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McCabe Killers released

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    #62
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »
    If you want to start complaining about these guys getting out then you're going to have to complain about all the other terrorists that got released and it turn you're going to have to complain about the GFA.
    If you're going to complain about all that then what are the alternatives.
    A PIRA left removed from main stream politics and out in the cold?
    Hmmm, wonder where that would lead?

    Personally I don't care that they got out. What I do care about is a member of Dáil Éireann collecting cop killers on their release. And simultaneously holding themselve up as the "republican" party with an alternative view for Ireland. What alternative view would that be I wonder..hmmmm.....


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    #63
    WillieCocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭WillieCocker


    prinz wrote: »
    What alternative view would that be I wonder..hmmmm.....

    There is a cause....it will never go away...it comes before everything else......and anyone involved deserves loyalty & respect regardless of their social activities.:o


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    #64
    marco murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Welcome home lads.


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    #65
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Can anyone check the green book and look up the punishment for a volunteer misusing IRA property (guns) and carrying out an unsanctioned robbery in the 26 counties, or just ask Mr. Ferris when these guys are going be court-martialed


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    #66
    marco murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭marco murphy


    Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »
    People seem to be missing the point here.
    Yes, these guys were members of the PIRA and yes they killed a Garda in the line of duty.
    However, it was decided to release all PIRA prisoners as part of the deal for the PIRA to decommission, disband, etc.

    These guys have served over 10 years.
    We get all worked up about it because it happend down here.
    It's a bit rich to be ranting about this when you look at the situation in the North.
    The person who carried out the massive Canary Wharf bombing was released after 18 months.
    The person who carried out all the sniper killings in South Armagh was released after 18 months.
    People in Britain and people in the North had to stomach all this as part of a deal for the greater good.

    If you want to start complaining about these guys getting out then you're going to have to complain about all the other terrorists that got released and it turn you're going to have to complain about the GFA.
    If you're going to complain about all that then what are the alternatives.
    A PIRA left removed from main stream politics and out in the cold?
    Hmmm, wonder where that would lead?

    At the end of the day these guys got the short end of the stick.
    While mass murderes got released after serving 18 months these guys were hung out to dry by the Sinn Féin / IRA leadership.
    Why? because middle ground voters don't like voting for cop killers.
    Rightly or wrongly these guys were risking their lives for the benefit of the PIRA and for what they believed was for the benefit of Ireland.
    In return the PIRA hung them out to dry.
    Do you think that the PIRA would have so easily turned its back on them if they had been from South Armagh?

    Hung out to dry? The lads in jail themselves asked not to be turned into a political football and made demands not to be used in any sort of deal.


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    #67
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Perestroika wrote: »
    Welcome home lads.

    Are you fcuking serious?


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    #68
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Don't know about anyone else but I for one have sent an email to a number of folks in positions of power about how a certain T.D. Ferris has contravened in a number of ways the Code of Conduct for Members of Dáil Éireann by his very presence outside the prison and his contact with the released men. Particularly Sections 1 through 4 of the Code, which was adopted by the Dáil under Article 15.10 of the Constitution.

    I would invite anyone else with a second to spare to do the same!


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    #69
    themont85
    Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    WillieCocker wrote: »
    There is a cause....it will never go away...it comes before everything else......and anyone involved deserves loyalty & respect regardless of their social activities.:o

    I suppose robbing a post office all contributes to the cause. It may have been 'unauthorised' but how that allows the IRA and SInn Fein to claim under the GFA previousely is a joke. The fact that witnesses just so happened to forget certain events is a joke. The IRA are a glorified gang and Sinn Fein no better.


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    #70
    El Siglo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Surely the state wouldn't just 'settle upon' manslaughter as a conviction, in such a serious situation.

