Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

The_Conductor

Does anyone know if there is there any update on the extension of the shelflife for Tamiflu (from 5 to 7 years- obviously this would assist with supplies)?

Turtwig

smccarrick wrote: »

Who is expecting this- and on what basis are they making their assumptions? This seems to be totally hysterical and without any basis in hard science? Do you have any source for this?

Dustin Hoffman

sam34

chuchu, we cannot give advice on personal medical situations/problems here, sorry.

Chuchu

I was just editing that post, I am aware you do not give personal medical advice, we have both seen a doc, the question really relates to mild symptoms in high cat people and transmission. Would have liked to know a bit more but never mind.

samson09

I've read that the HSE has signed advance purchasing agreements with Baxter Healthcare and GlaxoSmithKline worth about E80 million for the supply of H1N1 vaccines and has agreed to purchase 7.7 million doses.

If any of the doctors here could answer my questions about this, it would be very much appreciated.

(1) Have we received guarantees from Baxter that the vaccines are safe?
(2) If people are injured by the vaccine, will they be entitled to sue Baxter?
(3) Why are we dealing with a pharmaceutical company that is currently being investigated by Austrian police? (the current case is investigating how 72 kilos of vaccine material could have been contaminated by live bird flu virus supplied by WHO in Baxter’s biomedical facilities in Orth an der Donau, and sent to 16 labs in four countries).
(4) Does anyone know the specific type of adjuvants that will be in the vaccines that the Irish population will be receiving?

The reason I ask such questions is that the Czech republic has recently ended talks with Baxter after the pharmaceutical company couldn't guarantee the vaccines would be safe and also added they would not be held responsible for any injuries caused by the vaccine.

Thank you.

nesf

samson09 wrote: »

I've read that the HSE has signed advance purchasing agreements with Baxter Healthcare and GlaxoSmithKline worth about E80 million for the supply of H1N1 vaccines and has agreed to purchase 7.7 million doses.

If any of the doctors here could answer my questions about this, it would be very much appreciated.

(1) Have we received guarantees from Baxter that the vaccines are safe?
(2) If people are injured by the vaccine, will they be entitled to sue Baxter?
(3) Why are we dealing with a pharmaceutical company that is currently being investigated by Austrian police? (the current case is investigating how 72 kilos of vaccine material could have been contaminated by live bird flu virus supplied by WHO in Baxter’s biomedical facilities in Orth an der Donau, and sent to 16 labs in four countries).
(4) Does anyone know the specific type of adjuvants that will be in the vaccines that the Irish population will be receiving?

The reason I ask such questions is that the Czech republic has recently ended talks with Baxter after the pharmaceutical company couldn't guarantee the vaccines would be safe and also added they would not be held responsible for any injuries caused by the vaccine.

Thank you.

One would imagine that the HSE are guaranteeing access to the vaccine in case it works rather than committing to treating people with it at this stage.

forkassed

I thought this article was a bit worrying...


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hOEsYPXdeHUNW7daUzdbwGZEm3dg

The new deaths came as health officials raised the alarm about a strain of swine flu that is resistant to the Tamiflu treatment.

Maria Teresa Cerqueira, head of the Pan-American Health Organization office in La Jolla, California, said a Tamiflu-resistant mutation of the virus had been found around the US-Mexico border in El Paso and close to McAllen, Texas.

Experts had gathered in La Jolla, California, on Monday to discuss responses to the outbreak, and warned that resistant strains were likely emerging because of overuse of antivirals like Tamiflu.

"In the United States Tamiflu is sold with a prescription, but in Mexico and Canada it is sold freely and taken at the first sneeze. Then, when it is really needed, it doesn't work," said Cerqueira.

Cases of swine flu that were resistant to the anti-viral medicine have now been found in the United States, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong and Japan.

A Taiwanese biotech company on Tuesday started mass production of a swine flu vaccine before even completing clinical trials, in a bid to get a jump before the start of the winter flu season.

Adimmune Corp, the island's only human vaccine manufacturer, said it was starting production at its plant in central Taichung.

The company is due to deliver five million doses of the vaccine before the end of October, according to the purchase contract it has signed with the government, said deputy CEO and president Ignatius Wei.

A sign of the burgeoning demand for such a drug, Brazil said Tuesday it had ordered 18 million doses of swine flu vaccine this year and was considering buying another 15 million next year.

tallaght01

There have been occasional sporadic mutations of swine flu. But no evidence of a selective pressure-type evolutionary change in the organism, so I'm not so worried about systemic resistance just yet. Plus the vaccine will mean we won't have such a reliance on anti-viral drugs.

samson09

nesf wrote: »

One would imagine that the HSE are guaranteeing access to the vaccine in case it works rather than committing to treating people with it at this stage.

