DART+ (DART Expansion)

A1ACo · 02-09-2025 12:14PM

I just see now that a consortium of companies have let it be known that they have come together to bid for the Metrolink, and the article is here from this morning:

Consortium of five international companies join forces to bid for Dublin’s Metrolink

Interestingly, I also saw an article yesterday that mentioned three bidders had been pre-qualified to operate Copenhagen's also automated Metro line (43km long) from 2027, for 12 years, and that one of the consortium bidders included 'ComfortDelGro Irish Citylink' (based in Galway…).

That same bid consortium included 'RAPT Dev' which I also see is included in the above mentioned consortium looking to Dublin's Metrolink:

Three bidders for Copenhagen metro operating contract - International Railway Journal

The Journal article indicates that there are at least a few companies around that could be used for DART and other rail big infrastructure projects, and this couples with domestic concrete producers puts the country in relatively good stead for potential rail projects?… e.g. another rail construction/ Ireland Inc. article I stumbled across (i.e. interweb shoved towards me!)

Irish trial assemblies complete as huge railway bridge sets sail for Stockport

spillit67 · 02-09-2025 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123776042#Comment_123776042

I don’t think you would move a station from current location given it’s in a town, but I can see the logic. At the very least the local Bus Connects routes are now very well set up around there to feed into Kilcoole and Greystones, they really need an increase in rail service to improve that further.

I think the existing P&R proposal further north makes the most sense given the distance of the N11 from the rail line. Unfortunate it won’t connect with the DART but Brian Caulfield has mentioned that the plan for the Bray Luas now will come with the UCD / N11 Luas with two lines intersecting at Sandyford. It won’t have the speed of the DART into the city centre but would provide really quick connections to Cherrywood, Sandyford and UCD at least & would surely convince quite a few to ditch the car. I expect that the as yet unnamed Luas line to be fast tracked in the mid 2030s will be that one.

Likely more bang for their buck for the NTA to spread the investment between the N11 bus lane, moderate Greystones DART improvements / DART shuttle and a Luas over the next 15 years. They’ll greatly improve South Eastern connectivity, sort out the Sandyford issue and provide a direct UCD connection. I still think the Bray Head tunnel is worth considering based on the potential there though and also as a risk mitigation against Brunell’s folly falling into the sea. My point here would be that if it costs a net €200m to improve services a lot and you mitigate that risk, is it not worth just biting the bullet on that in the next decade and a half?

p_haugh · 02-09-2025 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778649#Comment_123778649

In terms of the Fassaroe P&R, the L15 could be rerouted to stop there as it passes right by it in each direction. That would provide a connection to Bray Station for the DART

spillit67 · 02-09-2025 02:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778806#Comment_123778806

Well if the Luas also goes to Bray Station as intended it can do the same thing.

p_haugh · 02-09-2025 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778885#Comment_123778885

Ideally yes, but realistically that won't be happening for a good few years. The L15 solution would be a stop-gap measure until such a point that the Luas is extended out to Bray.

spacetweek · 03-09-2025 11:06AM

Are you implying that people park at Fassaroe and get the Luas to Bray if they wish to get the Dart into town? That would require changing Luas as there will not be a Fassaroe-Bray service.

GerardKeating · 03-09-2025 02:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123603862#Comment_123603862

I remember south bound services in the morning, terminating at Pearse and reversing to the terminating platform. I think it was for a Wexford or Gorey service to pass

BestWestern · 03-09-2025 03:57PM

Are the additional platforms at Pearse long enough for eight carriage trains? If so, that would be an easy way to reduce some of the congestion at Connolly.

goingnowhere · 03-09-2025 04:24PM

Pearse only has 2 platforms since 2009

The old platform 5 was long enough for a 4 coach DART, but you could only depart with passengers, it was not a signalled move to arrive into the platform

BestWestern · 03-09-2025 04:33PM

Huh? To depart, a train has to arrive?

From memory, there were Southbound platforms on either side of the station?

It could be an Interesting way to add Southbound peak capacity without adding strain to connolly.

goingnowhere · 03-09-2025 04:41PM

Pearse had until 1982 5 platforms

From 1983 onwards it had 3 platforms signalled to take passenger trains., 3/4/5 (subsequently renumbered 1/2/3)

Platform 5 was electrified and was able to depart trains with passengers onboard, but it was not possible to signal a passenger carrying train into platform 5. For a period in 2003 there was a scheduled departure from platform 5 to Bray at about 1750. The set to operate this came in empty at the end of the morning rush hour from Bray

When Pearse was redeveloped to support the new Pearse Street entrance platform 5 and the bulk of the old P1/2 was removed.

