UCDSU - Should we just ignore them and start our own Union?

Red Alert

Isn't that the Societies Committee?

Jev/N

n7sen wrote: »

I was wondering where SU gets its money?anyone knows exactly?

From the students?

Jev/N

Just a few points on this topic... I was gonna quote and reply etc. but it's just too much hassle.

I do have to agree with some points raised by OP, such as the campaigns etc. but in the grand scheme of things it's USI who should be leading the pack about the fees reintroduction and it's also the students themselves who should be out making up numbers although the march in the city went well.

I think the healthcare fees think is a joke but I would agree with it if the health centre was expanded so you could actually get a doctor when you needed one, not a week later as I discovered on a number of occasions.

I'd have to defend the new student centre even though so many people here are vehemently against it. There was a vote and the majority of those who voted, voted for it. Is it the 'No' campaign that people have gripes with?

With regard to Ents, I don't see such a problem? (I will note at this point that I was involved in Ents for the 4 years I was in UCD) €70,000 when balanced for the year isn't the worst considering the amount of some of the other expenditures. Also, look at the balance difference between 07/08 and 08/09.

TheJeanGenie

A big problem is that the SU is successful on a lower class level, reps ensuring students know about certain issues and parties etc. However when it comes to the big issues such as an improved students centre and introducing fees they fail to involve the entire student body. I believed the anti-fees protest to be laughable and disorganised, they just whined and didn't mention any alternatives to fees.
Perhaps instead of creating a new union they should split the existing one, having each focus on a) issues which face the college as a whole b) issues which face particular schools within the college.

Pride Fighter

Yes.

Stepherunie

Red Alert wrote: »

I'm not sure Stepherunie ever actually e-mailed the postgrads to say she was the postgrad rep. Just saying it.

No I didn't. My contact details were included in a letter sent by UCD, which I was told was sent to all postgraduate students in UCD.

IIRC my details were also included in a Union email sent to all students in the college and were available on the UCDSU website and the Freshers guide.

My contact details were also sent to all the graduate administrators by the Dean of Graduate Studies and students were often referred to me by them.

In hindsight sending an email was something I probably should have done, I just didn't think to do it.

KeyLimePie

I've always wonder, does Arts have student reps ? Cause I'd like to go for it if we do....

Mardy Bum

Yes class reps. They are in the small denominated classes and in the bigger omnibus ones.

TheJeanGenie

Is it just me or does anyone else immediately associate class rep with party organiser? They also make it their job to inform people who don't attend lectures about upcoming assignments and/or exams. Of course this is a difficult job to take on on top of their own studies, but when you take into consideration issues facing the student body surely fighting fees is far more important than planning a party.

Mardy Bum

TheJeanGenie wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else immediately associate class rep with party organiser? They also make it their job to inform people who don't attend lectures about upcoming assignments and/or exams. Of course this is a difficult job to take on on top of their own studies, but when you take into consideration issues facing the student body surely fighting fees is far more important than planning a party.

That could be a generalisation!

TheJeanGenie

Well this is what I encountered, lol. Don't get me wrong there are students who miss lectures for genuine reasons but I was just trying to make the point that as class rep there are alot of trivial tasks to take care of before you even consider these major issues of expanding or improving the campus or fees/charges.

Mardy Bum

TheJeanGenie wrote: »

Well this is what I encountered, lol. Don't get me wrong there are students who miss lectures for genuine reasons but I was just trying to make the point that as class rep there are alot of trivial tasks to take care of before you even consider these major issues of expanding or improving the campus or fees/charges.

It isnt the class reps job to expand the campus or improve it. The earlier part of your post entails what is expected of them. Its does higher up that should be doing the major issues. The class reps job is just to notify the SU on their classes feelings.

Riamfada

IMO class reps are generally unopposed and its a foot in the door with the union and a free weekend away to get locked and wreck a small wexford town ! Ive only met 1 class rep in my 4 years in UCD that really worked for his class.

Rob Palementeri

TheJeanGenie

I've yet to witness my class being asked about a particular issue which indicates to me a breakdown in communication between students and 'higher up'. If there was someone elected to do this job specifically while another person dealt with the tasks of class rep this could improve the situation of students being landed with information such as the health charge.

Mardy Bum

Grimes wrote: »

Rob Palementeri

My class rep:D

Riamfada

My department ran its own class rep elections who dealt directly with the head of the school and the students. Worked much better. The SU seat sat empty. We wernt interested in Club 21 concessions.

aequinoctium

Grimes wrote: »

My department ran its own class rep elections who dealt directly with the head of the school and the students. Worked much better. The SU seat sat empty. We wernt interested in Club 21 concessions.

several departments do that. it seems to work well
unfortunately my dept doesnt but i am tempted to maybe suggest it to an enthusiastic lecturer who could bring it up in a dept meeting.

