The Sub 3 Support Thread

ooter

RunForestRun wrote: »

I wouldn't say you're deluding yourself ooter, your training has been consistent for months so that should mean that all your race times will drop with proper training.

the best thing you could do now would be to flat out race a 5 or 10k, see where you are, then plan accordingly. If the training goes well and you can run a 1:23-24 half, you could then put yourself in with a good shot at sub3..

just one small note of caution but, the marathon time from last year is quite weak in comparison to the 10m and half, was the marathon very challenging or did you go very conservative? I know its easy to advise people not to get too hung up on times also, but it must be said. You're fairly new to marathoning, enjoy your training and racing and the times will follow.

went with the 3:20 pacers and if i'd stayed with them i reckon i would've went sub 3:20 but between 3 and 4 miles i kicked on and was running consistent 7:30/miles and feeling good till mile 20 and then the wheels fell off.this time last year the furthest i'd ever ran was 10k and the biggest weekly mileage i ever did was 15.
thanks for the reply btw RFR.

dublin runner

ooter wrote: »

planning on doing DCM this october,it'll be only my 2nd marathon having made my debut in DCM last year,3:25 off the back of the hh novice plan.
my pb's for 5k (18:40),10k (38:20),10 mile (63:30) and HM (86:55).
they were all achieved last year, i'm doing the clontarf half next month and hoping to go at least sub 85,if not better
i've ran 30+ miles a week fairly solidly over the last 6 months (ran 40 miles this week) and am starting the p+d 40-55 mile plan in a couple of weeks,am i deluding myself in to thinking that a sub 3 hour marathon is possible?
to be honest i'd be happy with a sub 3:15 and a gfa for london 2016 but i'd really love to go sub 3 hour.

Most definitely. I think your first marathon time isn't very important. The marathon is different to all other races in my opinion. It's a distance/experience that is very hard to replicate in training. You are much better for the experience. I know it's hard to get your head around but a 26min improvement is very doable, people can get too caught up and almost convince themselves it's not possible. I ran my first marathon after taking up running that year running DCM 12 in 3.46. In 2013 I ran 2.58 after someone convinced me that it was possible and to just go for it! I am nothing special.

Build the miles, there is still loads of time. Hitting a good time in July helps but it's how you are running in September and October that counts. If you can get your HM time down to around 1.24 you are well on course. Don't get too caught up in hitting targets (just yet!)

davedanon

Age has a lot to do with it, imo. Anyone under the age of 35 should be able to train up to a sub-3 marathon, I reckon.

ooter

dublin runner wrote: »

Most definitely. I think your first marathon time isn't very important. The marathon is different to all other races in my opinion. It's a distance/experience that is very hard to replicate in training. You are much better for the experience. I know it's hard to get your head around but a 26min improvement is very doable, people can get too caught up and almost convince themselves it's not possible. I ran my first marathon after taking up running that year running DCM 12 in 3.46. In 2013 I ran 2.58 after someone convinced me that it was possible and to just go for it! I am nothing special.

Build the miles, there is still loads of time. Hitting a good time in July helps but it's how you are running in September and October that counts. If you can get your HM time down to around 1.24 you are well on course. Don't get too caught up in hitting targets (just yet!)

jesus well done dr,that's brilliant.
i'm going to train with sub 3 hr in mind,the toughest long run of the program is 18 miles with 14 at MP,5 weeks out from the race and i know i'm capable of that so i'll just see how i go.
worst case scenario i'll be in great shape for sub 3:15.:)

Krusty_Clown

davedanon wrote: »

Age has a lot to do with it, imo. Anyone under the age of 35 should be able to train up to a sub-3 marathon, I reckon.

Age is just an excuse for those who aren't prepared to put in the work.

dublin runner

ooter wrote: »

jesus well done dr,that's brilliant.
i'm going to train with sub 3 hr in mind,the toughest long run of the program is 18 miles with 14 at MP,5 weeks out from the race and i know i'm capable of that so i'll just see how i go.
worst case scenario i'll be in great shape for sub 3:15.:)

What you could do is use a Kilomarathon for the MP miles. That's my plan this year. Don't forget by that stage it won't sound so intimidating. You'll be a lot stronger by the time that session rolls in. Not sure where you live but the Moone Kilomarathon is on Sept. 27th for example.

davedanon

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Age is just an excuse for those who aren't prepared to put in the work.