    Yes they would, we've such an obfusticated legal system that you can literally get away with murder and that's no joke (State Vs. Holmes), if one document relating to case has a missing comma or full stop a case can be thrown out on a technicality. They do tend to 'settle upon' a conviction, because it might improbable to prove the intent of the actions of the men charged (mens rea) and intervening circumstances such as the position that the charged men were put in (novus actus interveniens) and hence we get our 'guillty act' (actus reus), again it's like a debate, the argument against the men can't just be baseless and has to really get them on the mens rea, because this is the important one, if you can't prove their mind set, you can't get them on their subsequent actions (actus reus) and the novus actus interveniens will then affect the mens rea in that the men were desperate etc... never intended upon murder it was a bank robbery, they were cornered, lot's of intervening factors etc... with this, manslaughter was the only charge based on the evidence that the State could prosecute on.

    They served 10 and a half years, I believe. Whether you agree with that or not, it's the time that the courts deemed was worthy punishment. If you have a problem with the judicial system, perhaps you should raise this issue.

    That's the problem, right there and infact you're entirely spot on in that statement. It is a problem that the legal system will have to adjust, because murder carries a mandatory life sentence but manslaughter is at the judge's discretion and this can be some where between 3 and 10 years. Again, our legal system needs an overhaul in this matter.


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    #71
    WillieCocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭WillieCocker


    Perestroika wrote: »
    Welcome home lads.

    A balaclava in one hand and an armalite in the other?
    You have the right mentality for them scumbags.
    Well done.:rolleyes:


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    #72
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    It's funny how there is almost a complete absence of the usual SF/ IRA sympathizers on this thread.

    Also it's a disgrace that an elected representative of the state was seen associating/ collecting convicted cop killers from prison

    They seem to be getting an awful lot of support from SF/IRA for people who were operating in an "unsanctioned" manner when they murdered that Garda


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    #73
    lynchiered
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭lynchiered


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Are you fcuking serious?

    Yes we are serious,

    Welcome Home Lads!!!

    Ye are true soldiers or Ireland, while others ignored British occupation in Ireland you stood up and said NO!!, While the Irish Government watched Nationalist communities be torn apart by loyalist death squads you went out and stopped them.

    I wish you and your families all the best,

    Beir Bua !!!


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    #74
    Armin_Tamzarian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    I'm not having a go at Armin_Tamzarian, I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of the shambolic way in which this operation was denied and denounced by the PIRA leadership and the subsequent events.

    That was my enitre point.


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    #75
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    lynchiered wrote: »
    Yes we are serious,

    Welcome Home Lads!!!

    Ye are true soldiers or Ireland, while others ignored British occupation in Ireland you stood up and said NO!!, While the Irish Government watched Nationalist communities be torn apart by loyalist death squads you went out and stopped them.

    I wish you and your families all the best,

    Beir Bua !!!

    haha what a retarded outlook to have on life.

    How was killing a Garda or robbing a post van anything other than pure scummery?

    Back in your box, troll


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    #76
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    lynchiered wrote: »
    While the Irish Government watched Nationalist communities be torn apart by loyalist death squads you went out and stopped them.

    Ah, so they were waiting outside the Post Office in Limerick to emm... protect it from Loyalist death squads. Makes sense!


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    #77
    JW91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭JW91


    prinz wrote: »
    Don't know about anyone else but I for one have sent an email to a number of folks in positions of power about how a certain T.D. Ferris has contravened in a number of ways the Code of Conduct for Members of Dáil Éireann by his very presence outside the prison and his contact with the released men. Particularly Sections 1 through 4 of the Code, which was adopted by the Dáil under Article 15.10 of the Constitution.

    I would invite anyone else with a second to spare to do the same!


    Do you honestly think that anyone you emailed is going to care about your opinion? Do you think they will even bother to read it?

    Everyone here is getting up on their high horse about all of this but at the end of the day these guys served their time. They committed a crime but they served what was deemed to be a fair and just sentence for the crime they committed.

    They are entitled to their freedom.

