Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

The_Conductor

Just heard someone from the INTO being interviewed on RTE 1 radio. She is demanding that teachers be prioritised above all other groups when vaccines become available, and unless a commitment to this is obtained from the Minister that they cannot guarantee staffing for the new school year due to commence in 2-3 weeks time.

Wtf?

Bicycle

tallaght01 wrote: »

And unfortunately, the influence of media madness is very far reaching. Much more so that we'd like to admit, I reckon.

Agreed.

I have a 13 year old here with me at the moment getting incredibly anxious because she's just read on teletext that Britain may use mass graves in a worst case scenario.

I can't stop her reading the news, I'm not going to fudge things, but there has to be some sort of happy medium in terms of reportage.

Today's Indo has another balanced article, which I will get her to read later.

SMcCarrick - this is obviously posturing by the INTO. They've had all summer to ruminate on swine flu, and with only 10 days to go, they suddenly wake up to the fact that its here and it won't go away.

The Indo are also suggesting that 25% of parents want the start of the school term delayed because of the outbreak.

I'm the parent of an asthmatic and I'd like to be given the option of teaching my child at home - without having to go through extensive red tape - until I can be reassured.

My post may appear confused - because I am confused about the whole issue

skelliser

I reckon by the 3/4 week in september due to school year this will begin to take off.

in my personal "unscientific" opinion they should keep the schools closed until at least the third week in september. This will give us enough time to be ready for the vaccine in late september/early october.
Take those 3 weeks now to avoid the panic and anxiety that will imo be created if schools go back on the 1st september.

Steven_in_Cork

OMG,

you guys should stop believing everything they tell you in the media.

Swine-Flu is absolutely over-rated.

The Vaccine is UNTESTED and you want that to inject it into our kids/friends etc?

The pharma's can not be held responsible for it due to state immunity given.
Its a big business thats it.

In the 70's more people died of the swine flu vaccine than people of the virus itself, some got lucky and "only" got brain and nerve diseases.

Well, go on so and play guniea pig for the pharma industry.

Why does no one question it? Or wants even ask where does it come from?

Just google it and see for your self, i wouldnt trust my telly/radio for issues like this.

I hope common sense prevails......

tallaght01

So, in 1976, 40 million people were vaccinated against swine flu in the states.

500 people got guillain barre syndrome (The DEADLY nerve disease people are talking about).

25 died from it.

Now that included people who would have gotten GBS anyway. The studies have shown an increase in GBS within that population of about 1 case per million people extra than if the population had no vaccine.

Google doesn't tell you that, butt he independent scientific literature does.

Now that was 1976. I wasn't even born then, but I'm willing to bet that the cases of GBS who died then wouldn't die now.

I've seen a few cases of GBS in my time. I've never seen anyone who didn't come in with it, and leave a few days later. The paralysis is almost always transient. I don't have an patients in outpatients etc who have been left permanently damaged by GBS.

It's also important to know that GBS is, for some reason, associated with the normal flu vaccine. Roughly one in 10,000 people who get the normal flu vaccine get GBS. Nearly all of them make a full recovery.

As far as the vaccine being "untested", well that's more disinformation...to an extent. The vaccine is the same as the normal flu vaccine that we get every year. Each year they add different strains in. The strain they'll add now is the swine flu strain. So, lots of countries aren't regarding it as a "new" vaccine, which is fair enough, and are willing to give it out early. Aus is waiting until there is some decent data before they start mass vaccination. I know it's being tested because I'm one of the people testing it.

It's been undergoing trials for the last month or so.

spurious

Every year in schools around the 3rd or 4th week of September, there is an increase in the numbers of staff absent as the lovely things kids bring back from their holidays start to spread through the school. It's almost always respiratory illnesses.

This happens every year. This year there will be the 'swine flu' to contend with too.

rkeane

Just got diagnosed with swine flu 2day, I'm wrecked with MS at the best of times...this ain't fun.

Oh well, at least this will result in less of my annoying nephews coming over

lolwut

Hmm , Im in a spot of trouble here
I have pretty bad asthma all my life, But i swore to myself i wouldn't get the vaccine because of my own believes that i wont go into because its for another thread

But i dunno , I mean it could hit me pretty hard since i have asthma
Maybe il just turn into a hermit

Dr Galen

Steven_in_Cork wrote: »

The Vaccine is UNTESTED and you want that to inject it into our kids/friends etc?

well thats just not true. It has been and is being tested right now. By reading other posts, plus the info I gave earlier in this thread it's apparent how this vaccine was made and the safety testing that it's already gone through.

