Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

skelliser

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

2 questions:
What "underlying health conditions" are being implicated with the 2 ICU patients?

according to rte news the slovakian man in his thirties has asthma and was complaining of breathing difficulties on friday so his friends rang a doctor. brought to hospital then.

On the diabetes front, i would image that acute Diarrhea, nausea and high temperatures would play havok with blood sugar levels but thats only my opinion

nesf

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I don't want "go to your doctor" parroted at me, considering I have already done so, and pay €100 to ask a question that probably isn't even medical advice. I'm familiar with the implications of the mods deciding that it can be construed as medical advice, and I will as ever go to my GP for advice and treatment if I do feel ill. Thanks!

In fairness to the mods here they are very reasonable when it comes to patients asking general questions relating to their conditions. Questions like "Why is X a risk factor for Y" are fundamentally different to "I have this green lump dangling out of one of my nostrils and think it might be cancer, is it?".

tallaght01

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I don't want "go to your doctor" parroted at me,

Thanks nesf. I think everything we've always done in terms of stopping people from seeking medical advice on here has been in their best interests. Allowing it would increase traffic here immeasurably.


But I see comments above and, even though I know the (theroetical) answer to the question, I couldn't be bothered typing it out.

lucernarian

That wasn't meant to be smart at all! I just was expecting the worst, and I see so many posters in Bio/Med & LTI saying "go to your GP" at any question, behaving as if they're mods.

Genuinely, I was mainly looking for information from a scientific perspective. In what way was I criticising the necessary and vital policy of "no medical advice here"??? I only asked that if it was, that I be told that and not "Go ask your doctor" by some wannabe mods.

The mods do a great job of enforcing that as best they can. Everyone jumping on the bandwagon is another matter. I sincerely apologise if I've rubbed Tallaght01 and DrIndy up the wrong way. No disrespect meant.

tallaght01

No worries dude.

Sorry if I took you up the wrong way. We've had some problematic stirrers lately. Thanks for the PM, too.

The only thing I'd say is that the other posters do get stuck in an d ask people to go to their doc rather than posting here. I don't think anyone would have said that to you. But we do appreciate the posters backing us up when people do come in and look for medical advice. I don't remember the last time it was said to a poster inappropriately.


Anyway, let's move on, and I'll try my best to answer your question in a while when I get a chance

DARK-KNIGHT

hi what are the main risk categories? am i correct in saying that its not a flu as such that it infact is a virus?

Slumlion

raycaulwell wrote: »

hi what are the main risk categories? am i correct in saying that its not a flu as such that it infact is a virus?

all flu's are a virus

DARK-KNIGHT

Slumlion wrote: »

all flu's are a virus

wasnt actually aware of that thanks!

my wife is heavily pregnant now and im quite worried for her and baby can someone in the know answer one question? how dangerous is this thing?

RonMexico

Kind of worried to hear that the guy in intensive care had asthma and supposedly mild asthma at that. I have had asthma all my life and I'm 26 now and still on a preventative inhaler. I very rarely show any symptoms of it though and have never had an asthma attack as such.

Due to go back working in college towards the end of September and I'm dreading it to be honest. I'll be working as a tutor in a cramped room with 20 students for 45 minutes twice a day, three days a week. I'll be out of there like a bullet once the day is over.

I think the media coverage of this flu outbreak is outrageous and irresponsible. There is so much conflicting coverage that I don't know what to make of it. Sky News and certain newspapers would have you believe that we are all going to die.

maninblack

Just skimmed through this thread.

Heading back to college at the end of August and am dreading the cramped buses at 7.30 in the mornings!

Whats the latest on the vaccine anyway? I'd very much like to get jabbed asap!

Last year there were notices up for mumps outbreaks and vaccines being available. I kept putting off looking into it for a few weeks and sure enough... ended up with mumps that lead to further complications. Don't want the same happening with the swine flu!!

Vorsprung

I'm on holidays at the minute and out of the loop, but just on the above:

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

please do some research before injecting yourself with a vaccine that has been rushed through the safety stages. I have done some research and this is what I've come up with:

1. Swine flu is normal flu - a mutation of the H1N1 virus of the sort that often occurs. Flu makes you feel ill. You should take medicine and rest. You will then get well again, unless you are very unlucky or have some complicating condition. It is best to avoid close contact with other people, as applies to a common cold.

