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*****Lesnar Vs. Mir*** Spoiler

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  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    vflhp wrote: »
    When he was first announced his UFC debut a lot of old WWE fans were saying "Ohhh did you see what he did to Goldberg".

    ...but, didn't Goldberg beat him? :pac:

    Goldberg would obviously kick ass in the UFC then...:eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    "Lesnar's cardio won't be a problem. Or at least I'll be very surprised if it is."

    With Mirs going to be constantly trying for Lesnars weak spots (too many to mention) Lesnar will find it a chore to keep him away. I'm not denying Lesnars cardio won't be top notch, but I can see Mirs being better IMO..


    "It was WWE. And really, what fans who knew anything about MMA brought his matches with Goldberg into it other than in an extremely tongue-in-cheek manner?"

    I was only using Goldberg as an example, but a lot of WWE fans did think that Lesnars wrestling skills were a lot better than they are. He is a very good wrestler but not as good as WWE made him out to be.

    "Bet that doesn't happen."

    Wanna put a fiver on that? *Spits hand and offers it to amacachi*


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,976 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    vflhp wrote: »
    a lot of WWE fans did think that Lesnars wrestling skills were a lot better than they are. He is a very good wrestler but not as good as WWE made him out to be.

    What?

    He was 104-6 in college. He was probably going to be on the US Olympic wrestling team if he had not been offered bags of cash by WWE.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Naw, no one said anything of the sort. However, at present he is ranked as the number one heavyweight by various MMA analysts and indeed other fighters. He probably won't cement that legacy until he fights in the UFC though.
    vflhp wrote: »
    Lesnars weight will be an advantage but also a disadvantage. He'll get tired early and that's when Mir will strike the kill. Its simple body science. I also think Mir has a biggers arsenal to wearing his opponents down.

    Love the way you skipped over my NCAA. Sorry but based on past performances Lesnar has better cardio that Mir. You cant say he tires early.
    vflhp wrote: »
    Lesnar is all talk and not as much action.

    This frankly ridiculous to anyone who has seen his fights.
    vflhp wrote: »
    He disrespects his opponents and has a horrible problem losing

    Again Heath and his corner were extremely disrespectful to Brock.You are unfair and inconstant standards to Brock here.
    vflhp wrote: »
    Yes, and WWE dubbed him as The Next Big Thing. I'm no fan of WWE but I was back then and it was simply ridiculus. The matches he fought made him out to be an all out monster.

    Erm because he was, face it they were hardly going to give an effeminate character
    vflhp wrote: »
    When he was first announced his UFC debut a lot of old WWE fans were saying "Ohhh did you see what he did to Goldberg".

    It was scripted and not only did ill-informed fans think he was the greatest, he thought that himself.

    This was counter balanced by idiots online who thought he was only a fake pro wrestler.

    Brock never regarded himself as the greatest he was deeply unhappy with aspects of Pro Wrestling he didn’t excel at.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    DoireNod wrote: »
    ...but, didn't Goldberg beat him? :pac:

    Goldberg would obviously kick ass in the UFC then...:eek:

    Well Pride wanted to sign him regardless
    vflhp wrote: »
    I'm not denying Lesnars cardio won't be top notch, but I can see Mirs being better IMO..

    Based on what?
    DoireNod wrote: »
    I was only using Goldberg as an example, but a lot of WWE fans did think that Lesnars wrestling skills were a lot better than they are. He is a very good wrestler but not as good as WWE made him out to be.

    WWE rarely emphasised his amateur background. Just to be clear you do know that amateur and Pro Wrestling are completely different right?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Dr_MaSoN


    Brock by TKO end of Round 2


  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    rovert wrote: »
    Well Pride wanted to sign him regardless
    I was making a joke...
    WWE rarely emphasised his amateur background. Just to be clear you do know that amateur and Pro Wrestling are completely different right?
    You misquoted. It wasn't me who said that. I take offence! :P
    Love the way you skipped over my NCAA. Sorry but based on past performances Lesnar has better cardio that Mir. You cant say he tires early.
    I skipped over nothing. I wasn't speaking with regard to that. I was commenting on how Fedor was ranked as the top heavyweight in MMA by various sources. Incidentally, something I believe is probably coupled with more prestige than an NCAA title.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    "This frankly ridiculous to anyone who has seen his fights."

    I didn't say he wasn't a great fighter but I think he over-praises himself and talks more than his abilities. Lots of MMA fighters are guilty of this, but not to the extent of Lesnar.

    "Again Heath and his corner were extremely disrespectful to Brock.You are unfair and inconstant standards to Brock here."

    You just can't say he is very humble and thankful in defeat. Again, when his ego takes a dent, it shakes wildly.