The pharma's can not be held responsible for it due to state immunity given.
Its a big business thats it.

have you any sources for this? I've heard nothing but rumours and scaremongering regarding companies being given an immunity. No concrete facts.

In the 70's more people died of the swine flu vaccine than people of the virus itself, some got lucky and "only" got brain and nerve diseases.

any figures to back this up?

Why does no one question it? Or wants even ask where does it come from?

i've asked the questions myself, and believe I provided some of the answers above, along with the info that other posters have put forward

Just google it and see for your self, i wouldnt trust my telly/radio for issues like this.

i did, and found stuff from the New England Journal of Medicine. What did you find?

I hope common sense prevails......

i agree

sam34

Steven_in_Cork wrote: »

Just google it and see for your self, i wouldnt trust my telly/radio for issues like this.

others have dealt with other aspects of your post,but i thought i'd highlight the above sentence.

anyone, any misinformed, uneducated, biased, prejudiced, sceptical, paranoid, scare-mongering, trollish person, can post something on the internet that will turn up on a google search.

that does not mean it is accurate.

have a look at this thread in its entirity to see that misinformation and misperception that is out there.

why do you think google, with all the ranodm stuff, is any better a source than the national news?

i'm not saying the news should be taken as gospel, far from it.

but i wouldnt make decisions regarding my health based on what a google search turned up.

tallaght01

sam34 wrote: »

others have dealt with other aspects of your post,but i thought i'd highlight the above sentence.

anyone, any misinformed, uneducated, biased, prejudiced, sceptical, paranoid, scare-mongering, trollish person, can post something on the internet that will turn up on a google search.

that does not mean it is accurate.

have a look at this thread in its entirity to see that misinformation and misperception that is out there.

why do you think google, with all the ranodm stuff, is any better a source than the national news?

i'm not saying the news should be taken as gospel, far from it.

but i wouldnt make decisions regarding my health based on what a google search turned up.

I just googled "swine flu vaccine side effects" and the top 3 results were:

http://sacredessence.com.au/blog/swine-flu-the-facts/ which is basically a scaremongering blog, with the usual conspiracy stuff about big pharma.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/swineflu/a/409_myths_facts.htm Not bad ut a few inaccuracies about face mask protection.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026866_swine_flu_flu_vaccine_swine_flu_vaccine.html This is from naturalnews.com, the favoured crazy website of this forum. In this link they are boasting about finding a leaked memo about guillain barre syndrome....the most commonly discussed side effect of the 1976 vaccine.

So nothing there that I'd base my healthcare decisions on. Though they all look pretty authoritative.

Miss Lockhart

tallaght01 wrote: »

The question is no that relevant. About 20% of deaths are in people with no underlying health probs. About 2/3 deaths globally (probably more in developed countries) from swine flu are in people with underlying health probs.

Ireland will be similar, unless the vaccine has a decent uptake.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of deaths attributed to "normal" seasonal flu annualy are in people with no underlying health problems - particularly those under the age of 65. Just for comparison.

Are these figures available somewhere or do you or any of the other well informed posters here have a rough idea?

Thanks

Turtwig

Steven_in_Cork wrote: »

Just google it and see for your self, i wouldnt trust my telly/radio for issues like this.
.

'Google' says that the earth is flat, and swine flu is evidence of the Mayan Calendar EOW prediction being correct. Frankly, I'm gonna trust my tv a little more on this one - CDC and the guy's (and gals) on boards all the way!

Judgement Day

Am I alone in thinking that the advice from the HSE being trotted out in the media about protecting yourself from Swine Flu by using a hankie and washing your hands is about as useful as the instructions in the old goverment publication advising what to do in event that the A-bomb was dropped on Ireland - 'If you're caught out in the open turn your back to the blast.'

I prefer the alternative - put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

nesf

Judgement Day wrote: »

Am I alone in thinking that the advice from the HSE being trotted out in the media about protecting yourself from Swine Flu by using a hankie and washing your hands is about as useful as the instructions in the old goverment publication advising what to do in event that the A-bomb was dropped on Ireland - 'If you're caught out in the open turn your back to the blast.'

I prefer the alternative - put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

It's more about protecting other people from whatever virus you get and reminding people to practice good hygiene can make a difference. It seems silly but you'd be surprised how many people who have some kind of virus (and know it!) would walk around without carrying any tissues or anything.

Judgement Day

nesf wrote: »

It's more about protecting other people from whatever virus you get and reminding people to practice good hygiene can make a difference. It seems silly but you'd be surprised how many people who have some kind of virus (and know it!) would walk around without carrying any tissues or anything.