It's a mutation involving viruses from (if I remember correctly) 3 species, which means that humans will not have been, in most cases, exposed to parts of those viruses. Not exactly normal flu

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

The mortality rate is significantly lower than that of normal flu and most victims suffer only a mild illness.

"Normal flu" has a similar, and not significantly lower, mortality rate to swine flu as far as I know. Can you source your figures please? Also, seasonal flu VERY VERY VERY RARELY puts previously healthy young people in ICU, swine flu would seem to be better at this.

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

Don't take my word for it - please research it yourself. you can start by clicking the link below

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1015

Just because it has Journal in its title, it doesn't make it unbiased.

sam34

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

Don't take my word for it - please research it yourself. you can start by clicking the link below

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1015

this source is far from a reputable scientific one.

also, maybe im a sceptic, but when your first post ever links to this site, i cant help but feel you have some vested interest in it.

GuanYin

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

1. Swine flu is normal flu - a mutation of the H1N1 virus

No, no it isn't. It bears characteristics of four known strains. It should be noted that H1N1 has many strains that vary slightly based on their reservoir

3. An international pharmacutical company filed a patent for the H1N1 strain in August 2008, almost a year before it was supposed to have existed. Oh - and they are also the main source of the vaccine. Hmmmm

OK, H1N1 isn't a strain, it's an influenza subtype. There are many strains of the H1N1 subtype. The patent isn't for the strain commonly referred to as Swine flu.

4. The government and big pharma companies have been granted total legal immunity from any lawsuits deriving from injury or death from the vaccination.

By who? Source this please.

5. The fast-track program to rush vaccines onto the market in time for the Autumn flu season is being done without even normal safety testing.

Incorrect, the vaccine isn't viewed as a new drug by the FDA so doesn't require the same testing as a vaccine developed from concept. All required FDA safety testing will be in effect though.

6. Injecting the entire population with a rushed vaccine which effects the immune system is far more dangerous than getting the normal flu or the weak swine flu.

Assuming you are correct. Please explain to us why. What evidence do you draw this conclusion from? What studies?

Where is the evidence that this is a reality in any case?

7. Part IV of Irish Health Act states that the government has the power to forcefully vaccinate anyone who does not comply with the mass vaccination

I just read the 1953 and 1970 Irish Health acts and saw no suggestion of this. Almost the opposite if I read it correctly.

Turtwig

peoplebeautiful wrote: »

please do some research before injecting yourself with a vaccine that has been rushed through the safety stages. I have done some research and this is what I've come up with:

1. Swine flu is normal flu - a mutation of the H1N1 virus of the sort that often occurs. Flu makes you feel ill. You should take medicine and rest. You will then get well again, unless you are very unlucky or have some complicating condition. It is best to avoid close contact with other people, as applies to a common cold.
Nope it's not like normal flu, as nobody has natural immunity to it, as Vorsprung already said (beat me;)
2. The mortality rate is significantly lower than that of normal flu and most victims suffer only a mild illness.
The mortality rate may be lower, but look at the demographics, young (and in some cases healthy) adults/children are dying from it, normal flu affects the elderly by majority, and I don't mean to sound insensitive but most of them were probably dying anyways and it was the flu that delivered the final blow.
3. An international pharmacutical company filed a patent for the H1N1 strain in August 2008, almost a year before it was supposed to have existed. Oh - and they are also the main source of the vaccine. Hmmmm
Companies file patents ALL the time...and are you sure the strains are the same as H1N1 is around with a while now....vaccinations againts swine flu is not new, in fact it's been going on with years, and seeing as you're coming across as a bit of a conspiracy buff I shall stop there...

4. The government and big pharma companies have been granted total legal immunity from any lawsuits deriving from injury or death from the vaccination.
5. The fast-track program to rush vaccines onto the market in time for the Autumn flu season is being done without even normal safety testing.
6. Injecting the entire population with a rushed vaccine which effects the immune system is far more dangerous than getting the normal flu or the weak swine flu.
How? TO1 here is involved in the testing of the vaccine (or did I misread that?) so I'm sure if s/he bothers they'll explain that the standard safeguards are being used, in fact (if again, I read correctly) the fact that the vaccine is so slow* is because certain parts of it have yet to be approved.