    "Erm because he was, face it they were hardly going to give an effeminate character"

    No, he actually wasn't. Apparently he went on a 'career ending-spree" and was apparantly the greatest wrestler ever. He was made out to be an all out monster and considering it was all scripted, his true quality was way below how he performed. His opponents lay down and took it, because he was told to. His challenges in UFC erode his skill as his opponents fight back now.

    "This was counter balanced by idiots online who thought he was only a fake pro wrestler.

    Brock never regarded himself as the greatest he was deeply unhappy with aspects of Pro Wrestling he didn’t excel at."

    Of course he didn't excel. Anyone who goes into Pro Wrestling thinking they'll excel on pure skill is sadly mistaken. It all depends on the long term popularity and heat a wrestler can earn. Fans got sick of seeing him winning and in turn got sick of him. He was stupid to assume this.

    I honestly can't say Lesnar is a bad fighter and his wrestling skills are some of the best. He can't match Mir's speed and one kick from Mir could finish it, and Mir could also have him in a submission like THAT *clicks fingers vicsiously*.

    Well, I think we'll let the two of them decide who is better tonight. And yes, I will admit that Lesnar won fair and square.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    Based on what?


    WWE rarely emphasised his amateur background. Just to be clear you do know that amateur and Pro Wrestling are completely different right?

    Yes, and when I refer to Lesnars wrestling ability I am referring to his amatur success. That doesn't mean the "pro" side of things goes to his head after five years of "I'm the greatest" in WWE.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    DoireNod wrote: »
    You misquoted. It wasn't me who said that. I take offence! :P.

    We should learn how to quote then
    DoireNod wrote: »
    I skipped over nothing. I wasn't speaking with regard to that. I was commenting on how Fedor was ranked as the top heavyweight in MMA by various sources. Incidentally, something I believe is probably coupled with more prestige than an NCAA title.

    You were talking about who was the better athlete and Brock does have the better background. Rankings prove nothing and in MMA in particular they are incredible biased. Rankings by concept are intangible achievements while Championships aren’t.

    Seriously from a physical standpoint you can’t say Mir is a far better athlete. His attributes are once in a lifetime stuff.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    vflhp wrote: »
    Yes, and when I refer to Lesnars wrestling ability I am referring to his amatur success. That doesn't mean the "pro" side of things goes to his head after five years of "I'm the greatest" in WWE.

    When did he ever proclaim that? Link please.
    vflhp wrote: »
    I didn't say he wasn't a great fighter but I think he over-praises himself and talks more than his abilities. Lots of MMA fighters are guilty of this, but not to the extent of Lesnar.

    Again salesmanship, Brock is playing the heel. Sorry if it goes over your head.
    vflhp wrote: »
    No, he actually wasn't. Apparently he went on a 'career ending-spree" and was apparantly the greatest wrestler ever.

    Link?
    vflhp wrote: »
    He was made out to be an all out monster and considering it was all scripted, his true quality was way below how he performed.

    What?
    vflhp wrote: »
    His opponents lay down and took it, because he was told to. His challenges in UFC erode his skill as his opponents fight back now.

    So?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    Mir by Submission :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Can we leave the WWE out of this for gods sake. I went with Mir submission, this fight can go either way, not long to go!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    rovert wrote: »
    When did he ever proclaim that? Link please.



    Again salesmanship, Brock is playing the heel. Sorry if it goes over your head.



    Link?



    What?



    So?

    Some people just look for aruements!

    We all know you think you know better than everyone, just give it up.

    Lesnar by KO


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Some people just look for aruements!

    I wasnt looking for "aruements" I didnt start it I merely replied to them.
    MrStuffins wrote: »
    We all know you think you know better than everyone, just give it up.

    Sorry if I dont base my opinions on fighters based on apparentlys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    rovert wrote: »
    I wasnt looking for "aruements" I didnt start it I merely replied to them.



    Sorry if I dont base my opinions on fighters based on apparentlys.

    But you seem to base all your posts on arguing with other's posts!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    But you seem to base all your posts on arguing with other's posts!

    Likewise it seems and the last time I checked this a discussion board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    "When did he ever proclaim that? Link please."

    When false skill go to someones head they think they're the best. It is science, not a proclamation.


    "Again salesmanship, Brock is playing the heel. Sorry if it goes over your head."

    No, but you don't have to be a heel to be over praised. Look at babyface wrestlers who also praise themselves, to the delight of wrestling fans.


    Link?

    There was never a direct announcement but most can come to that conclusion when Paul Hayman made about a thousand speeches about Lesnar. Again, there is no direct link, but hundreds of thousands to suggest it.


    What?

    Because of his pro wrestling career being scripted, his wrestling skill couldn't be shown off because his victories were presented on a silver platter.

    So?

    So Lesnar will have a harder time winning as he is fighting a harder battles in UFC than any pro or amature wrestling fights. Simple.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,148 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    rovert wrote: »
    Likewise it seems and the last time I checked this a discussion board.