    Martin Ferris has never tried to hide his republican view points. It doesn't bother me who he associates with in his free time. It's none of my business and none of any of yer business either


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    #78
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    BennyLava wrote: »
    It's funny how there is almost a complete absence of the usual SF/ IRA sympathizers on this thread.

    Sorry I'm late, what did I miss!?


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    #79
    General Zod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    They killed someone in 1996 and are out now, 13 years is hardly a sentence for murder and attempted murder is it?
    It's not a sentence for murder, it's a sentence for manslaughter.


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    #80
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    if they remain in the State i hope the Gardai make their pathetic lives a living hell each and every day


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    #81
    General Zod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    José Alaninho wrote: »
    Sorry I'm late, what did I miss!?

    the usual righteous outrage with an extended disco chorus of fact ignoring.


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    #82
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    General Zod wrote: »
    the usual righteous outrage with an extended disco chorus of fact ignoring.

    Phew, thought for a sec it might have been something different. Sorry for the interruption!

    /leaves


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    #83
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    General Zod wrote: »
    the usual righteous outrage with an extended disco chorus of fact ignoring.

    Apologies I forgot righteous outrage is usually the preserve of Shinners, how dare anyone disagree with their glorious vision for Ireland's future:rolleyes:


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    #84
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    These killers risked other innocent people's lives during their activities.In a robbery in a Tramore bank the patriots murdered an innocent customer who moved to calm his frightened child during a PIRA active period in 1979 pre Mulleragh/Mountbatten murders .people in Patrickswell living close to Walsh and friends did not view them as patriots even before the Adare shooting. The violent and lucrative actions of so called patriots emboldened other criminal elements and gave them ready access to armaments


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    #85
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    bernardo mac wrote: »
    In a robbery in a Tramore bank the patriots murdered an innocent customer who moved to calm his frightened child during a PIRA active period in 1982.

    Just to say that was in 1979 and the poor customer was named Eamon Ryan.


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    #86
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    They served time and they should be free. Fair enough. Should have been longer, should have been for murder but what can you do.

    What I find fascinating are the defenders of the action (that riddling a Garda, a husband, a father is somehow a glorious act?) and Ferris meeting these guys. Imagine any other TD in his place and any murderer/criminal in the place of the lads. Amazing that people think this natural. Of course these are the same people who will vehemnetly deny any link between the two groups these guys represent.


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    #87
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Its a disgrace when a group can undertake an armed robbery, murder a Garda and attempt the murder of another and get out of prison 10 years later. Then add the fact that they were members of the PIRA.


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    #88
    WillieCocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭WillieCocker


    lynchiered wrote: »
    Yes we are serious,

    Welcome Home Lads!!!

    Ye are true soldiers or Ireland, while others ignored British occupation in Ireland you stood up and said NO!!, While the Irish Government watched Nationalist communities be torn apart by loyalist death squads you went out and stopped them.

    I wish you and your families all the best,

    Beir Bua !!!

    Shinners and the gang mentality.:rolleyes:


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    #89
    Armin_Tamzarian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    Perestroika wrote: »
    Hung out to dry? The lads in jail themselves asked not to be turned into a political football and made demands not to be used in any sort of deal.

    They obviously went along with it but you can't honestly believe it was their idea to stay in jail while the rest of the PIRA got early release.


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    #90
    lynchiered
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭lynchiered


    My name is URL wrote: »
    haha what a retarded outlook to have on life.

    How was killing a Garda or robbing a post van anything other than pure scummery?

    Back in your box, troll

    These men were trying to acquiring money to fund a war the Free State Goverment were afraid to fight. I do not consider this "Scummery".


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    #91
    General Zod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    BennyLava wrote: »
    Apologies I forgot righteous outrage is usually the preserve of Shinners, how dare anyone disagree with their glorious vision for Ireland's future:rolleyes:


    Two men were convicted of a crime, served their sentence as was handed down to them, and are now released. Film at 11.


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