7. Part IV of Irish Health Act states that the government has the power to forcefully vaccinate anyone who does not comply with the mass vaccination
Well honestly, imo, it's mass vaccination or nothing.
Don't take my word for it - please research it yourself. you can start by clicking the link below

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1015

My message was too short initially apparently writing in a quote is not counted :rolleyes: Typing the same thing again is fun,fun fun:rolleyes:

Edit: Guan beat me

Red Sleeping Beauty

Does anyone know how much Tamiflu is in Dublin and is it covered by the medical card ? Is there any protection from there being an additional charge added on to it come budget time ?

suspectpackage

From the guardian

More than half of children taking the swine flu drug Tamiflu experience side-effects such as nausea and nightmares, research suggests.

An estimated 150,000 people with flu symptoms were prescribed the drug through a new hotline and website last week, according to figures revealed yesterday.

Studies of children attending three schools in London and one in the South West showed that 51-53 per cent had one or more side-effects from the medication, which is offered to everyone in England with swine flu symptoms.

The research by the Health Protection Agency emerged as Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer for England, said that swine flu infections “may have reached a plateau”.

Releasing the latest figures, Sir Liam said that an estimated 110,000 new cases of the H1N1 virus were diagnosed by doctors in the week to Sunday. That did not include those using the new National Pandemic Flu Service for England to obtain antiviral drugs without seeing their GP.

Sir Liam said that the deaths of 27 people in England were confirmed to have been linked to swine flu, compared with 26 last week. As of Wednesday morning 793 people were in hospital in England with the virus, and 81 were in intensive care.

Yesterday Natasha Newman, 16, of Highgate, North London, was seriously ill in hospital in Athens after contracting swine flu while on holiday on the island of Cephalonia. Her parents, Julian Newman and Nikki Boughton, were at her bedside at the Agia Sofia children’s hospital, said a spokeswoman for Mr Newman’s business, J. Newman Textiles. “This is a very distressing and worrying time,” she said.

Peter Holden, the British Medical Association’s lead expert on swine flu, suggested that Tamiflu was being overused and did not need to be offered to everyone with mild symptoms. “The National Pandemic Flu Service has been a great success, and was needed to take the pressure off GPs,” he said. “But the threshold for getting Tamiflu should be quite high.

“For patients who are not in the high-risk groups — such as pregnant women, people with bad asthma or with suppressed immune systems — this virus typically causes mild symptoms and does not require a course of Tamiflu. Patients in the at-risk groups should be referred to their GP, who will use their clinical judgment.”

A total of 103 children took part in the London study, of which 85 were given the drug as a precaution after a classmate received a diagnosis of swine flu. Of those, 45 experienced one or more side-effects. The most common was nausea (29 per cent), followed by stomach pain or cramps (20 per cent) and problems sleeping (12 per cent). Almost one in five had a “neuropsychiatric side-effect”, such as inability to think clearly, nightmares and “behaving strangely”, according to the research, published in Eurosurveillance, a journal of disease.

The study was carried out in April and May when the drug was being issued as a preventive measure. The findings were echoed by a study of children at a school in the South West where a pupil had caught the disease in Mexico.

Health officials in Japan have recommended against prescribing Tamiflu to teenagers over fears it causes a rise in “neuropsychiatric events”. The researchers said that clinical trials had shown that about 20 per cent of adults reported side-effects of either nausea or vomiting after taking Tamiflu.

Both the Department of Health and the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory products Agency said that the drug was safe, and that the benefits of treating early symptoms and avoiding potentially serious complications could outweigh the risks of side-effects.

Sir Liam said that despite a 10 per cent rise in the estimated number of cases in the week to Sunday, the latest figures reinforced “a growing impression we have had a peak”. He said that a surge would still be expected in the winter flu season, but added: “I think we are a little more confident we may be seeing a downturn in this flu.”