That wasn't quite what I meant, but in my own case at 51 and hoping to get down to sub-3.15 in Dublin, I genuinely don't know if I'm physically capable of running 2.59 - I think that's just realism, as opposed to making excuses.

dublin runner

davedanon wrote: »

That wasn't quite what I meant, but in my own case at 51 and hoping to get down to sub-3.15 in Dublin, I genuinely don't know if I'm physically capable of running 2.59 - I think that's just realism, as opposed to making excuses.

Well there's only one way of finding out How do you think your age would possibly hamper an attempt at sub 3? Interested to hear.

ooter

Never heard of a kilomarathon before,ye learn something new every day. :-)

davedanon

Ok, well, first off, I would dearly love to break 3 hours. I've been chipping away at my times since 2009, and 7 marathons later, 3.47 has come down to 3.17 - Everyone has a limit though, don't they? Also, if age has nothing to do with it, how come there are age-related tables? I'm not trying to dismiss the notion altogether, but at this stage, I'm not knocking off huge chunks of time anymore, like when I went from 3.47 to 3.26 between '09 and '10. The increments are smaller. If everything goes really well in October, I might get down to 3.10/3.12 - at that vantage point, 3 hours is starting to come into view, but it's still on the horizon, really. I really hope I'll be posting up a 2.59 on the Best of 201something thread, but
I know plenty of good runners, better than me, that never made it.

TFBubendorfer

davedanon wrote: »

Age has a lot to do with it, imo. Anyone under the age of 35 should be able to train up to a sub-3 marathon, I reckon.

Sh*te excuse. I only started running at that age! It didn't stop me from running sub-3 years later.

Krusty_Clown

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Sh*te excuse. I only started running at that age! It didn't stop me from running sub-3 years later.

+1. I started running at 36. I know that I took your comment slightly out of context Dave, but it was a nod in the direction that sub-3 is for younger guys (sub 35), which in the context of this thread is detrimental nonsense. Sure, it gets harder as you get older, but that doesn't mean it's only for under 35s. I'm closer to M45 than I am to M40, and by the end of the year, I hope to be closer to 2:30 than 2:35.

ecoli

Have to agree with the lads here, I have seen (and coached) lads well beyond their 30s to sub 3 for the first time despite a few years of training under their belts. There is a limit to the level you can improve you are right but to be honest with life commitments, the majority of us will rarely train consistently at the level required to max out our potential so there is always room for improvement, does it get harder yes, but not impossible.

theboyblunder

davedanon wrote: »

Age has a lot to do with it, imo. Anyone under the age of 35 should be able to train up to a sub-3 marathon, I reckon.

Its also well established that sagitarians are at a serious disadvantage.

Id have a look at Krusty_Clowns training log, maybe skip the 'ultra year' and every third beer-related post , and theres a pretty good roadmap there for you. I presume at 51 if you have kids that they dont interfere with your sleep, so unshackle yourself from excuses and go out and see how close you can get after proper training.

menoscemo

theboyblunder wrote: »

Its also well established that sagitarians are at a serious disadvantage.

Id have a look at Krusty_Clowns training log, maybe skip the 'ultra year' and every third beer-related post , and theres a pretty good roadmap there for you. I presume at 51 if you have kids that they dont interfere with your sleep, so unshackle yourself from excuses and go out and see how close you can get after proper training.

While I would like to agree with your post, Tallaght Runners like Dave shouldn't be taking advice from Sisters Pearse :pac:

ecoli

menoscemo wrote: »

While I would like to agree with your post, Tallaght Runners like Dave shouldn't be taking advice from Sisters Pearse :pac:

Feck sake we're mulitplying didn't even know that's who it was

davedanon

I was not making excuses.

I am already doing 'proper training'.

I was not making excuses. Yes, I'm saying it twice.

Who are you, ecoli?

Feck off, the rest of you.

That is all.