    No, if you notice, my first post in this thread was giving my views on the fight, yours was a :confused: because the OP obviously hadn't posted a poll yet.

    Silly! You'd think someone with your amount of posts would know it takes a couple of minutes to do up a poll.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    But you seem to base all your posts on arguing with other's posts!

    I agree and I think we're both to blame.

    I think you should respect each others opinions and agree with our own.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    vflhp it is pointless discussing this with you as you have only a vague understanding of Brocks time in WWE and you not being able to quote is wrecking my head. For the sake of this thread Im done, sorry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    rovert wrote: »
    vflhp it is pointless discussing this with you as you have only a vague understanding of Brocks time in WWE and you not being able to quote is wrecking my head. For the sake of this thread Im done, sorry.

    I agree fully with you but I can't understand why you would question my knowledge when you can't accept your wrong.

    Also, my lack of quoting has nothing to do with this and I have reported the post. Completely off-topic and is very insulting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    rovert wrote: »
    We should learn how to quote then
    Are you talking about you? You were the one who quoted me, when in fact it was some other poster's words.


    You were talking about who was the better athlete and Brock does have the better background. Rankings prove nothing and in MMA in particular they are incredible biased. Rankings by concept are intangible achievements while Championships aren’t.
    Thanks for telling me what I was talking about, wrong as you are. My comment about Fedor being ranked in many circles as the top heavyweight, was in relation to the point about 'The Baddest Man on the Planet' title. I'd advise you to read back over my posts if you're confused on this one.
    Seriously from a physical standpoint you can’t say Mir is a far better athlete. His attributes are once in a lifetime stuff.
    Being a superior athlete isn't just about physicality. I've said before that Lesnar is a scarily strong man who has great wrestling skills. However, he doesn't possess the same level of submission skill that Mir has. You can argue all day about who is the better athlete, but, face to face, Mir has one up on Lesnar, even though Lesnar is the current champion. We'll see what happens tonight. If Mir wins, it proves he's the superior athlete. If Brock wins, it will have to go to best two out of three ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    vflhp wrote: »
    I agree fully with you but I can't understand why you would question my knowledge when you can't accept your wrong.

    Look if this was a face to face conversation I’m sure we could hammer this out in a couple minutes tops but we both seem to coming from different levels/types of knowledge in regards to Pro Wrestling which is making things really hard to convey points to each other. I honestly don’t see how I’m wrong on anything I posted as conceited as that sounds,
    vflhp wrote: »
    Also, my lack of quoting has nothing to do with this and I have reported the post. Completely off-topic and is very insulting.

    It wasn’t meant to be insulting. I made fun of my inability to work the quote function in post #41. Sorry but the way you replied to posts made it really hard to reply in turn, it is just a common courtesy thing. Sorry if you if you took it as something very insulting I didn’t intend it to be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    rovert wrote:
    Look if this was a face to face conversation I’m sure we could hammer this out in a couple minutes tops but we both seem to coming from different levels/types of knowledge in regards to Pro Wrestling which is making things really hard to convey points to each other. I honestly don’t see how I’m wrong on anything I posted as conceited as that sounds
    Well, I can agree with you. While you may have a problem talking about pro wrestling and MMA to a person with more knowledge, I am fully capable of discussing it with people that have a lower knowledge. This is why I have been tolerating this discussion for four pages. (Did you notice how I learned to quote?)
    rovert wrote:
    It wasn’t meant to be insulting. I made fun of my inability to work the quote function in post #41. Sorry but the way you replied to posts made it really hard to reply in turn, it is just a common courtesy thing. Sorry if you if you took it as something very insulting I didn’t intend it to be.
    I have less than 300 posts on Boards (at time of writing) and I can't see how some text on a computer screen could have "wrecked your head". I don't understand what I mean. I hope my opinions haven't given you s black eye or a headache.

    I can only hope your head is in as good a physical and mental condition as it was before this thread.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    vflhp wrote: »
    Well, I can agree with you. While you may have a problem talking about pro wrestling and MMA to a person with more knowledge, I am fully capable of discussing it with people that have a lower knowledge. This is why I have been tolerating this discussion for four pages. (Did you notice how I learned to quote?)

    I have less than 300 posts on Boards (at time of writing) and I can't see how some text on a computer screen could have "wrecked your head". I don't understand what I mean. I hope my opinions haven't given you s black eye or a headache.

    I can only hope your head is in as good a physical and mental condition as it was before this thread.

    Now who is who insulting who here?

    I didnt say you had lower knowledge nor did I say you werent capable of discussing it quite the opposite in fact.