Scale of the outbreak
— 110,000 new swine flu cases in England last week, based on data from GPs
— 150,000 people obtaining Tamiflu without seeing a GP since last Thursday
— 51% to 53% proportion of children reporting side-effects from taking Tamiflu
— 1 in 158 people in England have contacted their GP with flu-like symptoms since outbreaks began. The rate is 1 in 77 for children aged 1 to 4
Source: Department of Health

suspectpackage

Fears Grow Of Tamiflu Side Effects On Kids

1:15pm UK, Friday July 31, 2009
Lulu Sinclair, Sky News Online

More than half of children taking Tamiflu suffer side effects such as nausea, insomnia and nightmares, according to new research.

Some 150,000 Tamiflu packs were given out last weekend

Two studies from experts at the Health Protection Agency (HPA) showed a "high proportion" of British schoolchildren reporting problems after taking the anti-viral drug.

Data was gathered from children at three schools in London and one in the South West.

They had all been given Tamiflu earlier this year after classmates became infected with swine flu.

The researchers behind one study said that, although children may have attributed symptoms that were due to other illnesses to the use of Tamiflu, "this is unlikely to account for all the symptoms experienced".

One mother in particular is convinced that Tamiflu was behind strange effects on her child.

Fiona Ross' daughter, Anna, 16, was given Tamiflu when a number of pupils at her school were diagnosed with swine flu.

"She had 10 days' supply on the Thursday and was taking it during her GCSEs," Mrs Ross explains.

"She seemed fine up until the Wednesday, after her last exam when she started to feel very tired.

"She slept for 14 hours and then woke up, stayed up for half-an-hour and then went back to bed and slept for several more hours."

Anna complained of feeling "totally spaced out", hardly able to keep awake and - even when she was awake - could barely communicate which, her mother says, was not like her at all.

"I took her to the doctor who suggested it might be the after effects of the exams and told me to keep an eye on her," she explained.

But instead of the quick recovery expected, Anna became even worse

"She went to a party a day before her course of treatment ended," her mother said, "and that's when things really became really scary.

"Her behaviour was totally out of character. It was as though all her inhibitions had gone.

"She was confused, became obsessive and did things she'd never done before.

"When we went to the doctor she started speaking French because she was obsessing about Pret a Manger sandwiches," her mother recalls. "She'd never done that before.

"She also started texting friends, saying she couldn't see them and five minutes later she'd be texting them again saying how she was looking forward to meeting up with them.

"You can't imagine the strange phone calls we had to deal with."
And then there was a change in appetite.

"She was hungry all the time," Mrs Ross said. "She'd eat until she couldn't eat any more and then half an hour again she'd be hungry again."

At first the family thought it might be that having a drink at the party had had an adverse effect with the Tamiflu but the symptoms persisted.

Then they wondered if she had had her drink spiked because no-one could work out what was wrong.

Her mother took her back to the doctor who said any trace of the drug would have been flushed out within two days and ruled that out.

So they were none the wiser, with Anna's out-of-character behaviour continuing to be irrational.

"We had to keep an eye on her all the time as she couldn't concentrate all.
"She started swearing - which she'd not done before - as though it were quite natural. And she totally switched off if I asked her to do something she didn't feel like doing.

"One of her funnier suggestions was suggesting to her grandmother that they play tennis together - her grandmother is 84!"

Three weeks later and Anna is back to her normal charming self and just wants to put the whole thing behind her.

Her mother says they can laugh now but it was a very alarming experience.

"We've since learned that one of the teachers at the school also had some very strange experiences while taking the drug," she said.

"Some of the other pupils were sick too and couldn't complete the course.
"Nobody has actually said it was the treatment, but I’m convinced it was.

It was dreadful and, at the time, very frightening."

Red Sleeping Beauty

Interesting point there about Tamiflu being overused.

suspectpackage

COUNTRIES NEED to assess carefully the risks and benefits of the rapid approval of a human swine flu vaccine to avoid the repeat of past problems with mass-vaccination, medical journal The Lancet has said.

The publication said the fast- tracking of vaccines could lead to a repeat of the problems surrounding a 1976 H1N1 vaccination programme in the United States.

Three elderly people died on the day the vaccine was introduced in October 1976, causing panic and the eventual abandonment of the vaccine programme. The Lancet said the vaccine might be licensed without the usual safety and efficacy data requirements and all monitoring will have to be done after the vaccine has been administered.