Only thing you could do now is to terminate a northbound service at Grand Canal Dock and run it empty forward into the former Boston sidings which is a signalled move for empty stock

Citizen Six · 03-09-2025 07:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123782754#Comment_123782754

As mentioned, there's only two platforms at Pearse, the northbound and southbound through platforms. There's a siding on the northbound side, that connects to the station, but no room for platform access, and it's not signalled for passengers.

Since the Boston sidings were removed, there's only space to hold two 8 carriage trains there, and if there's a train in the siding connected to the station, it needs the other space clear to be able to get out into traffic.

Consonata · 03-09-2025 07:57PM

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/wicklow-district/transport-chiefs-consider-double-tracking-rail-line-south-of-bray-too-costly/a601870992.html

In response to a parliamentary question, Transport Minister Darragh O’Brien has confirmed a cost analysis of double tracking the route will not take place, as many of these solutions would be considered too costly and unlikely to be justifiable, as the line would not be expected to support more than one or two trains per hour in each direction.

Seems like an exceedingly foolish thing to say to be honest. The governments own plan has services at 3x per hour per direction, and if you're extending the DART to Wicklow this likely would want to increase again to yield much benefit.

It would be a pretty poor sell to terminate Rosslare trains at Greystones for a half hourly service there to be honest. At that stage just scrap the alignment entirely.

DrivingSouth · 03-09-2025 08:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783329#Comment_123783329

The current focus is centred around the DART+ Coastal South project, which involves improving Dart services on the existing line south of Dublin city, with the aim of enhancing services between Bray and Greystones to a frequency of every twenty minutes.

Did you read all the article. It's saying the Darts will be every 20 min at greystones.

Consonata · 04-09-2025 08:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783459#Comment_123783459

3x per hour is the same as every 20 minutes. Underlining my point again OBrien doesn't know his own brief.

KrisW1001 · 04-09-2025 09:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784151#Comment_123784151

Capacity is 3x per hour, but the line is not expected to support more than two per hour. Support here clearly means from passengers.

The answer shows O'Brien does understand the difference between capacity ("can") and demand ("should").

If demand is below capacity, and is unlikely to exceed our, why spend billions to increase that capacity?

Please don't say "future proofing" : there's nowhere to build along this route, and Greystones/Wicklow is already as far out as any commuter network should go.

goingnowhere · 04-09-2025 09:52AM

The plan is to be able to support 3 trains per direction per hour between Bray and Greystones

You get that through

Reconstruction of the south end of Bray station to eliminate the current short single track section between two double track sections
Two track section approaching Greystones
Time saving from ETCS over current ATP ~90 seconds per journey

Consonata · 04-09-2025 09:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784238#Comment_123784238

It wouldn't cost billions to tunnel the head, a bn at most given there will be no stations and the length of it. We spend similar amounts on roads in the middle of nowhere. The route likely will need to be rebuilt in the not-so-distant future regardless with coastal erosion.

EVBusFan · 04-09-2025 10:05AM

I believe the confusion is that article discusses services between Bray <> Greystones and Greystones <> Rosslare Europort - and the infrastructure needed for the later - but isn't making it clear what they are refering to at any moment

The headline bellow isn't very specific - the first line in the body is more clear

In response to a parliamentary question, Transport Minister Darragh O’Brien has confirmed a cost analysis of double tracking the route will not take place, as many of these solutions would be considered too costly and unlikely to be justifiable, as the line would not be expected to support more than one or two trains per hour in each direction.

I believe the above quote only refers to the Greystones to Rosslare services

Consonata · 04-09-2025 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784392#Comment_123784392

That makes more sense, thanks. Yeah I couldn't imagine it would warrant it. Like ultimately I would definitely see the justification of terminating Rosslare/Wex services at Bray beyond the head. Like my ideal would be that Bray would be the beginning of a Metrolink link in at the southern end so you essentially have 4 tracks north of Bray feeding into the city.

Stopping at Greystones would kill the value of it IMHO, tunnelling the head will be expensive but it will solve the problem which will need to be solved regardless, for a generation.

blanch152 · 04-09-2025 01:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783329#Comment_123783329

Extending the DART to Wicklow means installing charging capacity at Wicklow, it doesn't mean anything more than that.

Tunnelling Bray Head is unlikely this century, and not worth it for the benefit.

goingnowhere · 04-09-2025 01:47PM

Platforms at Wicklow and Kilcoole need to be extended and Wicklow needs an accessible footbridge.

Also need ETCS signalling installed

it’s a lot more than the charging gear

Consonata · 04-09-2025 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123785032#Comment_123785032

The line will fall into the sea well before then

Ciaran · 05-09-2025 01:06PM

I assume this is the parliamentary question being referenced. The quotes make a bit more sense in the context of the whole thing.

Woah · 06-09-2025 08:21PM

Public consultation for the Kylemore station starts on Monday with an event in ballyfermot library on the 11th. The website doesn't seem to be live but apparently it will be to the west side of the bridge with the entrance on the north side.