    Ok here your whole Brock has this massive ego thing is based of promotional interviews done “in character” and strap lines given to him by promoters. I won’t deny he has a strong self believe in real life but every high level has that don’t they? From what I read everyone who he has trained with said he is a clean slate who listens to everything they teach no matter it was MMA, Pro Wrestling, American Football or Amateur Wrestling and all his ex-workers seem to rooting for him tonight’s as they did in previous fights. When he was in WWE I never heard any backstage gossip that Brock an ego.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Jabberfly


    Mir by TKO end of second round


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    rovert wrote: »
    Now who is who insult who here?

    I didnt say you had lower knowledge nor did I say you werent capable of discussing it quite the opposite in fact.

    Ok here your whole Brock has this massive ego thing is based of promotional interviews done “in character” and strap lines given to him by promoters. I won’t deny he has a strong self believe in real life but every high level has that don’t they? From what I read everyone who he has trained with said he is a clean slate who listens to everything they teach no matter it was MMA, Pro Wrestling, American Football or Amateur Wrestling and all his ex-workers seem to rooting for him tonight’s as they did in previous fights. When he was in WWE I never heard any backstage gossip that Brock an ego.

    No, again you fail to realise what I mean. I can't realize where I insulted you.

    Also, I'm not basing Lesnars big ego on a scripted character. Throughout his WWE lawsuit he trashtalked about WWE and saying how it was a loss for them of such a huge and talented wrestler.

    He also went on to say how McMahon made a big mistake by dropping him. Also his football career and his press conference with his breif stint in NJPW which was not scripted, he also says how happy he was to grach NJPW with such a talented athelet.

    Oh yeah, and lets not forget the whole "Can you see me now!?" clearly directed at McMahon at the end of his victorious UFC debut.

    Hi is bigheaded, and has an ego the size of Russia and even though he is a talented powerhouse wrestler and MMA he is still overrated to an extent.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    vflhp wrote: »
    No, again you fail to realise what I mean. I can't realize where I insulted you.

    Then what was this then?
    vflhp wrote: »
    Well, I can agree with you. While you may have a problem talking about pro wrestling and MMA to a person with more knowledge, I am fully capable of discussing it with people that have a lower knowledge. This is why I have been tolerating this discussion for four pages. (Did you notice how I learned to quote?).
    vflhp wrote: »
    Also, I'm not basing Lesnars big ego on a scripted character. Throughout his WWE lawsuit he trashtalked about WWE and saying how it was a loss for them of such a huge and talented wrestler.

    He also went on to say how McMahon made a big mistake by dropping him.

    No you are right people should talk themselves down during a lawsuit to increase their bargaining power. :rolleyes: Anyway it was loss for WWE just look at business fell on the Smackdown side of things when he left.
    vflhp wrote: »
    Also his football career and his press conference with his breif stint in NJPW which was not scripted, he also says how happy he was to grach NJPW with such a talented athelet.

    You know what a press conference is meant to do right? Not only that but he is actually putting New Japan over as a company to go work for with that statement.
    vflhp wrote: »
    Oh yeah, and lets not forget the whole "Can you see me now!?" clearly directed at McMahon at the end of his victorious UFC debut. .

    Clearly?
    vflhp wrote: »
    Hi is bigheaded, and has an ego the size of Russia and even though he is a talented powerhouse wrestler and MMA he is still overrated to an extent.

    Once again you skipped over my previous post in addition to confusing the “character” and actual person.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    Then what was this then?
    That was not an insult, it was a fact and comparison of out knowledge, and from my short experience discussing MMA with you. As you have already said, this is a discussion forum and I have simply posted my early impressions and I could be wrong. Not intended as an insult at all.
    No you are right people should talk themselves down during a lawsuit to increase there bargaining power. rolleyes.gif Anyway it was loss for WWE just look at business fell on the Smackdown side of things when he left.
    You are COMPLETELY wrong there. During court proceedings the subjects are not meant to badmouth each other in or out of court. They are not supposed to talk about each other at all outside court! It was a miracle that Lesnar got away with that.
    You know what a press conference is meant to do right? Not only that but he is actually putting New Japan over as a company to go work for with that statement.
    A press conference it to promote the new talent, not let him have cheap shots at his previous employer. He further embarrassed himself by proving he was bitter about his abrupt departing from the biggest Pro Wrestling companies on the planet.
    Clearly?
    Yes, he was clearly basing that comment at WWE. Unless you can supply another person/company that could have been directed at, I would love to hear and consider it.
    Once again you skipped over my previous post in addition to confusing the “character” and actual person.
    No, your skipping my posts. I have not said it was his character. I said the personality his character had was brought to reality after he left. He was the top Pro Wrestler in the world at one stage (championship wise).

    Lesnar is one of those people who are way over their head when it comes to their popularity. He has a bad attitude and a bad personality which has crossed over from storylining to reality.


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