It also pointed out that the disease has so far been mild with most patients making a full recovery and therefore there should be strong post-marketing surveillance in place before the rolling out of a vaccine.
The vaccines, which are still being developed, are likely to be available in Ireland by October and everybody will be in a position to get them.

The chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan said they would not be recommending the vaccine to any group unless the balance of risk is in favour of them being vaccinated. Six of the seven foreign students staying on the UCD campus who are suspected of having human swine flu have been released from quarantine.

The other student is being assessed by a GP and has been prescribed paracetamol rather than tamiflu which is usually only given to those who have contracted swine flu. Ten students, who are from Italy and Spain, were also monitored by GPs. They have all been cleared while another student who presented yesterday with flu-like symptoms is being assessed. A spokesman for UCD said the university, the biggest in the country, has a comprehensive plan to prepare for the potential threat which will occur when students and staff return to the college in September.

tallaght01

Can I jut point out that I'm involved in testing the vaccine in kids, and all the normal safety checks are being carried out.

Suspectpackage. Why don't you discuss some of those points rather than posting up random opinion pieces. 3 huge posts without any comment on one page is a bit much for the eyes.

suspectpackage

I just want people to be AWARE of the dangers of the vaccination and I think that everyone should read those links. They speak for themselves imo.

DrIndy

suspectpackage wrote: »

I just want people to be AWARE of the dangers of the vaccination and I think that everyone should read those links. They speak for themselves imo.

i appreciate your viewpoint - but you need to also promote the pros and cons on a scientific forum regarding this.

Rather than simply posting articles, back them up with solid argument and discussion points

tallaght01

suspectpackage. It's a science forum. There's a conspiracy theories and after hours forum if you want. But sky news is NOT science! Next time you talk about the "dangers of vaccination" you'll have to produce some evidence or your posts will just get deleted.

suspectpackage

tallaght01 wrote: »

suspectpackage. It's a science forum. There's a conspiracy theories and after hours forum if you want. But sky news is NOT science! Next time you talk about the "dangers of vaccination" you'll have to produce some evidence or your posts will just get deleted.

I don't see how it's a conspiracy when everything I posted is 100% factual.

sam34

suspectpackage:

this is a science forum.

sources such as the guardian and sky news are not scientific - they are (at best) sensationalist journalism, aimed at creating eye-catching headlines and getting sales/viewers.

if you want to post up a scientific paper and discuss it - that's fine.

copying and pasting newspaper articles, is not fine.

any more like this will be deleted without discussion.

Supercell

Ok, heres a question thats bothering me. i've tried googling the answer and cannot find anything.

I'm heading to China on Wednesday and on landing they take everyones temperature by some gadget that points at the forehead apparently.

Heres the thing, I slipped in the kichen a couple of days ago and ended up with a bruise on my forehead thats surely going to turn all the colours of the rainbow over the next couple of weeks!
I'm fine, its just a bruise, but am concerned that the healing process will heat up the area causing a false elevated temperature reading to happen. In the west i could explain this to the person doing it, but in China rules are rules, if my forehead has an elevated temperature, i'm going into Quarantine

So long story short, do bruises have elevated skin temperatures?

tallaght01

i can't guarantee anything, but i wouldn't be worried about that if i were you.

C.Rizzle

.

The_Conductor

Who is expecting this- and on what basis are they making their assumptions? This seems to be totally hysterical and without any basis in hard science? Do you have any source for this?

The_Conductor

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Does anyone know how much Tamiflu is in Dublin and is it covered by the medical card ? Is there any protection from there being an additional charge added on to it come budget time ?

Its not automatically prescribed unless the patient is considered to be in an at risk group. Re: medical card- if you are prescribed it- it would be covered like any prescription (there are proposals to set up a scheme similar to the NHS diagnosis line- or possibly a voucher type scheme, which might be fulfilled in designated facilities (which presumably would include pharmacies), but no details as yet).

At present proposals are for a minimal EUR5 charge to be levied on all prescriptions dispensed under the medical card scheme (I assume Tamiflu would be considered under this) in the budget. The proposals are to up the DPS contribution for chronically ill to EUR140 from 100 at present- and for a EUR5 per prescription for the LTI scheme (similar to the proposed EUR5 charge for medical card dispensing).