That may very well be the case but it still doesnt answer any of the questions I asked in my original post.

nesf

samson09 wrote: »

That may very well be the case but it still doesnt answer any of the questions I asked in my original post.

Indeed, but the questions in your post kind of depend on the HSE using the vaccine. Demanding guarantees of safety for a drug not even existent yet in any large quantities is a bit pointless.

samson09

nesf wrote: »

Indeed, but the questions in your post kind of depend on the HSE using the vaccine. Demanding guarantees of safety for a drug not even existent yet in any large quantities is a bit pointless.

Thanks for your opinion on the first question. How about 2, 3 and 4?

nesf

samson09 wrote: »

Thanks for your opinion on the first question. How about 2, 3 and 4?

2. I'm not a legal expert.
3. Are there alternative producers?
4. Is this information public knowledge yet?

whatawaster

tallaght01 wrote: »

Plus the vaccine will mean we won't have such a reliance on anti-viral drugs.

how confident would you be that the vaccine program will be successful?

tallaght01

whatawaster wrote: »

how confident would you be that the vaccine program will be successful?

It should be as successful as herd immunity allows. So, the more people get vaccinated, the more successful it's likely to be.

skelliser

first commercial vaccine ready

The company which is supplying Ireland with its swine flu vaccine has said the first batch of the medication is ready for distribution.

Baxter International has announced that the vaccine, called Celvapan, has been tested and cleared for use.

The firm has contracts to supply five countries with the medication and is now in touch with national health authorities to plan distribution.

The Irish Government has ordered more than 7.5 million doses and is planning to offer vaccination to the entire population in the autumn.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/irish-swine-flu-jabs-ready-14444355.html

The_Conductor

Just out of curiousity- why do we need 7.5 million vaccinations- when our population is 4.5 million?

Is there something I'm missing?

Turtwig

smccarrick wrote: »

Just out of curiousity- why do we need 7.5 million vaccinations- when our population is 4.5 million?

Is there something I'm missing?

Two - three doses per person/child, just guessing.

skelliser

ya iirc its two jabs ten days apart for each person

sam34

samson09- there is no place on a scientific discussion forum for insinuations such as the one you have made.

any more of that here and you will be banned - again.

take it to conspiracy theories, if you wish

samson09

sam34 wrote: »

samson09- there is no place on a scientific discussion forum for insinuations such as the one you have made.

any more of that here and you will be banned - again.

take it to conspiracy theories, if you wish

What insinuations are you talking about sam?

My questions have no place in conspiracy theories. Anything I have stated is based on facts not opinions. I was looking for answers to reasonable questions from a medical professional. So far no one has attempted to answer them, bar nesf who doesnt sound like a doctor.

Also, why did you delete one of my posts? Anything I say is based on fact and can be backed up if necessary.

samson09

skelliser wrote: »

first commercial vaccine ready

The company which is supplying Ireland with its swine flu vaccine has said the first batch of the medication is ready for distribution.

Baxter International has announced that the vaccine, called Celvapan, has been tested and cleared for use.

The firm has contracts to supply five countries with the medication and is now in touch with national health authorities to plan distribution.

The Irish Government has ordered more than 7.5 million doses and is planning to offer vaccination to the entire population in the autumn.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/irish-swine-flu-jabs-ready-14444355.html

"Baxter International has announced that the vaccine, called Celvapan, has been tested and cleared for use".

How can this vaccine be ready for use already? What guarantees do we have about its safety? Where are the results of its clinical trials? Are adjuvants being used in the vaccines? Did clinical trials look at vaccines with or without adjuvants? How long did the trials last? (Obviously not long enough to have any idea about the long term side effects that people may be landed with). How long are vaccines normally tested for?

Are we supposed to just assume that everything is ok here? Where's the evidence this vaccine is safe? <conspiracy theories stuff edited out>

Too many questions, not enough answers.

DrIndy

Samson09 - banned for a week - don't argue with a moderator in a thread.

CapedCrusader

I'm convinved that, for me, the risks of a hastily produced vaccine amidst widespread media hysteria far outweigh the risks posed by the disease itself.

However, what about my pregnant wife? What are the specific risks to a pregnant woman? That she will lose her baby? That she will sufer a more severe form of the illness?

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any SUPPORTED information about the MAGNITUDE of the risk to PREGNANT women.

Sorry for the caps, but I really would appreciate solid information to make an informed decision re taking the vaccine.

I have been searching for an article I read but can't find the link for the life of me... but I read that during the last flu pandemic where people were vaccinated en masse... more peope sufferred from the vaccine than from the disease... including people that were left as paraplegics as a result of the vaccine.