El Siglo

Maybe this might appear a bit mad or silly or just the ramblings of a lunatic but anyway just a few thoughts (I hope I don't appear to mad, it's not my intention).
There’s one thing that’s annoyed me fierce about all of this, is that we as UCD students have forgotten our roots so to speak and the UCDSU is the antithesis of this. Our roots; laugh at them or not are steeped in a tradition of openness and opposition to injustice. These cornerstones of our university are gone, they’ve been replaced with self righteous hacks waiting to progress into real politics, our roots are now poster campaigns of drink promotions in crappy nightclubs. The UCDSU, is a mirror of the administration, it’s a docile kitten with a ball of string that’s more concerned about lining its pockets than it is about the students welfare (that’s the crux of it). I actually believed the union was something useful, was something to be proud of, to be apart of. But, that pride and adoration has dissipated. The union is more of a mini-government, a tokenism by the College authorities to the students to show “yes we care about our students’ opinions’ sure we’re working with the union on this!” The fact is; how can it be a union for students, if it’s funded by the College. How can you be independent and operating for students if you’re paid by the College? You could join the union and try and improve it from within, but you would be pissing into the wind. The union is rotten, it’s a hub of cronyism, just like every other institution or quango in this country, it’s a rotten little boys club. It’s the same kinds of people, year in and year out and I’m just fed up as are most students I’ve encountered. People that don’t vote in the SU elections, do so because they’re vote won’t make a difference, they’re choices are literally a giant douche and a turd sandwich. The ones that do vote are usually harassed into doing so or they have a friend of a friend running in an election. Our union isn’t a union, it’s a mini-government and as Thomas Jefferson said; “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” The reason why the SU can do what it likes is that it doesn’t think we as students care about the running of the place, because for so long we were more worried about getting our J1’s in order than we were about the education standards at undergrad level etc… Well folks, they’re taking away everything from us, we’re going to be paying for everything now with absolutely no help from the union, and as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn put it; “You can have power over people as long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power.”

parker kent

El Siglo wrote: »

People that don’t vote in the SU elections, do so because they’re vote won’t make a difference, they’re choices are literally a giant douche and a turd sandwich. The ones that do vote are usually harassed into doing so or they have a friend of a friend running in an election.

That sums up SU elections perfectly!

Riamfada

parker kent wrote: »

That sums up SU elections perfectly!

Generally I wouldnt care about all of this but in 10 years when these people are TD's swindlining the country out of money like their forefathers.

dajaffa

El Siglo wrote: »

The fact is; how can it be a union for students, if it’s funded by the College. How can you be independent and operating for students if you’re paid by the College?

It's actually funded by the students, about €20 from the reg fee funds it, €7 of which goes to USI (for full time students anyway).

El Siglo wrote: »

People that don’t vote in the SU elections, do so because they’re vote won’t make a difference

The annoying thing is that this is the exact situation where it can. Butsy said two years ago that charges wouldn't come in without SU consent, and with different sabbats he wouldn't have got it...

Riamfada

dajaffa wrote: »

The annoying thing is that this is the exact situation where it can. Butsy said two years ago that charges wouldn't come in without SU consent, and with different sabbats he wouldn't have got it...

Students cannot vote on this. There will be no vote. The voting system does not work in UCD because of block voting and bullying. Especially in council. The SU has given its consent to Health Service charges without any consultation with anyone outside the corridor.

seraphimvc

Mardy Bum wrote: »

This is Ireland, crocked shenagains and bad leadership from the people in charge is a thing engrained in the Irish mentality that we just ignore and crib about to no affect i.e Dev Haughey Bertie all in between and now the current shower, ucd student unions no different.

yup exactly what i wanna say after i read what OP said.

THIS is ireland you are talking here mates.

I dont know what did UCDSU do for us all these years except organising night outs and giving out free banana during exams - useless to me since i still need to pay for my drinks in the club and i can really afford a banana myself.

Tom65

I've always been of the opinion that while the SU do a lot of good work, there's a lot left to be desired. As a source of information, and things like the SU shop they are very valuable for students, and I think a lot of this isn't really appreciated by the student body as a whole.

I think the SU do themselves a disservice by running things like nights out, drinks promotions (and those ridiculous anti-drinking ads that were all over campus a while ago). I agree with whoever said Ents should be separated from the SU. I would imagine (or hope) that if you asked the student body whether they'd take a hit in the Ents budget to fund the Health Centre, they'd say yes. I think a lot of people don't acknowledge the financial realities that the SU and UCD as a whole are facing, and in light of that, I don't think €25 is a lot to pay for a doctor's visit (€40 for a psychiatrist is a different issue). However, I do think that things like the Health Centre that should be at the very core of what the SU do. So when they come out in favour of those fees, it dents their reputation.

33% God

El Siglo wrote: »

Our union isn’t a union, it’s a mini-government

Absolutely spot on.
The song goes "You don't get me, I'm part of the union". Does anyone here feel like an actual part of the union? You don't have to be a shop steward to participate fully in a trade union, and you shouldn't have to be a class rep to participate fully in a student's union.

Grimes wrote: »

Generally I wouldnt care about all of this but in 10 years when these people are TD's swindlining the country out of money like their fathers.

<_<
>_>
<_<

...sorry

Riamfada

ahaha ya cant get me im part of the union

I heard once that a limo was hired to drive from the Sports center to the Quinn building

TheJeanGenie

Really for next year elections they should have to swim across the lake or run the perimeter of UCD. At least then it would be exciting rather than just plain annoying.

mad lad

To go back to the original question, there would be little point in trying to set up an alternative union. UCDSU is actually structurally more democratic than the Oireachtas. There are provisions on how class can hold meetings and mandate the reps to propose and vote in favour of motions.

The problem is that the SU is totally irrelevant to most people, they see no difference from year to year, couldn't give a toss who wins elections, and never get involved in anything the union does.

Anything Redmond or Exec support can be overturned by the majority of council. It's likely that a motion will be thrown into council and the policy on the health charges will overturned.

Riamfada

Well if one could convince a large number of students to officially remove themselves from the students union, a right protected by the Irish Constitiution they could easily join a body to represent their interests which is in no way associated with UCDSU or UCD. If the number is high enough and the members act, picket and work with one voice there would be no reason why UCD admin would not take a second union seriously.

TheJeanGenie

What's the bet that SU will change their view on charges by the end of this year and they'll be outside at the lake with that damn megaphone protesting against health fees?