I can't do it, but 'INSERT SMILEY HERE' to show I'm not actually getting worked up, as you do on the toneless internets.

ecoli

davedanon wrote: »

Who are you, ecoli?

Probably don't see me too much on the track but you can usually find me by the treatment table in the club (should probably give it away )

RayCun

ecoli wrote: »

Feck sake we're mulitplying didn't even know that's who it was

I think its sweet the way in smaller clubs all the members expect to know each other

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

I think its sweet the way in smaller clubs all the members expect to know each other

Quality over quantity We don't hold out C25k runners to ransom with membership

dublin runner

ooter wrote: »

Never heard of a kilomarathon before,ye learn something new every day. :-)

For example, you could do the 16 @MP or use the first and last mile as warm-up and do 14@ MP. This way you could replicate marathon race conditions. Closed roads, drink stations and pre-race nerves Definitely worth considering. There are a few now I think.

RayCun

ecoli wrote: »

Quality over quantity We don't hold out C25k runners to ransom with membership

I'm not going to ask someone for a race time before taking their money welcoming them in as full members of the club

ecoli

dublin runner wrote: »

For example, you could do the 16 @MP or use the first and last mile as warm-up and do 14@ MP. This way you could replicate marathon race conditions. Closed roads, drink stations and pre-race nerves Definitely worth considering. There are a few now I think.

Kilcock do a great one around 4-5 weeks out from DCM which is well worth considering, definitely one I have marked for it (even has its own Heart Break hill which makes Dublin's seem like a cake walk)

davedanon

Right, ecoli. I have used The Force to work out who you are.

ooter

ecoli wrote: »

Kilcock do a great one around 4-5 weeks out from DCM which is well worth considering, definitely one I have marked for it (even has its own Heart Break hill which makes Dublin's seem like a cake walk)

Just checked there and it was 3 weeks out from DCM last year.
Cheers,will keep my eyes out for that one.

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

Kilcock do a great one around 4-5 weeks out from DCM which is well worth considering, definitely one I have marked for it (even has its own Heart Break hill which makes Dublin's seem like a cake walk)

Cool. I'll have a look at this. Usually do the Athlone 3/4 but looking for a change. It's a great race but I don't think 19 miles plus at MP did me any good last year. Is the hill that bad??!

ecoli

dublin runner wrote: »

Cool. I'll have a look at this. Usually do the Athlone 3/4 but looking for a change. It's a great race but I don't think 19 miles plus at MP did me any good last year. Is the hill that bad??!

After the Barrow you will be grand :P. You make the time back straight away to so its not that bad

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

After the Barrow you will be grand :P. You make the time back straight away to so its not that bad

You had to go there, didn't you?! By God I will never forget it. I'd love to run up it again and see is it really as bad as remembered.

ecoli

dublin runner wrote: »

You had to go there, didn't you?! By God I will never forget it. I'd love to run up it again and see is it really as bad as remembered.

Trust me it was, remember neither of us were racing that and we still found it that bad

rom

davedanon wrote: »

Ok, well, first off, I would dearly love to break 3 hours. I've been chipping away at my times since 2009, and 7 marathons later, 3.47 has come down to 3.17 - Everyone has a limit though, don't they? Also, if age has nothing to do with it, how come there are age-related tables? I'm not trying to dismiss the notion altogether, but at this stage, I'm not knocking off huge chunks of time anymore, like when I went from 3.47 to 3.26 between '09 and '10. The increments are smaller. If everything goes really well in October, I might get down to 3.10/3.12 - at that vantage point, 3 hours is starting to come into view, but it's still on the horizon, really. I really hope I'll be posting up a 2.59 on the Best of 201something thread, but
I know plenty of good runners, better than me, that never made it.

"I would dearly love to" reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yenzdq5g6o

If you don't believe that you can do it then you never will. I know 100% in my mind that I can do a much better time than a sub 3 so it's only a matter of making it happen.

This inner believe is why people who are good at other sport can adopt as they expect to be the best and put themselves into the best position to be.

If you are only making small increments then you need to access every aspect of your training. It doesn't need to be hard but it does need to be thought out.