Would be greateful for solid info, if possible, rather than opinions.

Many thanks

Turtwig

CapedCrusader wrote: »

I'm convinved that, for me, the risks of a hastily product vaccine amidst widespread media hysteria far outweight the risks posed by the disease itself.

However, what about my pregnant wife? What are the specific risks to a pregnant woman? That she will lose her baby? That she will sufer a more severe form of the illness?

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any SUPPORTED information about the MAGNITUDE of the risk to PREGNANT women.

Sorry for the caps, but I really would appreciate solid information to make an informed decision re taking the vaccine.

I have been searching for an article I read but can't find the link for the life of me... but I read that during the last flu pandemic where people were vaccinated en masse... more peope sufferred from the vaccine than from the disease... including people that were left as paraplegics as a result of the vaccine.

Would be greateful for solid info, if possible, rather than opinions.

Many thanks

The trouble with any sort of threat to humanity always has been that things get blown out to irrational proportions.

I'm not a doctor, so take this advice with a pinch of salt, or ignore if you want.
The vaccine will be most effective if the entire populations takes it.
Try to avoid looking for articles on the mainstream media, some of them can be terribly misleading. If you have the patience then reading the peer reviewed journals are the way to go.(CDC is very good)

With regard to pregancy, it seems that the flu has a greater chance of being more severe in pregnant women based on the evidence of the previous flu pandemics.

CDC wrote:

Many pregnant women will go on to have a typical course of uncomplicated influenza. However, for some pregnant women, illness might progress rapidly, and might be complicated by secondary bacterial infections including pneumonia. Fetal distress associated with severe maternal illness can occur. Case reports of adverse pregnancy outcomes and maternal deaths have been associated with severe illness

Also, just because it was hasty, doesn't necessarily mean it is unsafe.

CapedCrusader

Thanks for the response Malty.

Malty_T wrote: »

Also, just because it was hasty, doesn't necessarily mean it is unsafe.

No, but it does greatly increase the risk that it is.

Dr Galen

First death in Ireland as a result of swine flu. Patient appears to have had some serious underlying medical issues, so was already in the higher risk group. In all honesty, hard as it may be to say, this lady was probably at a risk with "normal" flu, never mind swine flu. Good to see, Irish media reporting the facs behind this in an appropriate manner and not sensationalising it

From rte.ie

Woman dies from swine flu at Tallaght Hospital
watch Friday, 7 August 2009 22:14

A young woman from the west of Ireland has died from human swine flu at Tallaght Hospital in Dublin.

She is the first person to die from the H1N1 virus here since the first cases emerged in this country in May.

Department of Health officials said this evening that the woman had an underlying medical condition.
Advertisement

Her family has asked for privacy.

In a statement this evening, Tallaght Hospital said in order to protect the confidentiality and privacy of the family no personal details will be made available.

The hospital says that all national protocols have been followed in regards to the matter.

The statement went on to say that the patient has been in an individual room within the hospital from the time she was admitted and the hospital's Influenza Pandemic Flu Committee has put in place 'all necessary measures to ensure both the safety of other patients and staff within the Hospital'.

jc2008

The students of an Irish Language College (the "Gaeltacht") have all been sent home in Donegal after six students got swine flu, and 5 more show signs of having swine flu.

I'm going to the Gaeltacht Tomorrow for two weeks, in Mayo. Should I be worried? I really don't want the expensive trip cut short, and most importantly I don't want to get swine flu.

Dr Galen

only you really can make that decision dude.

All i can say is that if it was me, I'd be going. Mayo and Donegal being 2 different places and the fact that the girl in the Spar shop 15 minutes ago was sneezy and sniffly and could well have had swine flu. If your going to get it, your just as likely it seems to pick it up anywhere.

bleg

Anybody have any concerns over the vaccine? Not the conspiracy theory stuff but the way it is being rushed through so quickly. I was talking to the hospital pharmacist locally and she said she wouldn't take it. Anybody have any thoughts? I haven't read all this thread so if this has been answered already can you point out the post to me?

jc2008

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

only you really can make that decision dude.

All i can say is that if it was me, I'd be going. Mayo and Donegal being 2 different places and the fact that the girl in the Spar shop 15 minutes ago was sneezy and sniffly and could well have had swine flu. If your going to get it, your just as likely it seems to pick it up anywhere.

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I agree with you.

It's funny - before this I never thought much of swine flu as I always shook it off and said, "Sure it's not much worse than normal flu" but I was worried about seeing as it happened to students in the Gaeltacht, just like I was going to be (it will be my 3rd year there).

Do the normal preventative measures apply for swine flu? (e.g washing hands often, avoiding unnecessary contact such as shaking hands etc.)