdlevel-education-1679714.html

    This was going to happen regardless of striking and protesting. The SU should have focused on minimising the damage, ensuring familes who could not afford the fees would not have to withdraw from the education system.

    I presume you believe that the future is already written, inevitable and outside the control of people. Irrationalist nonsense.


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    #84
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    Fees are going to happen. To 'back up' this statement

    http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/okeeffe-to-end-free--thirdlevel-education-1679714.html

    This was going to happen regardless of striking and protesting. The SU should have focused on minimising the damage, ensuring familes who could not afford the fees would not have to withdraw from the education system.
    That is no guarantee, and a concerted and serious effort on behalf of Irish students, their parents, and future concerned parties, spearheaded by the USI, FEE, and other groups could force them to row back on that decision, just as farmers, health groups, workers, and the elderly have managed campaigns that have forced the government to listen.


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    #85
    TheJeanGenie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭TheJeanGenie


    No I believe the SU is quite insignificant when compared to the Irish government.

    As for getting other people involved, you'd be surprised the amount of people in Dublin who are really pissed
    off at students campaigning, mainly for blocking traffic through town even if it is for a few hours. Students are still seen as
    having a very easy life by many.


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    #86
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    TheJeanGenie wrote: »
    No I believe the SU is quite insignificant when compared to the Irish government.
    Yet there is a huge concerned party here. If they do mobilise then they could force the government to row back.


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    #87
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    33% God wrote: »
    Yet there is a huge concerned party here. If they do mobilise then they could force the government to row back.

    Yeah but they wont and thats how this is the situation we find ourselves in


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    #88
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    Grimes wrote: »
    Yeah but they wont and thats how this is the situation we find ourselves in
    shepard_fairey_hope_2008.jpg


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    #89
    Riamfada
    Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Would that poster work with Mr Redmond ?


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    #90
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    Grimes wrote: »
    Would that poster work with Mr Redmond ?
    Obama_Poster_Hitler_Yesweca.gif



    ...Close enough :P


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    #91
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    Here's the email our esteemed UCDSU President sent out to everyone:
    Dear Student,

    By now you will all have received an email from the Vice-President for Students, Dr Martin Butler, regarding the new charges per visit to the UCD Student Health Service.

    Below are the main points surrounding this new arrangement, to help allay any confusion that may have arisen.

    - The Student Counselling Service will not charge for a consultation
    - If you have a HSE Medical Card, you will not be charged for a consultation with the Student Health Service. The Student Health Service will recoup the cost of your consultation directly from the HSE ensuring that you do not have to change the GP that your medical card is registered with.
    - If you are an international student with travel insurance, the cost of your consultation can be claimed back from your insurer
    - There will be a cost of 10 euro to see a nurse in the Student Health Service
    - There will be a cost of 25 euro to see a doctor in the Student Health Service
    - There will be a cost of 40 euro to see a psychologist in the Student Health Service
    - If you are referred from a nurse to a doctor, the charge will be 25 euro
    - You will not need to pay upfront, but will receive an email following your visit to inform you of the charges and the methods of payment
    - If you are unable to pay these charges, they will be waived by an application to the Student Welfare Fund
    - Charges to the Student Health Service will not be linked to your main fees account with the university, and cannot be seen by any other staff in the university
    - All Money raised from these charges will be invested back in to the Student Health Service.

    Even though the government has increased the Registration Fee to 1,500 euro per student, UCD has received no additional income from this increase and in fact, the level of funding UCD receives from this charge has decreased compared to last year with the balance being swallowed up by the Government.

    Additionally, the Higher Education Authority is systematically cutting funding to the university, leading to cutbacks across all areas. As per the results of the all-student online survey published last semester, the Students' Union is concentrating on protecting library services, including stabilising its opening hours and funding. Unfortunately, the overall funding issues within the university necessitated these new arrangements for the Student Health Service.

    The long-term goal for the Student Health Service is to expand its remit when it occupies a new space in the Student Centre extension, with the possibility of the introduction of new services such as dentistry and acupuncture. This will be greatly aided by the revenue generated by these new charges.

    To continue to provide the services of the Student Health Service, UCD in consultation with the Students' Union have put in place a comprehensive strategy to deal with Swine Flu. This strategy will be coordinated separately to the Student Health Service and will allow us to continue to ensure the welfare of all students. Details of these arrangements will be communicated prior to your return to campus.

    UCD Students' Union is committed to fighting for the best interests of its members, on a priority basis as established by the members themselves. The medical needs of UCD students are vitally important, and cost should never be a factor in considering a visit to the Student Health Service, as students who are unable to pay will not be asked to.

    If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Gary Redmond
    President, UCD Students' Union

    T: 01 716 3110
    E: gary@ucdsu.ie

    Here's my response:
    A Chara,
    This is a joke, what kind of UCDSU president would sanction this? Students are paying the highest ever registration fee in ten years, fees are to be implemented next year and you can seriously defend the increases in these charges? Do you actually do anything for students or are you just as bad as a real politician? How come UCD can ask it's creditors for a rebate of 8%, and yet still push forward with this 'Gateway' project? How can you actually expect students to pay €1,500 in registration fees and still go ahead with building that white elephant of a new Students Union building? Are you living on the same planet as the rest of us or are you happy to plod along as Butler's lapdog for the next year? While students face; unemployment, massive debt, high rental expenditure, high cost of living expenses, fees etc... I mean, this detachment from the realities of your electorate is comparable to Robert Mugabe. Will I receive a concerted, intelligible response from you or are you going to waffle and pander the usual SU bullshit?

    Regards,
    El Siglo.*

    I wonder will he get back to me at all?;)




    *I gave him my real name but for the purposes of boards I'm giving my username.


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