I was only kidding but when you look at this stuff about hand washing after using the toilet I think we are wasting our time. My experience in Irish pubs (male loos) would suggest that we are far worse than the US/UK surveys suggest.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/fewer-people-washing-their-hands-after-toilet-14259.html

nesf

Judgement Day wrote: »

I was only kidding but when you look at this stuff about hand washing after using the toilet I think we are wasting our time. My experience in Irish pubs (male loos) would suggest that we are far worse than the US/UK surveys suggest.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/fewer-people-washing-their-hands-after-toilet-14259.html

Self reported estimates will always over-estimate with something like this and if you want an idea of how many people wash their hands while drunk you can't rely on them even slightly.

HashSlinging

A friend of mine has had a new baby recently and their husband is going to be working in UCD for 6 weeks starting in September. They are very worried about being exposed to SF, and the effect it could have on the newborn baby and also the mum.

Are they being overzealously worried about SF or do they genuinely need to worry about it.

Amnesiac_ie

The HSE Public Health Department have commissioned a very informative TV advert to educate and reassure the public about the risks Swine Flu poses.

Bicycle

RTE Teletext and web are reporting this morning, that Turkeys in Chile have been found to have swine flu. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/swineflu.html

Is this the doomday scenario we've been warned about?

Is it possible that the swine flu will mutate with avian flu and create this apocolyptic scenario?

Or am I over analysing?

Turtwig

Bicycle wrote: »

RTE Teletext and web are reporting this morning, that Turkeys in Chile have been found to have swine flu. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0821/swineflu.html

Is this the doomday scenario we've been warned about?

Is it possible that the swine flu will mutate with avian flu and create this apocolyptic scenario?

Or am I over analysing?

It is always possible but frankly I'd be more worried about dying tomorrow by tripping in the shower.
I might be over optimistic here but isn't it also possilbe that swine flu could become the dominant flu in birds and therefore make the avian H5N1 redunant?

tallaght01

Malty_T wrote: »

I might be over optimistic here but isn't it also possilbe that swine flu could become the dominant flu in birds and therefore make the avian H5N1 redunant?

Interesting thought, there.

H5N1 is a bad ass virus, and if that spreads, then there could be real trouble. But many strains of influenza tend to co-exist together. I'm no vet, so not sure what the situation is in animals. But people have certainly been talking about H1N1 displacing seasonal flu this year, as there seems to be slightly less of it about.

tallaght01

more conspiracy theories stuff above deleted

sillymoo

Anyone know if med and nursing students will be among the first batch of heathcare staff for vaccination?

CathyMoran

also curious about pregnant women

norrie rugger

tallaght01 wrote: »

Just to address this bit that you added into your last post. Their was a recent case series in the NEJM, looking at a cohort of people who had been hospitalised with swine flu pneumonia and died.

About half of the people who died were previously healthy, as were half of the people who were hospitalised.

But, like I said previously, it's protection of the vulnerable groups that is the priority.

When it comes to Vaccines I often find that people are too self absorbed to understand the basic premise.

Vaccines are not meant to protect you (the healthy individual), they are meant to protect the collective (which includes the many "at risk" people)
The fact that it protects the healthy individual also is a benefit

El_Dangeroso

Has anyone in the medical community thought of the possibility of getting blood levels of vitamin D normalised as a way of boosting the immune system?

Excellent article in MedicalNewsToday.com:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/51913.php

I'm am on 10,000IU daily and haven't gotten so much as a sniffle all year. The evidence is mounting up.

Supercell

Is this the worst case scenario about to play out? - Doctors warn of severe form of swine flu

Doctors are reporting a severe form of swine flu that goes straight to the lungs, causing severe illness in healthy young people.

Anyone have any more information on this new strain? It sounds rather worrying to me.

tallaght01

Supercell wrote: »

Is this the worst case scenario about to play out? - Doctors warn of severe form of swine flu


Anyone have any more information on this new strain? It sounds rather worrying to me.

I don't think this is a new development at all. For the last several months, I've been saying that Ireland needs to seriously review it's ITU capacity, because a lot of hospitalised patients with HSI are ending up ventilated.

Turtwig

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't think this is a new development at all. For the last several months, I've been saying that Ireland needs to seriously review it's ITU capacity, because a lot of hospitalised patients with HSI are ending up ventilated.

Yeah I'm not sure how the media could even classify that as 'news' it's being known for months in the scientific media - newscientist, sciencedaily,sciam all reported before may iirc
And tallaght's being preaching it on boards with ages too:)

Seriously, how can they say it's news??